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View Full Version : Could you do this with LW?



Speedmonk42
02-15-2008, 08:23 PM
I am sure you can, I have never played with Dynamics.

I am curious how long it might take to render.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG5qDeWHNmk

Speedmonk42
02-15-2008, 08:33 PM
Why can't we edit out posts.

I wanted to ad some more detail.

This is a demo of 3000 barrels in crysis using the physics engine.

Ztreem
02-16-2008, 04:52 AM
Not really, You could do something similar but it would take forever to calculate and it would not look as good. LW dynamics is just so behind, if you've seen what Ageia PhysX can do in realtime, nothing else doesn't really compare. LW dynamics is good for simple things and things you can hide with smart filmclips and effects. To do simulations or something that is very realistic you will have a hard time with LW, it's possible but not as fun and easy as you would like it to be.

Phil
02-16-2008, 10:28 AM
If you can drop the cash on it, perhaps the Impact 3 engine would do a good job. Until Dynamic Realities puts out UB versions of their plugins, though, I cannot really say one way or the other...

Ztreem
02-16-2008, 10:40 AM
Impact3 is old and isn't much better than the HardFX we have in LW. LW needs a more modern dynamics engine to do things like game engines do today in realtime, this just shows how much behind Lw really is.

iconoclasty
02-16-2008, 12:02 PM
Come on guys, you know you can't compare game engines with full 3d programs. There's a completely different set of rules.

Ztreem
02-16-2008, 12:29 PM
Look at Ageia PhysX dynamics engine (used in several games) and mention any 3D app that do better dynamics(rigidbody) than that. Even XSI use this engine for their rigid body dynamics. It's just an amazing engine and LW doesn't stand a chance.

hrgiger
02-16-2008, 01:13 PM
As Dr. Evil says... "How about nooooo".

Mipmap
02-16-2008, 01:59 PM
As far as I know it is not a game engine, but a standalone physics engine with an SDK that allows them to program their game to take advantage of it. I honestly see no reason why a 3D package couldn't take advantage of it in a similar way to record the result frame by frame into animation keys, only it wouldn't take an obscene amount of time per frame.

Speedmonk42
02-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Sorry, I wasn't intending to start a debate.

I have not used dynamics yet, so I had no idea.

I wasn't expecting it to do it in real time or anything, I realize they are very different beasts.

It just looks like a lot of fun.

RedBull
02-16-2008, 05:23 PM
As far as I know it is not a game engine, but a standalone physics engine with an SDK that allows them to program their game to take advantage of it. I honestly see no reason why a 3D package couldn't take advantage of it in a similar way to record the result frame by frame into animation keys, only it wouldn't take an obscene amount of time per frame.

I tried yesterday to see if i could export the same barrel object out of Sandbox2, to use in LW, but alas DXRipper would not work in Vista x64, and many objects from Crytek can not be exported from Sandbox itself..

I did a little test with both LW and ODEFL, i can say that there are a few ways i could get it done, ODEFL worked really well, but at around 300 clones, OFEFL crashes LW9.31... for myself.... But it's quite interactive at a few hundred objects. I could maybe try some FXLink tricks and some other ideas, but overall i too believe LW's dynamics (rigid bodies) are quite poor these days. And it simply would be an aggravating experience to get 3000 barrels to behave like the CryTek engine in LW. (Especially not real-time)

CryTek and most other game engines are well in front with their realtime dynamics than we are with our supposedly more advanced and accurate ones... :) I think this trend will continue and realtime algorithms, innovations and technology will exceed the development of non-realtime, more accurate shaders, GI and will be overtaken by gaming/real-time interactive versions.

I actually wonder how much time we have before EngineEditors like Sandbox, become a much bigger part of our 3D arsenal.

Nvidia have recently bought Ageia and will add PhysX to all 8xxx series cards. In a future driver update. (LW already has CUDA enhanced LiquidPack Ageia plugin) XSI also has PhysX or ODE and both are quite fast with just software. Intel bough Havok some time back, so things are getting interesting in these areas.

Stooch
02-16-2008, 05:48 PM
that demo wasnt done in real time. but yes lw hardbodies are a joke compared to ANYTHING on the market. nt REEEAAALY needs to step on on this one.

Speedmonk42
02-16-2008, 07:02 PM
I would buy a quad core just to sit there and have it calculate for six months a city shaking itself to pieces just for fun.

Dodgy
02-16-2008, 07:38 PM
Well NT do have people with experience in this area now, so hopefully we'll see something soon, possibly when they show the new character tools, though i expect after, since they'll need reworking after I'm guessing.

Stooch
02-16-2008, 10:07 PM
well lets start with a multithreaded solver. that would be a step in the right direction. although if i had it my way, i would just integrate ageia. :)

eagleeyed
02-16-2008, 10:18 PM
Well there is that news article, I will post it if I find it again where now that Nvidia has aquired Ageia, they will be releasing a software patch in the upcoming weeks that makes all Geforce 8 Series instantly work like a Ageia Physics Card, apparently all the Geforce 8 Series cards already have the power to do it, they just need the software now.

So I must say I am eagerly waiting for that, already owning a 8600 :D

Will look for the article I read that off soon.

Ztreem
02-17-2008, 03:03 AM
although if i had it my way, i would just integrate ageia. :)

:agree:

-EsHrA-
02-17-2008, 11:27 AM
those physics are great, even motion picture worhty.

ours are....ehm... :(

yes, wouldnt mind a look at that nvida ageia 8800 article since i have one :)


mlon

Wickster
02-17-2008, 12:34 PM
DStorm was able to use the Ageia Physx engine with its Liquid Pack plugin for LW. It can even use dedicated Ageia Physx cards to help with the calculations. If they could put that technology on to HardFX then LW could probably do it.

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/plugins/liquidPack/

Cageman
02-17-2008, 12:54 PM
The No1 problem with LWs HBD is that either the pieces doesn't rest at a logical angle or they don't stop at all. The No2 problem is collision. With some tweaks, I can get a decent, realistic looking behavior. My No1 point is the biggest culprit. However, if you want alot of stuff blown up and you don't need to see the peices landing, it's as good as anything else out there. Never, EVER believe that a single collision object or wind effector can blow your pieces in a controlled manner. It doesn't do that in other packages either. The "hero" pieces that I've simulated just recently were all in their own simulation group with their own collision object; basicly about 14 pieces with their own settings and collision object (the one pushing the objects away). Breaking things down like this makes life alot easier and I'm surprised I could get it as far as I did, based on some horrific storries about LWs HBD implementation.

Does this mean I don't see problems with LWs HBD? No way... I think there are TONS of things that could be improved, but by breaking things down and take each piece on it's own can create some really good looking stuff.

Cageman
02-17-2008, 12:56 PM
well lets start with a multithreaded solver. that would be a step in the right direction. although if i had it my way, i would just integrate ageia. :)

Oh yes! That would be sweet! Would love to have that kind of power in LW. But, depending on what you want to do (in my case, make a vehicle explode) LWs HBD works pretty good. More advanced stuff... well... ODE for LW works better, but is limited to primitives only. :/

Stooch
02-17-2008, 01:00 PM
i want to disintegrate something into atoms :) or as close to atoms as possible.

Cageman
02-17-2008, 01:09 PM
i want to disintegrate something into atoms :) or as close to atoms as possible.

Haha! :) That would be neat... but yes... lets hope NT see this thread.. maybe Ino can take what he has done for particles and make a HBD version of it? Or, the guy behind ODE port to LW can get some funds (maybe) and continue developement. The little I tried it, having a bunch of box primitives on top of eachother and than hit it with a collision object worked waaay better than LWs HBD.