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pumeco
01-09-2008, 02:31 PM
For too long now, I've been considering getting one of those Wacom Tablets.

I keep seeing them in the superstore, but never actually bring myself to buy one. I used to think it would be something that would lose it's novelty and get packed away and forgotten about. Now though, I'm beggining to think I might have been a bit off on that one.

What's sparked my interest again, is two things really. I saw a really nice looking WACOM last week, cheap enough, and a new model from the looks of things. That, and the fact that I use ZBrush - and hear all the time what an amazing tool these things are. My problem though is that most of the time, the praise is directed at those fancy high-end models, and to be honest, being only a hobbyist at the moment doesn't really encourage me to part with large amounts of cash for something I might not even like.

Anyway, this new Wacom was called "BAMBOO", and from what I've seen on their website, it's new, and comes in three variants. The thing is, according to their website; the best looking one (the black one simply called BAMBOO), is suited mainly to writing, while it seems the lesser-looking models are suited to painting etc.

It seems wrong somehow, and I was wondering if the software packages (which I couldn't care less about) are any indication of what they're 'really' capable of. I like the black one "BAMBOO", and was wondering if any of you use one, and if it is any less suitable than those cheaper-looking "FUN" models. If it turns out that the BAMBOO model is ok, I'll definately buy it (it's so cheap though - that's what worries me), and if I feel I can get along with these things, then I'd go for a high-end model later.

So, what do you think? ...Anyone got one? ...Anyone use it with ZBrush etc? ...Is it a realistic proposition?

pumeco
01-09-2008, 02:50 PM
Here's a link to the model I'm interested in (the first one in the video) :
http://www.wacom.eu/bamboo/?lang=en

Mike_RB
01-09-2008, 03:13 PM
bamboo is the low end replacement to the graphire line. Intuos is the professional line.

BigHache
01-09-2008, 03:19 PM
I had an older 4x5 Graphire a couple of years back and it served it's purpose well. I'm using a 6x8 Intuos 2 now and it keeps me company daily.

If you need that tool then I recommend getting even one of the low-end Wacoms. One of the differences between tablets (besides size) are the levels of pressure sensitivity. I think if you get a small one, you'll get into it, and grow into a larger one.

gerry_g
01-09-2008, 03:20 PM
Have an old Intuos 2 for work and a Bamboo down in the lounge (well did have till my ten year old niece pinched it for her Mac Mini), still while we had it I was able to make a comparison. The bamboo is very nice, ultra small footprint easy to accommodate on the desktop next to a keyboard, functions almost identically to the Intuos, it's main drawback is that compared to the bigger tablets it lacks sensitivity, not that it's unusable just that if your used to better you'll notice. If this is all you can afford and you want to try one go for it but if you've got the wonga get a series 3 professional one

CMT
01-09-2008, 03:23 PM
Here's a link to a comparison of Bamboo and Intuos. I couldn't find one that included Graphire. But from owning a Graphire previously, it has very similar features.

http://www.wacom.com/bambootablet/compare.cfm

I used a Graphire for quite a while and was very happy with it. I used it for full scale illustrations and sculpting with ZBrush 2. I only bought my 6x8 Intuos after my Graphire pen went bad (after about 5 years) and decided I wanted to to get a bigger pad anyway. But I imagine that the Bamboo might be a good option for someone who doesn't want to spend a lot, but will work with your graphics apps.

AbnRanger
01-09-2008, 03:31 PM
See what you can find a used Intuos 3 or 2 on Ebay...electronics usually depreciate dramatically, so you could get a good deal there, most likely.

pumeco
01-09-2008, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.

There's a few things I'm unsure about. First, how does resolution translate with these things? I mean, my current monitor is 1440 pixels accross, and to move the cursor from one side of the screen to the other in one movement - my mouse covers more area than the area of a small tablet.

Would that be a problem using a pen?

Also, when you run out of space with a mouse, you simply lift it off the surface, move it over, and put it down again. Is this how it works with the pen, or is each sensor under the tablet locked to each pixel on the screen?

One last thing I don't understand (looking at the INTUOS3 6X11), is why on earth you have to change nibs on it. What difference does a felt nib or standard nib make when the media is actually on the screen?

I'll admit, on closer inspection, the lower pressure levels of the BAMBOO makes me think it might not be so clever for use with ZBrush after all. I like the INTUOS3 6X11, and the price is ok, but I'm curious about why it has to have three nib types.

As for going second-hand and getting a better model, that's something I gave-up many years ago unfortunately. I used to buy my synth's secondhand, two of 'em turned-out to be faulty. I've never bought anything second-hand ever since, and never will unless it's something classic that can't be bought new.

Greenlaw
01-09-2008, 05:04 PM
There's a few things I'm unsure about. First, how does resolution translate with these things? I mean, my current monitor is 1440 pixels accross, and to move the cursor from one side of the screen to the other in one movement - my mouse covers more area than the area of a small tablet.

It works quite well. My laptop's screen res is 1920 and with the Intuos 3 6x11, it tracks perfectly (this model is meant for use with wide display panels.) Basically, the tablet's software allows you to scale the tablet area to fit the proportions of your screen, so it's essentially a one-to-one match of your screen. This is the preferred way to use it but it's also optional.

I wish the Intuos 3 came with a transparent overlay though--for some reason, it comes with a gray opaque one, which makes it useless for tracing. You can purchase a clear overly if you want one but it's a bit expensive.


One last thing I don't understand (looking at the INTUOS3 6X11), is why on earth you have to change nibs on it. What difference does a felt nib or standard nib make when the media is actually on the screen?

The nibs are not necessary but they are nice. The Intuos 3 comes with standard mylar nibs, a rubber nib, and a spring nib (it literally has a metal spring in it.) The rubber nib feels right if you're simulating a felt tip pen as it offers more friction than mylar. The spring nib feels more right for pens (i.e., a crow quill) or brushes because it has more 'give'. The nibs don't change how the tablet works but it gives the artist different tactile responses of the stylus. (FWIW, I like the spring nib.)


I'll admit, on closer inspection, the lower pressure levels of the BAMBOO makes me think it might not be so clever for use with ZBrush after all. I like the INTUOS3 6X11, and the price is ok, but I'm curious about why it has to have three nib types.

You are correct, the higher number of levels makes a big difference, especially if you can draw or paint with a light touch.

BTW, the Intuos has programmable buttons and touch strips, which is great in certain programs. For example, you could set one to scale a brush and the other to change brush pressure. You can have different setups for each program you use. I love this feature.

I used to own a Graphire a few years ago. It was fine but I found it too easy to wear out and break the USB cord. I don't recommended the Graphire (now Bamboo, I guess) if you have to transport it everyday. The Intuos 3 is a bit sturdier, but even so, I wish they paid a little more attention to how the cord is attached; it could still be more durable for my daily usage.

I love my Intuos 3, but now I have my eye on the new Cintiq 12W. Drool!

Hope this info helps.

DRG

pumeco
01-09-2008, 05:30 PM
It helps a lot, cheers mate :thumbsup:

You're using the exact same model, and you sound pleased with it so that's good. It's a relief about the nibs, I was beginning to think it was because they might be so weak that different strengths are needed for different people or something like that - lol

Looks like I'll be going for an INTUOS3 6X11 then :)

As for that CINTIQ 12W you're drooling over, when/if you get it, let me know if it can double as a touch-screen (by finger) monitor for a PC. That would make for a pretty useful tool in VST design if it could (touch-screen softsynths etc).

Again, thanks all.

monovich
01-09-2008, 05:41 PM
I've hated wacoms and been annoyed by watching people use them for years.

Then I tried Modo and it seemed geared towards tablets because of its painting and sculpting and its pressure sensitivity, so I got one.

Long story short, I'm totally sold now. I still use a mouse 70% of the time because I'm faster at it at most things, but for painting and PS work, Wacom rules in a lot of areas and has helped me improve in areas I didn't know I needed to.

If you haven't played with the pseudo dynamic brushes with a pressure sensitive pen tablet, you've never used Photoshop, it rules!

-SF

p.s. I got the Intuos 5x7, and don't have any wishes for a bigger size. I like my movements to be somewhat "magnified" on my screen (like a fast mouse tracking speed), so it works great. Bigger may be better, but not for me.

pumeco
01-09-2008, 05:52 PM
I've hated wacoms and been annoyed by watching people use them for years.

Then I tried Modo and it seemed geared towards tablets because of its painting and sculpting and its pressure sensitivity, so I got one.

Long story short, I'm totally sold now. I still use a mouse 70% of the time because I'm faster at it at most things, but for painting and PS work, Wacom rules in a lot of areas and has helped me improve in areas I didn't know I needed to.

If you haven't played with the pseudo dynamic brushes with a pressure sensitive pen tablet, you've never used Photoshop, it rules!

-SF

p.s. I got the Intuos 5x7, and don't have any wishes for a bigger size. I like my movements to be somewhat "magnified" on my screen (like a fast mouse tracking speed), so it works great. Bigger may be better, but not for me.
Interesting you should say that actually...

I was just looking at some of the photos of the bigger models and thinking to myself - they could become a problem in a way. What I mean is; with a small tablet I suppose you could hold it in one hand quite comfortably and need only small wrist movements with the pen in the other. But maybe the bigger tablets might be compromised by the lower part of your hand accidentally touching it while you work on the upper edge of the image.

Food for thought, that's for sure.

PixelDust
01-09-2008, 05:59 PM
Nope, the Cintiqs aren't touch-sensitive - you have to use the stylus. However, there are touch strips on either side that you can control with your fingers. They can be set to control different functions in your software. Hope that helps!



As for that CINTIQ 12W you're drooling over, when/if you get it, let me know if it can double as a touch-screen (by finger) monitor for a PC. That would make for a pretty useful tool in VST design if it could (touch-screen softsynths etc).

Again, thanks all.

Exception
01-09-2008, 06:06 PM
I've had oh... 6 wacoms now...
From the ultrapads to the pen partners to the graphires to the intuos3 on my desk now.

Here's all you need to know:

- The technology of these are all exactly the same, give or take a little bit of accuracy that you are really not likely to even notice (pressure levels, resolution, etc)
- The professional line (currently called Intuos3) has features enabled that the others do not have, that may or may not be useful to you
- the size of the tablet is what is likely to impact you the most.
- Wacom's patented technology has not changed one bit since 15 years ago. New models just have tiny little modifications. The finger strips on the intuos3 for instance, handy but not necessary. My old old Ultrapad of 10 years ago had virtually the exact same specs. they just bring out new models to justify the cost. Get a good second hand one if you can.

My recommendation is to get at least a 6x8 (A5) sized tablet. Get the cheapest one of that size and you'll most likely be very happy. You will probably not get tilt support, but I've never used that much.

Greenlaw
01-09-2008, 06:06 PM
I like the 6x11, but it *is* kind of big. Overall, it's actually 16.5 by 10.3 inches, which makes it too big for most computer bags and many backpacks
(it just barely fits in my backpack.) Even so, I woudn't want to be that much smaller--the drawing area is just about right for me. I still feel that the traditional 6x8 was more practical and comfortable size, but the format isn't right for widescreens. It's too bad there isn't a smaller widescreen Intuos 3 available.

For me personally, anything smaller than a 6x8 is too small though. I think my hand would cramp up trying to draw or paint that small. That's just my opinion though.

DRG

Greenlaw
01-09-2008, 06:21 PM
You will probably not get tilt support, but I've never used that much.

I use the tilt feature because I create concept art using natural media programs like Painter (for example, this feature can make an airbrush behave more realistically,) but I don't think it's particularly useful in anything else. Something to keep in mind though, if you use a lot of paint programs that support this feature.

DRG

RedBull
01-09-2008, 06:38 PM
So, what do you think? ...Anyone got one? ...Anyone use it with ZBrush etc? ...Is it a realistic proposition?

I don't think for the price they are bad, and for ZB it should work okay, Not many programs support Tilt, so it's only pressure that gets used in 3D programs like Modo or ZBrush, Mudbox. And basically any pressure is better than the mouse you be using without one.

I use an 6x11 Intuos3, I used a Wacom 12x12 for a longtime and it was just plain too big, I could likely get away with smaller than 6x11 but it's good enough.

pilF
01-10-2008, 03:40 AM
Using cintiq 21 UX and intuos 2 alongside a mouse. Both tablets have realy increased productivity, especially the cintiq, though the 1600 x 1200 res is a bit too limited. Could combine it with a small extra lcd and a small tablet as extra realestate for the tools. Cintiq works faster compared to intuos since you do not have to disconnect hand eye coordination. Prefer working on the cintiq with lw and ive seen a newer hd version of the screen @ 2000 USD. Worth the money I'd say.

cresshead
01-10-2008, 04:09 AM
i have a wacom bamboo medium and use it for zbrush3.1, tv paint and art rage on my quadcore with 24" monitor running at 1920x1200 no problem.

works great with z brush btw.

there's a bunch of tools you can use t set up how you want to run the tablet
as well, esp if you run 2 screens and only want 1 to be for the tablet etc.

it's a great tablet btw and i bought mine from amazon it ships with photoshop elements for mac AND pc plus art rage for mac AND pc...all in!

my advice is to get the bundel deal rather than just the tablet on it's own

pumeco
01-10-2008, 03:10 PM
Big-time thank's to y'all :)

Well, I did it - I bought a tablet today. And most amazingly, for once everything seems to have turned out ok. I'm sure when I tell you what model I went for, you'll all think I'm an idiot - but I actually made the decision after quite a lot of thinking.

Right ...OK ...Ready for this? ...Yes? ...You sure about that?

Awww alright then - I bought a BAMBOO - and the lowest, cheapest, darn right ugliest version at that (BAMBOO ONE). Now before any of you goes thinking I'm an idiot who totally ignored your advice, I assure you that the exact opposite is true. It's because of your advice I'm the owner of a BAMBOO ONE ;)

Here's why (mainly for the benefit of other noobs considering a tablet) :

It's clear (and obvious really), that the INTUOS stuff is the domain of something my skills don't justify at the moment. When I went to look at the tablets today - they had even more models than last time, all sat there trying to seduce me. Seduction is indeed a blessing because I got to see just how 'big' some of these things are. It's one thing giving you the dimensions on their website, but hell, it's a different story when you see it for real. What happened was I almost instantly decided ...no ...that's not what I want. The largest they had was a GRAPPHIRE (can't remember the model), it was only 200, but it was like four times the size I'd want to hold in one hand.

Sod that for a lark.

So then came the BAMBOO range (including that black one I liked before), and then I saw the BAMBOO ONE that had just arrived - and I instantly liked it. Right size, feels solid enough, and hell, at 34 (yup seriously 34 for a brand new WACOM), I personally couldn't care less if I bought it and didn't like it.

So I did :D

To be honest, the hardest decision was choosing between the BAMBOO ONE and the BAMBOO BLACK. But at the end of the day, the decision was made because no matter which one I went for 'none' of these are a professional grade product, so why pay double for the BLACK?

At least now, I can put the money I saved by getting the cheapest version, into getting a professional INTUOS4 later if it turns out I like the BAMBOO. Anyway, enough babbling from me - I haven't even tried it yet - just thought it curteous to let you guys know.

I'll let you know what I think of it later :thumbsup:

cresshead
01-10-2008, 06:57 PM
well you have a tablet anyhow..i used a wacom slate [a6] for years before upgrading to my wacom bamboo medium a few months back and whilst the old tablet was also a cheapy tablet it did the job really well when using it for z brush and tv paint.

have fun!

Greenlaw
01-10-2008, 06:59 PM
Congratulations on your purchase. I don't think you can go wrong buying a Wacom or any pressure sensitive tablet for that matter, if you don't already have one. If you do 2D or 3D art on a computer, a pressure sensitive tablet gives you far more control for drawing than a mouse does. Also, having used several brands and models over the years, I think the Wacom line has always been better designed and built than the competition.

Best,

DRG

hard8
01-10-2008, 07:28 PM
Congratulations on your purchase. I don't think you can go wrong buying a Wacom or any pressure sensitive tablet for that matter, if you don't already have one. If you do 2D or 3D art on a computer, a pressure sensitive tablet gives you far more control for drawing than a mouse does. Also, having used several brands and models over the years, I think the Wacom line has always been better designed and built than the competition.

Best,

DRG

wow... D.R. Greenlaw. I used to follow your online tutorials and forum advice when I first got into Lightwave about 8-10 years ago. My brother and I used to call some jobs we bid out "Greenlaw Jobs" because we said yes to the client and then prayed you had some tutorial on it. Sorry to hijack, but your kind of a Lightwave hero of mine from way back.

I see you've moved on to bigger and bigger things. R&H does some amazing work.

anyway... carry on.

DiedonD
01-11-2008, 12:56 AM
Interesting you should say that actually...

I was just looking at some of the photos of the bigger models and thinking to myself - they could become a problem in a way. What I mean is; with a small tablet I suppose you could hold it in one hand quite comfortably and need only small wrist movements with the pen in the other. But maybe the bigger tablets might be compromised by the lower part of your hand accidentally touching it while you work on the upper edge of the image.

Food for thought, that's for sure.

I have a 6x11 Wacom Intuo Tablet. Yes it is bigger then I wanted. But I have an issue with limits. If I were to have a smaller tablet I would probably feel myself trapped within that small range of activity. But if you have a bigger tablet, you can always go smaller by arranging its settings to meet a certain size and place within the big tablet acitivity area, that best suits your needs.

In other words if you have a biger tablet, you can go as small as you want from there. But I cant say the same for a small tablet :)

pumeco
01-11-2008, 08:12 AM
i have a wacom bamboo medium and use it for zbrush3.1, tv paint and art rage on my quadcore with 24" monitor running at 1920x1200 no problem.

works great with z brush btw.

there's a bunch of tools you can use t set up how you want to run the tablet
as well, esp if you run 2 screens and only want 1 to be for the tablet etc.

it's a great tablet btw and i bought mine from amazon it ships with photoshop elements for mac AND pc plus art rage for mac AND pc...all in!

my advice is to get the bundel deal rather than just the tablet on it's ownCheers Cressie, I will :thumbsup:

I was playing around with it all last night (hit the sack at about 3AM). I tried it in Photo-Paint first, and to be honest I wasn't that impressed with it at first. I think the problem is more a physical thing with the design really, because it feels 'too' slippery for it's own good. Anyway, now I know why those interchangeable nibs on the better models are needed - lol.

But then I tried it in ZBrush, and wow, it was definately worth the purchase just to use it with that alone. I already feel an idiot for getting on for so long without it. One thing I can't work out though, is how to assign the lower pen button to the 'ZSub' function in ZBrush. Obviously, I work in Add mode most of the time - but it would be nice to switch it into Subtract mode while I hold a button down.

Do you know how to do this (assuming it's even possible at all)?

Other than that minor niggle, I love it!


Congratulations on your purchase. I don't think you can go wrong buying a Wacom or any pressure sensitive tablet for that matter, if you don't already have one. If you do 2D or 3D art on a computer, a pressure sensitive tablet gives you far more control for drawing than a mouse does. Also, having used several brands and models over the years, I think the Wacom line has always been better designed and built than the competition.

Best,

DRG
Yup, Wacom certainly seems to be 'the' brand for this stuff from what I've seen so far. Way back, when I first got curious about these things - one of the first things I checked on their website was the company origin (something I 'always' do with electronics). As soon as I discovered that Wacom are Japanese, that was good enough for me (*says YAMAHA's biggest fan - in a VERY confident voice*). :D

Anyway, the drool factor has started now - and I want that CINTIQ you're getting when you're done with it!


I have a 6x11 Wacom Intuo Tablet. Yes it is bigger then I wanted. But I have an issue with limits. If I were to have a smaller tablet I would probably feel myself trapped within that small range of activity. But if you have a bigger tablet, you can always go smaller by arranging its settings to meet a certain size and place within the big tablet acitivity area, that best suits your needs.

In other words if you have a biger tablet, you can go as small as you want from there. But I cant say the same for a small tablet :)I know what you're saying a lot better now that I have one.

Before I got it, I thought that resting my hand on the bottom would effect the cursor - but I know it wouldn't now. I didn't realise that the cursor only responded to the pen, I thought that it would respond to anything that touched it (you live and learn). As for the sizing adjustment, I'm just thankful it exists at all, because even on this small tablet I had to adjust it so that my entire screen can be spanned in just over an inch of area. I hated it's default edge to edge setting. I like to keep my hand resting in one place and just move my fingers and wrist a little.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking you're working on incredibly large resolution images with yours :)

pumeco
01-11-2008, 08:25 AM
Damn, I just realised I quoted cresshead's previous quote instead of his last one :foreheads
I can't edit it either!

gerry_g
01-11-2008, 09:02 AM
ALT inverts the action you are performing, Mice are about L,M,R Buttons Tablets are about SHFT, ALT, COMAND, CONTROL

pumeco
01-11-2008, 10:03 AM
Hmmm... so that means I've got to find a way to allocate ALT to the button then :stumped:

BTW, what I was saying to diadond about the size - I get it now. I've just found some settings in Photo-Paint especially for the pen, and it's waaaaaaaaay better now. Much nicer using the full area, I just got it so 'fine' it looks like I've been using a pin on one of those black scratch-boards. Really fine and impressive, very nice!

DiedonD
01-12-2008, 12:11 AM
I could be wrong, but I'm thinking you're working on incredibly large resolution images with yours :)

Erm...Not really .. No. Im a celshaded fan ... WIth ordinary resolution for NTSC for the time beeing.

rakker16mm
01-12-2008, 12:37 AM
I started with the small Graphire a few years ago and was hook instantly. It went with me every where I went. I finally upgraded the the Intuose after I lost the pen to the Graphire on a trip to Amsterdam. One day I accidently hooked my USB hub up to the wrong power supply and fried my Intouse :cry: I called Wacom support and couldn't convince them it was normal wear and tear :cursin: So I did the only thing I could do. I bought an Intouse II :thumbsup: and after all of that, I'm still a happy customer :beerchug:

pumeco
01-12-2008, 02:44 AM
@diadond
I'm doing the same now. Tablet is set to full area and I'm experimenting with the settings for the pen. Everything seems to effect things well enough, apart from one setting (Firmness), which is doing nothing whatsoever from what I can tell.

@rakker16mm
lol - just be thankful you didn't fry a CINTIQ!!!

gerry_g
01-12-2008, 05:11 AM
Hmmm... so that means I've got to find a way to allocate ALT to the button then

No it's like using a one button mouse where you click or hold down the mouse button and use the modifier keys on the keyboard (shift, alt, command, control) to simulate the equivalent of the middle and right buttons (the pen itself being the equivalent of the left button)


I've just found some settings in Photo-Paint especially for the pen

Some programs automatically detect if a pen is connected, some have a custom plugin like Photoshop some like Lightwave need to be told before they'll run correctly (by hitting 'D' to enter 'Display Options' in Modeler and under the 'Interface Tab' change 'Input Device' to Tablet, then do the same for Layout)

StereoMike
01-12-2008, 06:06 AM
[edited]

came too late to the show and tried to answer a post on page 1...

pumeco
01-13-2008, 09:18 AM
@Gerry

It's hard to tell from your reply, but just in case, I just found out you 'can' do this with the pen button (no need to use the ALT key). I asked on ZBrush central, and the solution is to assign "Modifier" to the pen botton and choose ALT from the options. I hadn't noticed those options lead to others before, so next time I'll RTFM :D

Cheers!

gerry_g
01-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Yes sorry, mine is set to ALT also, I didn't know whether to mention this as I've no idea as to how standard or non standard a practice this is (turns out it's pretty common by the sounds of it), but be warned using ALT by depressing the pen button is not always the same as using keyboard ALT, particularly if a combination is required such as say – COMMAND+ALT + dragging laterally with the pen to zoom in and out of the viewport in Modeler, you can't replace ALT on the keyboard with ALT on the pen and just use the keyboard for the COMMAND part.

rakker16mm
01-13-2008, 03:22 PM
I have two pens and two mice. The extra pen and mouse are left over from my unfortunate "over-voltage test" on my first Intuose tablet [ not recommended ]:cursin: Having two pens and two mice you can set the buttons differently on each set. The only problem is some times you forget which pen you have in your hand, and that can get pretty maddening. So if you are using more than one pen and mouse I recommend wrapping something around one of the pens to make it feel different than the other. This way you don't even have to look to know which pen you have in your hand. Ditto for the extra mouse. If you are into knitting maybe you can make a cozy for the mouse or something :thumbsup:

Beginning early last year I've been doing story boarding using Photoshop and by the end of the day I wind up gripping the pen too tightly and pushing the buttons accidentally, and this is also very frustrating. So I wound up taking the button out simply for the fact it is way too easy to push accidentally. I find I don't miss the buttons all that much since I can always reach the keyboard with my other hand. I also have a Contour Shuttle Pro II which has programable buttons, and that's nice when you have certain key combinations that are hard to remember.

StereoMike
01-13-2008, 05:06 PM
Since the bamboo fun and graphire4 xl seem to be very similar, does it feel better to have two buttons (graphire) or one switch button (bamboo)?

mike

Bog
01-14-2008, 05:22 AM
In my experience, tablets are wonderful things, but I've had some Issues.

I once bought a non-Wacom ("Trust", I think it was) due it it's extreme cheapness. This translated to horrible, unavoidable tip-jitter. As in, with the stylus lying still on the tablet, the cursor was describing a 20-pixel probability cloud, jumping location once per update over the tablet.

Ewwww.

I need to buy a new tablet as my old Intuos 2 Teeny-Tiny Model is:

1) Too small to accurately move a pointer on my 30" monitor
2) The wrong aspect ratio - the monitor's 16:10, the tablet's 4:3

That latter point is a concern which might not be immediately evident when you're tablet shopping, but I've found it to be a real biggie. Given the tablet's 1:1 relation between stylus and cursor on screen, the whole "I'm using an electric pencil!" shtick goes out the window when the canvas is squished laterally. Matching tablet to monitor is everso important, IMAO.

StereoMike
01-14-2008, 05:45 AM
oh great. what would I want to do? I have a 24" 1920x1200 and a 20" 1600x1200 dual monitor setup.
4:3 or 16:10?

mike

Lightwolf
01-14-2008, 06:17 AM
oh great. what would I want to do? I have a 24" 1920x1200 and a 20" 1600x1200 dual monitor setup.
4:3 or 16:10?

16:10. With the newer drivers you can even toggle the tablet to only cover one monitor at the touch of a key, very handy for dual systems.

Cheers,
Mike

Bog
01-14-2008, 06:28 AM
Yeah, Mike. Listen to Mike.

(Couldn't resist ;) )

On most Wacoms you can also nominate an area of the tablet to map to the screen. Behold:

http://www.imaginetix.co.uk/Images/wacom_ctl.jpg

So a 16:10 covers all the bases.

Lightwolf
01-14-2008, 06:38 AM
Hehe...

And here is the toggle you can map to a button on the tablet to switch from screen to screen.

Cheers,
Mike

Bog
01-14-2008, 07:56 AM
Aaaaannnnd we're back to "I need to get a new tablet" again ;)

Lightwolf
01-14-2008, 08:32 AM
Aaaaannnnd we're back to "I need to get a new tablet" again ;)
Nah, just a new driver ;)

Cheers,
Mike

gerry_g
01-14-2008, 08:39 AM
Aaaaannnnd we're back to "I need to get a new tablet" again

Join the cue, p.s. general question to anyone with a tablet, I have a devil of a job making my pens last more than eleven months on average ( on my third one now) Intuos 2 pens seem far more fragile the the old series one pens, so how quickly are you all trashing yours ?

Lightwolf
01-14-2008, 08:42 AM
I have a devil of a job making my pens last more than eleven months on average ( on my third one now) Intuos 2 pens seem far more fragile the the old series one pens, so how quickly are you all trashing yours ?
Still on my first Intuos 3 pen after 18 months or so... and the first nib as well. And I use nothing else on this machine.

Cheers,
Mike

Ztreem
01-14-2008, 10:10 AM
Join the cue, p.s. general question to anyone with a tablet, I have a devil of a job making my pens last more than eleven months on average ( on my third one now) Intuos 2 pens seem far more fragile the the old series one pens, so how quickly are you all trashing yours ?

I'm on my first nib on my first pen on my intous 1, it's about ten years old. :D
(I have not used it every day for ten years, but almost everyday the last 2-3 years.)

pumeco
01-14-2008, 02:50 PM
Since the bamboo fun and graphire4 xl seem to be very similar, does it feel better to have two buttons (graphire) or one switch button (bamboo)?

mike
Just so you know, Mike, the BAMBOO ONE (the cheapest model which I bought), has two buttons on it, and they're both customisable. I have to say I really am very pleased with it. I'd be very surprised if you bought one and didn't like it. 34 for a brand new WACOM, and after using it I feel like I robbed someone, lol, you know what I mean?

Can't go wrong with a BAMBOO ONE :)

And, the money you save by getting this model could go into buying an INTUOS later - IF - you feel you need one.
Whatever you go for, just don't do a rakker16mm on it - that's all!

StereoMike
01-14-2008, 03:13 PM
They all have two buttons as I know, but on some it is a switch button (dictionary gives me rocker switch) and on the graphire4 it is two separated knobs. I wondered what feels better.
Thanks Pumeco.

mike

Greenlaw
01-14-2008, 07:40 PM
Okay, I could no longer resist: I took the plunge and bought the Cintiq 12W. I still have to use it on a project to make proper report, but my first impression is this: The Cintiq 12W is pretty darn fantastic! Well, mostly.

Image quality is excellent even with the default color profile that came with it. With the default profile, the Cintiq display is a very close match to my laptop display, which has a profile I calibrated myself. By default, the Wacom software wanted to overide my laptop's profile though, and I had to install the Microsoft Color Management Tool for XP to be able to use both profiles at the same time. Tonight, I'll make my own profile for the Cintiq so I can be sure this device is matching all my monitors and printers as closely as possible.

The size of the Cintiq is the same as my 6 x 11 Intuos 3, but a little heavier. No big deal. One interesting feature is a springed pivot point on the back, which allows you to rotate the tablet on a table like a drawing pad or an animation disc. Pretty thoughtful.

The Cintiq's resolution is a bit smaller than my laptop's. The laptop's resolution is 1920 x 1080, but the Cintiq is only 1280 x 800. If I mirror the monitors, the setting forces my laptop display to 1280, so I'm currently running the Cintiq as an extension to my laptop display. This means, I have to drag my paint software over the the Cintiq display to use it. I haven't actually tried working with this setup yet so I'll post more info later.

The buttons and sliders are exactly the same as on the Intuos 3. That's cool; it means my software profiles for the Intuos should work with it.

My main complaint with the tablet is that it's not nearly as portable as I hoped. Attached to the tablet is a breakout box that has four cables running out of it: One DVI cable from tablet to the box, one DVI cable from box to computer, a USB cable for the stylus data, and a power cord. The breakout box is about 4 x 6 inches, and has all the controls you'd normally find on full size monitors. It's not completely ugly, but it is cumbersome. Unlike the Intuos 2, I don't think I'll be lugging this device from home to work everyday. But on certain jobs where I'm storyboarding or painting texture maps, I think it will be worth it.

The tablet itself is pretty sexy. The stylus is the same as the one that comes with the Intuos 3, except it's black instead of gray. I also got the 6-D Art Pen, which looks like a wedge tipped marker. I'm not sure how it works yet because it doesn't have any buttons, but I'm very curious about this device.

I still have to calibrate the tablet and stylus to compensate for the distance between the LCD surface and the glass. Once that's done, I'll work with it for a few days and post a final opinion here. So far, I have a good feeling about this. :)

DRG

Ztreem
01-15-2008, 12:38 AM
Looking forward to your review on the Cintiq.

gerry_g
01-15-2008, 04:12 AM
The 6D Art pen has the ability to force brushstrokes to rotate in Painter so that their trajectory match the barrel rotation of the pen, this is my main motivation for wanting to upgrade to a series 3 tablet, but as for Cintiqs I'v played with them on exhibition stands and I don't like them, I prefer a bigger monitor and a bigger tablet, but then I don't need to be mobile.

pumeco
01-15-2008, 07:14 AM
@StereoMike
It only looks like a rocker switch, but it isn't. That's not to say I don't have a problem with the pen buttons though; for me, they're a bit too far up the pen to be ergonomic. I personally like to grasp the pen quite close to the bottom, so it's kinda irritating that I've got to slide my way up the pen each time I want to press a button.

@Greenlaw
That rotation feature you mention is a really good idea. The thought of 'not' having that is something that helped me decide against a large tablet. It sounds really good, and I'm also looking forward to the review - wondering if all those cables will spoil the convenience of rotation.

StereoMike
01-15-2008, 07:38 AM
@Pumeco
So which of them has the buttons too far up? The rocker switch style (bamboo) or the separated buttons (graphire4)?

mike

pumeco
01-15-2008, 12:00 PM
The one I'm using (BAMBOO ONE) has the problem, but looking at their website I don't think it would matter which model I'd gone for; they're all too far up the pen for my preference. When you first install the thing, you get an automatic demo showing you how to hold the pen correctly, and when you hold the pen like they suggest - it's just a matter of twisting the pen to get at the buttons.

Maybe it's just me, but when I hold the pen like they suggest, it feels like I'm drawing in the sand with a 'BAMBOO' stick from a 'very' great hight ;)

StereoMike
01-15-2008, 12:12 PM
lol :)

johnnytwopoint
01-15-2008, 12:17 PM
i used a wacom tablet when i worked for Lifetouch and LOVED IT. Tablets are the way to go in my book. I hate not having one at my other job that i do animation for.

Greenlaw
01-15-2008, 01:57 PM
Hi,

A quick followup to my previous report on the Cintiq 12W:

I'm liking it more now. I have it set up as a secondary monitor, to the virtual left of my laptop's display. One really neat feature that I got used to quickly is the toggle button. By default, my cursor appears on my primary monitor and the Cintiq basically functions like a regular tablet. But when I press the toggle button, the cursor pops over the the Cintiq display directly under my stylus. This is pretty cool when using Painter or Photoshop as is makes it easier to use both displays at the same time. For example, you can place some of your tools on the main display, press the toggle button and your cursor jumps directly over them. Press it again, and get back to drawing with minimal hand movement and no mousing necessary. It's a very thoughtful feature that I've gotten used to very quickly.

Speaking of Painter and Photoshop, these are the only programs I found so far that fully remember their location on the Cintiq, even though it's been designated the secondary monitor. That is, when I move the windows to the Cintiq and then maximize them, they fill the Cintiq only, and when I quit and relaunch, they open on the Cintiq. ArtRage 2, on the other hand, doesn't remember it's location and reverts to the primary display with each session; it works if the Cintiq is the primary display, but I don't want that--pretty annoying. Manga Studio will remember its location, but if I maximize it while on the Cintiq, it jumps to the primary display.

The ArtPen (aka, 6D Brush) is interesting. Some programs like Painter see the stylus 'tilt' as the angle of the pen from the 'paper', which affects tools like Airbrush; in other programs like ArtRage 2, the 'tilt' is the heading of the tools and can affect the angle the texture being painted. My understanding is that the ArtPen can do both in programs that support it (Painter X, for example). I'll post more info when I get a chance to really use it.

I haven't working in 3D Brush with the Cintiq yet but will do as soon as I get the chance. That should be very interesting.

I know I already said this but it's worth repeating: I wish the breakout box wasn't so cumbersome--it makes the Cintiq far less portable than it should be. I brought the Cintiq into work today, but I don't think I'll do this every day; only when I need to.

Despite a few annoyances, the Cintiq 12W is pretty cool. I'm trying not to think about how expensive it was (about $980, maybe less if you really shop around), but with as much drawing and painting I do here in the Box, I think it will pay for itself over time. I routinely draw storyboards with 80 or more panels, and scanning and formatting the individual drawings has become tedious and too time consuming, especially with project deadlines getting shorter all the time. I'm hoping the Cintiq will eliminate that whole process for me, and allow me to focus more on the creative part of my job.

DRG

Greenlaw
01-15-2008, 02:14 PM
That rotation feature you mention is a really good idea. The thought of 'not' having that is something that helped me decide against a large tablet. It sounds really good, and I'm also looking forward to the review - wondering if all those cables will spoil the convenience of rotation.

Not really as the Cintiq 12W has one cable coming out of it. It's a heavier cable than on the Intuos 3, but it's flexible and mostly stays out of the way. BTW, a few programs (i.e., ArtRage 2, Painter, and Manga Studio) allow you to freely rotate your drawing area while working, a reasonable simulation of working on loose paper or an animation disc. I was trying to set this up for the Cintiq's keys and when I was done it occured to me that this feature is completely unnecessary for this type of tablet.

D'oh! Old habits I guess. :)

DRG

pumeco
01-16-2008, 05:41 AM
Thanks for the heads-up Greenlaw, it certainly sounds like a great bit of kit :)

I like everything to do with being able to rotate it like a sheet of paper; I think that's a nice touch. For the price ($980), that makes it about 500 here in the UK. I haven't checked the prices of that thing over here yet, but without even doing so I reckon we'd be ripped-off for something more along the lines of 750 (it's not called Rip-Off Britain for nothing), but you've definately got me wanting one.

I notice you mentioned Manga Studio, which is something else I've shown interest in - but lost interest when I discovered you couldn't work in colour. I'm waiting to see what the PRO edition of version 4 will bring. If it brings colour, I just might consider getting a CINTIQ to use it as long as I don't need the money for other things.

rakker16mm
01-16-2008, 11:31 PM
And, the money you save by getting this model could go into buying an INTUOS later - IF - you feel you need one.
Whatever you go for, just don't do a rakker16mm on it - that's all!


:agree: No one needs to experience the grief I went through. I always advise people to avoid plugging their tablets into USB hubs if they can help it and plug into a port directly on the computer instead. It's so easy to plug the wrong power adapter into a USB hub and the tablets unfortunately have no over voltage protection of their own ( a bit of an oversight in my opinion )

Greenlaw
01-17-2008, 01:14 PM
Hi,

You know, for the life of me I can't seem to get the 6D Art Pen to work properly on the Cintiq. In Painter, I can see the rotation of the brush icon as I roll the pen, but as soon as the pen touches the tablet surface it snaps to the default vertical position and no longer follows the rotation of the pen. I've tried the pen's rotation expression set to rotation or bearing and neither seems to work. I tried this in both Painter X.1 and IX.5. Can anybody guess what I might be doing wrong?

I wrote Corel about this and their recommendation was to reset the program by starting it with the shift key held down, but this didn't seem to help at all. (It just made my presets go away.)

I haven't tried this with the Intuos 3, but if it works on that device then my guess is that there may be a problem with the Cintiq. I'll post more info when I can.

DRG

Greenlaw
01-17-2008, 01:46 PM
Some additional info: I just ran the Wacom Diagnositics for the Cintiq and the 6D Art Pen seems to be working fine--the tablet is definitely receiving rotation data. This data is just getting lost to Painter when I touch the screen with the Art Pen. Weird.

DRG

rdolishny
01-17-2008, 02:03 PM
For too long now, I've been considering getting one of those Wacom Tablets.


I use the 6x11 at work and a 4x6 at home. The 4x6 is a little small but I hate using a mouse now. It's amazing.

I'm sure the Bamboo is OK but the pressure sensitivity comes in hand with photoshop.

Greenlaw
01-17-2008, 03:56 PM
Hi,

A user on another forum gave me the solution:

When I installed the latest Wacom Cintiq driver, I had overwritten the old driver, and it was suggested that I completely remove the driver, reboot, and then perform a clean install of the Wacom driver. This seems to have fixed the problem; I now have full rotation control with my 6D Art Pen in Painter X.1.

I hope this info helps other users that may run into this problem.

DRG

bigmack8
08-08-2008, 07:13 AM
Has anyone experienced shakiness around the edges of the 12W? When I hover around the edges my cursor becomes uncontrollable shaky which as you can imagine affects my drawings. I'm forced to have to draw in the middle of the screen while I continue to search for a solution to this problem.

Greenlaw
08-08-2008, 02:18 PM
Hi,

Early on, I experienced some shakiness with my tablet but this was only when I placed my tablet on top of my laptop keyboard while using it. My guess is that there was interference coming from the laptop or its display. Now I mainly keep the tablet on my lap when I'm using it. No more shakiness, and I find it more natural to draw on it this way.

Hope this helps.

DRG

razorrust
08-14-2008, 02:01 AM
Hey folks....
I recently bought the entry-level black 4x6 Bamboo tablet, and kicking myself for not having a tablet since 2001!!! Zbrush definitely shines, even with 512 pressure levels and not the full 2048 of the intous models.
I may upgrade later on, but i think the smaller size works well as you don't have to move the pen far to get from one end of the monitor to the other.
But I have found an issue with LW 9.5, maybe someone has some advice...I've tried a few forum and google searches but I couldn't find anything...
When I try to move a selection in modeler or layout, the selected object jumps off screen, and seems to keep jumping/rotating even though I'm not moving the stylus. I can draw objects fine (cubes, points, ect.) but the problem just seems to happen when trying to edit a selection.
I downloaded the latest drivers from wacom, still no luck.
Maybe it's a setting issue, anyone have a similar experience?

Thanks!

gerry_g
08-14-2008, 03:17 AM
D for Display Options – Input device, change to Tablet, do this in both Layout and Modeler

razorrust
08-14-2008, 03:55 AM
D for Display Options Input device, change to Tablet, do this in both Layout and Modeler

Yeehaw! That did the trick!
Thanks Gerry, I owe ya one!:dance:

pumeco
08-14-2008, 03:34 PM
Hey folks... I recently bought the entry-level black 4x6 Bamboo tablet, and kicking myself for not having a tablet since 2001!!! Zbrush definitely shines, even with 512 pressure levels and not the full 2048 of the intous models...

Funny how things go. I just returned my Bamboo One to the store, amazingly they took it back after all this time.
They just had a quick look at it and said no prob's - lol!!!

Anyway, reason is I'm finding myself wanting the eraser on the pen (something which was lacking from the Bamboo One). I notice that black one you mention is the cheapest model in the range to actually feature an eraser so I'm considering it. It looks really good as well, nice design. I'm gonna check out the cheapest Intuos3 as well just in case I can afford one of those because those extra sensitivity levels keep tempting me.

That said, having not tried an Intuos3 I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference in having that extra sensitivity.

zapper1998
08-14-2008, 03:46 PM
I have a BamBoo and I love it now....
Took awhile to get use to it....
after using a mouse forever....
now no more mouse, except for a few things, that the pen cannot do....
but i am using the 'Tab" key more now, so the mouse pretty soon will be gone....
Actually restarted computer with out the mouse, and the computer did fine..


Michael

geothefaust
08-14-2008, 03:57 PM
I wont lie, I haven't touched a mouse in years to do 3D work. Mice just feel so damn clunky now, oh, and it flares up my tendinitis which was originally caused by mice.

Ituos2 here, work great with all my applications, from PainterX to Zbrush, and LW.

Matt
09-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Well, I've just taken the plunge and bought a Wacom Bamboo (the cooler looking black one) for 39.90 (Amazon, although actually from Pixmania.co.uk)

Even if I don't like it, it's only 40 quid, I spend that on beer in a weekend!

I only need it for basic pressure sensitivity in Photoshop, so I just can't justify an Intuos at the prices they are.

I was a little worried by the comparison page (posted above) on the Wacom website that said the Bamboo Fun is the one that comes with 'Pen & Eraser'.

But when I downloaded the brochure, the Bamboo does (Bamboo One doesn't).

I think the Wacom website is misleading too, it makes it out that the Bamboo Fun is most suitable for painting and the Bamboo for writing, but that's because the Bamboo fun comes with Photoshop Elements and ArtRage. They Bamboo Fun has nothing the Bamboo doesn't (apart from a larger version).

Personally, I have no idea why the Bamboo isn't the top of the line of the Bamboo range, it looks soooooooo much more 'pro' than the 'Fun' or 'One' versions, which as a product designer, I just _couldn't_ bring myself to buy for looks alone!

Will let you know how I get on!

:)

akademus
09-03-2008, 12:34 AM
How good are Bamboo range Express Keys and that wheel on top? We are considering getting a half dozen of these for studio. I have Intous 3 and those additions are irreplaceable for me, but has anyone used both of these and can tell me the difference, please?

cresshead
09-03-2008, 09:42 AM
well i have a bamboo medium A5 and a friend has just ordered a inutos A5 so i'll compare them when they arrive

note> the tilt function on the intuos pen's are of no use for zbrush sculpting but would be useful for painter

as for the buttons..the bamboo buttons [4 are good and can be programmed] and the wheel can be set to scroll or zoom.

the programing is o/s wide not app specific..intuos can be mapped for each app i 'think'

akademus
09-03-2008, 09:58 AM
the programing is o/s wide not app specific..intuos can be mapped for each app i 'think'

Yes. Intous buttons are programmed per software. I usually program left TouchStrip to be "[" and "]" eg. brush up and down size.

Please let me know your experience when you compare the two.

Thanks

Matt
09-05-2008, 06:10 PM
Pumeco, does your Bamboo show any signs of pen pressure in Photoshop? My brushes even when set to pen pressure show no signs at all, yet it does show pressure behaviour in ArtRage.

But Photoshop is just the same thickness, even though the Bamboo is no Intuos, it should show _some_ sign of pressure.

Matt
09-05-2008, 06:49 PM
Never mind, I had installed the driver _before_ plugging in the tablet, apparently you're supposed to do it the other way around (reads manual!)

Everything works now! Yay!

This feels soooooo much better, and my mouse feels massive when I switch back to it!

I agree with pumeco about the pen button though, it's too far up the pen for my liking.

I find it better to turn the pen around so I can use my thumb on the lower rocker, and set that to right mouse button.

Other than that, for 40 quid, it's excellent, and would recommend it to anyone who wants basic pressure sensitive, natural feeling painting!

Matt

DiedonD
09-06-2008, 02:59 AM
Never mind, I had installed the driver _before_ plugging in the tablet, apparently you're supposed to do it the other way around (reads manual!)

Everything works now! Yay!

This feels soooooo much better, and my mouse feels massive when I switch back to it!

I agree with pumeco about the pen button though, it's too far up the pen for my liking.

I find it better to turn the pen around so I can use my thumb on the lower rocker, and set that to right mouse button.

Other than that, for 40 quid, it's excellent, and would recommend it to anyone who wants basic pressure sensitive, natural feeling painting!

Matt

Hey thanks for the indirect advice to my problem. I have Intuo Wide 4 I think, and in Photo Editor (PS' small brother) regardless the preasure it wont show. Only if the brush is MASSIVE size then you would see slight changes regarding pen preasure.

I hope that works though, Ill check it later on today.

akademus
09-06-2008, 04:04 AM
I believe Intuos (http://www.wacom-asia.com/products/intuos3/intuos3_index.html) range goes to 3.

Hey Matt, can you use that top circle on your Bamboo to control the brush size, shortcuts "[" an "]" in both PS and Zbrush? If you can, tell me please how does it feel and is it awkward to have it on top of the tablet, e.g. how accessible it is.

akademus
09-06-2008, 04:31 AM
For everyone having problems with PS brush size controlled by pressure here are some settings.

First, check the sensitivity in the test area of Wacom drivers. Second, in PS, under brushes in Shape Dynamics change Size control to Pen Pressure. Lower the Minimum Diameter so there is a significant difference between the tail/head and middle of the stroke. Do the same for opacity under Other Dynamics settings.

Cheers

cresshead
09-06-2008, 04:34 AM
I believe Intuos (http://www.wacom-asia.com/products/intuos3/intuos3_index.html) range goes to 3.

Hey Matt, can you use that top circle on your Bamboo to control the brush size, shortcuts "[" an "]" in both PS and Zbrush? If you can, tell me please how does it feel and is it awkward to have it on top of the tablet, e.g. how accessible it is.

though i'm not matt i do have a wacom bamboo medium a5, the circle is preset to be either zoom or scroll..there's not an option to change it to keystrokes defined by the user like the a,b,c,d buttons.

Matt
09-06-2008, 07:42 AM
I believe Intuos (http://www.wacom-asia.com/products/intuos3/intuos3_index.html) range goes to 3.

Hey Matt, can you use that top circle on your Bamboo to control the brush size, shortcuts "[" an "]" in both PS and Zbrush? If you can, tell me please how does it feel and is it awkward to have it on top of the tablet, e.g. how accessible it is.

As Cresshead pointed out, the software doesn't let you change the ring function to anything other than scroll or zoom, I bet they could have, but want you to upgrade to an Intuos!

But for zooming and scrolling, works fine on the top.

You can change the function keys to a keystroke, so you could try that, but if different apps have different hotkeys it won't be as useful, another 'you have to upgrade to a Intuos feature'!

Matt
09-06-2008, 07:44 AM
Cresshead, do you know if it's possible to change the nibs on these Bamboo pens?

Because the price for a spare pen is almost the same as what I paid for the whole thing!!! I see another marketing cash in there!

Wacom need someone else to step in and give them some competition, they over charge something awful for their products (except the initial Bamboo price I guess).

cresshead
09-06-2008, 08:08 AM
yeah i got 5 spare nibs in the boxed/bundle version of my bamboo a5 medium which came with photoshop elements for mac and pc plus art rage for mac and pc

no tool to exrtract the nib out for the pen but i used my tool that came with the hp tablet pc i also have which worked fine...or you could use a small pair of nosed pliers....or buy an intuos tablet which in bet has a tool!

cresshead
09-06-2008, 08:10 AM
on the intuos, a friend as just bought an intuos 3 [a5]...when i next visit i'll have a go and see if it's worth the 3x the cost of the bamboo medium.
and what extras you get in the box

Matt
09-06-2008, 09:21 AM
yeah i got 5 spare nibs in the boxed/bundle version of my bamboo a5 medium which came with photoshop elements for mac and pc plus art rage for mac and pc

no tool to exrtract the nib out for the pen but i used my tool that came with the hp tablet pc i also have which worked fine...or you could use a small pair of nosed pliers....or buy an intuos tablet which in bet has a tool!

So you just pull the nib out of the end and shove another one up there?

cresshead
09-06-2008, 09:52 AM
re changing nibs>>yup...that's it..simple eh?...
yeah i had one get a bit rough so though may as well see how hard it is to change it...

akademus
09-06-2008, 10:31 AM
Hey guys, thank you for the info on Bamboo.

Intous packages differ from zone to zone. For example, Wacom Asia don't include 5D mouse in it, while you get it in Europe and USA and, I believe, Japan.

In Intous 3 6x8" (A3 that is) I've got the tablet, grip pen, stand, 5 standard replacement nibs, 1 felt tip and one, sort of, charcoal and a tweezers for nib replacement.

Grip pen has a sort of screw on the top, but it's fairly ease to replace nibs. Just use the tweezers to catch the tip and pull it out. Than just put another one in. You have to be careful not to spend the whole nib as you won't be able to take it out. However, I'm having the same nib for year and a half now, I'm using the tablet every day for 8-10 hours and it's showing only a slight usage on the side.

Good rule is to always have at least 1mm of nib sticking out.

Cheers

IMI
09-06-2008, 11:36 AM
Hey guys, thank you for the info on Bamboo.

Intous packages differ from zone to zone. For example, Wacom Asia don't include 5D mouse in it, while you get it in Europe and USA and, I believe, Japan.

In Intous 3 6x8" (A3 that is) I've got the tablet, grip pen, stand, 5 standard replacement nibs, 1 felt tip and one, sort of, charcoal and a tweezers for nib replacement.




You got tweezers with yours? I didn't get tweezers with mine, and I have the same model, which I bought in March or April this year. Otherwise, I got the same extra tips you describe, but haven't had to replace one yet.
The mouse? No idea - I haven't even taken it out of the wrapper yet.

cresshead
09-06-2008, 11:59 AM
what graphics software was bundled with the intuos?

i've heard on some tablets you get FULL photoshop!

akademus
09-06-2008, 12:22 PM
You got tweezers with yours? I didn't get tweezers with mine, and I have the same model, which I bought in March or April this year. Otherwise, I got the same extra tips you describe, but haven't had to replace one yet.
The mouse? No idea - I haven't even taken it out of the wrapper yet.

Yeah, like ones in this image http://www.buywacom.com.au/images/detail/Accessorykit1.jpg

About software, I've got Corel Painter some Light edition...

One other thing I just saw. Anti smudge glove (http://www.buywacom.com.au/products.cfm?fullID=1C9D3DB1-1A4D-44F9-2D38CCCAF7CD954F&ID=50)! I really have troubles during hot days, my palm sweats and sticks to tablet, making it hard to move.

http://www.buywacom.com.au/images/detail/smudge_large.jpg

cresshead
09-06-2008, 02:25 PM
and they're left handed!!:thumbsup:

i want a pink one!
or a cat fur one!

http://www.buywacom.com.au/images/detail/smudge_large.jpg

akademus
09-06-2008, 02:49 PM
Image going to pub to have a pint with one of these. LOL

DiedonD
09-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Sigh. 'Its always the one with the fly under his hat"

Ive reinstalled the drivers and now, although the presure thing works well, I always have the message "Your tablet hasnt been installed completely. Restart your computer if the problem persists reinstall the drivers" .And it works just fine each time I restart it, why would it give me that message?

Love the gloves btw Cresshead. I was sweating bad on a hot day here one day, had to wrap my shirt around my hand each time I dwelled into Graph Editors deep details, and dealing with my hand sticking to the tablet also, kinda made the ride even worse :thumbsdow

I cant believe the idea is new though. Do most of Intuo users live in cold, or just right temperatures? lol

Ztreem
09-06-2008, 04:34 PM
I bought some cheap cotton gloves and cut off all the fingers but leaved the pinky finger whole, it works fine for warm days.

Matt
09-06-2008, 05:59 PM
One other thing I just saw. Anti smudge glove (http://www.buywacom.com.au/products.cfm?fullID=1C9D3DB1-1A4D-44F9-2D38CCCAF7CD954F&ID=50)!

No way! You've got to be kidding! Tell me where in the World you could wear these and not get beaten up!

:D

IMI
09-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Yeah, I got the Corel thing too with mine... "essentials", or "basics" - I dunno, can't remember, since I already use Painter X and just blew it off.

Ah, the ol' left-handed-glove. How useful. ;)

*insert old guy voice*
You know, there was a day when we didn't worry about smudging our peripherals. Kids today - BAH!
:D

cresshead
09-06-2008, 06:31 PM
well we have a techy thing called 'soap' over in the u.k....much better than a wacky glove you might see in a 70's dodgy movie!

DiedonD
09-07-2008, 12:39 AM
Yeah, I got the Corel thing too with mine... "essentials", or "basics" - I dunno, can't remember, since I already use Painter X and just blew it off.

Ah, the ol' left-handed-glove. How useful. ;)

*insert old guy voice*
You know, there was a day when we didn't worry about smudging our peripherals. Kids today - BAH!
:D

Same here. I also have the Photoshop Elements with it too. And the crazy mouse that I only use when the pen has gone astray.

And Cress? Soap really helps your hand not sticking on the tablet from sweat on a hot day? Now that wouldve been the last idea that would came to my mind!

akademus
09-08-2008, 06:17 AM
I bought some cheap cotton gloves and cut off all the fingers but leaved the pinky finger whole, it works fine for warm days.

I did that too, but only ones I can find are the white ones. They have to be fairly thin and stretchy and they get dirty after a while (who mentioned soap :D ).

Now! Onto Cintiqs! Who has/want one? And experiences, please :D

Lightwolf
09-08-2008, 07:02 AM
No way! You've got to be kidding! Tell me where in the World you could wear these and not get beaten up!

You've never seen a traditional 2D animation studio from the inside, have you? ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Matt
09-08-2008, 08:12 AM
You've never seen a traditional 2D animation studio from the inside, have you? ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Nope! I take it they all wear these gloves and do Michael Jackson impressions all day then?

:D

cresshead
09-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Now! Onto Cintiqs! Who has/want one? And experiences, please :D

i don't have a Cintiqs but i DO have a h.p. tablet pc which i reckon is fantastic for zbrush, toonboom, tv paint etc.:thumbsup:

and it's cheap, well put together..loads of extras...like 2 batteries...

Ztreem
09-08-2008, 12:01 PM
I also have a TabletPC and it's almost the same as a cintiq you don't really feel the difference, you only feel the difference in your wallet because it's so much cheaper with a TablePC and you also get a computer at the same time. :D

akademus
09-09-2008, 10:37 AM
I also have a TabletPC and it's almost the same as a cintiq you don't really feel the difference, you only feel the difference in your wallet because it's so much cheaper with a TablePC and you also get a computer at the same time. :D

Would like to compare the two. I tried Cintiq in a shop recently and must say that ability to freely rotate it while you're working is awesome.

I'd better start saving right now and prey my wife don't find out :)

cresshead
09-09-2008, 10:44 AM
the thing i've heard from a users is that whilst you 'can' use a cintiq anywhere...you are tethered with the cord back to your pc....so if your not wanting to sit on your sofa and doodle that there's no issues but if you want to go anywhere then a tablet pc maybe a better option.

JGary
09-09-2008, 10:54 AM
No way! You've got to be kidding! Tell me where in the World you could wear these and not get beaten up!

:D

Actually, this glove works great and I would highly recommend one for anyone who is a Cintiq user...I'm wearing one right now. It does a great job of keeping the oils off your screen which can be a big problem with the Cintiq...you hand leaves oils on the screen, dust sticks to the oils, you drag your pen tip across the dust stuck on the screen and cause scratches. Yes, the Cintiq is susceptible to scratching.

Here's the US website:
http://www.smudgeguard.com/

Ztreem
09-09-2008, 11:09 AM
Actually, this glove works great and I would highly recommend one for anyone who is a Cintiq user...I'm wearing one right now. It does a great job of keeping the oils off your screen which can be a big problem with the Cintiq...you hand leaves oils on the screen, dust sticks to the oils, you drag your pen tip across the dust stuck on the screen and cause scratches. Yes, the Cintiq is susceptible to scratching.

Here's the US website:
http://www.smudgeguard.com/

It happend to me on my tabletPC, I was sitting out in the sun and did some quick doodles, then some dust got stuck on my screen and when I moved the pen over it it made a scratch in my screen. Now I have bought a protecting cover so I can sketch without fear of scratching the screen. :thumbsup:

JGary
09-09-2008, 11:19 AM
the thing i've heard from a users is that whilst you 'can' use a cintiq anywhere...you are tethered with the cord back to your pc....so if your not wanting to sit on your sofa and doodle that there's no issues but if you want to go anywhere then a tablet pc maybe a better option.

Yes, the larger Cintiqs are definitely not portable. Even the smaller 12UX is hard to travel with...there are lots of cords associated with it.

I have a 21UX and have had a love/hate relationship with it. I bought one of the first generation Cintiqs, which use a acrylic top surface (newer models use glass). The acrylic surface scratches easily and after owning it for 1 1/2 years, certain areas of the screen had developed a cloud of scratches that were affecting visibility. This was a result of repetitive motions using light pressure...the worst was the area where I would tumble geometry around in the opengl viewport in modeler. Upon emailing Wacom and sending photos, they told me that the scratches were a result of me not keeping the screen clean and that dust stuck on the screen was causing the scratches! No mention of this potential problem anywhere on the website or in the manual. I tried to get them to pay for this repair, but I ended up having to pay to have the surface replaced ($450). I had them replace the acrylic with the newer glass top and have had the newly repaired Cintiq back now for about a week. Too soon to tell how much more scratch proof the glass will be compared to acrylic. As I did with the acrylic surface, I clean the glass surface a couple of times each day by wiping it off with a soft cloth. I also bought a Smudgeguard glove (see reply above this one) which seems to be working great at keeping the screen clean.

So there's the hate...even after all that, I still love using the Cintiq and don't think I could stop using it. I have been using Wacom tablets for years, and still have a Intous that I use with my laptop, but for me, the Cintiq is a much better experience in comparison. It just feels more natural to draw right on the screen where you're looking and it's easier to draw curves since you can tilt the screen when drawing. With the Cintiq, you also have to move your arm around more to get to all the menus which keeps my shoulders from getting tensed up after a long day sitting at the computer. One thing that may drive some people nuts is having your hand partially covering the screen...it's a little strange at first, but I got used to it and now don't realize it's there. I have a friend who recently bought the smaller 12UX. He really likes it, but is already wanting to move up to the larger 20 or 21UX. It's really too small to use with 3d programs that have so many menus taking up screenspace.

JGary
09-09-2008, 11:28 AM
It happend to me on my tabletPC, I was sitting out in the sun and did some quick doodles, then some dust got stuck on my screen and when I moved the pen over it it made a scratch in my screen. Now I have bought a protecting cover so I can sketch without fear of scratching the screen. :thumbsup:

I did consider a protector screen for the Cintiq, but Wacom did not recommend using them. Apparently, they have seen Cintiq's returned with damaged screens when users would try to remove the protective screens and ripped off the anti-glare coating.

Here's the one I specifically asked about:
Invisible Shield
http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/wacom-cintiq-21ux-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php

Wacom also said they noticed a increase in drawing friction with the protectors they tested.

Matt
09-09-2008, 12:42 PM
Actually, this glove works great and I would highly recommend one for anyone who is a Cintiq user...I'm wearing one right now. It does a great job of keeping the oils off your screen which can be a big problem with the Cintiq...you hand leaves oils on the screen, dust sticks to the oils, you drag your pen tip across the dust stuck on the screen and cause scratches. Yes, the Cintiq is susceptible to scratching.

Here's the US website:
http://www.smudgeguard.com/

I would never live it down in our studio! :D

Lightwolf
09-09-2008, 12:52 PM
I would never live it down in our studio! :D
You can pretend that they are high-end RSI protectors... the latest rave in silicon valley.
Don't make them laugh, make them envy you! :D

Cheers,
Mike

Ztreem
09-09-2008, 01:08 PM
I did consider a protector screen for the Cintiq, but Wacom did not recommend using them. Apparently, they have seen Cintiq's returned with damaged screens when users would try to remove the protective screens and ripped off the anti-glare coating.

Here's the one I specifically asked about:
Invisible Shield
http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/wacom-cintiq-21ux-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php

Wacom also said they noticed a increase in drawing friction with the protectors they tested.

my cover has only glue along the sides and it's also outside the actual screen, so no problem removing it.(done it several times)

I don't remember the company name, but I ordered it from the USA for about $34.

Justin Bregar
03-06-2010, 06:24 AM
The Bamboo range is a new series of Wacom graphics tablets. The going rate is $199, and best price for a new one is $189.99 .
Another point, all the wacom range I've seen seem to be very durable.
Otherwise you may want to look into just buying a new pen for your tablet. Prices range between $30 - $100 depending on the model of tablet.

pumeco
04-13-2010, 03:53 AM
Well, here's something to think about.

Since this thread started I've had two models:

* Bamboo One
* Bamboo

So that means I have "Bamboo" right now, and the weird thing is, when I go to their website to look for a 64-bit Windows 7 driver for this model, I see a totally different looking model they have also called Bamboo. I can only assume that the Bamboo they're showing now is the 'New Shape' or something, but it's a bit annoying when there's no way to know which model they're referring to with the new drivers!

I mean, I'm wanting to get Windows 7 64-bit, and I see there are suitable drivers on the site for "Bamboo". But which Bamboo is that; last years model, this years model, or both? I'm wondering has anyone here got the same model of Bamboo as me? The shiny black one with four buttons (blue lights) and a scroll wheel in the middle? If so, does it work with the new drivers on 64-bit Windows 7?