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kopperdrake
12-04-2007, 04:27 PM
I've a large project kicking off and I was wondering if people currently using anything like the above software selection would recommend me jumping into the Mac LW or stick with my Bootcamp PC version for now. I've not had time to play with the UB version recently, one deadline after another.

I know LW9.3 runs okay on Leopard from reading these forums, but I'm unsure about the various plug-ins as to whether they're happy with LW9.3 and OS X Leopard on an Intel Mac (8 core) or even if they exist in that format! I run FPrime on the PC at the moment, same goes for LWCAD, but I'm about to buy HD Instance so any help would be really appreciated :) I'd love this project to be done on the Mac, mainly because I still feel dirty running Windows on it, but also because I know I'll be throwing money away with HD Instance if I buy it on the PC, knowing I'll be buying the Mac version in a few months time once the projects done!

medicalart
12-04-2007, 04:53 PM
I've used UB version of Lightwave my Intel mac and have found that Modeler works well, and Layout works well most of the time. I have one large file that takes forever to load into UB Layout, and the response times when working in Layout are disappointing at best. Quicktime output doesn't work properly, either, so the output has to be in TGA frames. I've moved this file to the PC (Bootcamp) and everything works well there, though I haven't mastered PC output formats. Other small files work well in UB. Newtek seems to know about the slow response times in UB and are supposedly working on a fix. I haven't used Leopard, or HD, or FPrime or LWCAD on UB, but even without those, there are still some response time issues.Check the UB discussion for details.

Markc
12-05-2007, 04:38 PM
Fprime is not available yet as a UB, so will only work on PowerPC Macs.
LWcad is in UB format.

3dworks
12-05-2007, 05:19 PM
lwcad and hd instance working both like a charm on LW UB here! but, i'm still on tiger... so there may exist specific leopard issues.

markus

kopperdrake
12-06-2007, 07:09 PM
Thanks for the replies :) Hmm...wondering why I jumped on the Leopard band wagon so soon, not the best move perhaps, one more issue to think about when it comes to buying software. I've bought HD Instance for the PC for now, it's such a reasonable price I'll grab it for the Mac once I get time to play with the UB in some spare time (sometime next year at this rate!)

Thanks guys :thumbsup:

Phil
12-06-2007, 10:25 PM
FPrime has known issues with Leopard. There is no fix from Worley, so their official solution is to remain with Tiger. This impacts both Intel and PPC Macs. Mind you, they won't support you running FPrime on Intel Mac under OS X in any case.

Wonderful, eh? No support for UB, no support for PPC LW on Intel, and now no support for Leopard.

3dworks
12-06-2007, 11:56 PM
FPrime has known issues with Leopard. There is no fix from Worley, so their official solution is to remain with Tiger. This impacts both Intel and PPC Macs. Mind you, they won't support you running FPrime on Intel Mac under OS X in any case.

Wonderful, eh? No support for UB, no support for PPC LW on Intel, and now no support for Leopard.

yeah, and the time is passing by... i wonder now, after 9 months (!) why in the end i did even pay for this last fprime upgrade. before the latest LW 9.3.1 fixes (which improved stability of fprime), i had even to use version 2.1 for some time because version 3 was too unstable. for sure, as a 'loyal' customer i jumped onto this upgrade the day it came out, because i expected a UB version to be around the corner, also because beta development of lightwave UB was going on already for a long time. unfortunately, worley did not meet those expectations until now. even the network rendering hack is windows only - for maybe technical reasons - but currently, all indicators are that the mac platform and its users are apparently low priority for them.

markus

Phil
12-07-2007, 12:09 AM
Well, to be fair, the UB support appears to be because Worley don't want to ship a plugin that crashes as much as the PPC version. All this stems from a bug in LW that seems to be requiring some effort to fix.

However, my tolerance is eliminated by the fact that there is no progress at all on the Win32 plugin (which is at least more stable than PPC) in terms of new node support and lighting handling, and no sign of any ports of the other plugins. FPrime 3 is still useful as a previewer, but that's really all.

It also doesn't seem able to render Dynamite volumes. Which sucks.

Sensei
12-07-2007, 01:33 AM
After LW v9.3.1 nothing will render volumetrics, because NewTek screwed up LWSDK again making it incompatible with olders (LWVolumeEvaluationFuncs)..

I want old Luxology programmers team back! At least they knew how to write backward compatible software!

Chilton
12-07-2007, 06:33 AM
Hi Sensei,

Is that a Mac-specific problem? From the bug report it looks like a cross-platform issue. If that's the case, you might be better served bringing this up in a different forum. The bug I see from you (dated last week) regarding this is being looked into now, but I assume, from the communications mentioned in the report, that you know that.

-Chilton

Sensei
12-07-2007, 07:06 AM
No, what I mentioned above is something different than just buggy LWVolumeEvaluateFuncs/LWVRayFuncs on multi-threads in pixel-filters.. It's adding useless another parameter call-back to LWVRayFuncs->SetRenderFuncs(), increasing version number, and returning NULL by LW v9.3.1 if older one volumetric evaluation function global is asked by plug-in.. This makes immediately Kray and FPrime not working with volumetrics just after installing LW v9.3.1! You see - working software stop working just like that because somebody at NewTek destroyed without any reason good includes!
You should really teach Jarno, or whoever did that mess that in such case you can just add another function at the end of global like LWVolumetricEvaluationFuncs, LWVRayFuncs to set that particular parameter if plug-in needs it, and if it asked for newer global in newer LW... It's even easier than just making incompatible includes!

Yes, you're right, it's multi- platform issue, not Mac only related.. I wrote here because Phil mentioned FPrime not working with Dynamite..

Sensei
12-07-2007, 07:21 AM
LWSDK v9.2/v9.3 include:

/// Sets the render functions to be called when this ray is evaluated.
void (*SetRenderFuncs)(
LWVolumeAccess *ray, /// ray to be adjusted
LWIlluminateFunc *illuminate, /// illumination callback
LWRayTraceFunc *rayTrace, /// raytrace callback
LWRayCastFunc *rayCast, /// raycast callback
LWRayShadeFunc *rayShade, /// rayshade callback
LWRayTraceModeFunc *rayTraceMode, /// raytracemode callback
LWIlluminateSampleFunc *illuminateSample); /// Illumination sample callback

The latest LWSDK:

/// Sets the render functions to be called when this ray is evaluated.
void (*SetRenderFuncs)(
LWVolumeAccess *ray, /// ray to be adjusted
LWIlluminateFunc *illuminate, /// illumination callback
LWRayTraceFunc *rayTrace, /// raytrace callback
LWRayCastFunc *rayCast, /// raycast callback
LWRayShadeFunc *rayShade, /// rayshade callback
LWRayTraceModeFunc *rayTraceMode, /// raytracemode callback
LWIlluminateSampleFunc *illuminateSample, /// Illumination sample callback
LWRandomFloatFunc *randomFloat ); /// RandomFloat function callback

LWRandomFloatFunc * should not be inside of SetRenderFuncs();! but as LWVRayFuncs->SetRandomFloatFunc( LWRandomFloatFunc *randomFloat );
and older global "VRayFuncs 3" should be returned just fine (because have same layout as new one - except one function at the end is not in it).

manproof
12-07-2007, 09:54 AM
I am currently running LightWave 8.5 on Tiger (Power Mac G4), and am buying a new Mac as well as FPrime in the next couple of months. To ensure FPrime works, do I need to get a new PPC Mac with Tiger, not Leopard, preinstalled? Is FPrime valuable enough to influence whether one goes PPC or Intel?

Thanks.

-Adam

3dworks
12-07-2007, 11:25 AM
I am currently running LightWave 8.5 on Tiger (Power Mac G4), and am buying a new Mac as well as FPrime in the next couple of months. To ensure FPrime works, do I need to get a new PPC Mac with Tiger, not Leopard, preinstalled? Is FPrime valuable enough to influence whether one goes PPC or Intel?

Thanks.

-Adam

it's rather unlikely to find a *new* mac PPC nowadays ;)

just in case you need fprime absolutely for your workflow, there are currently 2 solutions.

* try to search for a used G5 quad, those where already relatively fast macs, compared to the latest intel macs. don't install leopard on it until... fprime will be running on leopard.

* the only other solution is to buy a much faster (and more silent!) current intel macpro, a license for windows xp pro32 (or even better, 64) and install it with bootcamp on your new mac. then be prepared to use LW on windows for a few months, until fprime for UB appears. using LW on windows isn't even the worst experience, but be warned: if worley will forget about releasing the UB version, be prepared to wave your light on the 'dark side' for the rest of your days ;D

cheers

markus

manproof
12-07-2007, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the fast response, Markus. That is a little disappointing to hear, though it’s what I feared. Has Worley made any statement as to whether or not they have ceased or continue to develop for the Mac OS?

3dworks
12-07-2007, 12:29 PM
Thanks for the fast response, Markus. That is a little disappointing to hear, though it’s what I feared. Has Worley made any statement as to whether or not they have ceased or continue to develop for the Mac OS?

worley as a developer is known for not releasing any info about developments until they are finished and ready for release. and sometimes it helps to know a little bit of japanese... ;)

no official statement about this, so far... but evidently there are serious issues with leopard at least, as you can read on their website FAQ:

http://www.worley.com/E/fprime_support.html

so - wait and hope...

markus

ps. on the positive side, LW PPC CFM 9.3.1 is a bit more solid than previous versions when used with fprime. so there's at least a good trend, here...

manproof
12-07-2007, 12:52 PM
Great information Markus. Thanks for your help.

kfinla
12-07-2007, 07:22 PM
All I've ever heard from Wolrey is that UB versions are "possible" no commitment... no timeline.. an that was probably 18 months ago

Im starting to think worley no longer is developing for the mac based on the there being no UB version of any of his plugins, no fixs to the large bugs and mess that frpime 3 was/is.. sasquatch being updated for windows.. and not touched on the mac side for over 2 yrs.. then again Worley hasn't done or said anything for PC in awhile either.. perhaps he's retired.

axaboss
12-07-2007, 10:54 PM
I think its time for Newtek to step up to bat and include FPrime in LightWave, so updates will stay current. FPrime is in large portion why people continue to use LightWave. Worley is not cut out for customer service.

juanjgon
12-11-2007, 01:58 AM
I also think that Worley is not working with his LW plugins anymore. Fprime 2 has a incredible core to becomes one of the best unbiased render engine in market, but only a few changes has been made in Fprime 3 (only support for new features of LW9 and a patch to network render) ... and no support after that. I also think that NT must buy this plugins, update them and include all in LW ... this could be great for LW :)