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View Full Version : Please dont be mad y'all but i'm trying!!!



tcvivrant
12-01-2007, 05:43 PM
i've been reading some tutorials on layout and the like but i really cant find one or am i just not following on the tutorials. I am trying to do a 360 degree panoramic thing of a glass bottle i just completed modeling, thanks to the help of mr Surrealist..yay! thanks. i think i figured out the texturing but i cant seem to do the whole 360 thing. please direct me to some tutorials and give pointers. i would greatly appreciate.

i have attached the object and so hey...if givin direction is hard for you...u cud put in a scene and i can reverse-engineer-ha ha ha.... any i appreciate and any all help guys. thanks

My Bottle.rar (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/10/493990/bottle.rar)

othornton
12-02-2007, 05:14 AM
Here's a scene for you:
52709
Just load your object, position the focus null, set lighting, and hit F10 to render. The scene is a simple setup for a 360. Basically the camera is parented to the focus null and also targeted to it via the motion options panel (m). This way you can animate the camera's height independently of the focus and it will still point at your object. You can also do the same to your lights if you want so that every angle gets the same lighting as the camera turns. The focus null is currently keyed to rotate 360 degrees in 120 frames, and the render settings are set to render frames 0-119. You won't need frame 120 because it will be a duplicate of the 1st frame, frame 0. If you plan to cycle the 360 you will want to leave 120 off for a smooth animation.

This is really just one option for a 360. The simplest way would be to rotate the object itself. This is easily done by deciding the length of your rotation (say 120 frames) and either manually creating a keyframe at frame 120 or set Auto Key to on and scrub to frame 120, then just create the rotation. The only problem with rotating the object is that the floor/backdrop won't rotate. The focus null approach gives a little more control and will familiarize you with the kinds of parenting setups generally used for controlling your cameras and objects in scenes.

Apologies if this explanation is somewhat vague. You should probably thoroughly read all the intro LW tutorials available on Newtek's website as well as the Layout PDF available for download, especially articles/tutorials pertaining to Layout, the Scene Editor, Motion Panel, Graph Editor, etc. There is also a wealth of tutorials available through Scott Cameron's LW Tutorial Index:
http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials%20/Main_Menu.htm
Hope this helps. Don't forget to set the output directory and filename in the render globals before you render.

-Oliver

tcvivrant
12-02-2007, 03:55 PM
thanks a lot man.

tcvivrant
12-02-2007, 04:44 PM
so what is wrong with my latest render (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/10/493990/1%20water.avi)? here is the scene (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/10/493990/1%20water.rar) if needed. additions and subtractions are much appreciated.

one other question if i wanted to present this on a stage would i have to model one....?

Hopper
12-02-2007, 05:11 PM
It looks as if you are moving your camera down in the Y axis, but you are not adjusting the pitch to compensate for the drop. I didn't load the scene, but I'm assuming you need to either raise your focus null up in the Y axis or back your camera out some to keep the entire bottle in the frame.

othornton
12-03-2007, 12:45 AM
If you make the camera view your main view you can make a preview of your animation prior to render to make sure your object stays in frame. You can render a preview using the preview options found down by the timeline controls.
When setting up your camera, make sure your preferences are set to show safe areas. This will give you a frame in your camera view that shows the edges of your render area, which should also help you keep things in frame.

As for a background, yes you'll have to model it or download one from a model site like turbosquid. Lightwave does not have any automatic backdrop options that will catch the shadows your object casts. You can either make the object in a separate layer in Modeler or just make it as a completely different object.

-Oliver

tcvivrant
12-03-2007, 07:20 AM
It looks as if you are moving your camera down in the Y axis, but you are not adjusting the pitch to compensate for the drop. I didn't load the scene, but I'm assuming you need to either raise your focus null up in the Y axis or back your camera out some to keep the entire bottle in the frame.


when i first read this i was half-asleep and i didnt know what u were talkin about, but it makes sense now. i will definitely give it a shot when i get home fromwork

tcvivrant
12-03-2007, 07:28 AM
ha ha ha...turbosquid....pricy pricy pricy! i'll try to model something

Surrealist.
12-03-2007, 01:33 PM
when i first read this i was half-asleep and i didnt know what u were talkin about, but it makes sense now. i will definitely give it a shot when i get home fromwork


You have the camera targeted and that overrides the pitch.

tcvivrant
12-03-2007, 03:14 PM
so i should reposition the null then!? makes sense enough

Surrealist.
12-03-2007, 05:35 PM
so i should reposition the null then!? makes sense enough

Exactly.

tcvivrant
12-04-2007, 08:52 AM
the render was nice with the anti-aliasing and ray trace stuff but...now i just need to do sumn about that black background. ideas welcome?!? will post render later

tcvivrant
12-04-2007, 06:21 PM
what do you all think now? Render Here (http://www.zshare.net/video/5379548b58b10c/)

Surrealist.
12-05-2007, 01:49 AM
Cool. Looking better. Looks like you have a keyframe at the end with the null at the bottom.

So now you can slow down the animation to about half speed. Also start the animation with about 10 frames or so of no motion then start the rotation and and with a few frames of no motion so it has a start middle and an end.

As far as the surfacing goes you need to either put it in environment with something to reflect or give it an image as a spherical map in the environment tab (set to spherical map).

tcvivrant
12-05-2007, 09:08 AM
thanks for the pointers richard. you'vr been a great help. as far as a spherical map is concerned will any kind of image work do i need to be specific. if you could give me some examples i'd be very grateful

Surrealist.
12-05-2007, 12:53 PM
One thing you can do is look in your LW content directory that came with LW. There is a reflection folder in the images folder. That is a good place to start. But basically the image is supposed to be what is in the environment that would be reflecting on things like glass and metal so use your imagination and experiment.

Also there are some texturing examples that come installed with LW. With the surface editor open (f5) press the s key to get the preset shelf. There you can search though categories of prest surfaces. Study them. Some of them are reflective.

tcvivrant
12-05-2007, 01:17 PM
One thing you can do is look in your LW content directory that came with LW. There is a reflection folder in the images folder. That is a good place to start. But basically the image is supposed to be what is in the environment that would be reflecting on things like glass and metal so use your imagination and experiment.

Also there are some texturing examples that come installed with LW. With the surface editor open (f5) press the s key to get the preset shelf. There you can search though categories of prest surfaces. Study them. Some of them are reflective.


thanks will definitely give it a look-see when i get home

tcvivrant
12-06-2007, 09:46 AM
i messed something up...this was to be my final render (http://www.geocities.com/irep214/bottle.avi) but you be the judge...its not even transparent anymore...HELP!!! :(

othornton
12-06-2007, 11:02 AM
Hi TC, you seem to have run into one of the perils of CG graphics: human error. Answer the following questions for yourself:
What did you change? It may be as simple as ray tracing transparency being off, but it may also be a surface setting. If you can't find either of those to be the problem, you may need to upload your scene and model in a zip file for any of us to be able to help.
Did you add a spherical map for reflections? If so, where in the surface did you load it?
Why is the top so super bright? There are some crazy flickering specular highlights in your avi about 2 seconds in.

If you upload the scene and and model and any images you are using for textures I would be glad to take a look for you, but with just the video file it's hard to ascertain exactly what is the problem.

Another question: Do you want this animation to loop? If so you probably want to make the first and last frames the same for a smoother loop.

Looking good so far though. I hope you're able to figure this out yourself, but if you are unable I will gladly take a crack at it.

-Oliver

mr.goodkatt
12-06-2007, 11:07 AM
first post i've read since joining today (been avoiding joining like the plague)... can't wait to learn & contribute if this is any indication about the kind of forum community this is...AWESOME!... way to share the knowledge, surrealist :)

tcvivrant
12-06-2007, 11:39 AM
oliver

honestly, i definitely changed sumn....i was trying to add a spherical map thats when all hell broke loose. i then tried to reverse it but yea...i think u see the result... i will upload the zip file in the evening. thanks for looking at it.

the end result is want to place on a powerpoint slide for a presentation. i guess the last frame is offset because i was tryin to get the top view as well so that i can show all important angles of the bottle. i guess... we can sort this out...

look for an update around 5pm CST. thank you sir.

Surrealist.
12-06-2007, 11:39 AM
f
irst post i've read since joining today (been avoiding joining like the plague)... can't wait to learn & contribute if this is any indication about the kind of forum community this is...AWESOME!... way to share the knowledge, surrealist

Welcome. :) Glad you finally took the plunge. Lots of great info on this site all the time. I learn something new every day. Just happy to share what I can when I can because others are doing the same for me every time I visit.

EDIT: tcvivrant, glad you are getting it sorted out.

tcvivrant
12-06-2007, 01:22 PM
EDIT: tcvivrant, glad you are getting it sorted out.

Thanks a lot Richard...without your help i wouldn't have made it this far. Keep doing what you do! :thumbsup:

tcvivrant
12-06-2007, 05:39 PM
here's that scene and object...i just zipped em. i hope thats all you need. dont hv a good image for the environment so i didnt place one. there should be three files in the .rar (http://www.zshare.net/download/54283415a5ba21/) file: object, scene, and 1 .png file.

othornton
12-06-2007, 09:54 PM
Ok, I found the problem. First off you want to clean up your model a bit. You have a few surfaces you don't need, as well as geometry inside the glass that is unnecessary unless you want to simulate a liquid inside. Additionally, the polys of the I part of the logo are reversed. One tip for selecting and changing surfaces: Select one poly on each mesh you want to adjust, then hit ] to select all connected polys, then use q to assign them all the same surface. Repeat until the only surfaces you have are the ones you need: whole, Top, and final logo. WIth Lightwave's new volume stacking, you shouldn't really need the extra internal surfaces to simulate air to glass transitions, so you can delete the extra shells until you just have two: inner and outer.

You may also want to check out wordware's addendum to their book on Texturing in LW9, you can find the link by searching these forums for wordware. In there you can find instructions and samples for the material shader nodes, which can be used to more accurately simulate glass and liquids.

Ok, now on to the transparency issue. The issue was actually the map you tried to apply to your refraction environment. You had it set to spherical map only, which means it will literally only show what you load in as a map. Since I didn't get the StudyEnviro.jpg in the zip I can't tell you what it would look like if it worked. However, you want to change it to either Ray-tracing+Backdrop or Ray-Tracing+Spherical map.

The reason for this is that the Ray-tracing is necessary for seeing through the object and any objects beyond. You would only want to use spherical mapping only when the object is in the background (say a diamond pyramid on the horizon, etc), but ray-tracing is pretty essential when the object is this close. For your purposes you need the ray-tracing for transparency and refraction, but can easily add a spherical map to add the illusion of a surrounding environment when there is none. I'm sure you've seen this in car commercials, which often use cg cars for the sake of art direction (easy to change color on demand instead of having a dozen real cars in studio) and reflections maps are used to create reflections and specular highlights from lights that don't really exist. If you do plan to put if a backdrop it will only add to the detail.

For your scene I would say you want Reflection:Ray+Sphere for the glass and the logo and top, but for Refraction on the glass set it to Ray+Backdrop. Load your spherical image into the appropriate slots and render away. If you don't like the one you have you can find several just by doing a google image search for reflection map. If the seam shows up in your render, just set the image seam angle to 180 degrees and re-render.

I also noticed that the ray recursion was set to 3 in the render panel. I don't remember if this is from the scene I sent you or a setting you changed, but the rule of thumb for rendering transparent objects is at least 1 ray for each overlapping transparent surface. 2 if you want a really good render or have a lot of reflections that have to return through those same transparent surfaces. LW's default is 16, so you may want to start there and move down until you're comfortable that you're getting a good mix of render speed and detail. I think you're safe at around 6 or 8 depending on whether or not you add a backdrop wall or a table surface.

As for looping the animation, you can set the timeline to 240 and copy the graph editor values for your null and camera from the first frame to the last. Alternatively, you could copy your frames from 120 to frame 0 without expanding your timeline. There are ample examples of graph editor tutorials, so I won't bore you with details here. When you set the render range, set it from 0-239 and the avi should come out as a smooth looping animation with two turns, so you can pause on the PowerPoint slide as long as you want. If you get comfortable editing your keyframes in the graph editor you may even want to just scale your keys out and slow down the rotation.

Hope this helps. If you're unable to fix it following these steps, let me know and I'll send you the corrected scene. Since I'm one of those teach people to fish folk though I'd rather you conquer this hurdle yourself.

One more tip, shift+left click will remove those pesky T and E channels you accidentally added to your surface colors.

Cheers,

-Oliver

tcvivrant
12-07-2007, 05:21 AM
:confused:

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? this is me saying...i've been at it for abt an hour and half and i'm not getting the desirable results. could i maybe work around that corrected scene for comparison's sake on this end and learn backwards i suppose :sleeping:

oh....if u have an image tht you think would work well for the backdrop...please share.... looking forward to your response

thanks again

othornton
12-07-2007, 10:09 AM
Lol, no prob, I'll load it after I run a quick errand. Sorry if my explanation was a little obtuse. I'll also try and get some links to tutorials that explain it better than I can.

-Oliver

tcvivrant
12-07-2007, 11:34 AM
Lol, no prob, I'll load it after I run a quick errand. Sorry if my explanation was a little obtuse. I'll also try and get some links to tutorials that explain it better than I can.

-Oliver

thanks a lot. its much appreciated. i'm humbled by the fact that my interest in learning is a concern for guys such as yourself and Richard. Thanks a lot guys. I'm glad i didnt buy Maya...lol

othornton
12-07-2007, 03:26 PM
Ok I have the scene file all set but Newtek's forum won't let me upload it for some reason. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it directly. Here's a test render:

52911

-Oliver

Surrealist.
12-07-2007, 05:40 PM
Nice Job Oliver!


TC, you have something to back engineer now!

tcvivrant
12-07-2007, 05:57 PM
yea! its great innit? exceeds all my expectations that for sure! thanks Oliver

othornton
12-07-2007, 08:01 PM
Thanks guys :)
That's my first ever attempt at lighting glass and fluid, so I'm sure it could improve somehow. For example I just noticed the spherical map on the BG globe repeats itself at the image seam. I guess a UVMap could fix it perhaps or you could remove the globe and add the spherical image as a Textured Environment. If you don't need/like the fluid it should be easy to remove in Modeler. If you do like it you can easily change the color and absorption in the nodes for the fluid surface to whatever you like.

Things I changed:
The geometry has been optimized a bit and all stray surfaces removed.
Frames added to 240 and render range set to 239 for smooth loop.
Reflection maps added to all surfaces, even the table. Even if you strip out the node shaders the surfaces should still reflect correctly.
BG Sphere added, but seam may need to be removed or cleverly avoided with camera angles. Aw heck, I'm feeling generous, I added a UVmap and resent the lwo, just replace the one in the zip.

I think that covers it. Shoot me an email if you run into problems or have questions.

-Oliver