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mrpapabeis
02-03-2008, 10:54 AM
I went through the automated check out counter at Home Depot yesterday. And true to "3D is the new black" they had 3D animations on the touch screen showing you what to do. And I must say they were lousy. Animated characters with geometry folding in on itself at the joints. Barely textured. And it seemed as if reflections were turned on the characters skin and clothes. You know that look where there is no reflective environment so everything kinda "shines". Looks like a really bad Poser conversion. I wonder how much HD paid for it.


GP

ted
02-03-2008, 11:44 AM
If I were a 3D artist, (and I'm not), I would see this as an opportunity to make money.
Every day a light should go on as you see trends coming, but not executed properly.
Microsoft, YouTube, MySpace, even accessories for RVís are examples of people seeing a need and capitalizing on it.

Itís great you noticed this in a simple trip to Home Depot, but doing some homework and doing something about it can make you bank! Nice job catching the need.

3D, itís not just for Cartoon Movies any more. :D

Stooch
02-03-2008, 11:51 AM
lol seriously i bet you the quality of the 3d art is directly proportional to the amount of money spent on it. After working in a creative agency i have a deep appreciation of the length they will go to save a buck.

Lightwolf
02-03-2008, 11:54 AM
lol seriously i bet you the quality of the 3d art is directly proportional to the amount of money spent on it. After working in a creative agency i have a deep appreciation to the length they will go to save a buck.
Hm, as soon as you have a "creative" agency involved the quality of the art is usually inversely proportional to the amount of money the agency got ;)
(but proportional to the money the 3D artists get, so I agree ;) ).

Yes, I'm exaggerating, but only so slightly looking back at some projects...

Cheers,
Mike

Stooch
02-03-2008, 12:14 PM
yeah its shocking how much money the agency raked in and how little the execs wanted to set aside for the artists. EVERY PROJECT had a ridiculously short deadline. its their way of making sure that you dont bill them for too many hours. its amazing how many times i busted my *** to deliver something on time only to find out that the deadline was artificial. or caused by some incompetent project manager (or account exec) that "forgot" about the project until a couple of was weeks left. I hated working there. lol.

hrgiger
02-03-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm sure someone's brother did it who happens to have pirated a copy of Poser.

Wonderpup
02-03-2008, 02:10 PM
It's wierd, I see exactly the same thing in the supermarkets in the UK- a really appalling sub poser quality (I kid you not) animation. And they all seem to be using the same animation- and these are companies that pull in obscene amounts of profit on a daily basis.

There is a silver lining here though- what it tells us is that 3D still has enough mystique to impress some clients just because it's 3D- even if it's crap.

Lightwolf
02-03-2008, 02:17 PM
There is a silver lining here though- what it tells us is that 3D still has enough mystique to impress some clients just because it's 3D- even if it's crap.
Hm, maybe the question is: What other method is there to produce the same content for less money? (shooting doesn't count because you'd like it to be abstract). Any decent illustrator would probably charge more for a decent storyboard then it costs to produce that stuff.

Airline safety videos were just as bad until a few years ago... and they all seem to have bought the same animations as well.

Cheers,
Mike

Stooch
02-03-2008, 02:23 PM
hey id use poser for this crap. lol for stuff like this poser FTW. I dont think customers really give a rats *** about the quality of graphics when making a purchase. in fact those instructions in general seem to be really dumbed down. its like the store owners think that all their customers are retards.

"ok swipe your card here in this slot"


no **** really?

mrpapabeis
02-03-2008, 02:28 PM
No seriously this looks like a Poser import. I know I've done it before using Greenbrair's plugin. If there is no reflectivity on a material, it "defaults" to 100% reflective. So you'd have to open the surface editor and drop it back to zero. Anyway it was painful to watch. It looked like someone's first attempt at animation. And I am sending out feelers to see "who done it".


GP

mrpapabeis
02-03-2008, 02:31 PM
hey id use poser for this crap. lol for stuff like this poser FTW. I dont think customers really give a rats *** about the quality of graphics when making a purchase. in fact those instructions in general seem to be really dumbed down. its like the store owners think that all their customers are retards.

"ok swipe your card here in this slot"


no **** really?


Stooch,

I felt..... well....UNCLEAN.....

I have to watch something from Pixar to get rid of the bad persistence of vision.


GP

WhiteBoy
02-03-2008, 11:33 PM
I went through the automated check out counter at Home Depot yesterday. And true to "3D is the new black" they had 3D animations on the touch screen showing you what to do. And I must say they were lousy.

They have the thing at some of the grocery stores around here. It makes me giggle like a schoolgirl every time.

Stooch
02-04-2008, 12:19 AM
lol how do you know that you are a cg dork? when you giggle at the quality of CG animation in a shopping terminal.

Surrealist.
02-04-2008, 12:40 AM
I wonder how much HD paid for it.
GP

Not Home Depot. This is the software/hardware set up that they buy from some company that has sold this machine to a bunch of chains - all over the world apparently.

And by the way it is always crashing at my local supermarket. The other day I took a double take when the technician was there (again) rebooting the machines and I heard the familiar WinXP default start up music. I said to him, "You've got to be kidding me. Those things run on windows XP?" He smiled and confirmed. :D

StOuen
02-04-2008, 03:32 AM
I was in Halfords (a automotive supplies superstore in the UK) on the weekend and while I was waiting at the checkout, they had a plasma TV with a 3D presentation of the TomTom in car GPS system and... it sucked! Soft subpatched edges with as much form as a sucked boiled sweet. And the lighting showed little imagination. :thumbsdow

Wonderpup
02-06-2008, 08:12 AM
I started out as a book cover artist, spent years building up my skills, only to find that I often ended up competing with visual illiterates who could barely draw-

But they could work a lot faster and so made twice as much money!

Same thing in 3D, you spend years trying to achive a certain level only to discover that many clients have such underdeveloped vision that they can't really distinguish good from bad anyway. I'm sure whoever commissioned these animations thought they were state of the art stuff.

StOuen
02-06-2008, 09:08 AM
I'm sure whoever commissioned these animations thought they were state of the art stuff.

I spose it is down to client expectation. Industry in general is still quite blind to the possibilities granted by 3D, and their expectations are likely to grow as there are more 3D artists and animators fighting for their cash.

Andyjaggy
02-06-2008, 12:24 PM
They have the thing at some of the grocery stores around here. It makes me giggle like a schoolgirl every time.

Orem sprawlmart :)

ted
02-06-2008, 07:28 PM
I want to again remind ya'll, take this as a sign that you should think big!

Whoever is doing this work that we all laugh at...is making money doing it. :D
Inspire yourself and grab the opportunities out there! The best ones are the trickiest to find. :thumbsup:

MooseDog
02-06-2008, 07:29 PM
here in new england, i've seen at at the shaw's supermarket and at the wal-mart.

it's just SO bad that i've come to the conclusion that the manufacturer's president said to his teenage nephew (who told him he's interested in doing lord of the rings type stuff after he graduates college) "here's 2,000 bucks, call it your summer job."

Wonderpup
02-07-2008, 12:02 PM
There's something else you come across quite often, where a company will spend a fortune developing a product, or booking tv airspace, but when it comes to actualy producing the assets to sell the thing there's suddenly no money, so the tip of the marketing spear looks like sh*t

So before we go too far down the road to slagging off the guys who made this thing we ought to consider that they may have been paid less than the sales guy's lunch expenses account to actualy make it.

sadkkf
02-07-2008, 02:07 PM
I can't understand why they'd invest money in 3D animation for this when I'm sure it'd be much cheaper to film someone checking out.

Steamthrower
02-07-2008, 02:15 PM
I saw something similar at a local store. It showed this dorky looking woman who looked like she had been modeled after some Shrek character, but wearing mid-90's clothes and with flat-textured eyeballs. Since we have an invasion of Mexican immigrants where I am, this particular 3D chick's job was to announce "Press here for English" and "Presio hera fora Espanol" or whatever with a jaw flapping up and down, all shiny-like.

It made me cringe, personally.

8/

Chris S. (Fez)
02-07-2008, 02:51 PM
its like the store owners think that all their customers are retards.

"ok swipe your card here in this slot"


no **** really?

First time I used an automated checkout at the grocery store I was like "Wow, that was easy!" until that maternal "War Games voice" instructed me to collect my change.

I was like Indy frantically looking for a secret lever before a little kid came up, scooped the change out the dish that was RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, and was like "here ya go."

In retrospect I definitely should have pretended I was retarded...or blind.

Steamthrower
02-07-2008, 02:54 PM
Drool a bit and burp deeply. That'll save you every time.

jaf
02-07-2008, 03:25 PM
I'll have to give a look at these "machines." Do they use high resolution screens capable of good animations?

Steamthrower
02-07-2008, 03:40 PM
I'd say they're 640 x 480 VGA or so. I don't know what the refresh rate is but I'd say that they can definitely display cool graphics...if someone wanted them to.

JamesCurtis
02-07-2008, 04:25 PM
Quite frankly, I think the companies ONLY care that they get the point accross to the purchaser.

Hopper
02-07-2008, 08:18 PM
its like the store owners think that all their customers are retards.

"ok swipe your card here in this slot"


no **** really?
Those systems follow the same rules as most newspapers. You must design it at a 4th grade education level. Sit back and watch people go through self checkout for about an hour. You will feel like a rocket scientist.

And if you REALLY want population control, just take the warning labels off of everything. That will chlorinate the gene pool quite rapidly.

Stooch
02-07-2008, 11:37 PM
hey thats fine with me! survival of the fittesest.

jaf
02-08-2008, 06:16 PM
hey thats fine with me! survival of the fittesest.

Just hope spelling isn't part of the fitness criteria!:p

Stooch
02-09-2008, 08:00 AM
Just hope spelling isn't part of the fitness criteria!:p

ummm. you do realize that was intentional right? LOL.

Steamthrower
02-09-2008, 08:03 AM
Just hope spelling isn't part of the fitness criteria!:p

Yea, leik i was best in my class w\ speling. & i'm leik so surviving rite now. The job @ burer king has been liek cool 4 me. The human 2 human intreaction is gr8.

Hopper
02-09-2008, 12:43 PM
Yea, leik i was best in my class w\ speling. & i'm leik so surviving rite now. The job @ burer king has been liek cool 4 me. The human 2 human intreaction is gr8.

:lol:

Hookt on fonix werkt fer mee!

Steamthrower
02-09-2008, 12:47 PM
Wait a second, Hopperz, folks in Texas really talk that way...

Hopper
02-09-2008, 01:09 PM
Wait a second, Hopperz, folks in Texas really talk that way...
You are 100% correct sir. Go to any public area around the Waco or Killeen area. It's pretty damn scary. So far (other than Mississippi) it's the only place where you can hear a triple negative used in a sentence about every 30 seconds.

And every once in a while .. the dreaded "quadruple negative". Only expert rednecks should try this at home...

"...aint not nothin nethier..."

It's a quadruple negative with a double redundant contraction. Sounds like something you'd hear at the 2008 Redneck Olympics.

IMI
02-09-2008, 03:33 PM
It's a quadruple negative with a double redundant contraction. Sounds like something you'd hear at the 2008 Redneck Olympics.

:thumbsup: :lol:

Steamthrower
02-09-2008, 07:14 PM
And every once in a while .. the dreaded "quadruple negative". Only expert rednecks should try this at home...

"...aint not nothin nethier..."

It's a quadruple negative with a double redundant contraction. Sounds like something you'd hear at the 2008 Redneck Olympics.

That's classic right there. Demolition Derby, muscle car showouts, stock car drag racing, beer, and the durnest mean wrestling in the South.

eagleeyed
02-13-2008, 07:12 PM
:lol:

I could not stop laughing just then :P

Hopper
02-13-2008, 08:13 PM
My avatar (Corneil) has no hope in this forum full of cats.

Well, we'll just have to start a new thread then ... dogs vs. cats.. :D

My puppy.
http://home.austin.rr.com/mackerma/images/GoodDog1.jpg

Stooch
02-13-2008, 09:13 PM
mmm... that doggie is just about the size of a football.

Hopper
02-13-2008, 09:54 PM
lol .. yeah, he was. That was 6 years ago. Now he's a 31lb. football with big teeth. I don't think he even knows what a cat is though. I'm sure if he ever tangled with one, he'd get a big surprise.

Defiance
02-14-2008, 02:10 PM
Those systems follow the same rules as most newspapers. You must design it at a 4th grade education level. Sit back and watch people go through self checkout for about an hour. You will feel like a rocket scientist.

But those checkout systems are not easy to use. We have rocket scientist level researchers here that get frustrated by the damn things.



And if you REALLY want population control, just take the warning labels off of everything. That will chlorinate the gene pool quite rapidly.

It has nothing to do with whether someone is intelligent or not that they require warning labels. There are far too many different substances and products that are dangerous for any one person to remember or logically think through. What you're referring to are frivolous warning labels, but don't ever confuse that with useful warning labels.

Steamthrower
02-14-2008, 02:18 PM
Checkout systems not easy to use??? Defiance, I think you're confusing practical intelligence with mental intelligence. I dare say that Einstein might have been confused by a checkout system. Doesn't make him less intelligent, just less practically intelligent. Scientists can get all brain and no hands.

And warning labels...perhaps there's a use for them (RADIATION AREA) but there's no point in putting a label on the side of a lawnmower saying to not stick your fingers underneath.

If anyone's dumb enough to stick their fingers in, a label's not stopping them. Or a label on an oven door (HOT)...I mean, come on...

Defiance
02-14-2008, 03:20 PM
Checkout systems not easy to use??? Defiance, I think you're confusing practical intelligence with mental intelligence. I dare say that Einstein might have been confused by a checkout system. Doesn't make him less intelligent, just less practically intelligent. Scientists can get all brain and no hands.

No, I was responding to the statement that it should make you feel like a "rocket scientist" if you observe other people's frustrations with it.

There's a bit of unfounded condescension when you (and others) go on about how dumb everyone else is just because they can't figure out the machine. These systems are poorly designed from a human factors engineering standpoint and no one should be made to feel ashamed that they can't figure it out.

There are quantifiable measures that prove that the systems aren't intuitive enough. For example, the visual search area that one needs for the ones at Home Depot in order to see each slot is clearly too large for someone standing right in front of it. This is how you get people who keep looking over the system like they're dumbfounded: it's because they can't see the slot. Once you get used to the system, it's second nature but if you don't use it very often, this is extremely frustrating.

Another issue with them is the constant switching between having to look at the screen (one interface) and at the physical device (another, separate interface). The human mind takes time to switch between interfaces and this just introduces an extra delay in using the system. Again, once you're used to it, it's not a big problem, but for people who don't use it all the time, it can be a bother.



And warning labels...perhaps there's a use for them (RADIATION AREA) but there's no point in putting a label on the side of a lawnmower saying to not stick your fingers underneath.

If anyone's dumb enough to stick their fingers in, a label's not stopping them. Or a label on an oven door (HOT)...I mean, come on...

This all goes back to human factors. If a person's mental model (how they think it works and what components are inside and how the components move) of their lawnmower was complete, they'd realize it would be dumb to stick their fingers in. If it isn't, then they wouldn't know. Lawnmower designs are transparent enough (transparent meaning that their method of operation is fairly visible, not meaning that the device is optically transparent) that such a warning is unnecessary (what I called frivolous warning labels) but there are situations where this isn't the case.

For example, how many people who don't work at the hospital know that an MRI machine will suck metal in at high velocities? Unless you knew that the machine has a very powerful magnet inside of it and unless you knew that magnets can be powerful enough to accelerate oxygen tanks to lethal velocities, you could potentially make a fatal mistake. Can you imagine an MRI physicist laughing at you for that? To the physicist, no warning label was necessary at all.

The oven door example will show this better for a mundane situation - if my own mental model was formed because I was used to oven doors that are extremely well insulated and thermally non-conductive, I may not even consider that the door could be hot on a different oven. My mental model of oven doors includes the fact that they are insulated and I'll apply this to any oven I see. It's a cognitive short cut that all humans make in order to function.

Thus, warning labels are just a cheap way for the manufacturer to let you know that the thing is dangerous. A much better way is designing the device in such a way that it encourages a correct mental model when the user looks at it (i.e. make the design "transparent"). Once that happens, warning labels are unnecessary. Unfortunately, not all designs can be made transparent like that and we're stuck with warning labels.

Building a mental model for certain devices is hard and quite possibly impossible without domain-specific knowledge. This is why computers are so hard to figure out for a lot of people. And it has nothing to do with intelligence. It's simply an experience-based thing.

IMI
02-14-2008, 03:20 PM
but there's no point in putting a label on the side of a lawnmower saying to not stick your fingers underneath.


Actually, there is - the legal reason. 'cause you know as well as I do that some idiot is going to stick his hand under the mower then get a lawyer to sue and prove in court it wasn't his fault, because he didn't know...
All those idiotic warning labels - the truly "unnecessary" ones, are just to cover their ar$es in case of lawsuit.

Steamthrower
02-14-2008, 03:30 PM
Actually, there is - the legal reason. 'cause you know as well as I do that some idiot is going to stick his hand under the mower then get a lawyer to sue and prove in court it wasn't his fault, because he didn't know...
All those idiotic warning labels - the truly "unnecessary" ones, are just to cover their ar$es in case of lawsuit.

That's exactly right. And that's the ONLY reason, repeat, the ONLY REASON, that warning labels for mundane things exist.

I don't think any warning label should be on any oven door...I won't touch any of them because I actually have more than three brain cells...and I'll wait till the forklift is turned off before changing the tire...

I don't think it's condescension, Defiance. I mean, of course you don't know me, but, well...I have a lot of problems of my own but I don't think anyone's ever called me condescending before. :D

IMI
02-14-2008, 03:42 PM
and I'll wait till the forklift is turned off before changing the tire...


c'mon man, where's your sense of adventure? :D

I think my favorite ones are the plastic bags which have "This is not a toy!" printed all over them in big letters.

Steamthrower
02-14-2008, 03:43 PM
Man, once a co-worker handed me this warning image he had cut out from a plastic bag. It showed this guy with a bag over his head gasping for air. It was so retarded we saved it (that is the kid of stuff we put on the Wall of Shame).

Hopper
02-14-2008, 06:09 PM
There's a bit of unfounded condescension when you (and others) go on about how dumb everyone else is just because they can't figure out the machine.
Yup. Pretty much. Somebody has to be made fun of and since I'm not a racist, "they" are the obvious choice. Funny looking animals were next on the list, but since I can't get a good flaming response on the forum from AndyJaggy's cat...


...These systems are poorly designed from a human factors engineering standpoint and no one should be made to feel ashamed that they can't figure it out.

Hardly. It's designed to be paint by numbers...and it really is. Most of the time it's a common sense issue - which boils down to intelligence, not ignorance. Subtle nuances may cause the average person to stop and think for a second because it may be slightly different than the one at Walmart, or Lowes, etc., but when it's a total loss and they stand there staring blankly at the screen as it spouts "PRESS THE G*D DAM* ACCEPT BUTTON FOR CHR*ST SAKE", I have to make it a point to stop, stare, point, then laugh. I usually then look down at my son and remind him .. "Don't be a fool .. stay in school."

(elderly people don't count by the way - that would be downright disrespectful. I wait 'til I get to the car).

kmaas
02-14-2008, 08:23 PM
And I must say they were lousy.

And I must say I agree. That thing drives me absolutely nuts! I mean - for pete's sake, put five extra minutes into the thing and have it look like you didn't just spedn 2 minutes throwing it together. Drives me nuts.

Stooch
02-15-2008, 12:02 AM
usually there is a helpful clerk by the automatic machines to help out the mentally challenged. kind of sad that even with retard-proof UI you still need a good old fashioned manual typist to assist the inevitable dumbass.