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View Full Version : Morph + Morph = "Uh oh..."



Nangleator
12-13-2007, 08:48 PM
I've got a device that is morphed into the right shape with one morph. It's twisted about 80, actually.

I've also had to add a morph to a small part of the device. I modeled from the base model so that the new morph target is correct. (I used the default morph type. "Relative" right?)

My new morph, on top of my old morph, isn't right. It's twisted out of shape.

I can't remove the first morph map from those points, because they need both morphs.

This should have worked, but it didn't. What should I do?

voriax
12-13-2007, 09:02 PM
My head hurts from reading that..
Can you show us some screenshots of what's happening?

Nangleator
12-13-2007, 09:42 PM
Okay, here's one clip closed, one open:

http://home.comcast.net/~david.nangle/pic/ClipOpen.jpg

Here's both clips morphed closed:

http://home.comcast.net/~david.nangle/pic/ClipsClosed.jpg

And here's what happens when I apply the original morph, which twists the object to face the camera better:

http://home.comcast.net/~david.nangle/pic/AllTwisted.jpg

My clips are messed up.

Is my original morph not a relative morph, or something? Or is it just a bad idea to rotate stuff using a morph?

voriax
12-13-2007, 10:50 PM
Strange.
Probably not a good idea to rotate using morphs.. if you can, just rotate it with keyframes.

Nangleator
12-14-2007, 05:50 AM
Here was my problem. I have this device morphing forward along a bone chain. When it reached the end, I wanted the pretty logo to face the camera. If I tried rotating the product, the whole bone chain would rotate and my product would fly off into nowhere.

If I modeled the product to the correct angle, it wouldn't be straight, making further edits difficult because of skewed axis.

I suppose I should do that now. It will probably work. Kill my "Twisted" morph, redo my "Clip Closed" morphs and rotate the product in Modeler. I'm pretty sure I did those labels with UVs...

BeeVee
12-14-2007, 05:59 AM
Did you try parenting the whole thing to a null and then rotating the null?

B

Nangleator
12-14-2007, 06:13 AM
That would rotate the bone chain. I just want to twist the thing around its own bones. Like a snake, where the overall shape doesn't change, but the belly points in a new direction, you know?

UnCommonGrafx
12-14-2007, 10:06 AM
Right,
But if the whole thing were attached to a null then that would be the thing you would rotate if rotation were needed. Independent rotation channels.

I can't see the pics but I get the gist of what the problem is. I'm curious: does the second morph include the first morphs point differences? That is, did you build the second morph from the first?
If this is what you did then you are mophing those points with morphmixer at double their power: the first applied morph then the same movement with morph2 plus your small change.

For the second morph, what you want to do is clear everything except your small change from the morph or incorporate all your changes in one morph.

Ask more if that didn't make a lick of sense...

CreatvGnius
12-14-2007, 10:35 AM
Here was my problem. I have this device morphing forward along a bone chain. When it reached the end, I wanted the pretty logo to face the camera. If I tried rotating the product, the whole bone chain would rotate and my product would fly off into nowhere.
B

Relative to the desire for a better perspective for a view of the cool logo, could just repositioning/rotating the camera over a few keyframes in Layout be the simple answer?

If so, then you don't have to "touch" the "whole thing" at all -- until you decide to animate any of its components. :hey:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
12-14-2007, 10:46 AM
Here was my problem. I have this device morphing forward along a bone chain. When it reached the end, I wanted the pretty logo to face the camera. If I tried rotating the product, the whole bone chain would rotate and my product would fly off into nowhere.

If I modeled the product to the correct angle, it wouldn't be straight, making further edits difficult because of skewed axis...

Depending on your model's intended use, and relative to the desire for a better perspective for a view of the cool logo, could just repositioning/rotating the camera over a few keyframes in Layout be the simple answer?

If so, then you don't have to "touch" the "whole thing" at all -- until you decided to further animate any of its components.

If I'm off base here (I often am) :D Somebody let me know how so? :hey:
-PeterG

Nangleator
12-14-2007, 12:22 PM
Thank you all for your help.

Oh, and it was a complex animation with the device entering and following a particular blood vessel, with the hub end coming to rest against the patient's skin. I could easily rotate the entire operating room, to no effect, or the device, and have it follow the wrong path. That wouldn't help me.

I'll try rebuilding the morphs from scratch and see if it helps.

CreatvGnius
12-14-2007, 03:25 PM
Thank you all for your help.

Oh, and it was a complex animation with the device entering and following a particular blood vessel, with the hub end coming to rest against the patient's skin. I could easily rotate the entire operating room, to no effect...

Aw, now that's funny. It's all clearer to me now.
-PeterG

DustinBrown
03-11-2008, 05:32 PM
I know this thread is a few months old, but this is something I've been trying to figure out for a while as well - how to have something morph down a curved bone chain AND ALSO have the ability to rotate the object along it's bank while still on the bone chain. The analogy used before of a snake rolling over to show it's belly is a good one.

If you rotate the object itself or any parent nulls of the object, then it just rotates the entire chain, so if your chain were shaped like an S, you'd just get a rotating S effect. No bueno. The desired effect is to have the snake bank locally while still railed along the chain.

Something I tried doing was adding a SockMonkey modifier ABOVE the MorphMixer. I'm pretty sure that displacement modifiers are additive, and first-come-first-serve, so I thought that if I could use a null to drive the rotation of my snake via SockMonkey, then have MorphMixer move the snake along the bone chain I could get the desired effect. Unfortunately it didn't work.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them.

R.Feeney
03-11-2008, 05:56 PM
I havent tried it but maybe a Deform:Twist under add displacement might help

voriax
03-11-2008, 05:57 PM
You can achieve this somewhat using IK on a bone chain. Using multiple IK targets along the chain, then rotating the first bone along the bank axis should make all the bones rotate the same way, but keep them in their IK'd shape.
I just tested it briefly and it works to a degree, but the first few bones tend to swing out around the place a bit..
It's actually quite cool .. I've never thought of using that before.

DustinBrown
03-11-2008, 06:32 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried SockMonkey, Twist, Vortex, and I just tried baking the bank rotation into an MDD file using PointOven, then adding that to my s-curved snake, but as soon as I add the MD_Plug deformer, it ignores my MorphMixer deformer completely. The MDD runs fine, but it overwrites my MorphMixer deformations instead off enhancing them in an additive manor. So none of those seem to have the desired effect.

I thought about creating more morphs to bank the object in, say, 30 increments so I don't much weird distortion, but that seems like such a ghetto work-around.

The IK idea sounds interesting, but my object is actually a catheter, not a snake, and I have it running through anatomy. FK works much better for getting the bone chain exactly where I need it in this situation.

- dustin

voriax
03-11-2008, 07:37 PM
Hmm ok.. your multiple morph idea might end up being the only workaround if you can get it looking smoothe..
I did this quick test using the IK method.. only posting it cos it looks cool and worm-like :)

Nangleator
03-11-2008, 07:51 PM
For my application, I had a set path the catheter had to follow, quite precisely. The IK trick might have worked, but I thought it would be flopping around too much to fit into the vein properly!

Maybe fiddling with the "rest bank angle" of the bones would have a positive effect, but... the job is gone. I'm too lazy to check on it now.

R.Feeney
03-12-2008, 09:07 AM
I know this thread is a few months old, but this is something I've been trying to figure out for a while as well - how to have something morph down a curved bone chain AND ALSO have the ability to rotate the object along it's bank while still on the bone chain. The analogy used before of a snake rolling over to show it's belly is a good one.

If you rotate the object itself or any parent nulls of the object, then it just rotates the entire chain, so if your chain were shaped like an S, you'd just get a rotating S effect. No bueno. The desired effect is to have the snake bank locally while still railed along the chain.

Something I tried doing was adding a SockMonkey modifier ABOVE the MorphMixer. I'm pretty sure that displacement modifiers are additive, and first-come-first-serve, so I thought that if I could use a null to drive the rotation of my snake via SockMonkey, then have MorphMixer move the snake along the bone chain I could get the desired effect. Unfortunately it didn't work.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them.
I have an idea what might work.
1. Create the chain of bones as normal.
2. Turn off all those bones
3. create a child bone for each of the original bones, each of them targeted at the next bone in the original chain(on pitch and heading)
4. use the original bones to set the path and use the new bones for banking along it.
6. set up follower or expressions to make it easier to control.

I havent tried this myself so it may not work as I imagine.

Nangleator
03-12-2008, 09:34 AM
So, set the power of the main bones at 0%?

That's clever! Tricky setup, but it should work.

DustinBrown
03-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Interesting idea, R.Feeney. Thanks for suggesting it.

See attached. What's really frustrating is that it takes less than a minute to set up a basic example of what I want in 3ds max. But I want it rigged in LightWave because I've already invested the hours into creating a fully setup array of scene files in Layout. I'm too far gone into the LW pipeline to switch the project over now. Argh.

- dustin