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timtobrien
01-01-2008, 07:05 AM
I upgraded my computer to a Dell XPS 720 planning to have my Video Editing running on the same machine I use everyday.

I bought the VT5 upgrade since that was the only way to get a Vista driver.

I tried yesterday to install the card in this machine and it was not recognized in any of the PCI slots (Slot 3, Slot 5 and Slot 6). I also removed my Sound Blaster card before trying this...

My VT card is old... It started as a VT1 and was running fine in my other Dell workstation as a VT4....

I am just a hobbiest and have made $0 with my VT over the last 5years so I will have a better chance at upgrading my wife then getting her to let me upgrade the card!

Does anyone have any idea's why this machine would not find the card or what I can do?

Thanks for your assistance.... I will proably call Tech support tomorrow when they are open but if I can fix it today that is even better!

:help:

ted
01-01-2008, 12:48 PM
Was it not seen by the computer or was the computer not able to find the driver?
If it couldn't even see the card you might have a dead card, but I'm just guessing.

goodrichm
01-01-2008, 01:04 PM
A couple years ago, this happened to me when I upgrade to a Dell 670. My VTNT card (VT1 software) worked great in my Dell 420, but the Dell 670 wouldn't recognize it. Donny O at Tech Supt had me send the VTNT in to NewTek. I also called Dell to see what they had to say and found out that the DEll 420 card slots had both 3.3 & 5VDC on them, but the Dell 670 no longer used 5VDC. NewTek engineering got a Dell 670 in to test and found a way to get the card to work with it. They shipped me a card and I haven't had a problem since (knock on wood).

Long story short...call Tech Supt and hopefully they'll sort it out for you...MG

timtobrien
01-02-2008, 11:24 AM
The board just is not seen by the machine... When booting I check the PCI slots and the BIOS does not even indicate there is a board in the slot. There also are not any LED's lighted on the VT board when it is in....

I do not see any support for 66mhz PCI slot for this board ... Very strange that Dell/NVIDIA would have not made 66mhz available on this since it is thier top tier performance system. I thought the board would work in either 33mhz or 66mhz speeds... does anyone know if it will function in a 33mhz slot?

I do not see anything about voltage on the dell site...

I will be calling tech support tonight if I get home before 5:30cst.

===

Dell XPS 720 Computer Information (From Dell's Site)

Chipset: NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI

Northbridge:C55XE

Southbridge: MCP55PXE

PCI (SLOT3, SLOT5, SLOT6)

Connector: three

Connector size: 124 pins

Connector data width (maximum) : 32 bits

Bus speed: 33 MHz

goodrichm
01-02-2008, 02:18 PM
In my case, the older VTNT card worked on 33MHz and 100MHz. I had it installed in the Dell 420 which only had PCI 33MHz slots.

The one Tech Support sent back to me was also the older VTNT card and I installed it in one of my Dell 670's PCI-X 100MHz slots. It has worked the past 2 years (knock on wood)...MG

rbartlett
01-02-2008, 02:54 PM
I would guide Dell towards an omission of the 5V rail. 5V is a legacy rail but VT is a card that spans PCI slots over many years. A 66MHz slot isn't required but is welcomed on older computers because it hails the likelihood that the bandwidth allocation will be less likely to be stolen or depleted by another peripheral.

It is unusual for a BIOS setup screen to list the presence of a card but the often hidden BIOS PnP startup usually lists multimedia devices (controller).

NewTek is PCI Vendor ID 149d
VT is PCI ID 0001

If that isn't coming up, then it is a base level hardware issue you need to overcome (rather than a driver or a chipset clash).

The C55XE/MCP55PXE isn't a combination I'm familiar with, but I've not known it to be fussy with older PCI NICs and wireless cards (that also have this tendency to use 5V rails).

I'd give Dell a good lashing and then see if NewTek can do any magic (on the same lines as they did for Mark).

timtobrien
01-02-2008, 09:38 PM
I missed NewTek tech support today but hope to catch them on 1/3.

I did speak with Dell support and they claim the XPS 720 should power any PCI card with 3.3v or 5v power.

This is good news I think since it seems the card should work... Now I will need to check with the "3rd Party Vendor" as dell said to see if we can determine the issue.

Thanks again and any info on this is always appreciated.

badllarma
01-03-2008, 12:38 AM
Hi timtobrien,
I've been having Exactly the same problems my old work station died (C drive then motherboard) so decided to build a new one myself and I've had the same issue to the letter with my new build been through two mother boards and two full copies of VT 5.0 software and having the same problems Newtek Europe sending my out another VT card on the 7th Jan to try.

First mother board was a Gigabyte P35C-DS3R

My second (at great expence I might add ) is a Abit IN9 32X Max (Nviidia NForce 680i SLI) and thats a £170.00 board!
Also here is another thread with simal issues
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76965
you are not alone mate i would get in touch ASAP with Newtek Support :thumbsup:

BTW mine is also a very old VT 2.0 Card I wonder if there is an issue with these cards :confused:

timtobrien
01-04-2008, 06:29 AM
First Dell told me the XPS 720 could handle both 3.3v and 5v cards... Then I was hearing that PCI V3 did not support 5v anymore. So I sent another question to Dell and this is the final answer they gave:

===

Hello Tim,

Upon reviewing the specification and speaking with a few of my colleagues, we came to the conclusion that your "NewTek Video Toaster PCI card" will not function with the XPS 720 motherboard as the voltage outputs are 3.3v per PCI bus. These systems have PCI 2 specifications. You have other options to get this to work with the computer, but they are external options. There are PCI to USB enclosures available, this option will be up to you to research as the device that is having issues is legacy.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Slav
0112877
XPS Email Support

===

Can someone confirm this is indeed a 5v card... all I see is "PCI". :confused:


I hope top make it home TODAY from work early to call NewTek support...

Thanks again for any info!

ted
01-07-2008, 06:55 PM
I "think" it's a 5v card, but again would hope NewTek...er...John Perkins chimes in.

At least Dell gave you a response!
I wish you luck.

timtobrien
01-07-2008, 10:00 PM
I just completed a call to the NewTek technical support. I explained my initial findings that the Dell XPS 720 (NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI) does not support 5v PCI cards he informed me that the VT2 card would not work in this computer and there was nothing more that he could do.

This was a sad ending to my issues and I had hoped for something more. I have had great results previously and have always heard good things about the “magic” NewTek support could perform.

It is sad to think my PC upgrade path has been abruptly ended. I have never heard of the PCI 5v requirement before and was surprised to hear that this is being completely removed from PCI V3 systems so all new systems will automatically not support VT 5v cards.

I have spent thousands of dollars on VT and upgrades over the years. I had assumed that I was investing in a total package that would give me professional level results for years to come.

This is not an upgrade issue of card functionality but an issue of system survivability. I imagine there are a fair number of 5v VT cards out there and when it comes time to have to upgrade then the card cost will make us re-evalute our options... Especially hobbiest such as myself.

I guess I just had hoped for a little more NewTek magic... :lwicon:

If anyone has any other idea's please let me know...

Thanks!

ted
01-07-2008, 10:29 PM
Tim, I really feel for you and it does suck that technology can often leave us stranded.

However, this isn't NewTek's fault. To put it gently, this is why you need to do the homework and or use a dealer.
Many times you luck out and save a few bucks, but somethimes this happens.

Not what you want to hear, but is there any way you can get Dell to work with you?
I sincerely wish you luck.

PIZAZZ
01-08-2008, 08:02 AM
If anyone has any other idea's please let me know...

Thanks!

Here is another idea since you asked... (first off sorry to hear about your pain)

Return the Dell. Get your money back.

Give me a call.

I have a brand new Quad Core that can have your name on it.

I will GUARANTEE VT will work appropriately. Oh and by the way... Ours is cheaper than the Dell. (PS and it works ;) )

badllarma
01-08-2008, 09:40 AM
Well my card arrived from Newtek Europe today so I'll get it in ASAP and see if that solves my problem, how about trying an enclosure?

I don't really want to fork out for a new VT card myself so just hope it's not a simalr problem. :confused:

timtobrien
01-08-2008, 12:01 PM
I have not had a dealer in the past because I live here in Maine and there is not a dealer close to me or in the entire state! I am just a tinkerer so I do not have 1000's of dollars of equipment just a consumer HD camera, some green screen and one light to play with my 6year old son with.

I did do some researching but never heard of the obsolete PCI voltage:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76159
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75526

I imagine there must still be 100's of VT owners out there who are hobbiest's or just occasional VT users who have a 5v card still. These people are unaware of this issue and NewTek is just ignoring this base of users.

I was unhappy when NewTek did not provide a VT4 driver for Vista but decided to upgrade to VT5 to get the driver and new software functions.

That the pre-VT4 cards/software will end with Windows XP and pre-PCI v2.4 machines and there is no mention of this anywhere I have found other then this post is very dishertining.

I know for a few thousand dollars I can upgrade my card but I feel as a VT-Amiga to VTNT1-VT5 owner I have paid for alot of development and to have my loyalty and longevity disregarded is disappointing.

I appoligize for this attitude but it is sad for me to think that I will need to sell my XP/VT system and find something new that will work in my new system and at a price I can afford. I was always excited to be part of the video revolution but now I feel I am left behind.

SBowie
01-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Ya know, the notion that the board would be the constant and the software would be upgraded was pretty radical when VT was designed and introduced.

Really, when you look back over its history, it's astonishing how well it's worked, and how much utility has been added over the years. Even if there were no motherboards available that do work just fine, this would have been pretty impressive. Only now - after how many years (?) - we're starting to see some manufacturers beginning to view the 5v rail as a legacy item they can drop.

To be honest, it seems like Dell (and any others following the same course) are the ones who have made an arbitrary decision to no longer extend support for many still very serviceable devices. Jef's suggestion above seems like one worth chewing over. Apart from that, a friendly chat with Tech Support might result in the miracle 'cure' someone else reported above (these are just the user boards - you can't always expect NewTek to respond here.)

In the next generation of hdwe. from NewTek, it seems passing likely we'll be into PCI-e - problem resolved, if so.

badllarma
01-08-2008, 01:43 PM
I think at the very least Newtek should at least send you another VT 2 card to try because I've had the same issues on 2 new motherboards and so far the one I have been sent DOES seem to be working :thumbsup:

I've done a full power down over night so if the PC detects it in the morning it is a fault with an old card in fact comparing the 2 VT 2 cards, my old one has different chips (or maybe just older ones of the same type) and components on it to the one I have recieved today so it could still be an issue with a very old VT 2 card.

I'd give Newtek Support another try and at least get them to send out a replacement VT 2 card to TRY :)

timtobrien
01-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Does anyone have a Tech support email ID I can submit my issue to or should I just send it to the generic Tech support. I would be curious if there would be a cheaper way to get the VT2 cards to run at 3.3v somehow or something magical thay may be able to accomplish...

Well I wish I would have known before I had upgraded to this PC but I didnt and I have too much time invested to ditch it. Dell is following the PCI specifications and when the motherboard venders start PCI V3 there will be NO support for 5v boards from anyone.

Thanks for any emails or additional information on this...

PIZAZZ
01-09-2008, 07:54 AM
Does anyone have a Tech support email ID I can submit my issue to or should I just send it to the generic Tech support. I would be curious if there would be a cheaper way to get the VT2 cards to run at 3.3v somehow or something magical thay may be able to accomplish...

Well I wish I would have known before I had upgraded to this PC but I didnt and I have too much time invested to ditch it. Dell is following the PCI specifications and when the motherboard venders start PCI V3 there will be NO support for 5v boards from anyone.

Thanks for any emails or additional information on this...

Tim there are many many motherboards available to us system builders that support 3V and 5V PCI cards. Dell just doesn't use them.

I am serious about my offer. If you are in the return window for the Dell then send it back. We can fix you up with something just as powerful and affordable that works for sure with the VT.

Regarding your request to speak to someone directly from NewTek, I will make a few appropriate people aware of your situation and get them involved. It helps to have friends in the right places.

Hang in there, we will get you figured out.

timtobrien
01-09-2008, 10:35 AM
Unfortunatly I cannot return the XPS 720... I will take this as a life lesson that using professional dealers really does save you money and time! It is a shame becasue my old Dell 530 workstation was a great machine for several years and had anticipated the Dell 720 to be even better!

My frustration is from my desire to stay with NewTek for all thier great features but the lack of a corporate account to write my purchase off from.
Couple this with a major error in hardware selection (assuming PCI = PCI) and you have a broke person with a broke system. :foreheads :foreheads

Thanks again for your assistance, feedback and offers. Please let me know if you do hear something from your connections! :thumbsup:

badllarma
01-09-2008, 07:29 PM
I know what I would do find a motherboard that works with the Processor Ram etc you have in the Dell and with the VT card then rip the current mother board out of the Dell and replace it with one that works with your processor, power supply, ram and of course the VT card.

Maybe PIZAZZ could point you in the right direction if he knows the full spec of the Dell :) For a sutable motherboard.

BTW after 10 full power down and backup over night shut downs etc my issue WAS the old VT 2 card that has now been replaced by Newtek :thumbsup:

Pete Draves
01-09-2008, 10:17 PM
A newtek approved jumper could be added to pick up power from the daughtercard power connector or an external plug from a hard drive connector.
A fix could be very simple.
Pete

rbartlett
01-10-2008, 07:54 AM
There is a 3.3V and 5V rail thing going on between these standards but fundamentally the difference between 3.3V and 5V operation is on the swing of the data, address and control lines. Quite a bit more than just dropping a wire in there.

Notably, Dell use a proprietary case and motherboard combo that ensures that you don't upgrade yourself. Same as Apple. Some brand names use industry standard sized parts. Dell have hit below the belt and have been known to use an ATX power plug but to wire it differently. Disastrous consequences.

Doesn't mean they don't pack a punch for value for money and telephone support. Pointless to me though. I like to keep myself afloat.

Yeah, try NewTek for a loaner card. Or consider a sidecar PCIexpress to PCI expansion unit. (I've a few in mind, but it may be that these are no good either. Remember they have to support PCI overlay to a DMA surface on your graphics card, these are rather more demanding requirements than many of the other uses for such an external expansion cradle).

timtobrien
01-14-2008, 05:03 PM
Hi...

I am proably being a bit too impatient but...

I have not heard from anyone at Newtek and that is including emails to East Coast Sales, Technical Support, Customer Service...

Do you think I should customer service and speak to someone there or does anyone have other suggestions... Let me know and thanks!

rbartlett
01-15-2008, 08:05 AM
I would phone tech-support in San Antonio and mention what Mark Goodrich explained NewTek did for him when he picked up a Dell Precision 670. See if they think this is the same issue and ask them if they are able to repeat the same piece of work for you. They may have another reply by now or the work they did may be unrepeatable or irrelevant for your VT board revision.

If swapping your XPS 720 is impossible, then perhaps upgrading to a VTPro would suffice. Again, the first place to ask is NewTek tech-support.

goodrichm
01-15-2008, 08:40 AM
I searched thru some old notes and found:

In Jan 2005, Donny at Tech Supt (Tel: 210-341-8444) worked with the Engineering Section to get a card to work with the Dell 670. Also, it was mentioned that a "REV-F" board might work.

Hope this gets sorted out soon and that it's a simple fix...MG