PDA

View Full Version : Ann: The Kite Runner & infiniMap Pro



Lightwolf
01-28-2008, 02:26 PM
We've just published an interview (http://www.db-w.com/content/view/98/79/) with David Ebner of CafeFX covering their use of infiniMap Pro to bring Kabul to the big screen for the Kite Runner.

We hope you enjoy the read.

Cheers,
Mike

DiedonD
01-29-2008, 04:26 AM
Infinimap! You mean you really can put Image files the size of the whole city of Kabul with Infinimap, and our LW can take it?! How big were the pictures anyway?

Phil
01-29-2008, 05:49 AM
There is no theoretical limit, so far as I am aware - only your storage capacity and whatever limit the image format imposes. I've used massive images without pain. I'm anxiously awaiting any release for Mac LW :)

I've started using infiniMap for all textures, big or small, simply on the basis that LW's render system is so memory hungry that every little helps :D

DiedonD
01-29-2008, 05:54 AM
But where does all the heavy memory of all images goes?
Why doesnt it brings LW or any other app to its knees?

Thats amazing city detail BTW.

How did they do it? Did they just took a polygon and freezed to God knows what, and just put a high resolution image with Infinimap, and a city was revealed!

Lightwolf
01-29-2008, 06:22 AM
There is no theoretical limit, so far as I am aware
Actually, there is... the image can only have a maximum width/height of 4,294,967,296 pixels ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Phil
01-29-2008, 06:25 AM
But where does all the heavy memory of all images goes?
Why doesnt it brings LW or any other app to its knees?

Thats amazing city detail BTW.

How did they do it? Did they just took a polygon and freezed to God knows what, and just put a high resolution image with Infinimap, and a city was revealed!

It's essentially Level Of Detail optimisation - the same basic principles that you can apply to geometry, but applied to images. Consider :

- if you are really close to the image, you want all the detail preserved. However, you no longer need to load the entire image. If you dice the image up, and know what parts of the image need to be loaded, you can optimise the memory footprint. I guess this costs a little calculation time at render, but it's not noticeable.

- if you are far away from the image, you no longer care about the detail, but see more of the surface. So, you load a less detailed approximation of the image and save memory again.

It's a really cute idea and I'm surprised that infiniMap seems to be the only addon out there that takes this approach.

Lightwolf
01-29-2008, 06:30 AM
It's a really cute idea and I'm surprised that infiniMap seems to be the only addon out there that takes this approach.
Some renderers have a similar method built in (mental ray, gelato, renderman) - but the implementation seems less efficient in many cases and neither of them handle extremely huge textures (i.e. mental ray needs to be able to load the image into RAM to convert it and also stores it in an uncompressed format, which can cause a massive performance hit on a render farm).
The largest image I use for testing would be 2TB in size uncompressed, rougly 1.3 million by 650,000 pixels.

Cheers,
Mike

Matt
01-29-2008, 12:07 PM
Nice little interview Mike, good to see your products doing in the field! :D

Lightwolf
01-29-2008, 12:13 PM
Nice little interview Mike, good to see your products doing in the field! :D
Actually it is just a scheme to get us to go to the movies again ;) (It got released a few weeks ago and we still didn't see it).

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
01-29-2008, 12:27 PM
How big were the pictures anyway?
40k x 40k, I just asked.
That's roughly 4.5GB as an uncompressed RGB image.

Cheers,
Mike

Phil
01-29-2008, 12:30 PM
Chicken feed for infiniMap :D

Lightwolf
01-29-2008, 12:32 PM
Chicken feed for infiniMap :D
:stumped: Yup :dance:

Cheers,
Mike

hrgiger
01-29-2008, 07:12 PM
infini-map obvisouly helps you with using whatever size of image you want. What about sheer number of images?

Lightwolf
01-29-2008, 08:33 PM
infini-map obvisouly helps you with using whatever size of image you want. What about sheer number of images?
There are no internal limits (well, it should be in the 2 million range on a 32bit machine - that might get to be a bit unwieldy in the GUI though).
We've had a customer who used at least 200 of them in a single scene (to map a forests trees on a 32bit machine).

Oh, and as in LW, identical images are shared across the plugins. If you re-use an image there is hardly a difference in the memory footprint (unless a completely different part of the images instance is visible).

Cheers,
Mike

Sensei
01-31-2008, 02:42 AM
Actually, there is... the image can only have a maximum width/height of 4,294,967,296 pixels ;)


Doh! That's serious limitation!

Lightwolf
01-31-2008, 02:50 AM
Doh! That's serious limitation!
I know, barely sufficient to texture a globe with a texture that covers 10mm per pixel.

May be V2.0 should raise that limit... :stumped:

Cheers,
Mike

toby
02-03-2008, 02:03 PM
You can *easily* have Gigs of textures in a feature film shot, and this is where LW has serious issues, like it did on the Star Trek Nemesis and Serenity productions. That's why I love your plug-in Mike! Congratulations on getting into feature films, you deserved it a long time ago! (is this the first?)

Does it support exr texture maps? There's another production coming up, and it looks like it'll use LW, they normally use exr's but I'll make sure they know about Infinimap regardless.

Lightwolf
02-03-2008, 02:07 PM
Hi Toby,

You can *easily* have Gigs of textures in a feature film shot, and this is where LW has serious issues, like it did on the Star Trek Nemesis and Serenity productions. That's why I love your plug-in Mike! Congratulations on getting into feature films, you deserved it a long time ago! (is this the first?)
Thanks. Well, the first one we know about. It's been used on a couple of TV shows as far as we know, most customers are vague due to NDAs (understandeably).

Does it support exr texture maps? There's another production coming up, and it looks like it'll use LW, they normally use exr's but I'll make sure they know about Infinimap regardless.
I hate to spill the beans before the release... but yes, we're just wrapping up the beta cycle for the next (free) update which will support EXR (amongst other, mainly workflow oriented, additions).

Cheers,
Mike