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beverins
01-14-2008, 09:43 AM
http://www.newtek.com/redcarpettour/

When I see shows like this, that completely and utterly exclude Lightwave from the tour (LIghtwave, as far as I know, it shown only ONCE A YEAR at Siggraph, and NOWHERE ELSE), then I can only assume that Newtek management consider Lightwave the "red-headed stepchild".

How to remedy this?

a) put Lightwave on the tour
b) give Lightwave its own tour

Steamthrower
01-14-2008, 10:27 AM
Very good point, neverko. I noticed that the ads in Cinefex for Lightwave have been dropped for the past two issues. I'm hoping that once 9.5 or the equivalent great new release comes out, they'll start giving it the hype again.

SplineGod
01-14-2008, 10:47 AM
I dont agree. LW has enough strong points that are worth showing. Its a product and like any other can be demonstrated in a proper way. One of the problems I see when I go to siggraph or other shows is that they have people giving lousy demonstrations or DAVE school work. I dont believe that student work is the most appropriate thing to be showing off to sell your software or stuff that makes LW look far worse then it is. I always hear ppl asking why Newtek is demonstrating what they do.

Steamthrower
01-14-2008, 11:07 AM
I really think that Newtek needs to get together a reel - an actual reel. With scenes from 300, BS:G, Star Wars, some high-profile commercials, along with some of the really nice arch viz stuff by Exception and Octacon and the rest...the demo reel compiled by the community was very nice but it still wasn't very descriptive of just how much LW can do.

*Pete*
01-14-2008, 11:14 AM
true...for demonstrating the capability of LW, high quality professional work is what is needed. from as Inigo said, movies like the 300 and such.

need to show what is possible in the right hands, even if we mortals will never become so good, it will take the blame of not achieving it from the product and place it on us.

Andyjaggy
01-14-2008, 11:14 AM
Agree. the 9.2 demo reel was nice, but there were still parts that weren't real "professional"

We all know Newtek marketing has had issues, apparently they are undergoing some serious changes at the moment, hopefully we'll see some improvements soon.

*Pete*
01-14-2008, 11:42 AM
we all know that we are judged by the worst image in our portfolio, and select the parts in the portfolio very carefully..NT has not been doing this lately (ever?), but lets hope it will change.

beverins
01-14-2008, 12:36 PM
Contrary to you, I think it's wise to downplay LightWave a little these days, while it's in this transitional state. LightWave is undergoing a lot of work and it'll probably be a while until NewTek has new animation tools and other significant advancements to show. I say, wait until they really have something to show, then push it like crazy. Now is not that time. I think it's smart.

That's fine, too. As long as they PUSH IT.

9 came out, then 9.2 and 9.3 and the only place they ever pushed it was in Siggraph. Maybe someone can show me shows and events where they do push Lightwave as the main attraction, instead of as an "oh yeah, we also have this thing that runs 3D Arsenal." I haven't actually seen mention of an event where the main topic is Lightwave outside of Siggraph, even when Newtek attend the anime conventions.

Also, it's not as if Lightwave is some sort of embarassment to the 3D community now. Play up its strengths and not the weaknesses, thats what shows like these are all about. And be prepared for the Tough Questions, and have Good Answers ready. There's plenty to like for people who are just getting into 3D. People who want to try 3D don't know your product is even there, you know.

To continue my rant a bit - I also noticed something (which I have ranted about in the past) when they do show Lightwave vs. these roadshows.

Siggraph - Lightwave! Lightwave! SpeedEdit! VT5! Lightwave! Lightwave! SpeedEdit! Lightwave! SpeedEdit! VT5! 3D Arsenal!

Roadshow / NAB - VT5! SpeedEdit! Tricaster! SpeedEdit! VT5! 3DArsenal! VT5! SpeedEdit! Speededit! Tricaster!

Notice a dissimilarity? In one show they show 80% Lightwave and 20% Video, while in other shows they show 90% Video, 10% Logo Maker and 0% Lightwave. It's that 0% that upsets me. Yes, 3D Arsenal shows the Lightwave interface, but people just think that you have a fancier version of Cool 3D. No, seriously, that's what people think.

I have no problem with showing the other products Newtek makes. But why are we diluting Lightwave in its ONE SHOW A YEAR and not showing Lightwave in other shows aside from being an interface to 3D Arsenal?

I still can't forgive them for their B&H Roadshow way. way back and not having a single person on hand that knew ANYTHING about Lightwave's new features at the time. 80% of the attendees were there to see the new LW. :bangwall: I guess that's why this latest roadshow avoids NYC now...

beverins
01-14-2008, 12:50 PM
I want to apologize for any harsh tones that might be inferred. I love Newtek, I think they are an amazing company that tries to do right by its customers. I know its monstrously hard to compete against Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, etc and still come out holding your head high.

I know its cliche, but I rant because I love. I rant because I see a marvelous program not getting the exposure I think it deserves. Lightwave is nothing to be ashamed of. People can rant and post about its shortcomings all day, but it doesn't change the fact that Lightwave is a seriously powerful program. By the way some people talk on these boards and other forums, you'd think it was on a level of Cool 3D or something. And it is this misconception that you have to fight, Newtek.

beverins
01-14-2008, 12:53 PM
Kinda spamming my own thread, talking to myself I guess (a sure sign of insanity!), but I wanted to clarify that I personally haven't seen any shows other than Siggraph where Lightwave is shown.

I hope to be proven wrong here.

ted
01-14-2008, 06:48 PM
From my perspective, I can understand only showing TriCaster on this tour.
It's a TriCaster Tour. :hey:

Not discounting any of the above claims RE; shows and such.
But if the tour covered all the new offerings by NewTek, the demonstrations and questions would be all over the place in a "2 hour tour". Right Gilligan, Skipper, oh yeh, Ginger and Maryanne? :D

beverins
01-14-2008, 08:18 PM
From my perspective, I can understand only showing TriCaster on this tour.
It's a TriCaster Tour.

I completely agree :-) I'm not saying the Tricaster should be diminished at all.

My beef is that there isn't a respective Lightwave tour. I believe the last one was in 2003, and they were paid seminars. OK, so there might not be much to show right now that's "world-beating"... if it has to wait till 9.5 or 10 for the stuff that makes Autodesk do a Spit-take over the amazing feature.. well, then so be it.

I think it would be very heartening to see Newtek actually promote the current version unashamedly, brazenly and powerfully... the old fashioned way just like they are doing with the Tricaster. City by city, inspiring the creative people who didn't know they had a possibility to communicate their vision via a company which understands their need for affordable creative tools that are every bit as professional and powerful as the "big boys".

Iain
01-15-2008, 04:35 AM
I don't see evidence of great LW work anywhere apart from the places only the users frequent. What good is that?

If Newtek keep waiting for further improvements before promoting LW, too many people will have lost interest.
They should be SHOUTING about what they did with 9.0 and more importantly 9.2 and they should stop shunning the exclusive access LW has to FPrime and Kray. That's a marketing tool other manufacturers exploit.

After that they can dangle the carrot of 'more to come'.

Titus
01-15-2008, 07:40 AM
I dont agree. LW has enough strong points that are worth showing.

I agree with you. I can remember SIGGRAPH 97, Maya wasn't even sold at that moment and everybody knew about the upcoming product.

Giving a constant low profile to LW hurts the product and its users. To others we're the underdogs, buyers of an old technology and this has to stop right now, because we have a good program and NewTek needs to change that perception (and improving LW at the same time).

Looking at the last couple of versions I think developement of other programs (Max and Maya) are slowing development, this is the best moment to take the lead.

jcupp
01-17-2008, 01:39 PM
I'll interject a little from the viewpoint of a dealer. The local dealer hosts these 'tours' so after spending real money on renting a hotel meeting room, paying for refreshments and schlepping a ton of equipment around we like a little return on investment.:D

A couple of TC sales will cover the costs, but we would have to sell many copies of Lightwave to even break even. Plus there are NEW TriCaster models out. I'm also pretty sure that in Indianapolis, for example, I'd be hard pressed to get enough potential new LW users in one place to make it worth NewTek's effort to fly someone up or mine in renting a room.

In large urban areas it might work but even where there are concentrations of 3D animators would you really get a bunch of 3DS or Maya users to show.

Titus
01-17-2008, 05:28 PM
A couple of TC sales will cover the costs, but we would have to sell many copies of Lightwave to even break even. Plus there are NEW TriCaster models out. I'm also pretty sure that in Indianapolis, for example, I'd be hard pressed to get enough potential new LW users in one place to make it worth NewTek's effort to fly someone up or mine in renting a room.


jcupp: That makes a lot of sense. LW pricing is a double edged sword, I think.

Safe Harbor
01-18-2008, 08:46 AM
Yup. Milwaukee is hardly the mecca of animation. Having a LW tour is just not cost effective for us. But TriCaster definitely is - it can draw in people from all types of businesses and budgets and it sells itself! :)