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Andyjaggy
11-21-2007, 02:06 PM
What is everyones general experience with the UB?

First of all I don't want to start any flame wars here. After working regularly on the windows side of things I decided to try seriously using the UB. I have to say my initial experience has not been great. It seems very very sluggish and generally unresponsive. Even when working with a simple scene it seems I have to wait about 5 seconds every time I click a button. Click on properties. Wait. Click on graph editor. Wait. Things that are instant and snappy on the PC side seem to take forever.

I'm on an intel powermac with 4 gigs or ram. In fact it's the same machine I have been running windows on. So the performance shouldn't be influenced at all by machine specs. So I'm wondering if this is the general state of things at the moment or if there is something wrong with machine?

JeffrySG
11-21-2007, 02:26 PM
Andy, is this on 9.3? If so there is a known bug with the HUB that causes a 'delay/pause' many times. I disabled my hub (renamed it) and don't really have any problems. I love the UB. The only thing that bugs me is the lack of UB plugins at this point but that's up to the developers to address.

Andyjaggy
11-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Just did that actually. Killed the hub and it is running MUCH better now. Still not as snappy as on the windows side of thigns but its at least usable now.

Steamthrower
11-23-2007, 06:15 AM
Overall, it's been a better experience than running 9.3 on Windows. I'm currently running 9.3 UB and 9.3 PPC on a MacBook Pro. I have no issues at all except, periodically, it takes a few seconds to switch between Modeler and Layout (you have to "activate" it by clicking in the viewports; there will be a spinning beachball for a half-second; and then it's smooth sailing).

The Hub works great for me. Which is odd because in Windows it didn't work at all. I'd have to restart Layout to see updated changes.

For some reason my delete key on the Mac is not the delete key. I can't delete keyframes with it nor delete objects/surfaces. I might be missing something major but I had to remap my "delete surface" to another key.

BeeVee
11-23-2007, 06:22 AM
The one on the main keyboard is not a delete key, but a backspace key. The one on the little collection of buttons under the F13, F14 and F15 keys is a delete key.

B

eblu
11-23-2007, 06:42 AM
b,
the customer is always right.

archijam
11-23-2007, 07:08 AM
This thread deserves an emblem. :D

As you were....

BeeVee
11-23-2007, 07:14 AM
Oh yes, I completely agree. And if the user (who is right) uses the delete key all will be well... :D

Chilton
11-23-2007, 08:11 AM
Hi,


For some reason my delete key on the Mac is not the delete key. I can't delete keyframes with it nor delete objects/surfaces. I might be missing something major but I had to remap my "delete surface" to another key.

In the Mac menubar, check the 'Special' menu to the far right. One of them is 'Use Macintosh Keys'. That will remap the backspace to the delete key.

-Chilton

GATOR
11-24-2007, 07:07 AM
Same experience as Neverko. I run an 8-core mac pro. I tried the new upgrade (9.3.1) for a few hours when it first came out. I had my fingers crossed because I really wanted it to work. Lots of crashes, still lots of hang-time. The only improvement was that my work saved in Modeler updated for the first time in Layout automatically.

So I went back to working in 9.2, where I can have the same project up all day without a thought. I have some big projects coming up and I sure would like to be running in UB by January.

Phil
11-24-2007, 11:35 AM
It's been largely stable, but the UI responsiveness (even without the hub) leaves a *lot* to be desired.

I'm still at a loss as to why 'n' in Modeler doesn't focus the numeric panel. There's a lot of flakiness in there.

OpenGL is also very slow - GLSL is unusable and multitexture is not hugely better. Win32 kicks UB LW all over the shop at the moment on my MBP. :/

Andyjaggy
11-24-2007, 05:51 PM
Well it is pretty new. It's not too shabby for a first release.

Jamie K
11-25-2007, 10:10 AM
Didn't see it announced here yet. 9.3.1 is released. Lots of fixes.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Steamthrower
11-27-2007, 11:18 AM
In the Mac menubar, check the 'Special' menu to the far right. One of them is 'Use Macintosh Keys'. That will remap the backspace to the delete key.

-Chilton

Thanks. And give me a kick in the khakis, will you, for utter idiocy? :D

toby
11-27-2007, 02:08 PM
Apparently OGL in Windows uses a direct link to the graphics card or drivers, or something like that? Whereas in OSX it goes through the system first? I read that somewhere but I don't remember the exact details - but it was also considered a less stable method.

Strangely enough, on my G5 2x2ghz (64mb ATI), the 9.3 UB is almost no different from the PPC version in terms of OGL speed, I don't have to wait after clicking anything, maybe there's something going on with Intel compatibility.

Maya is also much faster, so OSX is not entirely to blame, and OSX's anti-aliased text, and lack of the crappy blank and boolean-ed windows easily make up for the lower speed of 3d viewports.

Andyjaggy
11-27-2007, 03:17 PM
and lack of the crappy blank and boolean-ed windows easily make up for the lower speed of 3d viewports.

Yeah that's always bugged me in windows. Apparently the Aero interface in Vista solves that problem.

eblu
11-28-2007, 08:54 AM
Apparently OGL in Windows uses a direct link to the graphics card or drivers, or something like that? Whereas in OSX it goes through the system first? I read that somewhere but I don't remember the exact details - but it was also considered a less stable method.



theres a LOT of not-consistent opinions on How OGL is implemented in OSX vs windows, but I've Never heard this at all.

OpenGl is at a lower Level of osX than it is on Windows, like it is in Unix os-es, but that doesn't, by itself make OpenGL automatically the fastest. it just gets access to the processor w/out having to jump through as many hoops. It looks like the maturity of the Windows OpenGl implementation gives it a slight advantage over the Mac os X one. This gives both a stable target platform (developers love it when you don't change your Libs for a long long time, it means they get to leverage old knowledge), and has given the windows engineers years to tweak the OGL drivers.

Currently, Lightwave is falling behind in display speed compared to every other 3d app on the mac. I'm not saying "bad newtek" or anything. I am saying the state of OpenGl on the mac does not mirror the speed problems Lightwave is having. it ain't OpenGL, and it ain't Mac OS X! There might very well be a confluence of causes, small little gotchas in different parts of the whole widget (LW, OGL, OSX), but we know the other developers have found a way to get past this glass ceiling.

Andyjaggy
11-28-2007, 02:04 PM
Okay so back to my original post. I disabled the hub and am having more luck. However there are still times when clicking on drop down menus won't do anything!

Lightwave is running completely stable and everything is working except for the drop down menus. I mouse over them, they change color, I click. Nothing. Click again. Nothing. Wait ten seconds click again. Nothing. I have to restart Lightwave in order to get them to work again. Strange!?

Chilton
11-28-2007, 03:10 PM
Hi Andy,

If that happens again, try command+tabbing out of LightWave and command+tabbing back in. There's an issue where the OS doesn't realize we're back in the foreground again (for reasons I honestly don't get), and those menus don't appear. They're created, and to the OSX Window Manager they exist, they're just not drawn because the OS thinks we're still in the background.

If that turns out to be the case, let me know. I have a fix in the works for that now.

-Chilton

Andyjaggy
11-28-2007, 03:22 PM
Okay thanks.

I did notice that it is like the menu is there because if I click it and then drag I can select the different options. I just can't see them! I'll try the tab thing next time it happens.

4dartist
11-28-2007, 03:57 PM
About every other render i make the Image viewer top gets put behind the Apple bar up top. So basically i can't move the window because i can't click the top of the image viewer to drag it over. *sigh* BUT then recently i accidentally hit TAB in layout when that was the case and all the menus and graph editor disappeared then, when i hit TAB again I noticed the Image Viewer was no longer hidden behind the apple bar and i could grab the top to move it! Joy! Tab is my new friend in Layout hehe.

Chilton
11-28-2007, 04:19 PM
Hi Ben,

What the heck did you do to make the Image Viewer appear up there. Is this some artifact of rendering giant pictures?

-Chilton

4dartist
11-28-2007, 04:56 PM
It could be because i was spanking LW for no reason the other day... *shrug*

Na, it's been doing it for as long as i can remember. Image size isn't a variable in the problem, it'll do it on 320x240 or 1080HD renders. I've always just had to hit: 'File>Clear All Layers' because i can't hit the Red dot to close the window. (cmd-W may do it too) Then render a new image and then it'll be down where i can grab it. But now with 'TAB' i don't need to re-render just double tap tab and it'll behave! hehe.

It actually just happened as i write this post..

Here's a pretty picture of it.

http://4dartist.com/cgtalk/imageviewer.jpg

enjoy.

PS. sorry not trying to hi-jack the thread!

bethel
11-29-2007, 10:20 AM
How do you disable the hub? Do you just delete the application completely? Thanks!

Scazzino
11-29-2007, 10:23 AM
Hi Ben,

What the heck did you do to make the Image Viewer appear up there. Is this some artifact of rendering giant pictures?

-Chilton

I've had that happen to me too, even on Layout CFM... but I'm not sure what causes it... tabbing out and back to Layout does fix it though...

Scazzino
11-29-2007, 10:24 AM
How do you disable the hub? Do you just delete the application completely? Thanks!

Easiest way on UB is to just rename it. I usually rename it to "HIDE-HUB". Then if you ever want it back, just rename it "HUB"...

bethel
11-29-2007, 11:21 AM
Hi, we are testing Lightwave 9.3 UB on the new MAC Intel for the high school. I am wondering if you can address an inconsistency. When an object opens in Layout, there is an extra gigantic handle on the scene. It does not seem to interfere with the way the program functions, but very distracting, esp. for students new to LW. Will this issue be addressed in an update? The school board is replacing all of the high schools' animation lab equipment and they want to purchase the new Intel Mac, but are holding off because of the handle issue. We desperately need new computers: currently running on G4s and Lightwave 9.2. Thank you.

bethel
11-29-2007, 11:21 AM
Thanks, we'll try that!

Chilton
11-29-2007, 11:33 AM
Hi,

Yes, we will address this issue.

-Chilton

4dartist
11-29-2007, 11:51 AM
Ya i name my hub from HUB to OMGHUBYOUSUCK. And things start to run nice and smooth. ;)

bethel, we run 8core intel macs here at work with LW9.3 UB and are creating work faster than ever before. The rendering is blazing fast and as long as the hub is disabled everything works well and is stable. You see a lot of ragging on LW on the forum because well.. people have a problem and they seek help, what you don't see a lot of is praise for the good things as much. There is a lot more good than bad. LOTS.

PS. I dunno what the requirements are for the handle issue, but we don't have them on our intel-macs. CFM or UB on any of the machines. We have the X1900 video card though.