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ADL
12-04-2007, 03:16 AM
Hi all,
this is a huge scene (2.300x1.725) with over 2,5 milions of polygons,
800 surfaces, 10 blending layers for night lights and with atmospheric
sky and sun.

The original geometry come from an original and famous Simone Vassallo scene with LightWave 3D and this is the cover for an architectural book for
Lightwave 3D that Simone has written and we are printing this week.

A lot of works for us but its a Fry works from my friend and Imago
Edizioni worker Pierluigi Morrone, post processing from
Francesco De Lorenzo.

The book has a depth chapter about how to make this scene
with Lightwave 3D and Fry 64 bit 1.9 beta and make post processing
with Photoshop.

All is on a PC with Vista Ultimate 64 and 4 Gbyte of Ram, GTX 8800,
quad 6600 overclocked to 2.8 Gb. For now this are from 20 hours of
rendering.

Then Fry is making Ambient occlusion, Depth map, Alpha and id material
layers all in the same rendering too!

Some post processing in Photoshop with all that maps (to make depth fog
for example).

The scene is cooking more to delete all noise possible, but I post it as final
with some rescale from original resolution... more final in the next days...
the night shot is not perfect and it need more rendering and post...

In all the making process Fry was very smooth and solid with LW plug-in and
engine. This is the better version of all time, and Feversoft has make it
very productive for a fast pipeline.


ADL
www.imagonet.it
www.fryrender.it

http://www.hypergraphics.it/fry/NY2.jpg
http://www.hypergraphics.it/fry/NY1.jpg
http://www.hypergraphics.it/fry/NY3.jpg

archijam
12-04-2007, 03:35 AM
Hi ADL.

Interesing works there, i feel 'one of those threads' coming on ... ;)

There are great things in each of the renders, but IMO there are a few things letting the scene down. I am not referring at all to Fry, I have no doubts it is a good renderer. Unfortuantely the last 'Fry thread' did not fare so well ..

Some points I have to mention:

- The building in the middle. The level of detail, modeling and texturing are not as confincing as the rest of the very nice buildings in the scene.

- The reliance on tiled images. This is especially noticable on the street to the left and the building in the middle.

- The fog is a nice touch, but is a little over blown in the second image, causing the scene behind to be washed out.

- The night scene is not working. Lit windows may work like that on a very small scale, but it is clear this is a photoshop layer selection over the rendered background. The yellow/white light contrast is too much. All of the lights are on. The buildings in the far background are still in sun ... ? Seems that some of the textures have high diffuse levels, there are almost no 'dark' areas in the whole scene (except for the right corner). And lose the plane.

I hope you take my comments as constructive :)


j.

ADL
12-04-2007, 04:03 AM
THANK YOU Archijam for your comments,
you have reason on all the line!

Those are fast post processing tests for a scene in rendering,
more attention to the details in the final one that I will post
soon :)

ADL
www.imagonet.it
www.fryrender.it

MooseDog
12-04-2007, 06:30 AM
one small detail to consider: there would never be a plane that close to mid-town. i should think the reasons would be easily understood. it very quickly and completely "un-sells" the shot, which is obviously complicated and well done :thumbsup: i lived in manhattan for 10 years, and everything from the color of the air to the grit on the sidewalks and buildings you successfully captured, at least in the first image.

ben martin
12-04-2007, 07:11 AM
Other small details to consider:

All windows (all houses/flats divisions) have the lights turned on?
That is almost a shoot in a million!
Turn off some window lights randomly!

About the night (twilight) shadows, yes... there are shadows from the sun in the buildings and you need to equalize the scene to match the sidewalk darkness shadows.

Some fumes/vapors coming from the sough would increase realism.
At night the low temperatures usually evaporate the underground sough waters.

The yellow light windows mixed with white are not working at all.

Night image - the walk side is very texture grainy.

Oh yes, windows glass transparency is also missing.
You ca try to map real windows photo to the buildings windows!

Nevertheless this won't work to a movie production... 20 hours rendering per frame? Oh boy!!!!
It's a very good try city-environment attempt though. :thumbsup:

ADL
12-04-2007, 07:23 AM
MooseDog:yeah I know, but I live near one of 3 aereoports of Rome, and I love to see them very near to the houses! Yeah it's very very dangerous but the city is grow around one of this aereoport (Ciampino) and the aeroplanes fly more near the houses than in the image:

Ben Martin: This is a cover for a book at high print resolution,
the noise and grain depends from the rendering that is not ended,
the noise disappear with hours of rendering...

The night shot is only a wip with minimal post processing that Fry is making while make the day shot. Yeah you have read well.
I can turn off/on lights, change colours and intensity of each (10 light layers), turn on/off the sky and the sun and mix all in real time while the program is rendering! Then consider a very complex scene of over 2.5 milions of polygons with 800 single materials that the LW plug-in have translated without any error!

Then the program in the same time is rendering all the other render pass (alpha map, occlusion, depth map, id material, etc.) for the same image that you can use in post processing...

ADL
www.imagonet.it
www.fryrender.it

ADL
12-04-2007, 07:39 AM
some photos of planes over the city

http://www.md80.it/bbforum/viewtopic.php?p=18902&sid=3a146bb6af6ae12b1e451086c0ff583d

ADL
www.imagonet.it
www.fryrender.it

MooseDog
12-04-2007, 10:22 AM
sounds like you have a huge! scene well sussed-out. it's a ton of work, all my respect.

if you want to sell the image as photo-real manhattan, the plane will un-sell it. anyone here remember 9/11?

actually, you have to go all the way back to 1937 (?) when a plane crashed into the empire state building (accidentally) for when commercial aviation was banned over manhattan island. approaches and departures from all 3 airports: laguardia, kennedy, newark stick to this law and avoid manhattan.

you could say brooklyn or queens or staten island or the bronx and it would work exactly as you have described rome.

:thumbsup:

MooseDog
12-04-2007, 10:46 AM
oops, just dawned on me. don't want there to be any mis-understandings. your artistic decisions are yours. i wouldn't try to change them. just trying to help with all possible information with which to make your decisions. good luck:thumbsup:

Exception
12-04-2007, 12:08 PM
I'm not seeing anything.

Also, there's a gallery section for finished work.

Stooch
12-04-2007, 01:31 PM
looks badass. i dont like the building with spiderman either. try knocking out the contrast on the texture its too computer gamish looking right now.

vashts
12-04-2007, 04:01 PM
looks badass. i dont like the building with spiderman either. try knocking out the contrast on the texture its too computer gamish looking right now.
agree, the original version (http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19143&d=1111142569) rendered with LW8.5 renderer is far nicer and more realistic than those three rendered with a physically correct unbiased engine.. :hey:

and here (http://www.lwita.com/articles/lightwave_v900/articolo.php?pag=index06) (it's italian but just watch graphs) you can see how quick you can render this scene with LW9.0..

vashts

ADL
12-05-2007, 12:43 AM
Vashts (G. Rescaldini): those are not final versions, the last one will have some of the original texture maps as baking and other adjustament...

ADL
www.imagonet.it
www.fryrender.it

Limbus
12-05-2007, 12:52 AM
agree, the original version (http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19143&d=1111142569) rendered with LW8.5 renderer is far nicer and more realistic than those three rendered with a physically correct unbiased engine.. :hey:


Hi Gabriele,
have you tried rendering that scene with Kray?

Cheers, Florian

Iain
12-05-2007, 04:58 AM
I think the quality of this will really have to be raised to do any justice to Fry.

I remember being blown away by the original and this looks pretty ordinary (model complexity aside) at the moment.

vashts
12-05-2007, 05:04 AM
Vashts (G. Rescaldini): those are not final versions, the last one will have some of the original texture maps as baking and other adjustament...
hope to see some improvements..
(and.. well, it's Rescaldani.. but in CG forums I prefer to be called only vashts as always)

Hi Gabriele,
have you tried rendering that scene with Kray?
hi limbus, no, I haven't tried because the scene isn't mine. I have to ask the author (Vass) if I can edit it (because you know that some shading adjusting is needed when using Kray to take advantage of its peculiarities).. I'll ask him.

vashts

ADL
12-05-2007, 05:25 AM
@Vashts. The complete scene is part of CD-Rom's book of Simone Vassallo ((C) Imago Edizioni) and any other use MUST BE written authorized from the Editor.

ADL
www.imagonet.it
www.fryrender.it

vashts
12-05-2007, 03:06 PM
@Vashts. The complete scene is part of CD-Rom's book of Simone Vassallo ((C) Imago Edizioni) and any other use MUST BE written authorized from the Editor.
uh, really?
so..

Hi Gabriele,
have you tried rendering that scene with Kray?
no, I haven't tried and no, sorry, I can't do it.

vashts