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Tony3d
01-10-2008, 01:53 PM
Any word yet on SAS Lite, and UB?

Steamthrower
01-10-2008, 02:09 PM
I need to know, desperately...because if Saslite doesn't work on UB within the next month or two then I'm going to have to be forced to work on Windows for a certain project; and I don't want to have to do that...

Tony3d
01-14-2008, 05:34 AM
I sure wish we would hear something, because I really want to buy the new Mac Pro.

Phil
01-14-2008, 07:43 AM
I doubt it will be brought to UB LW, so it's either Boot Camp or the unsupported, slower CFM LW for the time being. I don't know if TrueHair has a UB version, but I've not seen a realistic looking hair or fur render from that product yet.

Darth Mole
01-15-2008, 07:18 AM
My two pence:

I've been a supporter of Worley's sofware since way back (LW 5.6 to be precise). But this lack of communication - at least to give his users a progress update - I find deeply annoying.

I find it almost impossible to believe he's not working on UB versions - after all, that would be a huge proportion of his users that would be left in the cold, and a huge proprotion of future customers gone at a stroke.

No doubt he could continue with a Windows'-only user-base but that would be crazy after all the work he's done to make Mac versions in the first place.

I hope it's a mixture of LW UB still being abit of a moving target, mixed in with a desire to update the software at the same time (Sasquatch is WELL overdue...)

JeffrySG
01-15-2008, 08:07 AM
My two pence:

I've been a supporter of Worley's sofware since way back (LW 5.6 to be precise). But this lack of communication - at least to give his users a progress update - I find deeply annoying.

I find it almost impossible to believe he's not working on UB versions - after all, that would be a huge proportion of his users that would be left in the cold, and a huge proprotion of future customers gone at a stroke.

No doubt he could continue with a Windows'-only user-base but that would be crazy after all the work he's done to make Mac versions in the first place.

I hope it's a mixture of LW UB still being abit of a moving target, mixed in with a desire to update the software at the same time (Sasquatch is WELL overdue...)

That sounds good/logical to me... but if you need something in the next month or two I wouldn't count on seeing anything by then, inigo07!

Steamthrower
01-15-2008, 08:45 AM
Right, I'm probably going to have to get with my colleagues and find another hair system to purchase. It's too bad really. Basically we'll have to render in 9.3 because of all the other 9.3 renderer improvements...but still, it's a pain in the neck.

littlewaves
01-15-2008, 09:21 AM
is there ANY other hair system available for UB?
I'm kind of holding out for a UB Fiber Factory as I agree that truehair looks like it still has a long way to go before it can generate anything approaching the same quality and I'm pretty sure it's not UB either.

That aside we really ought to be given some indication by Newtek of when we will get the ADVERTISED feature that is saslite
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/features.php

Tony3d
01-15-2008, 09:53 AM
I feel since Newtek promoted SAS Lite as a feature in Lightwave, they need to step up to the bat, and produce their own solution. Something as important as fur, hair, and grass should be written into Lightwave so this sort of thing never happens again. I for one am very disappointed.

Steamthrower
01-15-2008, 09:59 AM
I disagree with that. I think that the enormous amount of man-hours needed to develop a hair/fur system could be better spent on (as is always said) CA, rigging, Modeler/Layout integration, etc.

Saslite and Sasquatch work incredibly well. I think that it'd be a misplaced priority to go off on a tangent and develop their own; however I don't deny that they should do all they can to get it integrated back.

littlewaves
01-15-2008, 10:48 AM
While I do agree that the CA stuff etc needs to be improved I do think that Newtek has a basic duty to ensure that Mac users get the same advertised features of the current version as Windows users get.

I'm afraid using the CFM version just simply doesn't cut it (especially when it's been stated that the only supported version of LW on the mac is the UB)
The disadvantages of rendering under rosetta are just too much.

Running the windows version under bootcamp is maybe a possibility but isn't exactly ideal and I don't really want to buy a copy of windows just so I can use saslite (although I have considered this) especially if some UB solution is in the works with either Newtek or Worley but as they don't tell us anything...

Stingslang
01-15-2008, 12:34 PM
could someone give me a link for TureHair

akrantz
01-16-2008, 11:11 AM
What I love (read with sarcasm) is how Newtek doesn't respond to this thread (or others like it). It's kind of like a peacock sticking it's head in the ground and thinking no one sees them. Sadly, this is a rampant problem for Mac users since the Intel switch and Newtek is not the only company advertising a product that does not do what it states. Swift3D V5 for Mac advertises a Flash CS3 importer that isn't UB and doesnt work, like Newtek they have yet to respond to users on their forums. Daz 3D Carrara also does this with their AE CS3 plug-in, again it doesn't work for the UB version but they claim it does and have yet to respond to their forums. What is most unfortunate, is the utterly baffling lack of understanding of the user base. These companies apparently have no respect for us all. It would take SO LITTLE effort to simply post something along the lines of "We want you to know we are addressing this, please be patient" and that would make ALL THE DIFFERENCE. My advice to all of you is to find a product that works and leave companies that could care less about even responding to your questions much less resolving them behind. Maya, C4D, Vue6.5XStream, all of these products are UB and work very well.

Steamthrower
01-16-2008, 11:19 AM
What I love (read with sarcasm) is how Newtek doesn't respond to this thread (or others like it). It's kind of like a peacock sticking it's head in the ground and thinking no one sees them.
Nope. I am not leaving NewTek for these very reasons that you bring forth. NewTek does react and respond to complaints brought up in the forums very frequently. Chilton has a reputation here for great customer interaction. I don't know if you've had any experience with software companies like Adobe or Autodesk, but they give nowhere near the customer support that NewTek does.


My advice to all of you is to find a product that works and leave companies that could care less about even responding to your questions much less resolving them behind.
Again, nope. Chuck, William Vaughan, BeeVee, Paul Lara, Chilton...all of these guys are Newtek folks and they all have post counts of over 1,000 or 2,000.

You can't say they don't respond. You can't say that at all. Try getting those kind of responses from any other major 3D software developers.

I don't like my UB installation being crippled any more than anyone else. But I don't blindly gripe about it.

akrantz
01-16-2008, 11:34 AM
Meh. Love them if you want it's no skin off my back. If you have a personal affinity for the company or its developers I hope it keeps you warm at night. The bottom line is there are three facts here: 1. The product doesn't work as advertised (which is lying). 2. They have not responded at all as to why and 3. There are competing products out there that do in fact offer these features and more for UB Intel mac users. While your busy defending them I can be busy using a product that does what it claims.

RonGC
01-16-2008, 11:38 AM
I have to agree with inigo08 on this. NT is on the boards a lot and do reply, just because they don't happen to see your post immediately does not mean they don't care. This is a very active forum with a lot of posts going on, i can spend hours a day and never read every single post here.

Give them a bit of a break, they have been very helpful on the Mac front and if we are not seeing a lot of Chilton lately thats a good sign, it means he is working hard on the next LW software update.

I too would like to see LW instantly morph into the ultimate Perfect 3D package, but know that will happen only in my dreams. Good things take time, bugs are easy and quick to program in.

No offense but my 2 cents Canadian.

Ron

Steamthrower
01-16-2008, 01:51 PM
Meh. Love them if you want it's no skin off my back. If you have a personal affinity for the company or its developers I hope it keeps you warm at night. The bottom line is there are three facts here: 1. The product doesn't work as advertised (which is lying). 2. They have not responded at all as to why and 3. There are competing products out there that do in fact offer these features and more for UB Intel mac users. While your busy defending them I can be busy using a product that does what it claims.
If another product works for you, great. Lightwave has been able to serve me with everything I've been able to throw at it: and that's been some major stuff. Dynamics, voxels, animation, outstanding rendering, superb modeling...

NewTek makes no claims to say that UB works perfectly. As a matter of fact they've always admitted that it's not perfect yet. Bugs are a totally different issue than lying.

littlewaves
01-16-2008, 02:28 PM
saslite being missing from the UB isn't a bug. It's an advertised feature that just isn't there in the much trumpeted UB and as far as we know from what we've been told it may never be available.

I just wish they'd tell us something that's all. If they say there's no chance of saslite or an alternative heading to the UB during the 9.x cycle then at least I'll be able to decide for myself if I put up without that feature or switch packages rather than just wondering if a solution is round the corner or even in the pipeline at all.

Steamthrower
01-16-2008, 03:46 PM
If Saslite isn't going to be available in UB, then I'd hazard a guess that it's Worley's problem, not NewTek's.

medicalart
01-16-2008, 04:32 PM
Sadly, this is a rampant problem for Mac users since the Intel switch and Newtek is not the only company advertising a product that does not do what it states.

For me the problem starts with Apple understating performance issues with Rosetta. Ironically Bootcamp works quite well, despite the fact that is a beta release. Basically, everything always is and always will be beta for every computer program regardless of platform. I know if I enjoy a brief period where everything works, right around the corner awaits a new release of something that will screw things up.

I've had pretty good luck with bootcamp running Lightwave on my iMac. I back up all content on an external Fantom drive which (so far) boots up properly on both platforms. PC users have a whole lot more 3rd party plug-ins which I was never able to use on the Mac. On the other hand, I actually like the more comprehensive menus taking shape on UB.

UB performance is lacking at the moment. I wouldn't start a complex project on it right now. I will be back on the Mac side when the performance issues are ironed out, but for now, I'm working on the PC side for the most part.

littlewaves
01-16-2008, 06:09 PM
If Saslite isn't going to be available in UB, then I'd hazard a guess that it's Worley's problem, not NewTek's.

If Newtek advertise Saslite as a standard feature of Lightwave (which they do) then it's Newtek's problem

Steamthrower
01-16-2008, 06:46 PM
Following is an email that Worley Labs sent to me.


Hi Gil ,

We're working on UB versions of all the plugins( but not SasLite ) and the Leopard fix for FPrime and a lot of progress has been made. But at this point we can't predict when they'll be ready. We'll make an announcement on our website as soon as more information is available.

I'm hazarding a guess that Saslite is going to be dropped for 9.3 UB. I'm sure NT will tell us when that's official.

Puguglybonehead
01-16-2008, 07:48 PM
I emailed Binary Arts a while ago, asking about whether FiberFactory IV was going to be ported to Mac and they said they were working on a UB version. No word on when it's due though.

RonGC
01-16-2008, 07:49 PM
Hmmm... since Saslite is just a stripped down version of Sas perhaps after they finish the rewrite of Sas they will release another stripped down version for lightwave UB. One can hope.

I can see them prioritizing the Main plugins first after all that is where their income comes from.

Ron

littlewaves
01-17-2008, 03:06 AM
I emailed Binary Arts a while ago, asking about whether FiberFactory IV was going to be ported to Mac and they said they were working on a UB version. No word on when it's due though.

I got a similar response in September. I guess we just have to keep our fingers crossed that they still think it's worth it.

Ultimately we mac users probably just have to face the harsh reality that 3D apps will never get the same focus as they do in the PC community. so many of the major 3D apps aren't even available on Mac.

I'm a bit surprised Apple haven't either bought someone up or started their own venture into it. They've done that very successfully in other areas such as video and audio

Tony3d
01-17-2008, 04:52 AM
I had asked Newtek about this a long while back, and here was the reply.......

"Management is in communication with Worley Labs regularly, and currently has this matter under review will be discussing options for SASLite for 64-bit and UB." That was months ago. So....... What happened!

littlewaves
01-17-2008, 06:17 AM
I guess they reviewed it, discussed it and abandoned it.

I think it's time to give up the ghost as far as Saslite UB is concerned and start praying to the God of Fiber Factory for salvation.

Admittedly that means paying extra for a hair/fur solution when we were supposed to get one built in but it's cheaper than switching to another 3D package and besides it's not like we have many options on the Mac anyway.

Does Modo have hair? couldn't see anything about it on their site
C4D has a hair module but it's an extra (as are many of the pro features)
Maya is just too pricey for me in this lifetime.

Anyone know of any solutions I'm missing?

littlewaves
01-17-2008, 06:19 AM
I guess the solutions I'm missing are "buy windows and run bootcamp" or for that matter "buy a PC"

Puguglybonehead
01-17-2008, 12:38 PM
I guess the solutions I'm missing are "buy windows and run bootcamp" or for that matter "buy a PC"

The thought has crossed my mind. There is an inexpensive hair plugin for XSI, that even works with Foundation (from what I understand). It's almost enough to make me switch to Windows.

Tony3d
01-17-2008, 01:31 PM
I just called Newtek, and they said it's all in Worleys hands now. Call them and there is no answer. Next week I am seriously looking into Maya!

Stingslang
01-17-2008, 08:50 PM
yeah maya would be nice but it costs an arm and a leg

Tony3d
01-18-2008, 06:30 AM
Does Cinema 4d have a fur and hair solution?

Tony3d
01-18-2008, 07:41 AM
Looks like Cinema 4d has a great hair and fur module. I'm going to look into this.

akrantz
01-18-2008, 10:24 AM
For me the problem starts with Apple understating performance issues with Rosetta. Ironically Bootcamp works quite well, despite the fact that is a beta release. Basically, everything always is and always will be beta for every computer program regardless of platform. I know if I enjoy a brief period where everything works, right around the corner awaits a new release of something that will screw things up.

I've had pretty good luck with bootcamp running Lightwave on my iMac. I back up all content on an external Fantom drive which (so far) boots up properly on both platforms. PC users have a whole lot more 3rd party plug-ins which I was never able to use on the Mac. On the other hand, I actually like the more comprehensive menus taking shape on UB.

UB performance is lacking at the moment. I wouldn't start a complex project on it right now. I will be back on the Mac side when the performance issues are ironed out, but for now, I'm working on the PC side for the most part.

I have also had good luck running LW on BootCamp the problem for me is that I don't have the other supporting applications I use for windows because not all software manufactures give you a working copy for both systems, which essentially means I either buy another "windows" copy or reboot all the time to switch OS's. Obviously neither of these is ideal. I tried using Parallells but it couldn't be worse. Has anyone tried WMWare Fusion?

Stingslang
01-18-2008, 12:28 PM
what was wrong with Parallels? I have had pretty good experience with it.

littlewaves
01-18-2008, 05:49 PM
do things like render speed compare well in parallels?

Steamthrower
01-21-2008, 07:39 AM
do things like render speed compare well in parallels?

No way. Parallels for anything graphic design related is utter crap. Photoshop, video editing, OpenGL, DirectX, animation, modeling...it was a waste of my $80.

Puguglybonehead
01-21-2008, 04:57 PM
Looks like Cinema 4d has a great hair and fur module. I'm going to look into this.

True, but Cinema 4D also costs an-arm-and-a-leg, especially with the Hair module added in. That, plus updates for C4D are a fortune as well. And, the renderer isn't anywhere near as nice as Lightwave's. I used to use C4D, and dropped it, in favor of Lightwave, for all the reasons I mentioned.

Personally, I'm going to hold out for the UB of FiberFactory. I can tell it will be worth the wait.

radiancemedia
01-22-2008, 04:39 PM
Do you want to know who has a great hair solution? And a great physics solution? Blender 3d. Guess how much it costs...
That's right. Nothing. Check out the massive number of free tutorials and the wiki manual. Simply awesome. In particular, check out the hair tutorial, under particles.
This program is doing 3d the way Newtek should have done 3d 5 years ago. Blender is perhaps only a little bit behind Maya, and certainly ahead of them in many ways. Integration, integration, integration. Oh, and multithreaded, too.

Steamthrower
01-23-2008, 07:12 AM
Integration, integration, integration. Oh, and multithreaded, too.

And complete interface weirdness, weirdness, weirdness...there's a reason why no major studio and the vast majority of any small CG studio don't use Blender as a primary app in their workflow.

Stingslang
01-23-2008, 11:55 AM
are there any studios that use blender at all? I actually rather like the interface once you get used to it. It can be strange at first, but in point of fact it's more intuitive. There must be other reasons as to why nobody uses it.

Steamthrower
01-23-2008, 11:59 AM
Mainly (from what I've read) it's because it just doesn't flow well into a pipeline. And a major reason is because the interface is so different: when you're using other apps like Photoshop, FCP, Lightwave, etc., which all use fairly standard GUIs, then using Blender in the midst of all that is pretty confusing.

Also, it's open source, which though that is good for budget concerns, it also means that there's no paid support, and upgrades aren't remotely certain. There's also a lack of third party development for it it seems to me.

akrantz
01-23-2008, 02:48 PM
No way. Parallels for anything graphic design related is utter crap. Photoshop, video editing, OpenGL, DirectX, animation, modeling...it was a waste of my $80.

agreed.

Stingslang
01-23-2008, 06:43 PM
im sorry if this seems silly, but what do you get out of paid support?

medicalart
01-23-2008, 09:22 PM
I assume they mean tech support for the product. Someone who's being paid to answer questions from users, like us.

Stingslang
01-23-2008, 09:54 PM
there is a forum though for blender, and usually it's pretty good. I do however, see the point of the interface. However, if you can learn to live with that, Blender is extremely powerful, and you can pretty much do anything in it.

The thing that really got be about blender was how slow the renderer is. Lightwave is much faster and more memory efficient. They're developing a plugin to output rib data, but it's not gonna be out for a while.

Stingslang
01-24-2008, 10:13 AM
Something else I should add is that Lightwave's modeler is way ahead of Blenders in terms of usability. It's ture the Blender has some modeling features (nurbs sculpting etc) that lightwave doesn't but you'll be able to model much more quickly and efficiently in Lightwave that blender.

Stingslang
01-25-2008, 12:32 PM
does anyone know when true hair is coming out?