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blazer003
01-15-2008, 08:32 PM
In the CG Designer (VT-5) when I highlight text and tell it to underline, it only underlines the first part of the first word that I highlighted. Italics and Bold work as they should.

Also, if I want to paste a page of text, is there a way to make it word wrap automatically? Right now I'm just going in and putting line breaks in manually.

What all is everybody using for their character generation. Are you sticking with CG (which seems clunky and outdated to me) or are you using something else? Suggestions are always appreciated.

CreatvGnius
01-15-2008, 10:35 PM
In the CG Designer (VT-5) when I highlight text and tell it to underline, it only underlines the first part of the first word that I highlighted. Italics and Bold work as they should.

Also, if I want to paste a page of text, is there a way to make it word wrap automatically? Right now I'm just going in and putting line breaks in manually.

What all is everybody using for their character generation. Are you sticking with CG (which seems clunky and outdated to me) or are you using something else? Suggestions are always appreciated.

Not sure, but perhaps you left CG, then went back in again, successively, and lost some RAM in the process? What happens after trying a warm reboot, Blazer?
-PeterG

UnCommonGrafx
01-16-2008, 05:41 AM
Ya know, I saw LiveType being worked on the other day and ... Let's just say, I was impressed and envious.

Mirage/Aura would be GREAT...if ONLY it let you edit what's already on the canvas. For this reason I believe that photoshop would be the most CG-like replacement for VTCG.

Hecky darn, I would go so far as to say any program that let's you manage and edit the text already placed to the canvas as a replacement.
DFX/Fusion
AE
Xara 3D - This one is quite cool and also does animation

There are even some flash text engines, e.g., swish-max, my favorite, that could pump out CG effects along with animation. I feel that it has to have animation to match the CG to be replace.

Side note: if the CG had a proper interface, it COULD be quite functional.

SCS
01-16-2008, 12:33 PM
I second the Photoshop/CG approach - I wish it could output to the VT card like AE, tho...
I have also heard compliments about TitleBox, however the price is too steep for me.

ScorpioProd
01-16-2008, 01:23 PM
I feel that it has to have animation to match the CG to be replace.
You should check out the ProTitler that comes in Vegas Pro 8.

CreatvGnius
01-16-2008, 03:27 PM
You should check out the ProTitler that comes in Vegas Pro 8.

Actually, I would be very interested to hear what UnCommon Grafx thinks of the new CG in Vegas 8 -- ProTitler™ (if he's seen it, or the free demo) compared to his recently being exposed to the very impressionable LiveType™ that's available for Mac systems.

I haven't seen the new Vegas one -- but I've got a suspicion that it won't impress like Mac's solution, relative to the ease of providing for utter fluidity of motion amongst individual text characters within the same line.

What's *your* take on that aspect of Vegas' ProTitler™ Eugene -- does it have what it takes to compete well with LiveType?
-PeterG

UnCommonGrafx
01-16-2008, 04:12 PM
Having just purchased the Adobe Master Collection, One Uber App in many Modules, I can only say that that will be my focus for some time to come.

I'm of the belief that NOTHING is going to come close to the Mac solution. And it's amazing, too, considering all that DirectX is supposed to be about.

Some dials and knobs on the CG instead of all those darned nested controls...

blazer003
01-16-2008, 04:15 PM
I have the new Photoshop CS3 (and have been using it for titles since I can't seem to solve my underline problem) and it has new animation features, but I haven't explored them at all yet. It may be a viable solution. If only VT could import AE sequences natively like Premiere can now.

:Edit: I will say, though that thus far I'm very much enjoying my VT-Edit experience, especially on VT-5. The single best change so far is that zooming now goes to the time line and not the middle of the screen. Granted I hardly used VT-Edit 4.6 so maybe you could set it to do that, but I never found that option.

CreatvGnius
01-16-2008, 04:58 PM
Having just purchased the Adobe Master Collection, One Uber App in many Modules, I can only say that that will be my focus for some time to come.

I'm of the belief that NOTHING is going to come close to the Mac solution. And it's amazing, too, considering all that DirectX is supposed to be about.

Some dials and knobs on the CG instead of all those darned nested controls...

I honestly believe that should NewTek develop more for Mac, exploiting some of its advantages over the PC platform -- in the implementation of cool new video and graphics design tools -- they'd probably do quite well from a financial standpoint, in that glistening Mac arena. Just my hunch...
-PeterG

blazer003
01-16-2008, 05:24 PM
Macs are gaining more and more users all the time, or so it feels (haven't analyzed the actual market data). I am still a PC guy, but more out of stuborness than actual reasons. I swear if Macs came standard with a two button mouse they would convert more people faster. I cannot stand the one button mice that I encounter on the macs at school. WE HAVE MORE THAN ONE FINGER. LET US USE THEM!

ScorpioProd
01-16-2008, 07:19 PM
You can use two (or more) button mice on a Mac. Really, you can.

I don't see Newtek developing for the Mac, in terms of a VT or TriCaster. Remember, these are very specialized applications in which Newtek actually does all they can to hide the operating system from the user anyway. So what box it is running on shouldn't matter.


I haven't seen the new Vegas one -- but I've got a suspicion that it won't impress like Mac's solution, relative to the ease of providing for utter fluidity of motion amongst individual text characters within the same line.

What's *your* take on that aspect of Vegas' ProTitlerô Eugene -- does it have what it takes to compete well with LiveType?
-PeterG
No, it doesn't impress as much or come close to what LiveType on a Mac can do.

There really is no PC equivalent to that. The only product that comes close is its ancestor, India Pro CG, which can still do cool stuff in its 1.0 PC version.

As for ProType, it is totally different from the Vegas interface. It's more like a BorisFX type interface. It is very powerful, but it is a new application, so it's still teething a bit and is NOT easy to use.

That said, it has some good examples in it so you can figure out what's going on, if you're into these kind of things. I've done a lot of cool intros with it.

There are all kinds of animation tools in ProTitler, much, much more than in SpeedEDIT's CG. It's more like BorisFX or After Effects in terms of that.

It also gives me almost all the options I can get in SpeedEDIT's CG for scrolling. This is a big deal to me since previous to this Vegas' scroll tool was extremely limited.

I'll be publishing my review soon on MCE editing a full project in Vegas Pro 8 versus SpeedEDIT 1.5.1 with Bob Tasa's MCE, and this includes a comparison of doing a five minute long scroll in each. Yes, five minutes, about 320 lines.

Since this is a CG thread, I'll tell you the CG scroll part of the report right now:

In terms of text flexibility and ease of changing between styles like bold, normal, italic, etc. They are both evenly matched. BUT, in terms of changing text size, that is easier and quicker in ProTitler, since you don't have to dig down into the control tree to do it. Anything in working with CG for video is a VISUAL kind of thing. If I want to change a line, I expect to select that line and change it, NOT have to dig into a control tree to change the size of it. For some things I love SpeedEDIT's control tree, but NOT for CG work.

In terms of primative objects, like lines or any polygons, SpeedEDIT's CG wins, since ProTitler doesn't have those, and its underline tool doesn't work correctly. So just pure text in ProTitler.

In terms of working with long text scrolls, ProTitler will get really bogged down if you input more than a couple pages. The solution to this is to put your text into a text file first and the paste it into a text block. SpeedEDIT's CG doesn't get bogged down on the input like this. At one time it did, but it doesn't anymore.

As for scroll quality, I am happy with SpeedEDIT CG's scroll quality, but that said, ProTitler's looks a little bit better, though it's hard to actually qualify/quantify why.

But now we get to the final render. SpeedEDIT doesn't have to render its CG scroll, Vegas does. I mean for the final product, everything can preview real-time when editing, of course. Well, hard to believe, but rendering this 5-minute end scroll over a jumpback as a DV AVI took me THREE HOURS in Vegas Pro 8. While SpeedEDIT's CG doesn't take me any more time than a normal SpeedEDIT render.

What can I say, SpeedEDIT wins the render time part of this.

So anyway, in conclusion, I recommend SpeedEDIT's CG over Vegas Pro 8's ProTitler, IF the job is a LONG CG scroll.

For fancy openings, I'd go with ProTitler.

blazer003
01-16-2008, 08:01 PM
SpeedEDIT's CG doesn't get bogged down on the input like this. At one time it did, but it doesn't anymore.

This interested me. I tried copying and pasting out of notepad (that way I knew there would be little inherent formatting.) and it just pasted one big long line and I had to insert line breaks. I am new to VT and CG edit, so what am I doing wrong. I tried to draw a text box to constrain it, but I couldn't figure out how to draw one.

And the settings that come up when you paste were a little confusing, but none gave these results (word wrapping).

SBowie
01-16-2008, 09:38 PM
There really is no PC equivalent to that. The only product that comes close is its ancestor, India Pro CG, which can still do cool stuff in its 1.0 PC version.True - really, I haven't seen anything nearly as cool since the Amiga days. Remember some of that cool stuff out of proDAD, Clarissa, Adorage ... I think Widlfire was their's too. Amazing (man I'm old.)

ScorpioProd
01-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Hmmh... Don't know what to tell you, it worked here.

This was just lines I'd typed in Notepad and I copied and pasted them in.

This is in the SpeedEDIT CG. I hit paste and the only option I picked was the "center" alignment one.

And they all came in as separate lines.

Note that Newtek's CGs don't use text boxes or text blocks, there's no such thing in Newtek's CGs. Everything is adjusted line by line.

blazer003
01-16-2008, 09:51 PM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding. It was a paragraph in note pad, with no manual line breaks, but just word wrapped in notepad, which is how it imported into CG Edit. (so if I turn off word wrap in notepad it appears as a big long line.) So do I still have to do manual line breaks before I paste it in?

ScorpioProd
01-16-2008, 11:18 PM
OH, yeah, that's why. No, you need manual line breaks when you type it into Notepad.

blazer003
01-17-2008, 12:34 PM
Ok, thanks for the advice, but I don't think I'll be using the CG editor but for very quick simple things. With a few tweaks it seems like it could be very good, but I think it's design hasn't been changed since I used Speed Razor way back when.

It REALLY needs some updates IMO.

CreatvGnius
01-17-2008, 12:40 PM
Ok, thanks for the advice, but I don't think I'll be using the CG editor but for very quick simple things. With a few tweaks it seems like it could be very good, but I think it's design hasn't been changed since I used Speed Razor way back when.

It REALLY needs some updates IMO.


Blazer, are there features and changes you'd like to see, relative to the CG, which you feel haven't been discussed at all -- or in awhile?

For me, it would be better management of memory resources available to VT (especially after the CG has been exited).
-PeterG

Cineman
01-17-2008, 01:57 PM
Think folks just homed in on your last paragraph, ignoring your thread title and first two paragraphs for the most part.


In the CG Designer (VT-5) when I highlight text and tell it to underline, it only underlines the first part of the first word that I highlighted. Italics and Bold work as they should.
Use the paint tools in CG Designer, straight line constrained, to make your underline. It can have the same attributes as your font (such as shadow and edge pixels), if you like. After being drawn it acts just like a line of text so you can grab it an move it around as you wish. Once satisfied with its relationship to the line, you can move both around together by lassoing.


Also, if I want to paste a page of text, is there a way to make it word wrap automatically? Right now I'm just going in and putting line breaks in manually.
Saw you mentioning further down about importing text files. Not the answer that you seek, but may have something that you can use. I do well over a hundred lower third CGs for a Sunday service. To have any time to do the fun things like Sermon or Song Illustration, Countdown Videos, I really need to speed through this part.

I convert the lyrics docs to .txt. In that, I do the line feeds manually. Is a little help that I center justify, and end up making line breaks as much for phraseology as safe area space. At the same time I am adding "//" at each point that I want a page break. (Even to including instrumental break insurance blanks.)

I then use a script that I modified/developed to automate the creation of the song lyric pages. Things like, font, font size, attributes, even spacing are elsewhere in the script.


What all is everybody using for their character generation. Are you sticking with CG (which seems clunky and outdated to me) or are you using something else? Suggestions are always appreciated.
Think that this has been well discussed already. I use the various NewTek CG programs.

Nes Gurley

bojanpop
07-17-2008, 02:00 PM
About titlebox.Call me.The price does not have to be too high.

[email protected]