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AmigaNewTek
11-27-2007, 05:50 AM
Hi folks,

there is a poll on the Luxrender website named: "I'd like to see an exporter developed for:". Lightwave still ahead of the other 3D apps. Please vote, maybe we will have a free unbiased rendering engine for Lightwave.

http://www.luxrender2.org/

:thumbsup:

archijam
11-27-2007, 06:06 AM
Good to finally see some better (although also some worse ... the water .. ?) examples in their gallery .. the interior out of blender? Nice.

People on the Linux thread may finally have a chance to render natively ;) ...

Iain
11-27-2007, 06:15 AM
I voted. Only 114 people have so far.

There's been some really good Blender+Indigo stuff popping up on CGTalk.
Amazing what can be done with free software nowadays.

Ztreem
11-27-2007, 07:19 AM
the site seems to be down at the moment, but free is always welcome. :)

Captain Obvious
11-27-2007, 07:42 AM
I voted modo! Please don't ban me! :p

Iain
11-27-2007, 07:44 AM
I voted modo! Please don't ban me! :p

Look out, the fanboys are coming.

mav3rick
11-27-2007, 07:50 AM
it looks like crap... checked gallery

ana027
11-27-2007, 07:51 AM
Looks great this project. I vote now for the lw exporter.

Iain
11-27-2007, 08:04 AM
it looks like crap... checked gallery

Thanks for that. You've saved us all from wasting our time. phew!

The gallery will probably look a lot better in 6 months but yeah you're right, what's the point? Who wants a free unbiased render engine that accepts LW exports?

Ztreem
11-27-2007, 08:06 AM
I voted for Lightwave. It would be great with a LW exporter for both the Lux render and the Indigo renderer.

*Pete*
11-27-2007, 08:14 AM
it looks like crap... checked gallery

the renderer is work in progress..i think version 0.1 now.

loads of time to improve, and anyway a lot is up to the artists themselfs (regarding things in the gallery).

Exception
11-27-2007, 08:23 AM
For a new and 0.1 render engine this thing is impressive. Checked the features list? That thing is going to kick some soft behinds when it gets some attention... hopefully there's some good developers sticking their time in.

Matt
11-27-2007, 09:41 AM
Voted.

Hell, if it's free stuff! Why would you NOT vote?!?!?!

mav3rick
11-27-2007, 10:35 AM
i think u guys lost yourself in photons

Steamthrower
11-27-2007, 11:14 AM
Yes, at first I was hesitant to even waste my time since I remembered the horrible renders they used to have. Some of these however are pretty darn good.

I must admit I voted for Lightwave. I didn't do it from a fanboy perspective but from a what-I-need perspective.

cresshead
11-27-2007, 11:23 AM
you should have seen Vray when it was being developed..it looked totally UN-IMPRESSIVE back then... the worst of the bunch [vray, final render,arnold and brazil]
but it turned out to be THE best for interior and exterior building shots.

early days for this renderer...don't knock it till it's abit more mature...

currently it looks not too bad in some renders.

Titus
11-27-2007, 11:38 AM
The luxrender format is very similar to RenderMan RIBs. I don't have time to tweak my exporter, but maybe someone else has both the time and incentive.

ana027
11-27-2007, 03:15 PM
I can see that these kinds of renders are now a way to the future renders. I can see a big difference between the physically based renders engines and the old raytraced methods, with the old raytraced you can fake a great gi or you can use and ordinary gi method. The only thing bad things of these renders for the moment is the bigger renders time. I think that in the future this renders times goes down. The newest version of indigo 1.04 release today. The lasts versions are faster than the versions of few months ago. Luxrender is new and free and have a lot off options for a preliminary version.

mav3rick
11-27-2007, 03:27 PM
nothing so impressive lw render cant do

JeffrySG
11-27-2007, 03:39 PM
Looks promising either way. And I especially like that they have a Mac version going as well. Voted for LW... :)

Ztreem
11-27-2007, 03:42 PM
nothing so impressive lw render cant do

Yes it is, nice caustics. :D
but then again almost every render out there can do nicer caustics than LW.

mav3rick
11-28-2007, 04:56 AM
caustic.... hmmmm really interesting

Iain
11-28-2007, 05:06 AM
caustic.... hmmmm really interesting

Your posts are giving me a real laugh.
It's like having a surly teenager around :thumbsup:

This engine does a lot of things already that LW can't without employing a tone of tricks and workarounds.
Seriously, what's the problem with taking early interest in something promising?

-EsHrA-
11-28-2007, 06:35 AM
nothing so impressive lw render cant do

errrrrr... rrr .... errrrrrr .... errr. pls look again.
yes lw is better than max scanline and maybe even better then blender internal but...uhm... come on.

lw engine is old and looks like it.


mlon

mav3rick
11-28-2007, 01:32 PM
Your posts are giving me a real laugh.
It's like having a surly teenager around :thumbsup:

This engine does a lot of things already that LW can't without employing a tone of tricks and workarounds.
Seriously, what's the problem with taking early interest in something promising?


well at least i have fun to flame you guys :P
what can i say next....... emmmmmmm...... i hatte any free solutions neither i like to waste time on that kinda stuff.... i would rather pay for kray and be happy with quality and network render pretty soon...

waiting for reply iain :)

Iain
11-28-2007, 02:00 PM
well at least i have fun to flame you guys :P
what can i say next....... emmmmmmm...... i hatte any free solutions neither i like to waste time on that kinda stuff.... i would rather pay for kray and be happy with quality and network render pretty soon...

waiting for reply iain :)

That post was rubbish. Bring back the real mav3rick!

mav3rick
11-28-2007, 02:01 PM
oh cmon... i just started to have fun.... lemme see......

i am rubber you are glue....

mav3rick
11-28-2007, 02:13 PM
No one will ever catch ME fighting as badly as you do.

:)

anyway stay me well and njoy luxorender ... im off to sleep

greent
12-02-2007, 03:31 PM
well, we've dropped on place two in some 3 days :-(

AmigaNewTek
12-09-2007, 11:35 AM
Who has not voted, should vote to bring LW on top!

AmigaNewTek
12-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Who has not voted yet? Please vote now. We are gaining marging against Maya.

:)

loki74
12-19-2007, 10:54 AM
eh? Unless we can get another 200+ people to vote... (=_=) Oh well, I voted. As others have said, not out of fanboyism, but out of the fact that I sure wouldn't mind having another free tool at my disposal.

They should weigh the votes against the approximate size of each userbase! That would even the playing field! lol

byte_fx
12-19-2007, 11:28 AM
voted for lw.

maya was in the lead at 41% (as though it needs another renderer) with lw in second at 26%.

jnddepew
12-19-2007, 06:40 PM
I voted! ---for lightwave!

Titus
12-19-2007, 06:55 PM
This thread has three times more reads than the poll :thumbsdow

eagleeyed
12-19-2007, 07:35 PM
Well I just voted for Lightwave, if its second with a very high amount of votes compared to all the other options I still think they might see there is a very high demand for it in Lightwave and will make an exporter. Just a theory.

Still would be good to beat Maya though, they already have enough renderers.

Steamthrower
12-19-2007, 07:44 PM
This thread has three times more reads than the poll :thumbsdow

Yes, but the thread reads count return visits. And I've clicked on this thread probably a dozen different times. I can't exactly vote for Lightwave dozens of times, can I?

Titus
12-19-2007, 08:57 PM
I can't exactly vote for Lightwave dozens of times, can I?

Yes you can as long as you change IP.

StevieB
12-19-2007, 09:28 PM
LOL, I just voted, please please please vote!

StevieB
12-19-2007, 09:29 PM
Alias Maya
508 40.8%
Lightwave 3D
342 27.5%

:P LAME!

Steamthrower
12-20-2007, 07:29 AM
Yes you can as long as you change IP.

Yeah, but how honest is that? I could set up a proxy and give Lightwave 1,000 different votes if I wanted to.

AmigaNewTek
12-20-2007, 07:46 AM
Yeah, but how honest is that? I could set up a proxy and give Lightwave 1,000 different votes if I wanted to.

I voted once. I'm not sure that the Maya fanboys have cast only one vote. Strange, however, the fact that one day before we was ahead o the other package, while the day after we was 200 points behind.

Ztreem
12-20-2007, 08:49 AM
I have voted 3 times for lightwave. :D

Steamthrower
12-20-2007, 08:56 AM
I'll admit that I voted once for myself and once for my office. At two different locations. :D

Any more than that and I'd probably feel bad. But you're right, any dual votes by Lightwave will be countered by dual votes by Maya.

Maybe two more votes to count for all my different computers ;)

2BitSculptor
12-20-2007, 03:20 PM
Pat Paulson for President!!!


I voted for lightwave.... well... I didn't see POSER listed :D:D:D

Titus
12-20-2007, 03:25 PM
Yeah, but how honest is that? I could set up a proxy and give Lightwave 1,000 different votes if I wanted to.

How honest is an anonymous, non-representative poll? in this case those with most friends wins.

Of course they'll analyse all the information gathered and decide if it's worth to make the exporter, it's up to them.

Steamthrower
12-20-2007, 03:42 PM
Well, maybe they'll analyse the data and see that since the Lightwave users fudged and voted a dozen times each, we must be really passionate about the LuxRender engine...

JCG
12-20-2007, 10:20 PM
Alias Maya
508 40.8%
Lightwave 3D
342 27.5%

It's now:

Alias Maya
510 39.4%
Lightwave 3D
364 28.2%

So we've gained 22 votes in the same amount of time that they gained 2.

AmigaNewTek
12-21-2007, 08:17 AM
Only 42 points from Maya.

:D

StevieB
12-21-2007, 11:01 AM
YES! Keep going!

AmigaNewTek
05-12-2008, 05:42 AM
http://www.luxrender.net/index.php?option=com_poll&id=16:

LW still ahead of the others. Please cast your vote!!!:jam:

novawave
05-12-2008, 07:27 AM
Go..go ..go Lightwave....

......
(scream on Mr. Tyrot's song)
. vote on lightwave
...

Ztreem
05-12-2008, 07:40 AM
Then thing is, even if Lw is highest on the list it doesn't mean that it will get an exporter. Go to the Lux forum and have a look, blender, maya, XSI and cinema4D already have exporters in development. They need coders that are familiar with Lightwave and want to contibute, so if you find any direct them to the lux site. I'm skeptical that more votes will bring us a Lw exporter in a near future.

pumeco
05-12-2008, 08:13 AM
Voted LightWave :)

Steamthrower
05-12-2008, 08:17 AM
I posted a couple months ago on there asking for a LW exporter, and they said the exact same thing Ztreem here says: "We need some Lightwave developers".

SP00
07-27-2008, 09:48 PM
anyone know what is the status on LW exporter development?

Iain
07-28-2008, 01:50 AM
It's funny how few programmers ever seem interested in rendering.

You'd have thought there would be a few commercial Maxwell competitors by now rather than just Fry.

Also, there is far too much complacency in our community based on the "LW has a good renderer already" mindset imho.

Matt
07-28-2008, 03:01 AM
It's times like these I _wish_ I could program, I'd love to take a crack at this, sadly, I'm just not skilled in these departments.

:(

Lightwolf
07-28-2008, 03:23 AM
It's funny how few programmers ever seem interested in rendering.
They used to be. When studied CS almost 20 years ago, everybody either wrote a compiler or a raytracer.

Having said that, a commercially viable production renderer is a very different beast compared to something you'd code for academia.

Cheers,
Mike

Iain
07-28-2008, 03:30 AM
They used to be. When studied CS almost 20 years ago, everybody either wrote a compiler or a raytracer.

Having said that, a commercially viable production renderer is a very different beast compared to something you'd code for academia.

Cheers,
Mike

And yet it seems to always be the singular programmer who writes the most astounding engines like V-ray, Kray and Fry (albeit in the wake of Next Limit's work on Maxwell).
It doesn't seem to take a cash rich think tank since these guys are building upon existing technology.

I do know what you mean, however. It's obviously not something you could knock up over a weekend.

Lightwolf
07-28-2008, 03:53 AM
I do know what you mean, however. It's obviously not something you could knock up over a weekend.
No, not really. And sticking to a monster like that for a few years takes a lot of endurance. A bit like producing a full length CG feature on your own ;)

Luxrender is actually quite interesting because it is based on PBRT, and that ones has emerged from academia (and is probably the best documented and publicly available, "modern" renderer out there - in source code that is).

Cheers,
Mike

Iain
07-28-2008, 04:21 AM
sticking to a monster like that for a few years takes a lot of endurance. A bit like producing a full length CG feature on your own ;)


Yes all the engines I mentioned did have long periods of little or no progress but 'porting' like in the case of vray for C4d or Blendigo (Blender to Indigo) must surely be easier (or maybe I should say quicker)?

I hope I'm not belittling the work involved here-I do appreciate how big an undertaking it would be with no real reward at the end of it.

Lightwolf
07-28-2008, 04:26 AM
Yes all the engines I mentioned did have long periods of little or no progress but 'porting' like in the case of vray for C4d or Blendigo (Blender to Indigo) must surely be easier (or maybe I should say quicker)?

I hope I'm not belittling the work involved here-I do appreciate how big an undertaking it would be with no real reward at the end of it.
Well, quicker yes... but that also depends on what you want to achieve, compatbility-wise.
Do you want nodal support, LW procedurals, volumetrics? Anything like that would mean you can't just export a scene, it has to run within LW (which in turn makes network rendering a ***** to add).
And that in turn requires knowledge of the LW SDK as well as knowledge of the renderer in question. In that sense, it is easier to get started with a renderer, you can just do what you want to without being limited by APIs you have to conform to.

Cheers,
Mike

Captain Obvious
07-28-2008, 04:30 AM
There are literally thousands of small stand-alone renderers out there, many of them doing some really cool stuff. I started writing a 2D ray tracer for my TI-83 once, when I was bored in class. Getting started with a renderer is a piece of cake. It's finishing it that's a sphere pain.

SP00
07-28-2008, 08:17 AM
if the lux renderer is actually good. Can the LW export developer charge a small fee. It sound reasonable to tap into this renderer.

Lightwolf
07-28-2008, 08:21 AM
if the lux renderer is actually good. Can the LW export developer charge a small fee. It sound reasonable to tap into this renderer.
Depending on how you hook up you could, but would still need to provide the source code.
And exporter doesn't do either, unless you don't want to use any of the features I mentioned earlier.

And as soon as you add luxrender as a LW plugin the GPL comes in at full force, which includes publishing the source code.

Cheers,
Mike

Matt
07-28-2008, 01:11 PM
I could be wrong, but Mike seems like he wants to tackle this! ;)

Lightwolf
07-28-2008, 01:52 PM
I could be wrong, but Mike seems like he wants to tackle this! ;)
There is a lot that Mike would like to tackle. But in this case I see no commercial potential, and for an endeavour of that size I don't have the spare time.
I'd rather write a renderer ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Matt
07-28-2008, 03:15 PM
There is a lot that Mike would like to tackle. But in this case I see no commercial potential, and for an endeavour of that size I don't have the spare time.
I'd rather write a renderer ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Hehe! Was just trying to poke you with a stick into doing it! :twak:

:D

Lightwolf
07-28-2008, 04:02 PM
Hehe! Was just trying to poke you with a stick into doing it! :twak:

You'd need a much bigger stick than that ;)

Cheers,
Mike

monovich
07-28-2008, 04:24 PM
max is winning now by two votes.

SP00
07-28-2008, 06:43 PM
You'd need a much bigger stick than that ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Can't you do a paypal system? I'll give you some money to do it, if I can make money off it.

Iain
08-05-2008, 05:02 AM
It's been plugged on CGArchitect now so Max will, no doubt, soar ahead.

Oh well.:thumbsdow

T-Light
08-05-2008, 07:17 AM
I voted for LW, unfortunately after only a few days Max is now several hundred votes ahead.

Ztreem
08-05-2008, 08:18 AM
If you read at the Luxrender forum you'll see that the poll doesn't mean anything, if no LW plugin developer wants to do a plugin it's not likely to be any plugin for Lw. The major softwares already have a plugin for luxrender because they have developers that want and can code the plugin, no need for a poll result, we only need plugin developers that want and can spare the time to do this.

Iain
08-05-2008, 08:30 AM
I kind of got the impression that they would try to find the appropriate people to code exporters if there was enough demand.

The poll would indeed be pointless otherwise.

Ztreem
08-05-2008, 09:05 AM
I just don't think you shouldn't have your hopes too high, it's seems better to try and find a guy who can write an exporter than waiting for this poll to be reality, it's been almost a year now, no progress so far.

Cageman
08-05-2008, 02:12 PM
Also, there is far too much complacency in our community based on the "LW has a good renderer already" mindset imho.

Really?

Well, I'm sure people doesn't say NO by saing "LW already has a good renderer"... And they aren't exactly lying either. LW HAS a very good renderer, but it's more of a VFX/animation renderer than a GI/ArchViz renderer, but by the looks of it, the GI has been rewamped a couple of steps more in LW9.5. :)

I voted for an LW-version.

AmigaNewTek
09-19-2008, 06:55 AM
It's seems that the campain has some success:
http://www.luxrender.net/forum/download.php?id=1445&mode=view

DarkLight
09-19-2008, 07:31 AM
I've made a little bit more progress since posting that screen shot but i've not had as much time as i would like to work on the exporter. I'll try and post an updated screen when i get home from work.

AmigaNewTek
09-19-2008, 08:11 AM
Are you the coder of the exporter?

Please, keep up with good work.

DarkLight
09-19-2008, 08:14 AM
Are you the coder of the exporter?

Please, keep up with good work.

Yep, that's me :)

AmigaNewTek
09-19-2008, 08:34 AM
Looking forward for screenshots and updates

-EsHrA-
09-19-2008, 09:17 AM
excellent DarkLight, looking forward and keep it up.

mlon

Ztreem
09-19-2008, 09:53 AM
nice! This looks promising, keep it up.

inakito
09-23-2008, 02:07 AM
Are they developing the lw exporter?

SP00
09-23-2008, 10:15 AM
This will make you a Legend for Lux renderer in Lightwave. Keep it up :)

ana027
03-25-2009, 12:29 AM
Any news of the state of the exporter ??

love_jatc
10-26-2009, 05:18 AM
we need someone here who does it

Ztreem
10-26-2009, 11:56 AM
Blender reads .lws, I guess that's the best choice if you want to render with Luxrender at the moment.

Amurrell
10-26-2009, 12:01 PM
Every time I go to the LuxRender site I am dissapointed that there was no development for a LW exporter. 3D Studio Max, XSI, Maya, Cinema 4D, and Blender 3D all have one and heck, I voted for a LW exporter. Heck Blender is having a V-Ray exporter developed, but no LightWave exporter for Lux. Recent tests against Indigo, Maxwell, and others has Lux as a contender in the area of unbiased rendering (see LuxRender's forums). I have used LuxRender on projects, but always have to export my .lwo files to Blender first and deal with things there.

Perhaps I should join their forums and inquire as to why there was nothing developed for LW and lobby for it.

Matt
10-26-2009, 12:44 PM
Well, you gotta wonder, with CORE being announced, will people will take the time to develop for 9.6 now.

Titus
10-26-2009, 01:09 PM
Perhaps I should join their forums and inquire as to why there was nothing developed for LW and lobby for it.

Luxrender file format is rather similar to RenderMan files. I've offered the source code of my LW converter to anyone interested, part of the work is already done.

Matt
10-26-2009, 02:39 PM
Just been looking at some of the renders in the LuxRender gallery, they're nice and all, but very noisy.

Titus
10-26-2009, 02:53 PM
Just been looking at some of the renders in the LuxRender gallery, they're nice and all, but very noisy.

It's the nature of every unbiased renderer.

love_jatc
11-02-2009, 03:15 AM
Every time I go to the LuxRender site I am dissapointed that there was no development for a LW exporter. 3D Studio Max, XSI, Maya, Cinema 4D, and Blender 3D all have one and heck, I voted for a LW exporter. Heck Blender is having a V-Ray exporter developed, but no LightWave exporter for Lux. Recent tests against Indigo, Maxwell, and others has Lux as a contender in the area of unbiased rendering (see LuxRender's forums). I have used LuxRender on projects, but always have to export my .lwo files to Blender first and deal with things there.

Perhaps I should join their forums and inquire as to why there was nothing developed for LW and lobby for it.

I agree they need us to code it.

Exception
11-03-2009, 10:32 AM
It's the nature of every unbiased renderer.

Except that with most unbiased engines, it doesn't take an eon to diffuse into a virtually noise-free image, like with Fprime, Maxwell, etc.

It would be nice to have another unbiased engine for LW, but we already have 2.5... (fprime being the 0.5 as its almost, but not quite, unbiased).

Glendalough
11-03-2009, 11:02 AM
Except that with most unbiased engines, it doesn't take an eon to diffuse into a virtually noise-free image, like with Fprime, Maxwell, etc.

It would be nice to have another unbiased engine for LW, but we already have 2.5... (fprime being the 0.5 as its almost, but not quite, unbiased).

Wow, don't understand this at all. Fprime is certainly not an unbiased engine.

I believe there are only 3 or 4: Maxwell, Luxrender and Indigo -Vray maybe?

Also it doesn't take an eon to get a good render in Luxrender. The 'noise' can be quite attractive and give a real feeling of radiating light.

Amurrell
11-03-2009, 02:53 PM
Maxwell is known for it's speed ups, but depending on scene and system, LuxRender has several solutions for unbiased rendering, as I am assuming the others do as well, but you can get real good results in 20 minutes to 12 hours +. Future builds will focus on speed and other integrators and refinement of pixle samplers. In the end you can't beat free, and there are quite a few impressive renders done in Lux. I think one of the reasons behind the grainy images is the fact that there are quite a few newbie users out there rendering and run out of patience for the unbiased rendering times. The users that let their images "cook" for a while have some good stuff.

Captain Obvious
11-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Wow, don't understand this at all. Fprime is certainly not an unbiased engine.

I believe there are only 3 or 4: Maxwell, Luxrender and Indigo -Vray maybe?

Also it doesn't take an eon to get a good render in Luxrender. The 'noise' can be quite attractive and give a real feeling of radiating light.
You're making the common mistake of confusing "unbiased" with "based on real physics" they're certainly not the same. Generally speaking, a renderer that introduces noise instead of multi-pixel artifacts is unbiased, but that's not the whole truth. 'Biasedness' is a statistics thing, not a physics thing.

Iain
11-04-2009, 12:13 PM
You're making the common mistake of confusing "unbiased" with "based on real physics" they're certainly not the same. .

I think it would be more appropriate to refer to the likes of Maxwell as MLT-based engines or real physics based engines.

Unbiased just seems to have stuck however.

Matt
11-04-2009, 05:31 PM
The way I understood it was that unbiased renderers are often (but not all) based on the monte carlo algorithm (which is where the noise comes from) but that in itself does not mean physically correct. Unbiased just means it's calculating for every pixel in the scene as oppose to speeding things up by irradiance caching of some kind (biased).

Of course I could be totally wrong, and probably am!

Amurrell
11-04-2009, 06:05 PM
The more current versions of unbiased rendering engines are using Metropolis Light Transport instead of Monte Carlo, as Iain had mentioned. But, yes, from what I read there are similarities between the two.

Glendalough
11-04-2009, 07:17 PM
You're making the common mistake of confusing "unbiased" with "based on real physics" — they're certainly not the same. .....

Well I am speaking commonly here as when Maxwell is referred to as an unbiased rendering engine. Unbiased seems to be different things to different people.

"Physically based" then. Thats' what they say and also:

"LuxRender simulates the flow of light according to physical equations".

Meanwhile Maxwell says "Physically correct" and also:

"is a rendering engine based on the mathematical equations governing light transport"....

They definitely have an edge on Luxrender in corporate-speak. Such bombast! The bigger these companies, the more childish it seems. By the time I can afford Maxwell, the manuals will have become unreadable. Glad I got that off my chest.

Meanwhile here is a Luxrender (Don't say render, say Luxrender) of R.Feeney's beautiful hallstairs:

20 mins and 1hr20mins. It is illuminated with just one light outside the window, a sunsky environment, no portals. I think the idea is you just set the camera and render. No messing about with lighting, so you save some time. Put a more finished 5 hour render here:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101465&page=15

At some point they just start to look gorgeous and gorgeouser and you just want to keep them at it, hour after hour. (Thats when this free stuff gets expensive)

Captain Obvious
11-04-2009, 08:25 PM
Unbiased just means it's calculating for every pixel in the scene as oppose to speeding things up by irradiance caching of some kind (biased).

Of course I could be totally wrong, and probably am!
You're not entirely correct —*there are biased methods that still calculate independently on every pixel — but you've gotten the gist of it.




Well I am speaking commonly here as when Maxwell is referred to as an unbiased rendering engine. Unbiased seems to be different things to different people.
Well yeah, but what Exception said is that unbiased render algorithms tend to introduce noise that eventually clears away, using FPrime and Maxwell as examples. FPrime does some weird stuff so I'm not so sure about how unbiased it really is, but it might very well be.

By the way, what did you render that on? I mean, what hardware. 5 hours for still noisy results...