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View Full Version : The best quality FLV? Out of VT[5]



milena
12-03-2007, 12:09 PM
Hey,
I've recently upgraded to VT5 from VT4. I am looking for a way to produce the best quality flv video file. In VT4 I used to capture uncompressed (.rtv) video and then render as movie file with H.264 encoder, and then use the FFMPEG to convert it to FLV.
Now, VT5 allows you to render FLV, but the quality is somewhat worse then the old way I did in VT4. And I wasn't happy with the old way either. It's weird because videos that we shot and then brought into Final Cut Pro, and rendered as Quick Time files, they convert into flv much better. I don't know if the VT4's codec for .mov gives worse conversion into .flv? hmm
Anyhow, my question is: does anyone have any suggestions on how should I capture and export my project, meaning what codecs would make the best combination, in order to get the best quality FLV video?

ScorpioProd
12-03-2007, 02:31 PM
Well, problem is, the only FLV codec that SpeedEDIT uses is an older codec that isn't as good as H.264.

I'm not clear how you were doing H.264 in VT[4], though... That codec wasn't in there.

dmk75
12-04-2007, 01:43 AM
I have the same question. Most of my work is for the web in FLV format both SD and HD 720p. I need to know what is the best output settings/codec from SE/VT5 to get the best results when converting to flash. I'm using Sorensone Squeeze 4.5 with VP6 Pro plugin for flash compression. Anybody with experience?
:help:
Thanks

Tom Wood
12-04-2007, 06:19 PM
I do 3D animation, so take that in mind. YMMV for live action and HD.

I render out TGA image sequences from LightWave, then use Mirage to composite and render out uncompressed RTVs that are used in VT4 where I render out an uncompressed BGR24 AVI. Playing straight off the hard drives it looks great.

Then I use the commercial version of the ON2 VP6 encoder to do 2-pass VBR encoding to FLV. They package the 'home' version with other products, including Flash 8, so it's important to buy the real deal to get 2-pass VBR. $249. Using that, experiment with the video bitrate and the keyframe interval to get the best compromise between quality and end bitrate, including audio.

I upload the end product to my video hosting site -without- using their uploader/encoder so what I make on my computer is what I get at that end too. Way important, that bit.

Now, a lot of this goes away starting in the next few days if Adobe is really on schedule and releases the Flash 9 player enabled to play H.264. Once Flash Player 9 gets to 98% penetration on the web (about 12-18 months) it seems to me that ON2 VP6 is history. Useful until then, but history nonetheless. The question I have is: Does this mean little old $39 Quicktime Pro is center stage?

And is Adobe on schedule with the Flash 9 player? They said 'fall' 2007.

Alch
12-06-2007, 01:04 PM
Can we get the VT to use another Flash codec? I also use the On2 VP6 encoder for flash. My life would be a lot easier if I could just render right to that instead of doing a MPEG or Video for Windows file then encoding that.

ScorpioProd
12-06-2007, 10:20 PM
Well, honestly, SpeedEDIT is already two generations behind in terms of Flash codecs. It uses the one from before On2 VP6. And now H.264 is released for Flash.

Yes, Adobe Flash 9 Player is already out.

ted
12-06-2007, 11:08 PM
While features are nice, I would hope NewTek puts more resources towards supporting current formats.
So much of the production process today calls for input and output of these formats. It's not as simple as outputting/dubbing to Beta or DV now days.

Tom Wood
12-07-2007, 05:49 AM
Yes, Adobe Flash 9 Player is already out.

Heh, well it is NOW. :D

Same day release as my question, now that's service! :thumbsup:

milena
12-07-2007, 09:08 AM
Tom, thank you for reply. I post my videos on our website, hence no additional encoders used to put it up. I was wondering how do your videos look on the web. Could you send me a link to an example, or maybe take a look at the website with my video and tell me how much worse it looks. It's
www.locatestock.com
I cannot convert the .avi files into .flv with the FFMpeg, and before I purchase the ON2 VP6 encoder I'd like to confirm that it's worthwhile.

To respond to Eugene, the H.264 codec in VT[4] creates a movie file, and I just have it. You should also have it under the Quick Time formats.

Now, how does this Flash 9 player change everything, and how exactly could I make a use of it?

Just to clarify, since I'm not that knowledgeable, the H.264 codec: converts only to movie files, or to flv as well?

Also, all my uncompressed .avi renders in VT[4] come with uncompressed PCM audio, which doesn't play in any of my players. I get wonderful image, but no sound. Do you know if this is supposed to be like that?

Thanks guys.

ScorpioProd
12-07-2007, 12:34 PM
To respond to Eugene, the H.264 codec in VT[4] creates a movie file, and I just have it. You should also have it under the Quick Time formats.

Are you sure you're not thinking of H.263? That's the only "H" codec available under QT in VT[4].

H.264 is a QT 7 codec which VT[4] does not support, since it doesn't actually support QT 7 at all. Actually, even with VT[5], there are no QT 7 codecs supported in VT[5].

milena
12-07-2007, 12:39 PM
I am pretty sure it's H.264 that I use. I got both codecs as an option, but I'm using the 264. Or at least so it says in the render panel.

Jim_C
12-07-2007, 03:06 PM
I am pretty sure it's H.264 that I use. I got both codecs as an option, but I'm using the 264. Or at least so it says in the render panel.


I just tried H264 out of SE like this for the first time.
The file looks nice,but it's huge. 125megs for 3:20.

Is there bitrate settings for H264 inside of SE somewhere?
The little 'C' doesn't do anything.

I can get similar quality from SE using its mpeg4 output at 1500Kbps.
With the file size around 35megs.

If you have to use an intermediate file from VT to your flv converter. Maybe give the mpeg4 codec a try. Try bitrates from 1500 up.

Isn't that mpeg4 a H263 codec anyway? Or am I all screwed up on ifo there?
Whatever it is, I have been playing with it a lot lately and it has nice results from what I can tell.

Jim

Tom Wood
12-07-2007, 06:14 PM
Tom, thank you for reply. I post my videos on our website, hence no additional encoders used to put it up. I was wondering how do your videos look on the web. Could you send me a link to an example, or maybe take a look at the website with my video and tell me how much worse it looks. It's
www.locatestock.com
I cannot convert the .avi files into .flv with the FFMpeg, and before I purchase the ON2 VP6 encoder I'd like to confirm that it's worthwhile.

If you click on my name or icon you'll get a link to my homepage. Click on the first "Click here to watch this cartoon" button and you'll see an example of ON2 VP6 2-pass VBR at about 700kps bitrate. It seems to load and stream okay to me.

Animation presents a real challenge to encoders because it has large areas of color/texture that needs to be uniform. At normal resolution my video looks okay, but if you go to big screen you'll see some artifacts.

Your site video played very choppy on my web-browsing machine, but it's an old P3 650Ghz, so maybe not a good indication.

Tom Wood
12-07-2007, 06:16 PM
I just tried H264 out of SE like this for the first time.
The file looks nice,but it's huge. 125megs for 3:20.

I'm getting about 15 megs for a 2 minute video done in ON2 VP6 2-pass VBR. I think using Quicktime Pro I got about the same size for H.264 but also a nicer image.

ScorpioProd
12-07-2007, 11:01 PM
Hmmh... I do see H.264 in VT[4] now... But I could have sworn it didn't used to be... Interesting...

But when I hit the Configure option for it in VT[4] or SpeedEDIT, nothing comes up, so I can't set data rate or anything.

Jim_C
12-08-2007, 12:13 PM
But when I hit the Configure option for it in VT[4] or SpeedEDIT, nothing comes up, so I can't set data rate or anything.

Quoted for agreement.

Unless I can get a more useable file size thru bitrate management, it's useless.

lvsoule
12-10-2007, 11:43 AM
I use Sorenson Squeeze 4.5 and it does a good job. It does require you to build your own .swf files in Flash. It's about $500 and a ON2 something plugin is usually an extra $99. When I'm done with a video, I just drop it into Sorenson and have it do a batch convert into all the internet fun formats.
-Larry