PDA

View Full Version : How To Prevent Plagiarism In An Educational Setting?



MysteryMonkey
12-23-2007, 10:15 AM
I'm looking for some opinions and ideas from anyone that has to deal with originality of work.

I just wrapped up my second semester of teaching a class in animation and modeling using LightWave. I'm still working out the kinks but this semester went much better than the first one, and I expect the future ones will be even better. Unfortunately this semester I had a student that was taking models from somewhere and claiming them as original work done for the class. It was obvious to almost everyone in the class (including myself) some of the modeling was not original work. When one class a student can barely model a coffee cup and then the next the student has a full human figure model with defined features like fingers, muscles, and facial detail. When asked about where the model came from the student replied a lot of work over the weekend had made it possible. (Yeah a lot of surfing the program contents or the internet for free models to take and claim as one's own) I was eventually able to track down that model and confronted the student with what I knew. Now the thing about plagiarism at my school is that you must be able to positively prove it happened and you must be able to prove the student knew what they were doing was wrong. Basically the student gets a free pass on the first case of plagiarism and then they get a warning not to do it again (how stupid is that?) All that teaches a determined cheater is they won't be punished for trying and if they do get caught they get a do-over. A second incident of proven plagiarism can get a student expelled, but they get a freebie first. I have to say that almost everyone else in the class worked hard and exceeded my expectations, and all of them (except for that one) did original work.

It is a big pain to have to try and track down models that you know exceed the ability of a student, but you need to prove it. After that incident I required that all students must turn in the model and scene files they are using for their assignments. I'm afraid that may not go far enough though to prevent this kind of activity so I'm thinking I will require they must turn in incremental saves to their models too so I can see and validate their work in progress on the models. Has anyone tried that and how did that work out? Anyway, what methods do you use to prevent plagiarism? Any brilliant ideas out there?

(( As a side comment to any plagiarist out there reading this, what do you think you're going to accomplish by claiming another's work as your own in school? If you don't do the work in school, what is it you are trying to accomplish? Are you trying to eventually get a job modeling and/or animating? So what is going to happen if you should eventually get a job? If you haven't learned how to model are you going to try to keep using work from others and claiming it as your own? Just how long do you expect to keep that up before you get caught and fired? Maybe you'll get sued for theft and copyright infringement? Even if your using a royalty free model, what do you think your boss will say when he/she learns he/she has been paying you to model something and you haven't done the work you were paid for? You don't get do-overs. If you can't do the work maybe you should consider a different career. No need for you plagiarist to answer really. I'm just making a comment for you to think on. ))

M.Monkey

StevieB
12-23-2007, 10:29 AM
Enough said right there. Cheating and plagerism come around to bite you in the but eventually. What you don't learn now you'll have to learn or use later and then your screwed. I woudn't know how to stop it though but I know my school needs whatever it is bad.

beverins
12-23-2007, 10:54 AM
an idea or two:

How long are your classes? Is it feasible to have them take an examination in-class where you posit a model that they have to build? Such as you say "they have problems building a coffee cup". Its hard to grade, but its more of just a way to tell if they know what they say they know.

Another option is to give them schematics or scanned images of something which they have to turn into a 3d object. With this, there would be little room for Turbosquid or other venues as you would be sure to pick a very particular object that is going to be a real pain to find on the internet, if not impossible. A particular teacup, with distinctive design perhaps... or a strange remote control from a real old vcr.

I like the incremental saves idea, but you have to be wary of these cheaters who just download the object and then restore the points they have deleted, over time. I know you would be able to tell, but its hard to "prove".

tischbein3
12-23-2007, 11:27 AM
Anyway, what methods do you use to prevent plagiarism? Any brilliant ideas out there?

screenshot per around half an hour during the modeling process.
Faster to create / more easily to be revised (right word ?) by you.

Like incremental save this is also a great oppertunety to ask about the different modeling steps between the images...not only to cover up plagiarism...

(BTW: stealing seems to me the better description for this)

avkills
12-23-2007, 11:56 AM
Man that stinks. Of course they are really hurting themselves in the end. I do not have any traditional training in lightwave, so personally I have no problems buying a model off of TurboSquid if it makes my job easier and faster. But I am also not very good at modeling.

With that said, if I were to take a class, I sure as hell would not do what he did since that defeats the whole purpose of the class.

I'd probably flunk him; unless there are rules prohibiting that.

-mark

dvps
12-23-2007, 11:56 AM
Hello
Everyone, I Have A NT22 Codec Error Can Anyone PointMe To This NT22 Codec Download Site Have A Tricaster Video File And It Want't Play at all is there anyone that can help me thanks,

Titus
12-23-2007, 11:57 AM
MysteryMonkey:

First, let me say I disagree completely with plagiarism. I don't know much about your school but it seems you have the sort of traditional education.

I've some experience teaching animation to art students and we don't focus in teaching a set of steps, memorize buttons, etc. The basic idea is they have the opportunity to produce something using all the options they discover, even to use free models from the web. It's amazing how much they can do knowing just a small portion of the software, instead of using the mechanical way of teaching.

avkills
12-23-2007, 12:00 PM
MysteryMonkey:

First, let me say I disagree completely with plagiarism. I don't know much about your school but it seems you have the sort of traditional education.

I've some experience teaching animation to art students and we don't focus in teaching a set of steps, memorize buttons, etc. The basic idea is they have the opportunity to produce something using all the options they discover, even to use free models from the web. It's amazing how much they can do knowing just a small portion of the software, instead of using the mechanical way of teaching.

Well if the class being taught is modeling skills, then I would say using free models off of the web is wrong and detrimental to the student, in that he/she will not learn how to model. Now if the teacher supplies a reference model to aid the students, that is different and it will be obvious if they just copied it.

-mark

Titus
12-23-2007, 12:06 PM
Well if the class being taught is modeling skills, then I would say using free models off of the web is wrong and detrimental to the student, in that he will not learn how to model.



I was sure my comment was going to be misunderstood. Of course using existing models is bad for THIS class, but if you use another approach for teaching in the sense your students learn in the process (eg. give them a set of models and let them modify) then everyone wins.

avkills
12-23-2007, 12:09 PM
I was sure my comment was going to be misunderstood. Of course using existing models is bad for THIS class, but if you use another approach for teaching in the sense your students learn in the process (eg. give them a set of models and let them modify) then everyone wins.

I agree. A lot can be learned from looking at other models and discovering what approaches others make.

-mark

Steamthrower
12-23-2007, 12:19 PM
So basically, MysteryMonkey, your problem is that you give assignments to your students and then they plagiarise in order to complete those assignments?

First, it's utterly stupid to plagiarise. It hurts everyone in the long run; your customer, yourself, and the original creator. But, that said, folks are stupid so perhaps it seems intelligent to them.

Secondly I can't believe that someone would be doltish enough to pick up a model out of the Lightwave content CD. Come on. That's like imbecilic.

But perhaps you can give your students assignments that are very unique. Like, instead of instructing a beginner modeler to model a coffee cup, you can give him some oddball object like a "Digitech wah pedal". Something rare enough so that if you do suspect someone's plagiarising, you can find it much much easier. For instance:

A Google search for "coffee cup 3d model": http://www.google.com/search?q=coffee+cup+3d+model&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

A Google search for a "Digitech wah pedal 3d model":
http://www.google.com/search?q=digitech+wah+pedal+3d+model&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

Dunno...I'm thinking it would work. How large of classes are you teaching?

MysteryMonkey
12-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Man that stinks. Of course they are really hurting themselves in the end. I do not have any traditional training in lightwave, so personally I have no problems buying a model off of TurboSquid if it makes my job easier and faster. But I am also not very good at modeling.

With that said, if I were to take a class, I sure as hell would not do what he did since that defeats the whole purpose of the class.

I'd probably flunk him; unless there are rules prohibiting that.

-mark

Hi Mark,

I'm in complete agreement with you. I think buying models off of TurboSquid (or using the free models too) is a legitimate practice under the right circumstance. I've used a few of the free models found there for an architectural presentation project in the past, and I made sure people knew about it too. . . It is just inconceivable to me that a student who was taking a class that had the goals of modeling and animating those models would do something like this. I guess I shouldn't be surprised really, but it is still beyond my comprehension what one accomplishes by doing that.

At my school the most serious consequences for the first proven case of plagiarism can get a student an "F" for that assignment, and a warning to not do it again. If the loss of points for that assignment is enough the student may end up with an "F" for the semester. The second case of plagiarism can results in a failing grade for the semester, possible suspension from the school for a year, or an expulsion for 2 years. I don't understand my school. it just seems to me that if I warn my students of the consequences of plagiarism at the beginning of a semester they should not get a do-over. I think they should get the boot and good riddance to them. All of my students were told I expected them to do original work so there wasn't any legitimate excuse for this happening. I gave lectures on how to do what I was expected of them, and I was available to answer their questions for at least 6 hours a week. There just isn't a good excuse for this kind of behavior.

Oh well.

M.Monkey

gatz
12-23-2007, 12:58 PM
You're the instructor and you're doing the grading. Does it matter if the student is expelled or otherwise disciplined? If you are convinced that the work is beyond skills previously demonstrated, and you've found a remarkably similar model, call him on it. Grade him accordingly. Advise him not to use "repurposed" work in his portfolio because an industry black mark lasts a lot longer than a bad grade.

Don't go down the tract where you're implementing the academic equivalent of spineless management. Creating new convoluted policies to address isolated instances of bad behavior isn't fair to folks following the rules. Think copy protection.

rg

Exception
12-23-2007, 01:09 PM
What about assignment where it's almost impossible to find something on the web?
Like have them take a photograph of one of the shops in the street of the school, and let them model whatever is in the photo?
Or think up some kind of odd monster with square tentacles that eats train carriages. I bet even turbosquid doesn't offer that?

Just some thoughts...

MysteryMonkey
12-23-2007, 01:32 PM
So basically, MysteryMonkey, your problem is that you give assignments to your students and then they plagiarise in order to complete those assignments?

First, it's utterly stupid to plagiarise. It hurts everyone in the long run; your customer, yourself, and the original creator. But, that said, folks are stupid so perhaps it seems intelligent to them.


It really hurts the morale of the other students in the class that are doing their best when they see someone doing this too. To the best of my knowledge it has only been this one student so far. The rest have a right to be proud of their own work.



Secondly I can't believe that someone would be doltish enough to pick up a model out of the Lightwave content CD. Come on. That's like imbecilic.


What can I say. It happened. The student had started using a second model from the content folder (Zombie model) for the hand assignment but this time the student was a little more sophisticated. The student took a full figure and deleted everything but the hand. For some reason the student chickened out turning in that one and switched to trying to make one from scratch. That wasn't a great model, but it was unique. More problems with plagiarism came up after the limited success with the hand model, but that story is too long to go into here.



But perhaps you can give your students assignments that are very unique. Like, instead of instructing a beginner modeler to model a coffee cup, you can give him some oddball object like a "Digitech wah pedal". Something rare enough so that if you do suspect someone's plagiarising, you can find it much much easier. . . Dunno...I'm thinking it would work. How large of classes are you teaching?

I may have to do that but I do like the coffee cup assignment because they have to make 2 cups. One using the bevel tool, and one using splines and the lathe tool. Kind of giving them an idea that there is always more than one way to make anything. . . No matter what the first assignment(s) is going to be eventually they are going to move onto making a figure and then I'll have the same potential problem.

For right now there is only one section of this course and that class has a maximum of 16 students. The class meets for 2 hr 45 min twice a week, but honestly I often spend an extra 45 minute after each class in there helping out. Right now I'm thinking that maybe having them do an incremental save once per class of every model they are working on, maybe accompanied by a screen shot or render too.

It really is a shame that I have to make all the students do something like that when its only one rotten apple causing the problem, but I can't select one out of the group.

M.Monkey

MysteryMonkey
12-23-2007, 02:26 PM
You're the instructor and you're doing the grading. Does it matter if the student is expelled or otherwise disciplined? If you are convinced that the work is beyond skills previously demonstrated, and you've found a remarkably similar model, call him on it. Grade him accordingly. Advise him not to use "repurposed" work . . .


The student was advised I knew where the model came and was graded accordingly and we had a discussion about plagiarism. I asked if they knew why it was wrong to plagiarize and the response I got was, "Because you don't learn how to anything if you do." I thought my point had been made at the point in time, but I was wrong.



Don't go down the tract where you're implementing the academic equivalent of spineless management. Creating new convoluted policies to address isolated instances of bad behavior isn't fair to folks following the rules. Think copy protection. rg


I don't disagree with what you're saying, but everything has to be as fair and balanced as it can be. People are innocent until proven guilty and I need to take steps to gather whatever information might be necessary to prove to a committee that a particular grade is warranted if it should be contested. If I didn't (or don't) have models that can backup my position for a grade it can be overturned by a committee or administrators higher up. I don't see anything too out of line in asking all students to turn in a few incremental saves of models. That wouldn't be without precedent in an academic setting. How many people that took math had to turn in their worksheets when solving a problem. I don't see this all that different. But also, that is why I'm here asking for people to tell me what they think. I'm interested in hearing some ideas about the subject.

It seems to me that if a student knows that models are expected to be turned in, they are less likely to do the wrong thing.

Thanks for your input.

M.Monkey

Stooch
12-24-2007, 08:04 AM
corporal punishment is the best i think. just use a tire iron to smash the meta carpals on a cinder block.

Steamthrower
12-24-2007, 08:07 AM
corporal punishment is the best i think. just use a tire iron to smash the meta carpals on a cinder block.

That would definitely put a stop to plagiarism. Unfortunately I think overall school attendance might drop as well :)

MysteryMonkey
12-24-2007, 08:53 AM
That would definitely put a stop to plagiarism. Unfortunately I think overall school attendance might drop as well :)

It might indeed put a stop to plagiarism (as well as cause attendance to drop)

Plagiarism has traditionally been a big problem in classes like English where the students turn in papers. Students can go online and buy papers on almost any topic. But there are also website dedicated to help track down such plagiarism. Some schools buy subscriptions to such sites, but also even a basic Google search can often expose such instances by typing in a choice unique phrase or two. Some school classes utilizing the subscription website require the students to submit their papers digital files to the website, where it then runs a comparison of all documents it has in its data base. It then will give back a report of how much of the paper uses text already known, and it gives an assessments for the lielyhood of plagiarism. That website also them records the paper submitted and puts it in its data base for future reference. Pretty cool really. When such a service is utilized attempts of plagiarism drop signifigantly. . . Unfortunately with 3D models there isn't a data comparison type search engine to help locate the cheaters. Its a visual search based on trying to think of descriptive words for the model to do a search. Then its picking through the 100s of models to see if there is a match. A real pain in the ***, but if that's what I've got to do I will. That is also why I may from time to time post images on this and other website asking people if they recognize a particular model. Hopefully if students know that I actively search for plagiarized models they will just do the work themselves.

manholoz
12-24-2007, 08:59 AM
Quick tip.
Check the file creation and modification dates.
Sometimes that is the only give-away needed. File X was submitted for this semester, but has a creation date of two years ago? Duh.

MysteryMonkey
12-24-2007, 09:12 AM
Quick tip.
Check the file creation and modification dates.
Sometimes that is the only give-away needed. File X was submitted for this semester, but has a creation date of two years ago? Duh.

You know I did that, but most of the time when downloading a file off the internet a new Created on Date is generated :grumpy: I've also checked the Ownership & Permissions of the files, but most people don't add that info to their files.

Good idea though.

avkills
12-24-2007, 10:12 AM
I wonder if you could set up Modeler to stamp something into the Meta data the first time a object is saved; So if you loaded a pre-build model it would not be added since the model did not start from scratch.


* edit

But that would probably easily be circumvented by a cut and paste. grrr. It was an idea.

-mark

Verlon
12-24-2007, 08:45 PM
is it possible to have them record their modeling (like various tutorials we see)?

Isn't one of those screen recorders now free for educational use?

Just thinking....

As long as they are modeling coffee cups, a low end computer should keep up.

MysteryMonkey
12-24-2007, 10:17 PM
is it possible to have them record their modeling (like various tutorials we see)?

Isn't one of those screen recorders now free for educational use?

Just thinking....

As long as they are modeling coffee cups, a low end computer should keep up.

Unfortunately that probably isn't a practical solution to my situation. While they do model coffee cups for their first assignment, the next is to make a primitive humanoid figure, then a hand, followed by an advanced figure. Multiply that by 16 students and there would be way too many hours of modeling to record. I'm not really worried too much about anyone stealing cup models to use as their own. Its an easy enough assignment that everyone (so far) just jumps right in and works on it . . . Its not a bad idea. I just don't think it would work where I'm at. Thanks for the idea though.

toby
12-26-2007, 12:36 AM
Maybe start the assignment with a word about plagiarism, also tell them that the student with the best model (or plagiarist suspect) will be asked to demonstrate part of their technique for the class.

Several screenshots during the process is probably the best idea though

darkChief
12-26-2007, 12:52 AM
corporal punishment is the best i think. just use a tire iron to smash the meta carpals on a cinder block.

Lol trust me you get used to it if it happens enough times, normal corporal punishment that it.

But smashing the meta carpals on a cinder block would do the trick hehe

One way to stop plagiarism is to lock the student in a room and make them redo the assignment. Then they can't cheat.

Richard Hebert
12-26-2007, 03:29 AM
All great ideas. The simplest approach would be to have the student exhibit some of the modeling techniques used to build the model live and in person. Can't really cheat there and will only take about twenty minutes to prove their guilt (I mean innocence).

cresshead
12-26-2007, 03:38 AM
when i used to teach 3d at peoples college nottingham, i put in place a simple rule for modeling tasks...

if you can't show and make screen grabs of the work in progress of your modeling then your model is not accepted no matter how neat it looks.

yeah i still had some students who tried to put one past me...but i got 'em
usually so no biggy.:thumbsup:

in the end the only people they are hurting/lying to are themselves if they constantly cheat.

colkai
12-26-2007, 03:43 AM
Maybe start the assignment with a word about plagiarism, also tell them that the student with the best model (or plagiarist suspect) will be asked to demonstrate part of their technique for the class.

Several screenshots during the process is probably the best idea though
Excellent idea, if you mention this at the start, people would think twice about using others work in case they had to do a "show and tell". :thumbsup:

Steamthrower
12-26-2007, 07:13 AM
I'm assuming that the students have internet access throughout the class?

MysteryMonkey
12-26-2007, 07:56 AM
I'm assuming that the students have internet access throughout the class?

Yes they do. Why?

MysteryMonkey
12-26-2007, 08:15 AM
. . . i put in place a simple rule for modeling tasks...if you can't show and make screen grabs of the work in progress of your modeling then your model is not accepted no matter how neat it looks. . .

That sounds good, kind of along the line of what I've been considering having them do by requiring incremental saves. I think someone mentioned doing something similar to that before but I like that the final work would not be accepted if the required supporting work in progress was supplied along with it. I could find a way to write that into the assignment/syllabus so there couldn't be any doubt of what was expected of them. "No supporting work files will result in receiving zero points for the assignment"

UnCommonGrafx
12-26-2007, 08:39 AM
Very good question. I hadn't thought about this aspect of teaching a lw class because I want them to create everything in class.

I haven't started back up my LW classes but the students I have will definitely be a lot more advanced than those I've had in the past. To that end, this kind of plagiarism is definitely going to be possible. I think, however, that giving modeling tests would be a great way to get past this kind of opportunity for students.
I think that informing them of the sites that will be available to them after the class for their own projects will not only let them know that you are aware of such opportunities for them but also that you are willing to share with them those things they will be able to accomplish once done with their hard work. De-constructing a few of these objects would go well to assisting with topology, and the like.

For a class like this, it's pretty obvious that plagiarism is hard on the plagiarist if the environment becomes challenging. Putting the individual in charge of a big modelling project allows them to rise to their incompetence. Depending on the level of the class, levels of revealing assignments can work well to exposing the plagiarist or getting them to step up their work to meet the expectation they've created.


Thanks for the thread. Good food for thought.
(Curious: has anyone gotten the curriculum for LW that NewTek has been working on??)

cresshead
12-26-2007, 08:39 AM
just make THE requirment, ''work in progress images of the modeling''.

with the final image being the icing on the cake rather than the otherway round...seeing as it's a modeling task you have to show the stages you go thru for modeling...the final image is the net result of modeling and in fact the end image is not 'modeling'

if you go for screen grabs over incremental saves you can mark it faster seeing as you'd only need to look thru a set of images in a document rather than open/close scenes of say 8 saves for 16 students...which could take ages to get thru...also ask for incremental saves just to double check any
models you may suspect of cheating...the incremental saves is good working practice anyhow for artists..if they just over write a file all the timie they'll have a disaster one day and lose all their work on a model.

the marking would be made up of:-
1.work in progress images
2.incremental sdaved scenes
3.diary from modeler of the task and problems./solutions encountered/overcome.
4.final still image
5.final turntable animation

MysteryMonkey
12-26-2007, 08:51 AM
. . . if you go for screen grabs over incremental saves you can mark it faster seeing as you'd only need to look thru a set of images in a document reather than open/close scenes of say 8 saves for 16 students...which could take ages to get thru...also ask for incremental saves just to double check any models you may suspect of cheating...the incremental saves is good working practice anyhow for artists..if they just over write a file all the timie they'll have a disaster one day and lose all their work on a model.

I think that's good. If I require both screen grabs and some incremental saves I wouldn't have to actually look at the models unless things looked odd in the screen grabs. . . Also, students should learn the value of incremental saves. I have stressed they should be doing that should a model file become corrupted but I didn't require they turn in any of those incremental saves.Screen Shot & Incremental Saves sound like a good plan, but i'm still interested in hearing any more brilliant ideas :D

MysteryMonkey
12-26-2007, 10:48 AM
. . . (Curious: has anyone gotten the curriculum for LW that NewTek has been working on??)

Is NewTek working on a curriculum? It would be nice to see a copy of the lesson plan/assignments. Who at NewTek is in charge of that?

What say you? Any sneak peaks available for the curious?

UnCommonGrafx
12-26-2007, 12:36 PM
Never got a look at it; met the lady; met the man, Graham Toms I believe; but never saw it.

Hopefully we can all ask with one voice and bring it to the light of day.

Hopper
12-27-2007, 12:25 PM
Plagiarising your high-school english paper I can see. There are more people out there that hate writing than not, but these students are taking this course by choice are they not? I don't see the logic in it, but then again there are those that will spend mommy and daddy's money with no reguard or respect. I would pay a premium to take modeling courses if I had the time away from work.

It's too bad you couldn't simply pin a note to little Timmy's shirt and send him home to mommy and daddy for a good a** beating.

I agree with "innocent until proven guitly", but then again, it's a classroom - not a court of law. I would have failed his project, giving him the reason why you did and the option to prove you wrong. Even a nominally complex object will have it's "fingerprint" (i.e. relational distances between several points, etc..). If someone is too lazy to do the work, they'll be too lazy to hide it properly.


Maybe start the assignment with a word about plagiarism
Agreed. I would simply add a note to indicate that it has happened in the past and no one yet has ever gotten away with it. :twak:

This thread made me remember a little classroom video I think you would all get a kick out of. I love this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4DfZ7GUNFg

Steamthrower
12-27-2007, 12:38 PM
but then again there are those that will spend mommy and daddy's money with no reguard or respect.

Yes. Probably they see a 3D course and think, "oh cool I can learn how to make that stuff you see in Shrek, dude" and off they go, not expecting to find that it's actually hard to do that kind of stuff...

snsmoore
12-27-2007, 02:19 PM
Something I've done in some of my projects is keep a development journal. This may work well for a big modeling project, and the students can even evaluate their approaches and comment on how they could do it better next time.

Then at the end of the project the development journal can be one of the deliverables.

-shawn

lede
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
With screen capture software being what it is today you could have them record a 15 minute clip of their work one day in class as part of the assignment.

As for the suggestions I think the best would be to provide objects that arn't in abundance on the internet. I like the idea of taking a picture and using that as the reference for objects to model. You could give each student a different object in the scene to model. This would help build team work and also provide them with an opertunity to collaberate with each other.

I guess I'm lucky in that I've never take a 3D modeling class so the pressure of cheating has never been a issue in my learning. So to me cheating is only really wasting my time.

You could also frequent the toy store more and pick up some killer action figures. Start building a collection and from those characters use them as what the class will model for their projects. Also pick up simple toys that would be easy to model and slowly work your way to the more difficult ones. If you ever get a chance to see Williams 'Proton' Vaughan's desk collection of toys you can see where he gets a lot of creative ideas. His desk is usually filled with these kind of things.

Maybe have them give a presentation on their model and talk about the geometry and about some of the challenges they had and what they did to solve those issues. For a lot of my characters I've modeled in the past few years I could give a 10-30 minute presentation on it and provide enough information to show my compatence. For models I've just drolled over it would probably take like 5 seconds. But this one could back fire for the students that have problem speaking in front of groups and their peers.

It would be a tragity if you had to turn into the Plagiarism police for that will eat up a lot of your time and energy and stifle your creativity. Good luck with this and hope there are some solutions you can implament that will cut down on the work you have to do to prevent this from happening.

-Lee

MysteryMonkey
12-29-2007, 08:22 AM
Yes. Probably they see a 3D course and think, "oh cool I can learn how to make that stuff you see in Shrek, dude" and off they go, not expecting to find that it's actually hard to do that kind of stuff...

That is so true. I've had several students expect to be animation wizards with just a few weeks of effort. They just can't seem to find the Make Art Key on their keyboards :D I'll have to say though that the majority of my students realize that they need to put in the effort if they want to succeed in any area of the arts.

Steamthrower
12-29-2007, 08:34 AM
That is so true. I've had several students expect to be animation wizards with just a few weeks of effort. They just can't seem to find the Make Art Key on their keyboards :D I'll have to say though that the majority of my students realize that they need to put in the effort if they want to succeed in any area of the arts.

What? I'm guessing that your school's budget didn't allow you to buy the InstaBlockbuster LW plugin? I couldn't do anything without it.

MysteryMonkey
12-29-2007, 09:11 AM
. . . You could give each student a different object in the scene to model. . .

Well this is the very first level of the class so we aren't really getting into do group scenes. Plus I can just hear the whining, "Jimmy got to do the easy model. Mine would have been better if I got to model an easy one." . . . No matter what way I handed out different models someone would find a reason for why they really deserved special consideration for a better grade.


You could also frequent the toy store more and pick up some killer action figures. Start building a collection and from those characters use them as what the class will model for their projects.

I think those are good ideas for advanced level students but I'm not sure they would work for my particular intro class. Since this is an intro class I want to be sure that students have opportunities to both model and animate those models. I've heard complaints from people taking classes that all they did was learn to model for a whole semester, but didn't get to animate anything. I try to give them experience in both basic modeling and animating.


Also pick up simple toys that would be easy to model and slowly work your way to the more difficult ones.

That may work. Its defintely a good idea to pass onto the students for their own independent projects.


It would be a tragedy if you had to turn into the Plagiarism police for that will eat up a lot of your time and energy and stifle your creativity. Good luck with this and hope there are some solutions you can implement that will cut down on the work you have to do to prevent this from happening. -Lee

The last thing I ever wanted to do was become a Plagiarism Cop. Just like I never wanted to be an Attendance Cop either. But I do what I have to do when its necessary. If students know that I take attendance every class most students make an effort to attend. If students know plagiarism is unacceptable, and that I will investigate and track down suspected plagiarism, hopefully they will do their own work. Hopefully by implementing a few of the ideas I've seen (and may yet to see) here students will realize they have nothing to really gain, and everything to lose, by plagiarizing. I just need to find a way to make my role in the issue as minimal as possible. I want to be as unobtrusive as possible in their creative process and give them them freedom to express their ideas

I have to say that I think it is the rare exception that resorts to plagiarism, but now that it has happened to me I need to have steps in place to minimize the chance it will happen again.

Thanks for your input!

MysteryMonkey
12-29-2007, 09:34 AM
What? I'm guessing that your school's budget didn't allow you to buy the InstaBlockbuster LW plugin? I couldn't do anything without it.

InstaBlockBuster LW Plugin? How could I have missed that one?!? Rats! I just knew this had to be easier to do! :D

mrpapabeis
12-29-2007, 04:32 PM
Mr. Monkey,

Don't let the plagiarist get you down. There's a few of 'em out there. I've sat on a review board where the young fool actually contested. It consisted of instructors from another Dept., Admin, & and students. The students almost ate this guy alive. Out of a panel of eight only one had voted him not guilty. It was the token "nice" vote. And you know something... He was just pissed 'cause he got caught. I hope your student learns his lesson. But it's hard to change character that late in life.

Welcome to education,

GP

BTW have you thought of reading this thread out loud to your students?

Steamthrower
12-29-2007, 08:52 PM
BTW have you thought of reading this thread out loud to your students?

Wait a sec! Before he does that we need to start writing heated, vindictive posts about how we like to catch plagiarists and flay them alive and serve them with fish sticks, etc., how they are the bane of our society, how they'll turn out to be utter washouts and won't be able to support a family, and above all we'll have to come up with some statistic on how many convicted plagiarists end up on death row.

Those plagiarists are bad, I tell you.

MysteryMonkey
12-29-2007, 09:59 PM
. . . Don't let the plagiarist get you down . . . Welcome to education

Oh it won't get me down. I've been teaching far too many years to let an incident like this get to me. I've spent over a dozen years teaching a variety of college courses in both the fine & digital arts. I had to deal with plagiarism in an art history class class a few years back and that student got the same treatment as this case did. I had one case happen in a digital photography class too. That also had a similar outcome. 3 cases of plagiarism in a dozen years isn't too bad. I guess this case just caught me off guard. For some reason I didn't expect it to happen. That was naive of me. I mean I knew it could happen, I just didn't believe anyone would try to do it. Now that I've seen it happen I'll put steps in place to discourage it from happening again.

THREEL
12-30-2007, 12:28 AM
Incremental saves are great, but I'd just have your students save their work in a series of layers, and use quick notes to show how they created their master piece. Just a few clicks on a few layers would tell you if they were doing their own work, because the layers would show that they are trying to follow the particular set of techniques that you have taught them.

Recently, a member of this forum wanted some help on how to create a certain model. I showed him how I would do it using the above method. It's sort of like writing an essay in reverse. Build your model, then, create your outline on how you accomplished it.

When doing a scene in Layout, they could, and should, as students, take notes as they create the scene. Then, their outline should match their created scene.

tHREEL, but you can call me AL.

androidmaker
12-30-2007, 01:32 AM
have them do all work in class, turn in the files to you at the end of class and you reload them the next class. you can just check on thare progress many times during the class. you can check the created time stamp to see if the student messed with the files.

mikadit
12-30-2007, 04:09 AM
Adding basic concept art and storyboarding as part of the workflow of the course could be helpful to grow the interest on the course itself and to partially prevent plagiarism. Acquiring the scanned or a paper copy of the concept and storyboard modifications during the course will be interesting and similar to the control on the incremental saved files.

Exception
01-01-2008, 03:52 PM
What about my suggestion on page 1?
They work fine for my teachings. Never have any of these issues.

MysteryMonkey
01-01-2008, 09:11 PM
What about my suggestion on page 1?
They work fine for my teachings. Never have any of these issues.

&


What about assignment where it's almost impossible to find something on the web? Like have them take a photograph of one of the shops in the street of the school, and let them model whatever is in the photo? Or think up some kind of odd monster with square tentacles that eats train carriages. I bet even turbosquid doesn't offer that? Just some thoughts...

Exception,

I can see your suggestions as a short term solution to dealing with plagiarism, but ultimately in the long run not a satisfactory solution to the potential problem. Eventually, no matter how many odd ball objects student are required to model they will eventually have to model more traditional subjects. Subjects that more than likely could be found on TurboSquid. So then I would be right back to square one, how to prevent plagiarism? I think requiring documentation of the modeling process through screen shots and incremental saves of the models and layout scenes the most practical approach for now. There maybe something else that could be a better solution than that, but I don't know what it is yet.

Thanks for taking the time to give me your suggestions.

M.Monkey

Steamthrower
01-02-2008, 06:56 AM
Reported.