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cresshead
11-18-2007, 10:14 AM
history or stack for future lightwave?

lightwave is the only application that has no history or stack capability i believe.

xsi: history
maya: history
houdini: network history
cinema4d :tags
3dsmax: modifier stack

i think modo has no history also but it;'s not a full 3d application anyhow.

so..lightwave is the oddball 3d appliction currently...it REALLY needs to move forward and get a history/modifier stack to rub shoulders with maya, xsi and max otherwise it's not taking advantage of what the competition can offer.

the only way forward is to bring modeler and layout and meld them together somehow...maybe like how maya and xsi work with different 'mode' tabs to access a specific u.i. for the tasks needed but everything is in 1 appliction and not based on 2 applictions with at best a tentative link 'the hub'.

so has newtek stated 'anywhere' that they are indeed going down this route for lightwave 9 and lightwave 10?

cresshead
11-18-2007, 10:26 AM
i'll add this this was the number one reason we didn't get lightwave for the place i work at...we went with autodesk vz2008 instead as it's basically a cutdown clone of 3dsmax and with lots of ammends to models lightwave would have been too much re building rather than simple editing to update and change models.

for all stuff like updating a spline shape then just going back up the stack and tuning back on the extude and bevel or re typing or changing fonts to 3d text and it updates..no re build
of polys.

workflow...

parm
11-19-2007, 12:15 AM
Sounds interesting. But what exactly is it? Why do we need it?

Will it streamline our tool set? Or. Make our tools more responsive, with interactive visual feedback for all actions?

Does it make our tasks easier? Or is it a case of more power, at the expense of elegance and simplicity?

I ask this last question, because. For some of the apps you have mentioned. Elegance and simplicity, would be the last words I'd use to describe them with. At least from my encounters with them.

Sil3
11-19-2007, 08:58 AM
One example that I use history often to help me out modeling:

- Correcting Edge Loops

Sometimes kinda gets hard to see where a Loop is going, it might vanish beneath other overlaping geometry etc, or there are so many Edges near that gets confusing to know were to Spin it to get a better flow.

I apply a Smooth to the Mesh so it smooths out everything in extreme high Values, this way I get a clear look of where the Loops are, after fixing the Edge Flow as I need it to be, I simply Delete the Smooth Operation, the Mesh gets back to where it was originally, but keeps the Edge Modifications I just made, the Smooth Operation was only needed to "make thing visually clear".

Now this would be impossible in LW... since theres is no History you cannot stack Operations on top of Operation and then Delete only the ones you dont want.

Exception
11-19-2007, 10:13 AM
It was on the original features list for 9.x, that's all i can say.

ben martin
11-19-2007, 10:43 AM
It was on the original features list for 9.x, that's all i can say.
LOL... like all the others promised feaures... and yet, nothing happens... Progresses? Yup... Rendering engine and texture nodes (something other platforms are using for sometime now).
Oh... boy... I wish I could say Lightwave Rocks, Newtek Rules instead... but unfortunately ... dhooo..................................... :thumbsdow

evenflcw
11-19-2007, 10:47 AM
For some of the apps you have mentioned. Elegance and simplicity, would be the last words I'd use to describe them with. At least from my encounters with them.

Stacks are definitely an elegant concept. And considering how powerful they can be the interface can be remarkably simple.

So. If you want this added power - a non-linear, non-destructive workflow - you'll have to put up with abit more complexity. Whether it will be simple and intuitive to learn and use is all up to NTs designers/developers. Considering LWs history and future I wouldn't mind seeing an interface that can adapt itself to the user. We could have the simplistic (naive?) interface of today but should we want and need to we can go deeper. If people don't want to use new advanced features they shouldn't have them shoved in their face. And should people want to have more control they should get it without hassle.

geothefaust
11-19-2007, 11:34 AM
I'm pretty confident that we'll see a history stack in the next update. I'm only speculating, but I have a good feeling about it. ;)

I'm hoping for instancing as well, but that I'm not sure on.

Andyjaggy
11-19-2007, 11:44 AM
I'd take instancing over a modifier stack. However I wouldn't complain about having both :)

stevecullum
11-19-2007, 12:18 PM
I'm sure a history graph of some kind will make it into Lightwave eventually like all other features we have been promised, but these things take time.

I've used pretty much all the major 3D apps at one time or another and they all have strengths and weakness'. But the one constant thing, is most people here like Lightwave for what it is and despite the moaning, seem to stick with it. I've tried weaning myself off it, with doses of Cinema 4D and XSI and MAX, but I always come back to Lightwave...why? - because its workflow suits I guess.

I'm really pleased at the progress the new dev team is making and I'm confident that Lightwave will soon be catching up with the others, especially since the full-point upgrade features in Autodesk's finest seem rather lacking these days.

That's the good thing about Lightwave right now - we have PLENTY of new features and tools to look forward to :)

geothefaust
11-19-2007, 01:05 PM
Andy, I must agree there, and more while they are at it. :D

Off topic... I checked out your site. Is that a M2A2 or M2A3? It looks more like the A3 to me. Brings back memories of my (albeit short) time in the Army, driving and being in the A2. Great job by the way, it's pretty slick looking. :thumbsup:

Andyjaggy
11-19-2007, 01:27 PM
It's an m2a2. At least that was what the blueprint I had said. It was a while ago though. Almost 2 years now.....

*Pete*
11-19-2007, 01:30 PM
That's the good thing about Lightwave right now - we have PLENTY of new features and tools to look forward to :)

yeah...i cant wait for beta testing sessions to start again, its a great way to learn the program and its tools.

One benefit LW has over many other apps, is actually that it is far behind..NT can now sit back and and actually study what other apps have done correctly, regarding for example CA tools and instancing, and simply pick the solutions that work the best.
It may be piece by piece, and take a long time..but eventually, we will have all those tools, as good as or better, than in other applications.

When i go to the gym, run or bicycle..i dont give my best unless i see someone who is stronger or faster than me, competition kicks in and i accomplish more than without it.
LW is in that situation at the moment...NT is hungrier for gaining reputation than the ones leading the market at the moment.

Andyjaggy
11-19-2007, 02:00 PM
there might be some truth to that but I would still rather have the features now. If everything Newtek does ends up working as well as the nodal editor then I will be happy to wait.

*Pete*
11-19-2007, 02:22 PM
Andy, stop feeding your cat.

I have 3 cats at home (one as avatar), and they all combined are half the weight of yours.

Andyjaggy
11-19-2007, 03:09 PM
:D you must not feed them enough. Poor starving things.

spec24
11-20-2007, 10:52 AM
I'm sure a history graph of some kind will make it into Lightwave eventually like all other features we have been promised, but these things take time.

Man, don't hold your breath.