PDA

View Full Version : How much should I charge



Dragonkwon
01-08-2008, 02:25 PM
I am kinda new to the video biz and not sure how much to charge my clients. This is a project I just did a couple of weeks ago and only charged $100 was that a fair price? It took about five hours to complete. I would like to know how much you would charge for something like this? Here's the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grtwtF8Q2Nk. The DVD version looks a lot better than this youtube one.

*Pete*
01-08-2008, 02:37 PM
I am aiming at $100/hour as salary, so for your 5 hour job you should ask $500 to begin with, as a minimum price.
Im new with working for money with 3D, but i think that for a 5 hour job, i would take paid for a full 8 hours, as that 5 hour job will potentially stop you from doing any other paid job that day.
so..$800 maybe?

others will most likely advise you better, im still new to this, but i do know that you need to be carefull with working cheaper than you can afford to.

Steamthrower
01-08-2008, 02:44 PM
I've been somewhat flexible on my job rates, but, normally (when freelancing, not working) I charge between $100 to $120 an hour when doing video/3D. When doing Photoshop work or web stuff it's a rate of $65/hr.

AbnRanger
01-08-2008, 06:39 PM
Depending on what else you do to pay the bills, you may consider having a "Minimum Fee"...meaning that it's just not worth the time to set up and produce for less than a pre-determined amount.
You have to realize that there are plenty of potential clients that expect you to do work for cut-throat rates...more or less as "a favor" or worse yet, that they are actually doing you a favor by giving you material to help build your portfolio... geesh!
If you should ever hear that line, promptly remind them that the BEST portfolio is one that's full of paid gigs!!! Imagine being a client with a with a decent budget viewing the work of an artist that has a client list and demo clips from numerous high profile companies, and the alternative is one that has nothing but a few personal projects to show. Who get's the job?
Practically speaking, every artist is in the active process of building up their portfolio/demo reel

What was the purpose of that clip, BTW? To be placed on their website? The background seems too static for that length of time. If I may make a suggestion, perhaps placing the logo (without all of the effects behind it)...using the rule of thirds...up toward one side (not smack dab center...which puts it in the way for one thing). Heck...don't be afraid to have plenty of white space sometimes. It often helps the eye focus on the object or person you want them to, as well as making things more simple. In some situations, less is more. Meaning, if you have too much going on, you're defeating the purpose.
If this guys wants more fancy effects, he's going to need to break out that fancy checkbook! :D

I'm afraid one thing you did was tagged yourself as a mega-low budget guy with this client...unless it was a favor for a family member or close friend.

Minimum fees help weed out the rif-raf. You may have to turn away more potential work than you actually do, for this reason...otherwise you'd make more per hour flipping burgers.
Another thing you can try...which most companies do to some degree...is to use a "Range" estimation method .... "This type of work/project would START at $______.00, and may require as much as ______

What that does is let you know up front whether they are serious, and let them know whether or not they're budget provides for this type of work.
If this guy wants some quality video work done, with effects, color correction, green screen work, etc...it's your job often times to "educate" him about the fact that Walmart doesn't offer video editing services for good reason. If he insists on a budget rate, suggest a low-end video editing application (pinnacle studio for example) that lets him "Do-It-Yourself." This way, you are cordially informing him that they rate he's looking to pay actually falls into the "Do-It-Yourself" range, and not sufficient to acquire professional services.

Oh, another thing you might find extremely resourceful is googling the keywords "Video Editing (or 3D animation, Computer Graphics, etc) Pricing Guide(s)"

ted
01-08-2008, 06:57 PM
Decent look. Too decent for a hundred bucks though! :hey:
I agree you gotta start somewhere, but you'll soon find yourself stuck in that price range. People will never offer you more then you charged the last guy and in fact, next time will ask for it 10% cheaper. :D

Our 2 man production is $225.00 per hour. Our one man production is $175.00 per hour.
I would suspect that your shoot and post production would have been 4-5 hours of our time so you do the math.

I'm not saying you should be charging that yet, but it's hungry kids like you, (don't take it personal), that devalue everybody's work.
The hardest lesson I learned was that if I landed every project that came my way, I'm charging way too little and am thought of accordingly.

Find the balance my friend. But stop selling us all down the river! :D

Don't take any of our comments as the end all, but I think we are all indicating that you need to be respected and compensated much more then you were on this.
I wish you luck.

jurupari
01-08-2008, 09:07 PM
Just a curiosity: how do you guys actually calculate hours working on a project? I mean, modeling, texturing, rendering, post-processing times all included in the final hour count, all at the same fee per hour? or there are different rates based on the kind of job you're doing (eg render hours cost less than modeling hours etc).

Happy new year everybody!

evenflcw
01-08-2008, 11:18 PM
I am aiming at $100/hour as salary, so for your 5 hour job you should ask $500 to begin with, as a minimum price.
Im new with working for money with 3D, but i think that for a 5 hour job, i would take paid for a full 8 hours, as that 5 hour job will potentially stop you from doing any other paid job that day.
so..$800 maybe?

others will most likely advise you better, im still new to this, but i do know that you need to be carefull with working cheaper than you can afford to.

Hopefully you only suggested the first paragraph as a poor excuse to achieve the last. Because by itself, the first paragraph is a really awful business practice. If the client should find out this is how you bill, he will undoubtedly feel ripped off. You could work on another clients project - it's not his fault you might not be organised or energetic enough. Or you could take the rest of the day off - because maybe you had no more work to be done. You shouldn't bill two different clients for the same time and you shouldn't bill for time you spent doing something not related to the client.

This isn't exactly the same, but close - at a software dev firm where I work we had a consultant (completely unrelated to cg) charge us for his travelling expenses. Not only did he charge near his consultant fee for this (like x5 what could be considered fair/conventional for those kinds of expenses), his office was also in the same part of town as ours making the hefty travelling expenses look even more silly. Some days he came and went within the hour, so most of his fee those days consisted of "travelling expenses". And other days he was at our office all day. Should we pay for his poor planing skills? Should we pay for his trips to and from his home (which he would make anyway travelling to and from his own office)? In the end 40% of total was travelling expenses. He did a good job, but undoubtedly those expenses did not seem true or fair.

Minimum fee or startup cost is alot more understandable and looks a hole lot more honest than billing for "potential lost income". Obviously you aren't suggesting to write this clearly on the bill, but I don't think you would feel that good about yourself either even if you hid it. Then again, money does corrupt, so after awhile it would become second nature, until somebody catches you... :devil:

Dragonkwon
01-09-2008, 12:05 AM
Decent look. Too decent for a hundred bucks though! :hey:
I agree you gotta start somewhere, but you'll soon find yourself stuck in that price range. People will never offer you more then you charged the last guy and in fact, next time will ask for it 10% cheaper. :D

Our 2 man production is $225.00 per hour. Our one man production is $175.00 per hour.
I would suspect that your shoot and post production would have been 4-5 hours of our time so you do the math.

I'm not saying you should be charging that yet, but it's hungry kids like you, (don't take it personal), that devalue everybody's work.
The hardest lesson I learned was that if I landed every project that came my way, I'm charging way too little and am thought of accordingly.

Find the balance my friend. But stop selling us all down the river! :D

Don't take any of our comments as the end all, but I think we are all indicating that you need to be respected and compensated much more then you were on this.
I wish you luck.
MR.Ruiz

First of all I'm not a kid I'm 32 years old and a full time Master instructor of America's Dojo "www.americasdojo.com". I said in my first post I am new to this biz not business in general. I was trying to find a price range for this type of work without ripping people off. This is why I got into this because someone charged me $500 for a 30 second commercial that looked like ****. I don't intend to devalue anything or anyone I'm just trying to be an honest guy. I've delt with your kind in the martial arts business world and let me tell you, your the type of guy that gives this business a bad reputation. You say don't take it the wrong way well I took it the wrong way. So don't try to mask what you said with nice words at the end. I don't care for your kind of person or your business advice so please bow out of this conversation. But for the rest of you guys thank you for your feedback it helps alot

Master Gaines
32 year old "MAN"

Vujaka
01-09-2008, 01:35 AM
Master Gaines

take it easy, he's only offering advice, you should have thicker skin than this. He might have been brash but somehow I do not think he meant to be offensive. It's true that people who offer services for so little bring the market down and devalue the time, respect and skill WE ALL put into our work.

This low-selling practice is negative and to quote him: "you need to be respected and compensated much more then you were on this"

It's not your fault we all start out somewhere, but now with the advice everyone is giving, use the crits, take it like a man, and next time you will be prepared.

Good luck to your NEW BIZ

archijam
01-09-2008, 03:24 AM
'Kid' comment aside (and I think he meant young/small in industry, not in age) Ted's response may sound harsh, but it is accurate. The point he was making is that by underselling yourself, you also undersell an entire community of professionals.

If more people charge what they are worth, and not 'what they can get', everybody wins. The client will pay what they need to, and value what they get all the more, as an 'investment'.

It is exactly the same problem facing the local Architecture industry, Archviz industry etc.

To critique your work for a moment - I think it is solid, but you should focus on the camera work. Some parts seemed to be shot without a tripod, with rapid panning, or use agressive mechanical zoom.

Regards charging for the 3D component, this is a personal decision. Many companies build up their 'library' of effects and materials on their own costs, or on the job. Sometimes a long, complicated effect that the client never really asked for or expected can be absorbed into your own overheads, if you can get sufficient use out of it in the future.

j.

parm
01-09-2008, 06:08 AM
Firstly, I think you did rather well, to turn the job around in only five hours.

Pricing. Is always a difficult question. And depends on your type of business and overheads.
If you're a sole trader. You are, quite frankly. Free to charge whatever you see fit. I completely reject the notion. Of anyone. Being held responsible for maintaining the fees of others.

Personally, though. I would suggest that you start by deciding what is fair to you. Think about what you need to earn, (per hour , per day or per year), as a base line. Be realistic. Then see if your clients budget can accommodate it.

It makes sense to be flexible. So, if your next job is for a large advertising company. It will be worth your while, researching the going freelance rates. Then maximize your return. Some, can afford to be more picky than others, obviously. So. if another less affluent client. Has a couple of days/hours, that meet your minimum. Then, it's up to you.

Seeing as you are in full time employment. And presumably 3d graphics is something of a sideline/extra for you. I'm curious to know. Whether you yourself. Were happy with $100 as a fee for the work?

Steamthrower
01-09-2008, 06:47 AM
MR.Ruiz

First of all I'm not a kid I'm 32 years old and a full time Master instructor of America's Dojo "www.americasdojo.com". I said in my first post I am new to this biz not business in general. I was trying to find a price range for this type of work without ripping people off. This is why I got into this because someone charged me $500 for a 30 second commercial that looked like ****. I don't intend to devalue anything or anyone I'm just trying to be an honest guy. I've delt with your kind in the martial arts business world and let me tell you, your the type of guy that gives this business a bad reputation. You say don't take it the wrong way well I took it the wrong way. So don't try to mask what you said with nice words at the end. I don't care for your kind of person or your business advice so please bow out of this conversation. But for the rest of you guys thank you for your feedback it helps alot

Master Gaines
32 year old "MAN"

"Master" Gaines - seriously, get a grip. I thought martial arts folks are like tough or something. You don't break down in emotional distress if someone tries to mug you in an alley, do you? Then don't break down when someone offers you helpful advice.

Seriously. You've "delt with your kind in the martial arts business world"...No. You've got it wrong. EVERYONE on this thread came looking to help you. NO ONE wanted to offend you. And YOU have began insulting people.

*Pete*
01-09-2008, 07:35 AM
Minimum fee or startup cost is alot more understandable and looks a hole lot more honest than billing for "potential lost income".

perhaps that is more of what i was thinking about, the few jobs i had so far, i priced after estimated use of time and used a little more time than planned on some, and a little less time than planned than others, but as business practice i prefer to have the price to be set and decided before i start to work.

I am still new at this, but i am looking for a minimum acceptable price to do 3D....im open for any advises for how you guys run business aswell, do you take paid by real hours of work, or estimated hours of work?..will you ask for more money if it takes a longer time than estimated (when it is only becouse the estimate was wrong, not client changes) or will you refund if you are done faster?

*Pete*
01-09-2008, 07:45 AM
You say don't take it the wrong way well I took it the wrong way. So don't try to mask what you said with nice words at the end.

You took it the wrong way, Ted didnt say anything more than that you need to raise your price level up higher, as this will also lead to more respect from your clients...as for calling you "kid", as i suspect that is what you reacted on...we dont know your age and do not bother to check your personal info, however most of the time it just happens to be a hungry kid (hungry for cg career) who prices as low as you did.

Ted calling you a kid is a forgivable mistake, you taking the post the wrong way despite him asking you not to take it the wrong way makes you look sillyer than need to.

so, shake hands and be friends.

Wellcome to the forums Master Gaines.

calilifestyle
01-09-2008, 10:53 AM
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/salary here you go

ted
01-09-2008, 10:59 AM
Dragonkwon, wow, I am truely sorry if you were offended by me calling you kid. My bad. But you have to remember, I'm almost 50 years old! :D My eldest Son is almost your age. Kid was NOT intended to be an insult. Typed words don't always get read with their intent. I apologize.
I did say your work was decent. I didn't even say for a newbie. That was a compliment. :hey:

I've been doing this professionally for over 30 years which doesn't make me better, smarter or anything. But I have handled hundreds of business transactions and have experienced 3 decades of trends in the industry.
My "thoughts" on your price was what I thought you asked for.

I spend a lot of time on this forum and more in my market helping the newcomers get themselves started.
I learned a lot from the "old timers", and enjoy helping others.

One of the things I suggest is to charge enough to make a living, not live just for today.
There are plenty of people who will take advantage of young or old business people. To stay in business as long as I have, you sometimes need to say NO! Otherwise you'll never get what you deserve.

By the way everybody, thanks for explaining to this man my intent and the benefit of listening to all input. :thumbsup:

I wish you well and hope to see more of your work in the years to come.

ted
01-09-2008, 11:14 AM
do you take paid by real hours of work, or estimated hours of work?..will you ask for more money if it takes a longer time than estimated (when it is only becouse the estimate was wrong, not client changes) or will you refund if you are done faster?

I bid the job by estimation on the client’s information.
I bill the job by hours worked even if it's less then the bid, which doesn't happen often enough to worry about. :)

It's not uncommon, as people here will attest, that the job grows as the project progresses.
I keep track of what was done, and what changes were made.
Only a couple times in my career have I had clients complain and taken less than full pay for hours worked. Government jobs are the hardest to go over a bid regardless of how many changes or additions were made.

I just finished a job that went $5,000.00 over bid for a school district. They balked until I presented them with a list of why. Let me tell you, that extra $5,000.00 came in real handy over the holidays! And they loved the product.

Not saying this is the only way to do business, but it’s worked for me and it’s kept my doors open, mostly with return customers. JMHO.

*Pete*
01-09-2008, 11:21 AM
Intresting, thanks Ted.

I will try to estimate correctly, and to be flexible towards the customer when i miss, it can be a good way to keep a client in the future ;)

mrpapabeis
01-09-2008, 12:44 PM
MR.Ruiz

First of all I'm not a kid I'm 32 years old and a full time Master instructor of America's Dojo "www.americasdojo.com". I said in my first post I am new to this biz not business in general. I was trying to find a price range for this type of work without ripping people off. This is why I got into this because someone charged me $500 for a 30 second commercial that looked like ****. I don't intend to devalue anything or anyone I'm just trying to be an honest guy. I've delt with your kind in the martial arts business world and let me tell you, your the type of guy that gives this business a bad reputation. You say don't take it the wrong way well I took it the wrong way. So don't try to mask what you said with nice words at the end. I don't care for your kind of person or your business advice so please bow out of this conversation. But for the rest of you guys thank you for your feedback it helps alot

Master Gaines
32 year old "MAN"


Mr. Gaines,

I hope this finds you in good health and spirits.


1) $500 for a "commercial" is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Quality production is an amalgam of talent and technical ability. My minimum charge to edit a "commercial" is $2,500.

2) *Ted* was in my opinion being generous. I suggest study, practice, and doing the project over again with new eyes.

3) Apart from the technical aspects, my question would be what is the purpose of this video. What is it's aim? To promote? To get new students? To represent your art? A training video? Start with the inherent philosophy behind the project, and build the concept from that.

4) Rank has no meaning here. Welcome to your new white belt.



Thank You,


Mr. Papabeis

Steamthrower
01-09-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm sure Mr. Gaines is looking at this thread thinking, "what a bunch of stuck-up jerks - they think they're something".

I can assure you that though we take pride in what we do, this community has proven to be a very even-handed one. When giving critique almost invariably you'll get an honest forthright opinion, and very very rarely will you get true abuse...which you haven't gotten.

3D (and multimedia in general) is commonly considered to be one of the most difficult fields to master. It takes a lot of work. And it's prominent work, too, often - one in which $500 isn't much at all.

When dealing with local television stations like I have done on occasion, $500 is nothing. At the bare minimum the local studios will make a very low-budget 30-sec commercial for $500 - BUT then they charge $500 to $2000 more for each time they air it. So you're looking at even a local plumber paying $10k just for a short ad campaign.

Don't get us wrong. We all want to help.

Dragonkwon
01-09-2008, 12:56 PM
I want to apologize to Ted and everyone that was offended on the forum. My original post didn't elaborate the details surrounding the price I charged and the reasoning. For the record, that video was used to successfully secure the client for several longer term more lucrative projects for my video business as well as a large group for my wife's travel agency. By asking my question I simply wanted to get the "feel" of the industry right now to insure our other quotes for the client were in line with industry standards. Which they actually were:thumbsup: In the martial arts business we have helped many new school owners navigate our cut-throat industry and have dealt with the newbies that think they know everything. I apologize if I've appeared to be like that and appreciate all of the information and knowledge everyone here has provided and will hopefully continue to provide.

PS: Don't drink Redbull late at night and then get on the internet:cursin:

Sincerest apologies,

Master Gaines

Steamthrower
01-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Good luck in the video biz. You did come across as fairly "newbish" but...hey...that's what happens with Redbull...

Go chop 'em Joe!

http://www.extremefunnyhumor.com/pics/karate-cat.jpg

AbnRanger
01-09-2008, 02:18 PM
I want to apologize to Ted and everyone that was offended on the forum. My original post didn't elaborate the details surrounding the price I charged and the reasoning. For the record, that video was used to successfully secure the client for several longer term more lucrative projects for my video business as well as a large group for my wife's travel agency. By asking my question I simply wanted to get the "feel" of the industry right now to insure our other quotes for the client were in line with industry standards. Which they actually were:thumbsup: In the martial arts business we have helped many new school owners navigate our cut-throat industry and have dealt with the newbies that think they know everything. I apologize if I've appeared to be like that and appreciate all of the information and knowledge everyone here has provided and will hopefully continue to provide.

PS: Don't drink Redbull late at night and then get on the internet:cursin:

Sincerest apologies,

Master GainesYou secured him, or HE SECURED YOU? One pricing guide I have has video-editing starting at $100/hr. That's presuming a fair level of experience and skill is involved. You may try starting out for half that/hr...and down the road when you decide you MUST raise your rates, you can explain that those were "Introductory" rates...not your regular rate, and that you simply CANNOT afford to maintain your business at those rates. Any objective client (with some experience in this area) understands.
One thing to bear in mind is that, as a business...which even a freelance artist is...running a small proprietorship...that you have OVERHEAD (equipment and software, and training costs...electricity bills and rent, health insurance, etc.). When a company pays an hourly wage...there's none of these expenses involved. If you DO NOT account for these expenses and absorb them into your billing, the client most certainly will not. That's a VERY common mistake that many a prospective client will make...comparing your rate to what THEY make as an hourly employee.
Am I making any sense here?

THREEL
01-10-2008, 02:19 AM
Just my 2 cents worth here. What you charge can also depend on your location. Around my neck of the woods, a town with just over 8,000 people, there are more video producers than you can shake a stick at, believe-it-or-not. One of them is a local access station, and another is a man that has a video production company here in town, but runs a regional access station in a town, population 12,000-15,000, 30 minutes away. They make business bad for the rest of us by choosing to produce commercials for next to nil and picking up more money through running the ads on their stations. I don't have the luxury of owning, or running a TV station. Also, they have access to more hi-end equipment, paid for by either tax payers money, or the TV station.

Another group that makes it bad for the rest of us, is "pro" photographers who will throw video services into the mix for say weddings and the such for barely nothing that truely aren't professionally done. Many poeple around here have no idea what it takes to make a quality product and aren't willing to pay the price. I quoted someone locally $500 to do a wedding video which included 10 DVDs in the price, and they thought that was too expensive. I would have quoted them a more realistic price, but I knew even 500 bucks would be pushing the limit. Many people think you just shoot video for a couple of hours, and your done, completely done.

Make sure you get half up front: Recently, I did a bunch of CAD work for a company out of Texas. I was always told how good of a job I was doing, but never received one penny. They owe me almost $4,000, but now they're out of business, and I cannot locate them to pursue them for my money.

Make sure you know who you're dealing with: I produced an infomercial for a neighboring chamber of commerce only to find out that I had to send 2 separate bills and get approval from the chamber and the village. One committee is bad enough, let alone two.

Get it in writing: nuff said.

tHREEL, but you can call me AL.

Stooch
01-11-2008, 10:40 AM
reminds me of todd weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mNEnXVJFfw

Yeah, daily rate is based on portfolio and type or clients/work. that video you made is probably worth 100 bucks so it was fair .would take me about 30 minutes of tweaking and playing with random effects to pull it off, 5 hours was too long to spend to be honest.. If someone walks up to me with 100 bucks, i will gladly throw some text over video, but thats pretty much all they are getting (about 1 hour of my time, 2 if i like the client).

a typical freelance rate does start around 50/hr though. I wouldnt even bother with a project taht took less than 1 day unless im paid for the entire day.

ted
01-11-2008, 06:34 PM
Stooch, you really could have done that in 30 minutes? You da man! :D
I bet he spent at least an hour shooting it. Then time capturing it and posting it.
Not to mention pre-production time discussing the project, set-up, tear down and making the tape or DVD dub.

You sound like a couple of my clients. :D

Our shoot clock starts when we park the truck and trailer and stops when we drive off. We also charge for travel if more then 1/2 hour each way.
If shooting in our studio, I usually add 1/2 hour to set-up and 1/2 hour to tear down.
Our post time starts when we begin and ends when we hand off the dub or sometimes before we dub, depending.

A few new clients think we start when we roll tape and stop when we finish the last shot. WRONG! :hey:
Sometimes they want us to NOT bill if talent is late or we have to wait for the facility to get ready like stocking shelves etc. I tell them to penalize the talent or facility, not us.

We're not unflexible, but clients gotta realize there is much more to production then rolling a tape and sticking it on a DVD.
I'm paying my guys long before we roll tape and long after we stop. I should be paid also.

While I'm rambling, the above is the main reason we bill by the hour and NOT by the job.
I quickly realized how much more prepared the client is for the shoot and edit when they are paying for my time. I could give a kazillion reasons and examples, but the few projects I've done for a flat fee resulted in numerous delays, excuses and changes. Never more.
My clients and I stay friends because we are not trying to squeeze more time and I'm not trying to cut corners to save my arse.

Dragonkwon
01-11-2008, 07:49 PM
reminds me of todd weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mNEnXVJFfw

Yeah, daily rate is based on portfolio and type or clients/work. that video you made is probably worth 100 bucks so it was fair .would take me about 30 minutes of tweaking and playing with random effects to pull it off, 5 hours was too long to spend to be honest.. If someone walks up to me with 100 bucks, i will gladly throw some text over video, but thats pretty much all they are getting (about 1 hour of my time, 2 if i like the client).

a typical freelance rate does start around 50/hr though. I wouldnt even bother with a project taht took less than 1 day unless im paid for the entire day.If you can really do this in 30 minutes your hired. Let me know when your ready to go to work. Not kidding!

Stooch
01-12-2008, 11:24 AM
Stooch, you really could have done that in 30 minutes? You da man! :D
I bet he spent at least an hour shooting it. Then time capturing it and posting it.
Not to mention pre-production time discussing the project, set-up, tear down and making the tape or DVD dub.


would take me about 30 minutes of tweaking and playing with random effects to pull it off

you know it doesnt take a higher order of intellect to see that im talking about working with existing footage. If you assume otherwise, you are just doing it for arguments sake or lack professional experience (100 bucks wouldnt even cover rental). I do not offer camera services, 3D generalist is a pretty unambiguous title isnt it? Yes i can take any footage, throw some effects on it and some text and can do it in under 30 minutes. Honestly all of my motion/compositor friends are capable of this, so it shouldnt be shocking to anyone.

most of the effects are holds, ie very few keyframes. What exactly is so difficult here? If i had to shoot footage as well i can see it taking 1-2 hours, but we all know your footage sessions only go as fast as the subject of the footage allows you. And to further point out how ridiculous this assumption is, i wouldnt even bother for 100 dollars with anything that requires footage. Infact as stated in my original post, i wouldnt bother with a project thats worth less than 1 days rate.


If you can really do this in 30 minutes your hired. Let me know when your ready to go to work. Not kidding!
no thanks. Firstly stuff like that bores me, i find it too easy. Problem with things that are too easy is that they become grunt work and kill enthusiasm. plus im pretty content with my job right now where i get to blow things up all day :)

p.s. Are people seriously impressed by some of those canned effects over footage? If you guys are seriously looking for some high quality after effects work - I can refer you to my friend.. He does sound design as well.

ted
01-12-2008, 12:19 PM
you know it doesnt take a higher order of intellect to see that im talking about working with existing footage.

But Dragonkwon wasn't, as I suspected.
No, I didn't think you included the shoot time.
I did use your generalization, not to mock what you missed my friend :) , but to demonstrate what we are faced with daily.

People don't know what they are talking about when they "claim" we are charging too much and it shouldn't take as long as it does. Not usually because they are evil.
It's because they don't realize how much time is really involved.
This is a great example, even among our industry "generalists" that I wanted to point out.
No wonder the "outsiders" don't get it. :hey:

Heck, I bet people don't realize how much time it takes to make an animated animal "simply" dance to Z Z Top. But if you say it will take 15 hours, I'd have to believe you because I'm not the one doing it.
This is one reason I like the client to be with me. He'll see that we aren't wasting his time or money once he sees what's involved.

I would like to see a Bear dancing to Z Z top though. :D

Stooch
01-13-2008, 07:59 AM
honestly ted when i looked at the piece of work we are discussing it did not strike me that he spent alot of time setting up a camera and lights. it doesnt look like he did :)

did i spy some green screen bleed on his face at some points?

Stooch
01-13-2008, 08:07 AM
But Dragonkwon wasn't, as I suspected.
No, I didn't think you included the shoot time.
No you clearly did.



This is a great example, even among our industry "generalists" that I wanted to point out.
No wonder the "outsiders" don't get it. :hey:
see. you are either contradicting your first statement or havent been reading my posts... if you agreed taht my pricing didnt include the shoot time, why are you even talking about this right now?

Dragonkwon
01-13-2008, 12:15 PM
Stooch, it sounds like your trying to start an argument so here's something for you to complain about. YOU SUCK! YOUR FIRED! GAME OVER!:thumbsdow

ted
01-13-2008, 04:40 PM
Stooch, DUDE, I was trying to give you a break for telling Dragonkwon it should have taken no more then 30 minutes. Read:
"I did use your generalization, not to mock what you missed my friend :) , but to demonstrate what we are faced with daily."

I clearly disclaimed "not to mock you" and called you "my friend". Hmmmm?
But I did feel the need to point out this guy didn't spend 5 hours to do the comp.
That then led me to vent how clients don't always understand how much work is involved to give them a video.

Hardly an attempt to start an argument. Let me know what riled you and I'll re-think my wording.

Instead of extending this, I deleted about 10 lines. Moving on. :D

Stooch
01-13-2008, 05:35 PM
Stooch, it sounds like your trying to start an argument so here's something for you to complain about. YOU SUCK! YOUR FIRED! GAME OVER!:thumbsdow

hahahaha coming from you?

lol. thanks for the laugh. sorry to upset you but your project is worth no more than 100 bucks. Because you rock so much.

Stooch
01-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Stooch, DUDE, I was trying to give you a break for telling Dragonkwon it should have taken no more then 30 minutes. Read:
"I did use your generalization, not to mock what you missed my friend :) , but to demonstrate what we are faced with daily.":D

its ok, i stand by my original statement. the project looks like it would take about 2 hours for a pro including footage and about half an hour if the footage existed already. so 50/hr would work for this project imo. of course if i was looking to spend 50/hr i wouldnt hire that guy ;)

oh and darkwon, you are in no position to "fire" anyone.

AbnRanger
01-13-2008, 10:03 PM
Stooch, it sounds like your trying to start an argument so here's something for you to complain about. YOU SUCK! YOUR FIRED! GAME OVER!:thumbsdowHow old did you say you were? You're demeanor here is that of a 13yr old.
First, you blow up and start insulting someone who was trying to give you good advice. Secondly, you're breaking the forum rules by hurling blatantly personal insults at another member.
This is off topic, but I still think it needs to be said...you had better learn to use some self-restraint...and fast...with that Martial Arts background. You fly off the handle one night in a bar, and the next thing you know is that you're in a jail cell, looking at some serious time for seriously hurting someone. The human body can be very resilient, but is also very fragile. One blow can mess up your life and many others. A hot-head like yourself really has no business in the Martial Arts field, IMO...the reason being that RESTRAINT is a major empahsis in the marital arts. It seems you have none, and therefore are in jeapordy of abusing what you have learned.

I say all of this because years ago, when I got out of the Army, I 'wooped-up' on a thief and got into some trouble of my own for taking matters into my own hands (when I could have just as easily used ONLY enough force to subdue the guy til cops got there). The fact that I was a former Army Ranger was used against me, so you can better believe that they will use your Martial Arts training against you, if you harm someone. Tuck that little piece of advice into your back pocket, and make use of it the next time you're tempted to "Go-Off" on somebody.

Dragonkwon
01-13-2008, 11:11 PM
How old did you say you were? You're demeanor here is that of a 13yr old.
First, you blow up and start insulting someone who was trying to give you good advice. Secondly, you're breaking the forum rules by hurling blatantly personal insults at another member.
This is off topic, but I still think it needs to be said...you had better learn to use some self-restraint...and fast...with that Martial Arts background. You fly off the handle one night in a bar, and the next thing you know is that you're in a jail cell, looking at some serious time for seriously hurting someone. The human body can be very resilient, but is also very fragile. One blow can mess up your life and many others. A hot-head like yourself really has no business in the Martial Arts field, IMO...the reason being that RESTRAINT is a major empahsis in the marital arts. It seems you have none, and therefore are in jeapordy of abusing what you have learned.

I say all of this because years ago, when I got out of the Army, I 'wooped-up' on a thief and got into some trouble of my own for taking matters into my own hands (when I could have just as easily used ONLY enough force to subdue the guy til cops got there). The fact that I was a former Army Ranger was used against me, so you can better believe that they will use your Martial Arts training against you, if you harm someone. Tuck that little piece of advice into your back pocket, and make use of it the next time you're tempted to "Go-Off" on somebody.I hear what your saying and believe me I would never do anything to hurt someone else on purpose. I just asked a simple question and this is what it turned into. My bad! I am new to the video world and it seems that some want to help but others just poke fun at your work. I understand there's some very talented people on this forum and I can learn alot from these guys. So with this being said I hope this ends this little thread.

Stooch
01-14-2008, 01:47 PM
dude. listen to what i said. i gave you valid advice. 50 dollars an hour is a very good rate for GA. I know because i lived in GA when going to SCAD for 4 years and know the kind of clients you will run into. i bet you that 25 an hour is easier to get there but if you get 50 then you are golden. i doubt you will get much more than that from local population. everyone seems to know that there are plenty of SCAD students will to work for peanuts. but if you get steady work at 25 dollars per hour then do it.
i had some really dumbass clients in GA who wanted to pay the absolute minimum. NEVER cave in to them, explain why you need more just dont be an ***. Money is just harder to come by it seems, i think GA is all old money, thats why.

as far as my comments, i believe that your work needs a little polish before you really deserve 50 an hour, especially for GA. but if you can get it then why not right? just realistically if you are going to do work for someone local who knows what they are doing, they will probably offer 25 an hour, which for you would be fair. Knowing the cost of living around there.