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COBRASoft
02-10-2008, 04:45 AM
Hey all,

I'm wondering what Newtek is doing right now. During the 9.2 and 9.3 cycle, we were informed regurarly about the development proces and we were 'involved' during the beta stages, which was amazing. Now, after 9.3, we haven't heared from them anymore (except Proton's amazing videos).

I see multiple threads here asking for different kind of features for LW 9.x or even LW 10. About what should be implemented and even when. This is all nice 'dreaming', but as long as Newtek doesn't inform us in any way, we have totally no clue what to expect. They could at least give us a priority report and not something like 'in the 9.x we will try to improve...', this is too blurry and too much guessing. Damn Microsoft gave us a future report in 2002 about .Net and it went all the way till 2010 (and they are still on schedule)! I'm a software developer myself and I know very well that informing your customers about the progress of features is very important, even if it is 'bad' news like delays.

So please Newtek, release us from this 'unknown' preasure and give us some light in the future. You don't even have to put a date on it, just what will come in what version and where you currently are.

Greetings,
Sigurd

AbnRanger
02-10-2008, 05:11 AM
They decided to use Autodesk's M.O. (which is to remain completely silent about their future plans until they are ready to release something)...probably due to the difficulty they've had in bringing modeling functionality into Layout.

They may not even know yet what paradigm they are going to go with (ie, keeping Modeler and Layout separate, with much of modeler's core added to Layout, or going with full integration)...so I can see why they haven't spilled the beans. Silence is good for them, but not so with the customer.

Kuzey
02-10-2008, 05:29 AM
If I were to guess, I would say 9.4 is an internal beta only....to iron out some bugs and try new things etc.

Kuzey

vadermanchild
02-10-2008, 05:34 AM
Ive always thought Newtek were far too tight lipped about real meaty info.

Most people who voiced this POV received serious flak for doing so.

Perhaps a lack of BETA will mean some previously satisfied voices become less forgiving with Newtek. A dribble of info will suddenly not feel enough with no BETA to bug test keeping them distracted.

Newtek need a big kick up the arse to have a chance of keeping LW up with the competiotion who have left LW waaaaaaaaay behind.

Cageman
02-10-2008, 06:31 AM
Perhaps a lack of BETA will mean some previously satisfied voices become less forgiving with Newtek. A dribble of info will suddenly not feel enough with no BETA to bug test keeping them distracted.

I'm very satisfied with where LW9.3.1 is looking back at LW8.5 AND looking at Maya. Certain things I do right now are, well... problematic in Maya. :)

hrgiger
02-10-2008, 06:33 AM
Most people who voiced this POV received serious flak for doing so.



I've never noticed anyone receiving "flak" for voicing their desire to hear news about update info. Not from Newtek anyway. Unless of course they were being real A-holes about it, in which case they're the ones who deserved the swift kick up the arse.

And I have to disagree about Newtek being waaaaaaaaay behind. During the LW 8.x cycle, I would say that we were waaaaaaaaay behind. Now we're only way behind. With a few important changes to LW and it's architecture, I think they could bridge that gap. But for right now, nobody knows anything. At least not the ones that are doing all the talking.

Matt
02-10-2008, 07:10 AM
When they go quiet it's usually because they are very busy, which means cool features are on the way!

:)

cresshead
02-10-2008, 01:31 PM
When they go quiet it's usually because they are very busy, which means cool features are on the way!

:)

or they are struggling to get the cool features out of alpha and ready for us for the beta

:D

COBRASoft
02-10-2008, 01:48 PM
Hey,

Well, these are all nice comments, but again, they need a plan. It is almost impossible that they haven't decided yet to go for 1 app or for the seperated approach. Actually, listening to the user base, they should program in the direction to keep both options possible and let it just be another checkbox in the general options. This should be fairly 'easy' for them to do.

If I'm planning a new release, I also have to know what will be in the version after it and what direction I'll have to go even after that. This is the way programming has evolved nowadays and it is the only way to keep software that important 1 step ahead of the competition. Ok, Lightwave 9.3 is 1000% better than 8.5, but it still has serious steps behind (Fur, grass, instancing, fast glass (yes, again, sorry), animation, lights (IES, faster shadows), working caustics, ...). As I see it, they are trying to keep their head above the waterfor the moment. But to do this, they need kicking *** features. And it are these features that either keeps customers or looses them. The lack of knowing when to expect these features is a major drawback.

So I would say, com'on Newtek, give us a look in your agenda and give us a step by step overview. I'm sure, you won't regret it.

Greetings,
Sigurd

UnCommonGrafx
02-10-2008, 02:58 PM
Ya know,
I'm one of the people that's more than willing to kick them in the teeth when they're down but being loose with their intentions is one I'm about ready to give them Kudos for. Having seen some of their (and others) marketing attempts prior to release I see no reason for them to pull that trigger on whatever feet they have left.

If you are a diehard, like myself, then you've been around to see some of the problems they've had with your plan, both on the LW side as well as the Video side. I, for one, don't want them to hype to us anything; I want them to show us the goods of their labors. The words I really want from them are explanations of their software they've paid for, by professionals. The LW side is lucky with William; there is no equivalent on the Video side of NewTek.

All that to say to NewTek, as per this thread: Keep your mouth shut until more of the puzzle is to be released/realized cuz I don't want the hype.
I think they've made it clear that they won't hype something before it's ready because it's come back to bite them. Jay has given a roadMap; if you really want one, go find his writings.

AbnRanger
02-10-2008, 04:43 PM
or they are struggling to get the cool features out of alpha and ready for us for the beta

:DOr still working on the Kappa and Sigma (AO) :D

COBRASoft
02-10-2008, 05:36 PM
UnCommonGrafx: I've read the writings from Jay very carefully, believe me! What happened in the past, is the past or we can start a MODO vs LW thread over again aswell :) No, my intention of this thread is actually to minimize all the threads about asuming what will be in the following releases or what should be in it because Jay told us what would be in it, right?

But Newtek could give us some kind of status report like 'we are on the animation for the moment or we are going over the light system at this moment'. And not something like 'we will take a look at the animation system during the 9.x cycle'. You see, everybody would be informed what's going on NOW, without Newtek even have to give a tight time-schedule (because this is where it mostly goes wrong with software-development).


Please, I don't want nobody to understand me wrong on this. I love LightWave (since 1992 on Amiga). I have many dicussions with friends who work with Maya, Max and Modo trying to impress them what LW can do, because they are simply to arrogant (read stupid :tongue:) to believe that LW is actually capable of doing fabulous renders (e.g. the movie 300).

Castius
02-10-2008, 06:28 PM
I think the reports that Jay have given for the 9.x plan is still in effect. Given the continued reports from Jay on this forum has been plenty of information to support that. If more comes great but there doesn't need to be outcry's for any more.

Lewis
02-11-2008, 01:19 AM
And what would happen if NT "inform/report" us that they are working on SOME system at the moment ? That will stop this kind of questions?? Right ?? NO Way it will just be more of them with new questions and it never stops :) :D :D. If they are silent they must be working on something or they are all gone to long vacation :D.

I sure hope it's 1st one and I'm ready for Beta when they are :).

cagey5
02-11-2008, 02:32 AM
When they go quiet it's usually because they are very busy, which means cool features are on the way!

:)


Actually it's this time of year that Deuce, Chuck and Proton perform their annual 'Hair Bear Bunch Tribute Act', so development, news and tutorials all come to an abrupt halt. Why do you think Proton was in such a rush to finish the 24 hours of training? And you remember those photos of himself he recently posted with him wearing an afro style perm? Just getting everything in place for the tour.

Their motto is 'Nothing, but nothing stops the tour' so look out for them in a city near you and be prepared to wait a little longer for the next beta..

Matt
02-11-2008, 04:20 AM
Not sure if that was meant as a dig at the guys or not?

cagey5
02-11-2008, 04:41 AM
Nah.. Just a joke. But it may explain the delay, you never know.

COBRASoft
02-11-2008, 05:18 AM
Well, I hope you guys are right... I'm more than ready for a new beta!

rakker16mm
02-11-2008, 05:46 AM
I don't spend any time at all thinking about what Newtek might be thinking and why it is they aren't talking publicly about what they are working on. They are in the business of making Software. I am in the business of using it.

They will be in business as long as they keep making software that people want to buy.

starbase1
02-11-2008, 08:09 AM
Thing is I really think they can't win. If they don't tell us what is going on, they get flack. If they tell us where they want to go, it's treated as a promise, and if they don't get it out the door in 6 months, it's a treated as a failure.

-EsHrA-
02-11-2008, 09:12 AM
correct but they put themselves in this situation imo.

mlon

pooby
02-11-2008, 09:37 AM
By providing software?

-EsHrA-
02-11-2008, 10:39 AM
uhm, yes to a point :)
but i meant ofcoz the non informative attitude for years and the
well-know situation some time ago ;)...

mlon

beverins
02-11-2008, 10:43 AM
My old canard..

I think their Marketing needs an enormous amount of help. If they were to have more profiles and ads, and road shows showing off LIGHTWAVE (and LIGHTWAVE ONLY!!) then they would be able to diffuse the "so what's next" feelings.

I saw a bit of an improvement. An ad for Lightwave in CGW this month. I can scan it in and post it if anyone wants to see it. It's an OK ad, that trumpets the speed of LW over anything else. I think the layout is somewhat annoying and has an unwanted subliminal viewpoint in that the Car Tracks have broken out of the LW box and are zooming past the viewer (to reference the unbridled speed)... but the problem with this is that is has a side effect of looking like the unseen car object is running away from LW, breaking out of the box.

I think Newtek needs to work up more licensing cash and do what XSI did for their Assassin'c Creed ad, spotlighting the HumanIK plugin. Yeah, Fprime basically is why people are buying LW. So suck up to it, give Worley his due and shove it in people's face. The Ark - Siggraph award winner, rendered in Fprime. Pan's Labyrinth - rendered in Fprime. And who has Fprime, and a bajillion other plugins for FAST OUTPUT? Lightwave.

Or, if you want to be coy about it, and not mention Fprime.. then go ahead and mention The Ark, Pan's Labyrinth and other anime shows ANYWAY. If people want to complain about "truth in advertising" you aren't lying. Is Fprime on other platforms yet? Not for the moment, anyway. The animation on The Ark was done in XSI. How did he get that stuff to Lightwave? Point Oven. Baking and UV Mapping only goes so far between applications, so at some point he had to have used Lightwave's surfacing abilities too. He also had to have lit it there too and set the camera to some degree. So there's a very valid advertising right there... and I'm sure the makers of The Ark would love to be in an ad.

The guy working on Pan's Labyrinth had some rather unkind words for Lightwave, to be sure, saying that Fprime was the only reason he would even consider using it, but hey.... he USED it. That's all we need to know.

Is the BURNOUT series from EA still using Lightwave for its level design? Maybe time to spotlight that too, in an ad. Yeah, EA might ask for some nice money, but its nice money very well spent.

beverins
02-11-2008, 10:55 AM
As for Newtek's delay of information.. I have to agree with that Jay or Chuck should post something. Do you have to post about how you are programming a specific feature? Of course not. But as CobraSoft pointed out, "we're working on the animation side of things" or "we are working on 5 of our 9.x bullet point list additions! You guess which 5". Mention that you can't have any due dates yet, and that things look bright, the usual.

Every time either Jay or Chuck post their comments about how things are going everyone feels a lot better about things, I feel.

How about a Newtek State of the Union? Once or twice a year. Be honest in it. Say what you feel about the state of the market, and Lightwave's place in it. Upbeat corporate speak is always important, but I think also some reality peppered in among the "we rock!" text should be included. I mean, you have to acknowledge that Lightwave is taking a beating out there in the marketplace. Internet postings quickly exaggerate things, so set the record straight. How much of a beating is it taking? You don't have to show sales figures, just say "we do read everyone's complaints about Lightwave's abilities. Rest assured that we haven't given up. The video department hasn't fired everyone in the 3D department. We are going strong. Everyone here is pulling 80 hour workweeks, and I have to say I haven't been this excited by this software since I came on board here at Newtek" sort of thing. Upbeat but with some realism.

beverins
02-11-2008, 10:58 AM
Oh, and one more thing as I talk to myself here...

in Post Magazine of the past month they have an interesting comment on the last page as one of the reviewers posts a review of Maya 2008. What he said was quite fascinating.

He said that Autodesk has to begin to wake up and smell the coffee regarding Lightwave's turnkey rendering capability, especially with Fprime, if they are to compete in the marketplace.

I think you need to quote that in the next ad.

I can post a scan if anyone wants.

vadermanchild
02-11-2008, 11:01 AM
Thing is I really think they can't win. If they don't tell us what is going on, they get flack. If they tell us where they want to go, it's treated as a promise, and if they don't get it out the door in 6 months, it's a treated as a failure.

Thats it exactly -youve got it spot on - and THATS the way it should be.

vadermanchild
02-11-2008, 11:02 AM
Oh, and one more thing as I talk to myself here...


He said that Autodesk has to begin to wake up and smell the coffee regarding Lightwave's turnkey rendering capability, especially with Fprime, if they are to compete in the marketplace.

I think you need to quote that in the next ad.

I can post a scan if anyone wants.

would be nice if Fprime worked properly with the latest version of lw though before they go quoting anyone.

-EsHrA-
02-11-2008, 11:25 AM
just be open and honest, its not that hard.

mlon

Weetos
02-11-2008, 11:27 AM
I can post a scan if anyone wants.
I do ! Would be great to take look at this, if you don't mind

cresshead
02-11-2008, 11:33 AM
Oh, and one more thing as I talk to myself here...

in Post Magazine of the past month they have an interesting comment on the last page as one of the reviewers posts a review of Maya 2008. What he said was quite fascinating.

He said that Autodesk has to begin to wake up and smell the coffee regarding Lightwave's turnkey rendering capability, especially with Fprime, if they are to compete in the marketplace.

I think you need to quote that in the next ad.

I can post a scan if anyone wants.

well autodesk may not be drinking or smelling coffee just yet but their plugin makers are not on decaf that's for sure as there's already a beta version of rendition for 3dsmax with Fprime style nr real-time feedback for renders using mental ray.

pooby
02-11-2008, 11:36 AM
yep.. Unfortunately the uniqueness-of-Fprime marketing opportunity has slowly sailed past us.

beverins
02-11-2008, 02:13 PM
I do ! Would be great to take look at this, if you don't mind

Sure thing :-)

COBRASoft
02-11-2008, 02:40 PM
I think Newtek can tell us where they are the moment without burning their hands or destroying faith. Once again, I don't ask time-schedules, I just want to know where they are working at and what they're up to after that. This would make a lot of people assured they are indeed still going on with the overall improvements of LW 9.x like promised. This would also give some 'peace' on this forum and would make the future of LW brighter.

Allow me to give a little example: if people would really know they are working on animation for the moment (with proof of some screenshots or explanation of how they want to implement it, e.g. XSI or Maya alike, own genius system, ...). How many people would be enthousiastic and be assured of the future of LW? Well, we can test this very simple by looking to the responses to this thread. Don't forget, enthousiastic customers is a must have for any business. They keep the word spread and are the best AD a company can dream of.

RedBull
02-11-2008, 03:20 PM
yep.. Unfortunately the uniqueness-of-Fprime marketing opportunity has slowly sailed past us.

Yeah it's lame, Newtek could of gained so many sales by really promoting FPrime, and working very closely with Worley, but decided to stuff it up royally.. It was the only thing to make LW exciting in the last 5 years, and now the competition is moving forward.... Oh well at least Newtek have ummm, errrrr, Viper! Opportunity Lost!

Thankfully it's consumers who will soon have a wealth of renderers and previewers, and LW has very little support for any of them. :(
Oh Look: Companies like SideFX actually even have a link on their website, promoting the renderers and companion products...
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=167&Itemid=307

AbnRanger
02-11-2008, 09:15 PM
well autodesk may not be drinking or smelling coffee just yet but their plugin makers are not on decaf that's for sure as there's already a beta version of rendition for 3dsmax with Fprime style nr real-time feedback for renders using mental ray.You mean the beta for the IPR is available? I knew it was for Maya, but I thought they had just started working on porting it to Max.

Stooch
02-11-2008, 09:29 PM
Please, I don't want nobody to understand me wrong on this.

FAIL.

try again.

Stooch
02-11-2008, 09:32 PM
I think Newtek can tell us where they are the moment without burning their hands or destroying faith. Once again, I don't ask time-schedules, I just want to know where they are working at and what they're up to after that. This would make a lot of people assured they are indeed still going on with the overall improvements of LW 9.x like promised. This would also give some 'peace' on this forum and would make the future of LW brighter.

are you ******* kidding me? seriously? what do you think they are doing? having a merry circle jerk? these guys get up in the morning, put their pants on one leg at a time and go to work. and code lightwave. you do realize this right? this is starting to get retardedly annoying. The changes in 9.3 are amazing - if you dont realize this then you arent using the software hard enough. what you are doing here is wasting everyones time. ESPECIALLY the guys that are actually working on the software.

Vujaka
02-11-2008, 09:59 PM
:oye: I am sensing a lot of anger there. :hammer:

meatycheesyboy
02-11-2008, 10:04 PM
I'm not sure I understand these types of posts...

Do people sit on AV forums and badger Samsung reps about the features of their next television set? Is it common for companies to divulge what they're doing once a week, like some people here seem to expect from Newtek?

Newtek is a privately held company and is beholden to no one but themselves. If they were public and we were majority stakeholders then we'd have a right to some info but as is, we deserve nothing more than what we directly pay for.

I don't mean to sound harsh but like I said, I don't get it.

Stooch
02-11-2008, 10:20 PM
:oye: I am sensing a lot of anger there. :hammer:

not quite anger. but yes thats what happens when I sense a lack of logic.

its just amazing that the guy is speaking for everyone "its going to be alot more peace around here" from who? the few naggers that want instant gratification? I have an idea, how about not starting threads like these. that would be pretty peaceful.

AbnRanger
02-11-2008, 11:19 PM
well autodesk may not be drinking or smelling coffee just yet but their plugin makers are not on decaf that's for sure as there's already a beta version of rendition for 3dsmax with Fprime style nr real-time feedback for renders using mental ray.And is supposed to render up to 10 faster than MR, using MR shaders and lights no less...sweet:boogiedow

COBRASoft
02-12-2008, 03:26 AM
Stooch: Sorry to make you so angry, but you have to understand why people like me are upset by the lack of descent info. If you read this thread carefully, you'll see yourself that some people disagree with me and some people agree. This means that I must have some sense, no?

I don't know what the programmers of LW are doing for the moment. I guess they are programming very hard, but on what?

And about FPrime, I think nobody understands why this hasn't become a built-in tool in LW for some years now and why it hasn't been adapted yet to 9.3.1 (Volume Stacking, enhanced materials, ...). An explanation of Newtek would be welcome, again...

hrgiger
02-12-2008, 04:02 AM
Yes, that has always been a concern of mine Neverko. Fprime has a been a wonderful tool in Lightwave and has been a real boon to us Lightwave users. But is it going to really keep up with all the changes that the render engine may require to go through as new techniques emerge? After all this time, Fprime is still limited and will not preview volumetrics, won't render filters or shaders, and even won't render some of the newer nodes. I guess I'm wondering if Fprime is going to continue to be useful for much longer excpet as a "general" previewer and even then, in what capacity, I don't know.

COBRASoft
02-12-2008, 04:04 AM
Neverko: you're totally rightabout that. But then again, I talked about a BUILT-IN TOOL, not a plug-in. VIPER is not good enough.

AbnRanger
02-12-2008, 04:59 AM
Yes, that has always been a concern of mine Neverko. Fprime has a been a wonderful tool in Lightwave and has been a real boon to us Lightwave users. But is it going to really keep up with all the changes that the render engine may require to go through as new techniques emerge? After all this time, Fprime is still limited and will not preview volumetrics, won't render filters or shaders, and even won't render some of the newer nodes. I guess I'm wondering if Fprime is going to continue to be useful for much longer excpet as a "general" previewer and even then, in what capacity, I don't know.Now that an FPrime clone (Holomatix Rendition) is available for Maya and Max, LW is sure to lose a good deal of luster it had in FPrime. Especially when you consider that it already renders volumetric particles and Hair rendering is currently under development:
http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/features/
http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/performance_benchmarks/
http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/about/

Newtek had better come out swinging in the next full release, or things won't be looking so good

Lewis
02-12-2008, 05:11 AM
Yep Rendition IPR for Maya is pretty much matched what we had in FPRIME/LW exclusively for past years so now we need to wait for Mr. Worley to make something unique (AGAIN) :) :).

stone
02-12-2008, 05:26 AM
So I would say, com'on Newtek, give us a look in your agenda and give us a step by step overview. I'm sure, you won't regret it.

history says otherwise.
each and every time they reveal their plan in advance the users give them every reason to regret it. then its not on time, then its not good enough. then its not exactly what the user was expecting or the users mis-interpreting it to be something else, ect.

newtek is one of the few companies actually bothering to communicate with its user base in this fashion, and it gets back to bite them every time.

/stone

theo
02-12-2008, 07:00 AM
My ideal for this software is to see it evolve to such a mature stage the development team can reasonably project general visions of the future on a LW blog without fear of being trapped in the uncertain realities that burden the present environment.

OOZZEE
02-12-2008, 12:05 PM
how 'bout that lathe tool ..... oops sorry wrong thread !!

Ztreem
02-12-2008, 12:30 PM
Rendition also supports final gather witch Fprime does not, I must say that I'm tempted to learn Maya now. Maya supports NURBS, have good CA tools and a lot of plugins and now a realtime renderer like Fprime but better. I really hope that NT have some aces up their sleeves.

Stooch
02-12-2008, 01:27 PM
Stooch: Sorry to make you so angry, but you have to understand why people like me are upset by the lack of descent info. If you read this thread carefully, you'll see yourself that some people disagree with me and some people agree. This means that I must have some sense, no?

I don't know what the programmers of LW are doing for the moment. I guess they are programming very hard, but on what?

And about FPrime, I think nobody understands why this hasn't become a built-in tool in LW for some years now and why it hasn't been adapted yet to 9.3.1 (Volume Stacking, enhanced materials, ...). An explanation of Newtek would be welcome, again...

not angry im annoyed that you assume that they are doing anything BUT programming lw. you are implying that newtek is lying to us all while sitting around and sipping on jin and juice. If you are making this ridiculous assumption then whats the difference WHAT they tell you? IF they are lying to us all like you are implying, why would it make any difference if they came on the forums and said, "we are working on it". it wouldnt.

but overall its a ridiculous sentiment. OBVIOUSLY they are working on it. just like you do, 9-5 (i bet they re working overtime). I bet that they are working on lots of things at the same time. And honestly id rather have them spending all that time coding instead of appeasing people like you. i feel that vast majority of professionals using LW (the ONLY ones that newtek should care about) are too busy working on real projects instead of sitting on their thumbs and bitching about being ignorant of the internal activities of newtek. Is something stopping you from making projects and making money? Send a bug report.

otherwise sit back and wait like the rest of us.

Steamthrower
02-12-2008, 01:28 PM
while sitting around and sipping jin and juice

Was that an intentional misspelling? :D

Stooch
02-12-2008, 01:30 PM
lol i type faster than my brain processes grammar. hence my never ending hatred of the stupid time limit for editing :)

Steamthrower
02-12-2008, 01:32 PM
Naw, I wasn't criticising your spelling, just pointing out that jin has a double meaning around here.

Lewis
02-12-2008, 01:33 PM
No, no Stooch that's the reason why we have 5 minute edit limit, so that we can laugh at our own spelling and typos, it wouldn't be fun if we could edit later :D :D :D.

Wonderpup
02-12-2008, 01:48 PM
each and every time they reveal their plan in advance the users give them every reason to regret it.

This is true but ignores the fact that, in reality, the only time NT release any serious information on their future plans is when they are preselling the latest full release- and in that context these revelations take on the character of a tacit commitment to deliver.

I completely understand why they do this- it's called marketing. But to then turn around and act the innocent victim when people are unhappy that the promised features did not materialise is a bit rich.

Yes, in theory, the previewed features of 9x were speculative, but the entire style of their presentation during the presell period did not reflect this fact- the style and tone implied a degree of certainty that, in retrospect, was ill founded.

And to be fair to NT they have acknowleged this- but really, you can't hold the users responsible if they were, in effect, misled by NT into having unrealistic expecations of what 9x could be.

COBRASoft
02-12-2008, 02:06 PM
Stooch: Please tell me where I said that Newtek is doing nothing? I'm sorry, but my intention is just the other way. I think they are programming very hard. I only don't know what they are programming. Maybe you don't care what their doing, but I do, as do others. If I would know they are working on a replacement of FPrime or better animation or hair or ..., then I would know they are doing the right thing and LW has a future. If they are doing a lot of research to make LW a single app, then I would say, damn, Newtek is digging it's own grave! As a programmer and beta tester of many products, I like to know where a program is heading and what is going on in that business. I'm even payed by several companies to do this beta testing for them.

Also, I work 16 hours a day and this 7 days a week, not 9-5, so who is implying here? I'm self-employed and have my own company since 5 years now. I know very well how hard it is to keep a business running, specially in the software branche. I've just lost 2 big customers because they have been bought out. Reason: my product is too 'new' for that branche, imagine that :(

Ztreem
02-12-2008, 03:32 PM
Why don't you then? :) You've been talking about NURBS for ages, and I think it's a very safe bet that we're not getting any kind of remotely fleshed out NURBS modeling toolset for a long, long while.

After all Maya Complete + Holomatix is only going to be a measly $3k + taxes. And I guess if money weren't an issue, you would have bought Maya for NURBS modeling long ago, or some other application? :)

Depending on what it is you do and what you need from your software, I think there might be better/cheaper solutions out there, if you combine a few applications.

I know my way around Maya (or at least I used to up to v4), not so much animation which I only did a bit of, but I know the interface, terminologies and particularly modeling and rendering (before MR - it's been a while). And frankly, depending on what you do, especially if you're only yourself in a one man outfit, Maya is a mighty big thingy to chew on and a lot of things are rather convoluted and hidden away all over (much like LW :p). I'm no big Maya guru, nor do I pretend to be. But I found that for modeling and rendering it's not really the holy grail. I think most of it's raw power lies in data structures, animation toolset, particles/physics/simulation and the brilliant minds of studio TDs being able to hook into MEL and make magic.

I've been in a situation myself where LightWave did not get features I needed, and I got tired of waiting (those features are still not there), so I actually went ahead and got the software I needed. It's much better than waiting around for things that are not likely to pop up anytime soon. And I don't have to whine here about not getting this and that, at least not for so long that it becomes self defeating. I still use LightWave a lot, I just needed some features it doesn't have and took the consequence and got them elsewhere.

But I know... maybe the next update! :)

I also know it's optimistic at best to wish for LightWave to get everything the other packages have. LightWave itself has it's fair share of unique solutions not found elsewhere, they just don't seem to get much love around here.

We all need different things and NewTek simply can't provide everything, so it's up to the individual to make a realistic assessment of what they honestly believe is within grasp for whatever time they're willing to wait. If that belief is faltering, then seek what you need elsewhere to supplement LightWave.

Well, this ended up longer than expected, and it's not just directed at you Ztreem :) It's more of a general observation :)

Yes, you're right. I should look for other solutions than LW for what I do. I just have LW and Love using it, not that using other software have to mean that I stop using LW. I also have Rhino and 3DBrush that I use at times, when I can afford an other solution I will buy it, until then I whish for LW to be my holy grail. :D

Wonderpup
02-12-2008, 03:57 PM
I've been in a situation myself where LightWave did not get features I needed, and I got tired of waiting (those features are still not there), so I actually went ahead and got the software I needed. It's much better than waiting around for things that are not likely to pop up anytime soon. And I don't have to whine here about not getting this and that, at least not for so long that it becomes self defeating. I still use LightWave a lot, I just needed some features it doesn't have and took the consequence and got them elsewhere.

This is a good argument for as much transparency as possible on the Developers side- knowing what features are likely to be implemented in the near term would help a lot in deciding to invest in other solutions. My own decision to start learning XSI was delayed while I waited for the 9x cycle to deliver the integrated lightwave I thought was imminent, a delay that I now regret.

However this assumes that my needs and those of NT are the same, which is not the case- it simply makes no commercial sense to clarify that certain much needed features are possibly years away- from NTs point of view it makes more sense to retain userbase by being as vauge as possible untill those features finaly can be delivered. Perfectly sensible from their point of view.

beverins
02-12-2008, 06:18 PM
Scanner refused to work, so digital picture time.

I just photographed the quote. The author is Dariush Derakshani (are you reading this board, Dariush? :-)) and mostly he's very upbeat about Maya and likes the new features of 2008... just that this one quote really stood out from his review of Maya, as he goes into the few niggling negatives he could think of in his one-page review.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/beverins/lw_quote.jpg

I mean, admittedly its not really something to sing and dance about, but reading about a positive in Lightwave in a review for Maya is quite unusual for me to see LOL :hat:

Cageman
02-13-2008, 01:21 AM
Maya 2008 is a huge pile of crap so far... alot of the basic functions such as euler filtering doesn't work anymore. Autodesk totaly screwed this release. Yes, it has some neat features, but the basic functionality that I and many Maya artists really use in production, are broken. It's not hard to be positive about other apps when finding all these new bugs in Maya 2008.

Speedmonk42
02-13-2008, 02:07 AM
I think they are gonna do something biggish.

Don't know why.

Just do.

Gonna be a happy NAB.

COBRASoft
02-21-2008, 10:34 AM
Well, it looks like Newtek have read this thread and they must have thought I was right :)

We know what the new release brings for 9.5, we even get some preview pictures and more under way for sure.

Now, finally some exciting threads again, no 'complaining'. Now, let's hope NT brings what they promised for this release. I don't care if they bought a company or developed every single thing themselves. I just want it to work in a LW way.

:lightwave