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SteelPicR
01-11-2008, 12:29 PM
I’ve been experiencing an issue where I am getting a black and white signal from the Y/C inputs on all odd numbered inputs and color on even numbered inputs. I spent the morning with my tech guy and this is what we found. Black and white signal on odd numbered inputs and color on even, BUT, if I go into the capture panel and switch the input to Microsoft DV, then the odd numbered inputs become color and the even numbered inputs become black and white, reversing the problem completely. This essentially rules out a hardware problem and indicates a problem in software.

We called NT support again and were asked to uninstall VT5 and reinstall the software. Out of all the years I have been working with computers, I have found that not one single time has the generic tech response “uninstall the software” been the answer to any problem. I have been able to work thru all of the other issues since installing VT5, thanks to the help from folks here on the forum, and I SURE hate to go back through all that again since the system seems very stable in it’s current state, with the exception of this particular issue.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what part of the software might be causing something like this? The help is much appreciated.

ted
01-11-2008, 10:17 PM
Robby, as much as I'll probably catch heck from my freinds in tech support, I gotta agree.
In the days of Play, Eric Pratt and Don-Adam James must have told me that 50 times. I finally made them come to my facility and they realized the problem wasn't mine! :D
God how I hate it when I get that answer. :devil:

I swear I heard someone else make this comment some time ago. I think it turned out to be a hardware problem after all. But maybe they will see this and confirm.

I wish you luck. You know, you could always re-install the software! :D

SteelPicR
01-11-2008, 11:19 PM
Thanks for the response Ted. I am by far not the most qualified to say for certain that hardware could not play a part in this problem. That’s why I had a qualified person here today to help with this. It is logical though that a hardware issue would not flip flop like this is doing. If certain channels of the board were incapable of producing a color signal, then it stands to reason that they would stay that way. It may very well be that I need to do a uninstall / reinstall but again, my experience as been that 100% of the time that tech people from various companies have told me to do that, it did not resolve the issue. It has also been my experience that tracking down the real cause is better and it’s usually something rather simple but a little hard to find…hence the answer from tech.

It’s kind of like my post about DF4…had it not been for good people here on the forum, I would have just been hung out to dry from tech, both from NT and Eyeon. Turns out all I needed was the .dll file for .rtv’s to be placed in the DF4 directory. It wasn’t until after the issue was resolved thru the forum that NT posted a resolution.

I’m not down on NT by any means. My journey has been a pleasant one for the most part, both with product and support. I just thought the issue deserved more than a generic response!

SBowie
01-12-2008, 06:56 AM
Having done a fair share of tech support, I'll add a comment in gentle defense of those that do.

Most 'non-obvious' issues are resolved by eliminating possibilities one by one. In that process, TS personnel cannot take anything for granted. I wish I had a buck for every time something dragged on a lot longer than necessary because someone omitted a step, even fudging responses to very specific questions, whether because they felt 'it can't be that simple' or they didn't know what the instruction or question meant and were embarrassed to admit it.

Once, after countless time consuming long distance calls trying to remotely troubleshoot flaky behavior from a SCSI array, I muttered 'Man, this really sounds your terminator is bad, but that was the first thing I asked you to check.' After a pregnant pause, the voice on the phone said 'What is a terminator, anyway?'

Just like you, the tech may suspect reinstalling is not the answer, but it's not just him giving you something to do while he goes on break. It crosses off a whole bunch of stuff as possibilities (the alternative being hunting up any number of obscure files and manually checking versions, for example.) You've eliminated a bunch of possibilities in one swat, and can move down the list with some confidence. And it takes, what - 10 minutes?

Of course, it probably won't help. ;)

CreatvGnius
01-12-2008, 03:17 PM
[QUOTE=SBowie]Having done a fair share of tech support, I'll add a comment in gentle defense of those that do.

Most 'non-obvious' issues are resolved by eliminating possibilities one by one. In that process, TS personnel cannot take anything for granted. I wish I had a buck for every time something dragged on a lot longer than necessary because someone omitted a step, even fudging responses to very specific questions, whether because they felt 'it can't be that simple' or they didn't know what the instruction or question meant and were embarrassed to admit it.QUOTE]

Well, well, well. I've been quiet about this:
I was experiencing the "no video signal at all on even-numbered Y/C inputs" to SX-8 with my VT card. Moreover, every attempt to have AUTO CONFIGURE go through its paces, resulted in failure to get the CHANNEL PHASE portion of AUTO CONFIG to work.

I had been very careful to check that the 3 DB-15 to DB-15 cables were properly attached on the VideoToaster end, while glancing carefully at the SX-8 end of same. Some rearranging of the project studio took place recently, so perhaps some cables were mixed up, I thought.

Surely, I discovered that the SX cables that were to connect to the 2nd and 3rd DB-15 connectors (named "VT4" and "VT3") on the SX- 8 had been inadvertently swapped, causing the problems.

Now, once the cables were properly oriented, a reboot of the host PC was required for AUTO CALIBRATION to work.

Lesson learned: Even when you think you didn't make changes on a particular part of your system -- especially if other measures failed, then check anyway: perhaps someone *else* wreaked some havoc with your system.:hey:
-PeterG

SteelPicR
01-12-2008, 08:03 PM
whether because they felt 'it can't be that simple' or they didn't know what the instruction or question meant and were embarrassed to admit it.

I can't eat pride. I can however feed my family with the proceeds made from a working system. I have only been doing this for 5 years so for me to think I could master everything about production, shooting, tech issues and so on in that amount of time would be a bit unreasonable. I'm here to learn, hopefully get some help, and maybe contribute something whenever possible.

Your right Steve, it doesn't take that long to reinstall VT and the extra stuff needed in Aura, LiveSet... I just hate to mess with what is good chasing the bad and from what I've read in some of the other post , it doesn't seem to be helping some of those folks either...not to say it wouldn't in this case. I guess I might be a little jaded over the reinstall answer from tech so many times only to find out I still had to track down the problem myself. I just thought I would give this a little time to see if someone might pop up with a solution. It's not affecting my post production, (with one execption), and I don't have a live switching gig until Feb...so far.

The execption is that the DV firewire quality is poor when viewed as a switcher source compared to viewing the same source thru Y/C...(please see my earlier post about switching to the DV input). Could this somehow be related? Still hoping, still open for suggestions.

SteelPicR
01-12-2008, 09:00 PM
I guess I could use some spelling and typing lessons as well...LOL:)

m4a2000
01-13-2008, 11:18 PM
I just ran into a problem with my VT5. TS told me to update a drive and reinstall VT5. Did it and still have half the problem... I know the drive did it's job because I did a test before the reinstall. I have a feeling it's something simple, but I know that I'll never find out what the problem is. Boss told me to do a FULL reinstall(Win, Update, VT5) over the next weekend no matter what... Some times I hate my job...

SteelPicR
01-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Here is the latest to update this thread. I decided to concede and go ahead, (against my better judgment), with the uninstall / reinstall of VT5 as advised by tech support. Results…no change except more lost time. The fact that the color signal will flip flop on odd and even BOB inputs by going into the capture panel and selecting the DV input still has me leaning towards something software related. When I first reinstalled VT5 today, I couldn’t get the inputs to flip flop…until going into the preferences panel and enabling my SDI card. Very strange?????????

Tech support suggested removing the VT card and sending it in…which is going to shut me completely down for whatever amount of time that takes and there is still no real assurance that the card is the problem. In defense of tech support, in my last conversation with them, they did offer to speak to engineering before I take the card out. I know this is a strange and uncommon problem but I sure could use some help. A week or so of lost income is not a good option for me at any time…especially if we don’t know for sure what the problem is. I know…get a back up system. Got one sitting here and waiting for the $$$ to get another VT card!

kleima
01-21-2008, 09:16 PM
Can you Auto-calibrate? Do you have SX-8 or SX-84? If it is SX-8, you may need a small update file to make Auto-cal work correctly. If you can Auto-cal, this may not be the issue. Are you using S-video, component, or composite? It is possible the problem lies in the SX-8, not the card, or the software. I had a similar problem with bad color that would show up suddenly on a component input. Sometimes it was fine, and suddenly it would switch to the ugly color. It was resolved by sending the SX-8 in .
BTW, Newtek usually repairs hardware in one day. They will also match whatever shipping you use. So, if you overnight it to them, they will overnight the repaired hardware back to you. Conceivably you could have it sent in and back in three days.

SteelPicR
01-21-2008, 10:24 PM
I did the auto calibrate. It seems to run fine. I've got the SX-8 and VT2 card. The problem shows up on the S-video(Y/C) inputs. Composite is fine and I can't test the component right now. Everything was tested when this system was built and VT4 was installed. The only changes to the system have been the upgrade to VT5 and a few files for Aura...and the box is not on the Net. What gets me is the channels in question will output color by making the change I mentioned in the capture panel. When I make that change, the even number channels go black and white, reversing the problem. Thanks for the tips.

kleima
01-21-2008, 10:43 PM
That sounds weird. I suggest making a bug report.

B. Schuster
01-22-2008, 03:25 PM
you may need a small update file to make Auto-cal work correctly.

kleima,
You mentioned a update file, My VT-5 with the SX-8 will not auto-cal. It will start, but does not finish even with running overnight.

If there was an update file I would like to try it.

I haven’t been able to edit since the first of the year.:confused:

kleima
01-22-2008, 03:54 PM
Email John Perkins for the update file: jperkins at newtek dot com

Note: There is no patch. I think this is a misunderstanding.
All cases that I am aware of are malfunctioning SX-8's or bad cables, not software. - jperkins

Gordon
02-01-2008, 01:22 PM
I did the auto calibrate. It seems to run fine. ....
Did you try swapping cables VT3 & VT4 as PeterG suggested. That fixed his problem which seemed to be very similar to yours. My experience is that when VT3 & VT4 are swapped that there are a couple of other problems so I doubt that is the answer, but it only takes a very short time to do so.

While you're moving cables, check to make sure that there are no bent, missing or extra pins. They look like standard VGA cables, but I think that pins 12 & 15 has been removed from the VT3 and VT4 cables. (BTW, the SX-84 uses standard VGA cables, pin 9 missing, for all but the Video In cable which has all pins including pin 9).