PDA

View Full Version : The Evil Maya



Stingslang
01-20-2008, 05:28 PM
People say that LW's character animation is very limited in comparison to Maya's. Why is this?

gatz
01-20-2008, 05:37 PM
Oh look. Somebody spilled some gasoline...

Stingslang
01-20-2008, 05:39 PM
Well I'm sorry but I have to ask. I really would like to know. This doesn't mean that I don't think Lightwave is a great program or that I want to switch, it just means that I would like some information.

voriax
01-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Hmm, yeah last thing we need is another Maya vs LW thread. They tend to become entirely about doom & gloomers speculating on how LW's character tools are going to turn out (or not).

Keeping it simple; Maya's become the benchmark for character animation toolsets, hence why it's used in pretty much every motion picture requiring character animation. Check out some Maya rigging videos on Youtube or CGtalk and you'll see what I mean.

LW's character animation tools are quite behind the times (which the developers know), but we've been told they are a major focus of the v9 cycle.

eagleeyed
01-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Oh look. Somebody spilled some gasoline...
hmmm, yes, it does seem that way :D

I second what voriax said, and think this thread should be closed now as it wont stay pretty forever :P

StevieB
01-20-2008, 09:58 PM
LOL, Thats amazing, very nice sarcastic sense of humour.


The POINT is he didn't know that he was spilling gasoline. So nobody should come down on him for it. And as long as we don't have any pyro's around...... :D

AbnRanger
01-20-2008, 10:22 PM
LOL, Thats amazing, very nice sarcastic sense of humour.


The POINT is he didn't know that he was spilling gasoline. So nobody should come down on him for it. And as long as we don't have any pyro's around...... :D...Oh, but we do, you see :D

Speedmonk42
01-20-2008, 10:38 PM
Hmm, yeah last thing we need is another Maya vs LW thread.


No no no....

Those were LW vs Maya threads, NOT Maya vs LW threads.

Entirely different.

DiscreetFX
01-20-2008, 10:42 PM
@StevieB

There's at least one pyro here.

:D

http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1998/980322-panagouleas.html

Iain
01-21-2008, 02:21 AM
Keeping it simple; Maya's become the benchmark for character animation toolsets, hence why it's used in pretty much every motion picture requiring character animation. Check out some Maya rigging videos on Youtube or CGtalk and you'll see what I mean.

LW's character animation tools are quite behind the times (which the developers know), but we've been told they are a major focus of the v9 cycle.

That's pretty concise. I don't think anything else needs to be said, but oh it will be!.
(Is Jin back yet?)

Steamthrower
01-21-2008, 06:37 AM
Look at Stingslang's post history. It's a long list of silly questions like this. Either we're dealing with someone who really needs a lot of simple questions answered or someone who's just trying to stir up trouble.

Or someone who has problems with writing anything containing more than one sentence...

Seriously though, Stingslang, do a search for LW vs. Maya and you'll get a ridiculously long thread chock full of nutritious animation information.

Sekhar
01-21-2008, 11:54 AM
...Oh, but we do, you see :D
I tend to agree. If someone really wanted to know specifically why/how Maya CA is better, I don't think he'd name the thread "The Evil Maya."

IMI
01-21-2008, 12:48 PM
Well, he hasn't come back to sling some stinging slang yet...

Stooch
01-21-2008, 05:09 PM
Look at Stingslang's post history. It's a long list of silly questions like this. Either we're dealing with someone who really needs a lot of simple questions answered or someone who needs a severe beating.

quoted for agreement.

inquisitive
01-21-2008, 08:32 PM
lol well i own lw9 and sight... im also learning maya right now, of course like LW more... we shall see..

Puguglybonehead
01-23-2008, 07:24 PM
Sorry if this is straying a bit OT:

I'm on the verge of starting a full-time animation course at a career college here. The main app is Maya. `Can't find any schools in Canada that use Lightwave. I'd really like to know what I'm in for. Have tried doing the self-taught thing in my spare time (never enough time). Finally deciding on school.

Wish it was Lightwave they were using (the instructor even has an older version of LW at home), but it seems, only the Vancouverites are using LW for production. Hoping to find a decent job in the end, but hoping I don't go mad (or broke....hello, OSAP?) in the process. So, I'm looking at a face-to-face with the infamous Maya for 12 months. Is it really that different/difficult to use?

Stooch
01-23-2008, 09:47 PM
if you are dumb then anything is difficult to use. you are asking a very broad question. For me maya is a piece of cake.

is that what you are looking for? otherwise im not sure where you are headed with this angle. you are better off learning maya if you are just starting. and school will only return on your investment of time and effort. as long as you have the willpower to do it then you will achieve anything (and it sounds like you dont if you cant find enough time for it) .

seriously if you dont get a hardon from using 3d software, then its not a good career choice :)

animotion
01-26-2008, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Stooch

seriously if you dont get a hardon from using 3d software, then its not a good career choice.

I don't think its the 3d Software, more like your desktop image behind it :D

dccpro
01-26-2008, 09:48 PM
I see his point about the hard on!
If he has enough time to go to school. He had plenty of time time to learn it on his own.
School takes longer!

Puguglybonehead
01-27-2008, 11:45 PM
No, the thing is, working fulltime at a day job (40+ hours/week), plus commuting, and all the domestic things that are part of normal life means I do not have much useful time to practice with Lightwave, when I am not too dog-tired and unable to think clearly.

I am talking about quitting full time work, and getting OSAP (a government educational loan, familiar to most people in Ontario) so that I will go to school full time, and work part time, and hopefully have job prospects at the end of it all. I know I will have a ridiculously huge debt to pay down, doing this. It just seems like there is no other way. It just bothers me that the schools here don't offer Lightwave in any of their programs.

As for the hard on, I hope you have a nice secluded cubicle to work on your own in. ;)

dccpro
01-27-2008, 11:57 PM
No, the thing is, working fulltime at a day job (40+ hours/week), plus commuting, and all the domestic things that are part of normal life means I do not have much useful time to practice with Lightwave, when I am not too dog-tired and unable to think clearly.

I am talking about quitting full time work, and getting OSAP (a government educational loan, familiar to most people in Ontario) so that I will go to school full time, and work part time, and hopefully have job prospects at the end of it all. I know I will have a ridiculously huge debt to pay down, doing this. It just seems like there is no other way. It just bothers me that the schools here don't offer Lightwave in any of their programs.

As for the hard on, I hope you have a nice secluded cubicle to work on your own in. ;)
Well then you have plenty of time to learn it on your own, if your not working! I am not a fan of school for 3D, for I have seen many go through the process and come out the other end without the knowledge or skill that is needed!

I work from home, so I have plenty of privacy to keep my mouse in one hand and my package in the other.:D

Stooch
01-28-2008, 12:29 AM
there was a long thread with alot of people voicing their opinion that school isnt a good investment for this field. i recommend you spend the money on software and tutorials.

as far as hardons, i like to work late so typically im at the office by myself...

just kidding of course lol. but you really should love doing it so much that finding time shouldnt be an issue.


No, the thing is, working fulltime at a day job (40+ hours/week), plus commuting, and all the domestic things that are part of normal life means I do not have much useful time to practice with Lightwave, when I am not too dog-tired and unable to think clearly.

I am talking about quitting full time work, and getting OSAP (a government educational loan, familiar to most people in Ontario) so that I will go to school full time, and work part time, and hopefully have job prospects at the end of it all. I know I will have a ridiculously huge debt to pay down, doing this. It just seems like there is no other way. It just bothers me that the schools here don't offer Lightwave in any of their programs.

As for the hard on, I hope you have a nice secluded cubicle to work on your own in. ;)

colkai
01-28-2008, 02:11 AM
No, the thing is, working fulltime at a day job (40+ hours/week), plus commuting, and all the domestic things that are part of normal life means I do not have much useful time to practice with Lightwave, when I am not too dog-tired and unable to think clearly.

Egad!
Finally, someone singing my tune. :p ;)
I hear you loud N clear, add to that my weekends taken up normally with crzy stuff like 2 solid days pulling down Puma enclosures. :D

Nice to know there are others out there is that "slim window of playtime" opportunity. :)

archijam
01-28-2008, 05:08 AM
Egad!
Finally, someone singing my tune. :p ;)
I hear you loud N clear, add to that my weekends taken up normally with crzy stuff like 2 solid days pulling down Puma enclosures. :D

Nice to know there are others out there is that "slim window of playtime" opportunity. :)

I have to admit I caught myself watching one of protons vids on my laptop on a zurich tram the other day ...

Am I beyond help ... ? :P

j.

JBT27
01-31-2008, 07:53 AM
I did think about putting those vids on my iPod the other day so I don't waste any time not doing something LW.....and you're asking if you're beyond help :D

Julian.

geothefaust
01-31-2008, 09:33 AM
Egad!
Finally, someone singing my tune. :p ;)
I hear you loud N clear, add to that my weekends taken up normally with crzy stuff like 2 solid days pulling down Puma enclosures. :D

Nice to know there are others out there is that "slim window of playtime" opportunity. :)

Man do I hear you there. I have almost no time at all to play around in LW/Zbrush. It's a real pain, and I've considered doing the same thing as you, for a little while now. But as someone else has already said, I've heard too many times now that plopping down on software and tutorials is the best way to go, that's what I've been doing for a few years now. I guess it's better to keep on truckin'...

Steamthrower
01-31-2008, 11:10 AM
William Vaughan .mov + iPod nano = no long waits.

Stooch
01-31-2008, 11:44 AM
Peolple say that Maya's render-engine isnt that great comparison to Lightwave's. Why is this?
Peolple say that Maya's Archi-Modeling-Tools isnt that great comparison to Lightwave's. Why is this?

Because its true...

LWs CA toolset lacks the kind of scripting/interaction speed/rigging features that maya offers. you would not want to use LW for animating a heavy character scene with multiple actors and complex deformations. If you want to animate a robot with simple IK fine. but if you want a soft, flabby, hairy character with cloth and all the fixins, then lw is really not even close to viable. there are hacks and workarounds to cheat things but overall its a painful experience.

at the end of the day though, its not the tool its the artist.

colkai
02-01-2008, 01:58 AM
I've heard too many times now that plopping down on software and tutorials is the best way to go, that's what I've been doing for a few years now. I guess it's better to keep on truckin'...
Yup,
For me, I can think of a couple of tutorials that pushed me.
One, the Kurv Car DVDs, until then, I really couldn't "get" splines.

Two, and by far, the best, the Serenity tutorial over on the old LWG3D boards, they are currently organising getting it back up for Foundation 3D and when they do, I will be pushing it to everyone who asks about modelling. :D

It is THE tutorial for showing you that you truly can do better than you think. :thumbsup:

zapper1998
02-01-2008, 02:54 AM
Oh look. Somebody spilled some gasoline...


I have the match headed your way, and its lit....

Cougar12dk
02-01-2008, 04:04 AM
Maybe this is what Stingslang wanted.... to get people all riled up. He hasn't even bothered to post again.

Stingslang
02-02-2008, 10:02 AM
I would like to make a small point. If you think a thread on a forum is silly, there's something you can do about it. Don't post anything and move on.

Cougar12dk
02-02-2008, 10:34 AM
Well, I really couldn't give less of a horse fart what you think. I merely commented to gatz and zapper.

IMI
02-02-2008, 01:05 PM
I would like to make a small point. If you think a thread on a forum is silly, there's something you can do about it. Don't post anything and move on.


Then again, some may make the point that to ask questions, and receive answers, yet to ignore all that while choosing a comment which has nothing to do with the question to make one's next reply to... might be considered a bit...silly. :D

tonybliss
02-02-2008, 03:08 PM
This is honestly horrible .... EVERYONE here ...
The reality is - if you think the oringinal post was of malice then do not post to it ... 'cause the only malice i see here is from some posters, not SlingSlang.
Three pages of heckle and malice .... hmmmmm
Impressive community i must say .........

Iain
02-02-2008, 05:04 PM
This is honestly horrible .... EVERYONE here ...
The reality is - if you think the oringinal post was of malice then do not post to it ... 'cause the only malice i see here is from some posters, not SlingSlang.
Three pages of heckle and malice .... hmmmmm
Impressive community i must say .........

Get a grip of yourself. This is one online community that does actually operate as a community. The people here talk to one another and try to help in return for receiving help.

We're naturally concerned about trolls so anyone who has no presence other than overt provocation becomes slightly conspicuous.

tonybliss
02-02-2008, 05:10 PM
Ok Iain .. I will get a grip of myself

makes sense tho'
'will let you know when i am finished

nice reply

Iain
02-03-2008, 02:40 AM
It just strikes me (and others, apparently) that popping up again and again to ask abrupt questions which could be answered by a quick search and then disappearing without even acknowledging-never mind thanking-those who have taken the time to answer, is a bit odd.

Sorry if my last post was rude, cgswami, but I can't understand your viewpoint unless this is the only time you have seen a thread like this.

But then it's the ones like me who read just about every thread that are prone to acting strangely :hey: geek alert!

tonybliss
02-03-2008, 05:24 AM
Hey Iain, I do understand ... TOTALLY. Its just that it is heavily better not to reply to these threads or just one person post "DO A SEARCH" instead of the long "this is going to create problem list of posts" it walks right into the problems we try to avoid, plus keeps the thread alive on the top ... ignoring it just helps it dissappear.
... and i used to read the filth that these threads generate when i was now getting into LW a few years back (always remember on Spinquad the day when Leigh van der Byl left the forum and LW - even saved the page)
so I know, I only checked this thread becuse the title was a bit different "The evil Maya" I thought its was a point someone was making about Maya.
I do hope you understand ;)
Cheers man :)

IMI
02-03-2008, 10:11 AM
(always remember on Spinquad the day when Leigh van der Byl left the forum and LW - even saved the page)


Oh? Is there an actual story behind that? I've always wondered. Got a link? :D

tonybliss
02-03-2008, 12:22 PM
http://spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6918&page=4&pp=15

but they have deleted ALL the post with leigh; but i have the originals saved.

to put simple, it was a matter of backbiting and pettyness; and I really dread these things, so thats why i commented here ;)

tonybliss
02-03-2008, 12:35 PM
Oh PS Please PM me if you need to clear anything else in general pertaining to this thread et al
I don't want to keep this bastard alive ...

To be impartial to the original poster -
LW as we know it is evolving and changing; alas most of Protons Tuts may in a couple months become obselete and he will replenish us with new ones (may his life be long and fruitful)
As it is right now it is still VERY useful, in my own small studio, it works ...


Maya is good, very good, but NOT the best it has its short comings to, including stability
It has grown since i started to used it heavily (version 4 -4.5)

Best advice I can give to you as I do to my students is to Try the tria versions/PLE versions FREELY available on the sites of BOTH software.

Let's end this here .....
(.) (.) "Make LOVE not war" - somebody smart :b

IMI
02-03-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks for the link. :) Too bad they took out the good stuff. ;)
I was thinking about PM-ing you to see if I could get a copy of the removed text, but then I figured why bother. It really makes no difference. Leigh has given me some good advice on texturing in the past at CG Talk, plus the LW 3D 8 texturing book, and I see no reason to have my opinion of her marred by any potentially nasty comments she may have made. At least I'm assuming she did. There were a few times in the book I felt she was on the verge, but refrained. It's the only book I ever read since grade school where I felt I was going to get slapped on the wrist if I didn't pay close attention. ;)
Just one question: If there was some major explosive thread, I can see someone choosing to leave a forum for good, but you're not saying she left LW for that reason too, are you?
I always assumed she went XSI because it suited her work better.

Anyway, I think it's kind of silly for them to leave the thread there at all, if not completely intact. What's left just looks like a happy get-together - very one-sided for the most part, and leaves more questions than answers.
Oh well, not my call. :)

Exception
02-03-2008, 08:39 PM
The people here talk to one another and try to help in return for receiving help.

I don't like Iain.
He steals my cookies.

Iain
02-04-2008, 02:56 AM
Were those your cookies? Sorry, but someone left my milk out of the fridge so I just took everything I could find.

Ahh takes me back to those (un)happy flat sharing days.

Matt
02-04-2008, 06:18 AM
I think I'm going to start posting on Maya forums asking why they are such a bunch of tossers, seems fair to me!

:D

Iain
02-04-2008, 06:22 AM
Just post random questions like:
"Can maya do walk cycles better than xsi?"

Thing is, that's how people communicate on Autodesk forums.

theo
02-04-2008, 06:37 AM
It just strikes me (and others, apparently) that popping up again and again to ask abrupt questions which could be answered by a quick search

The 'forum search' response is the new RTFM.

Problem is, both of these responses are lame 98% of the time.

Forum searches are useful but do little to keep forums current and lively. Additionally, If everyone RTFM'd, forums would cease to be current and lively.

Forums need inquisitive people posting questions, however 'trollish' they may be perceived.

When we start shackling questions posed with procedure based on local social schema then communication starts to take on a wholly different and less interesting demeanor.

Iain
02-04-2008, 06:57 AM
People say that LW's character animation is very limited in comparison to Maya's. Why is this?

Is this interesting communication?
At first glance, I thought it was spam.

98% eh, Theo?
I love specifics.:bowdown:

theo
02-04-2008, 07:33 AM
"of interest" is purely subjective.

Exactly.:thumbsup:

theo
02-04-2008, 07:43 AM
Is this interesting communication?
At first glance, I thought it was spam.

98% eh, Theo?
I love specifics.:bowdown:

If the initiated thread fails to rise to a standard worthy of response... it is uninteresting. This objective process sinks or floats threads.

The life of this thread is being maintained and nurtured by response.

Typically, a thread response is a result of interest, however muted.

Iain
02-04-2008, 08:34 AM
Typically, a thread response is a result of interest, however muted.

Or a reaction to something disagreeable.

theo
02-04-2008, 10:00 AM
Yet you choose to participate and show your interest. So what exactly is it you're trying to say? :)

As you know, the thread was derailed with a railing on its appropriateness as a forum topic.

As such, a particular post from Iain piqued my 'interest' and I responded with an alternative opinion.

I am not sure how and where you determined or interpreted a lack of interest on my part concerning this thread. If I had no interest I wouldn't be here, which was the point of my stated opinion.

theo
02-04-2008, 10:07 AM
Or a reaction to something disagreeable.

Well, yes... though, one would have to be sufficiently curious about a conversation to even hazard a reaction, no matter how disagreeable.

Bog
02-04-2008, 05:11 PM
*barges to the head of the queue*

Maya's got nicer rigging tools, if by "nicer" you can stand the huge learning curve that goes with the rest of it. It does things like squashy skin over bone a bit better, and you can drag programmers into small rooms and feed them caffeine until they do stuff.

Also, it's hugely more expensive and, er, frequently needs a team of programmers.

LightWave is vastly superior 'cause you can still use it after a few beers.

NEXT!

IMI
02-04-2008, 05:39 PM
LightWave is vastly superior 'cause you can still use it after a few beers.


You can still use it after many beers, too, and even a couple of shots of bourbon. But tequila makes the lights act funny and the camera gets wobbly. 8~

Bog
02-04-2008, 05:49 PM
Hey! You're talking about some of my best work, there!

Stooch
02-04-2008, 09:14 PM
for what its worth although i answered the Maya question seriously, i thought it was a dumb question. it really should and could have been searched for. I don't mind seeing people getting chewed out for asking obvious questions or questions that are too broad. I think its an important part of learning CG to be made aware when you make a stupid question as long as there is an explanation as to why its stupid.

its like asking "hey why are sneakers better than high heels". without saying if you are a guy or a girl, what you intend to do with them and how much you weigh.