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NigelH
06-23-2003, 12:52 PM
Don't know what they're demoing (following via IRC), but the G5 vs Xeon in 3D test is double the performance.

denny
06-23-2003, 12:55 PM
Here's someone's highlights. Why won't they tell us what software he reconfigured for 64 bit?

Is this Lightwave or what Luxology has been working?

- Another duel is performed with Luxology's software. [14:43 ET]

-Peebler says he reconfigured their software for 64-bit in 15 minutes. [14:42 ET]

-Jobs introduces Brad Peebler, co-founder of Luxology. [14:41 ET]

policarpo
06-23-2003, 01:49 PM
oh man...the G5's sound like a great platform to create on.

from the video, it sounds like Renderman will finally be ported to OSX....Ed Catmull said pointedly that The G5 is the fastest computer on the face of the earth.

Woo HOO!!!!

quatermain
06-23-2003, 02:05 PM
these are screenshots of the G5 intro video on apple's website that a Brad Peebler interview with Luxology screenshots:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/video/
that icon next to luxology is renderman
today is a good day for all mac users, and mac LW users especially !
woooeeeeeiiii !!

js33
06-23-2003, 02:12 PM
As some of you know I've been down on Apple in a few threads but I can say now it looks like Apple has finally made a decent machine and the prices aren't outrageous like I thought they would be. I want to see some LW benchmarks. I might even have to get one of those Dual 2 Ghz machines. Anyone want to buy an iMac in very good condition? hehehe

I'm still waiting to find out what Luxology's software is?
It looks like some kind of game development software.
Maybe a character animation software for use with LW?

Cheers,
JS

Lightwolf
06-23-2003, 02:19 PM
Well, at least the Frame Rate meter at the bottom looks just like the custom object for LW :)
The Specs sound great, but some of Apple's "Benchmarks" really annoy me (using GCC for the intel SPEC marks, comparing FW800 (Mac) to USB 2.0 (PC) as well a sATA to ATA (Mac vs. PC)). Well, we have till August until we find out how these babies perform in real life.
Cheers,
Mike

js33
06-23-2003, 02:28 PM
Yeah I always take benchmarks with a big grain of salt until I hear the real world performance which is the only thing that matters. A bunch of numbers is meaningless if it doesn't translate to real performance.

The Luxology screen does look very similar to LW's.

Cheers,
JS

policarpo
06-23-2003, 02:28 PM
Well....for Ed Catmull to come on the video and say what he said says a lot of good things for Apple.

I for one plan on switching back to the Mac for my work.

I just wish Eyeon would port DF to OSX!!!!

js33
06-23-2003, 02:30 PM
Hehehe.
Well it's not too surprising considering who his boss is.:D

Cheers,
JS

policarpo
06-23-2003, 02:45 PM
well ya know....the fact that we saw the Renderman icon on the OSX desktop can only be good news.

that means the G5 is finally a PRO machine!

Rey
06-23-2003, 03:11 PM
Well if you watch the delayed webcast of WWDC I believe Brad Peebler is demoing part of Luxology during the G5 presentation. Too much web traffic right now:mad: I'll have to try again later.

Beamtracer
06-23-2003, 03:21 PM
Luxology's Brad Peebler up on stage with Steve Jobs. This is exactly what we have said Newtek should have been doing all these years.

More information is now up on Luxology's website:
http://www.luxology.net/

Some quotes from Luxology:


"Is Luxology going to compete with my current 3D program?

At Luxology our motto is “Play well with others.” The product that we will announce at SIGGRAPH is intended to augment your current animation pipeline. We do not consider ourselves a competitor to complete 3D pipeline products."

"Luxology will support Windows, Macintosh and potentially other operating systems."

There you go. The first information about Luxology's new product. Sounds like it won't be the next Lightwave, but will work with it. Maybe like a Project Messiah on steroids?

Darth Mole
06-23-2003, 03:39 PM
I really hope so: having another new and shiny competitor for LW would Not Be Good.

But to have a nice character animation app that runs alongside Layout and Modeller (press F13, maybe?) - that might be really cool...

DaveW
06-23-2003, 04:01 PM
I don't remember where I read it (maybe ars?) but someone said the Luxology app was for editing motion capture. Maybe they're making a MotionBuilder type app?

KrissCraig
06-23-2003, 04:48 PM
You guys have probably already seen the news item on the Lux site, but here are some details:

Brad Peebler will be demoing new Luxology technology and making announcements at SIGGRAPH, at the kick-off reception hosted by Desktop Images. A full house is expected, so pre-registration is required -- you can read about it on the Lux site and get all the details and register at the Desktop Images reception (http://www.desktopimages.com/ocf.shtml) site.

Beamtracer
06-23-2003, 05:31 PM
It's really exciting and also a bit disappointing.

I was hoping that Luxology would be contracted by Newtek to work on the next version of Lightwave. Todays news shows that this isn't the case, and probably explains why Newtek isn't so keen to discuss what Luxology is doing.

A few months ago there were comments from some current Newtek staffers suggesting that issues between Newtek and Lux had been resolved. What this meant, I don't know. I guess they probably settled issues about employees, contracts and intellectual copyright.

So now we know that Luxology is going it alone with their own 3D app. This is also exciting. It can obviously work with current Lightwave objects, as seen in the demo.

Also exciting is that Luxology's new application already been compiled to work in Apple's 64 bit environment. I thought they said that it is running on a Mac G5 at twice the speed of any Wintel machine. Luxology are committed to supporting both Mac and Windows.

They say on their website that they are not a competitor to other 3D "pipeline" applications. I assume Lightwave, Max and Maya would fit into the "pipeline" category.

I disagree that Luxology is not a competitor. If you can model in Lightwave, then animate in Luxology, then they are a competitor.

If you have a "pipeline" application, but you need some better character tools, then you have the choice of upgrading to the next version of your "pipeline" app to get those tools, or alternatively purchasing Luxology to do your character animation.

Luxology is competing for the same dollars as the "pipeline" applications. Therefore they are very much a competitor.

Because Luxology's product works blazingly fast on the Mac, and "plays nicely" with other 3D applications, I'd say it would be a prime candidate for an Apple takeover. The very mention of which would send shivers down the spines of Windows users.

cresshead
06-23-2003, 05:44 PM
this could be very exciting...or a huge amount of hype...
i think a bit of both...which is good.

i'm really eager to see lightwave 8 now more than ever now that we have a miniscule look at luxology's stuff [well part of it in essence]

most interesting thing?
renderman on a mac!

the mac IS heading to be the 3d platform...so 3dsmax looks out in the cold currently...

steve g

policarpo
06-23-2003, 05:57 PM
well...after using MB for some time now...i can't see how anyone would settle for anything less than 30fps playback speed in one's animation. :)

Playback speed is so important for timing...and 13fps is nada in my opinion. Who cares if that's "twice" as fast...that's super slow...

Regardles...it was good to see what they've been working on all this time. I guess we'll know more come Siggraph.

serpicolugnut
06-23-2003, 07:39 PM
well...after using MB for some time now...i can't see how anyone would settle for anything less than 30fps playback speed in one's animation.

Well, the Windows machine was having trouble maintaining 6.7fps, while the G5 was handling 13.5 fps consistently...

Keep in mind this was also unfinished software....

Beamtracer
06-23-2003, 09:03 PM
Brad Peebler up on stage with Steve Jobs himself. Who would have thought. Some folks new to Lightwave don't know that Brad used to work for Newtek a couple of years ago before he formed Luxology.

I wonder what sort of inside information Brad gets from Apple. Personal contact with Mr Jobs also puts Luxology firmly on Apple's radar. Luxology always said that Apple was one of their partners, as well as Project Messiah Group and others.

Project Messiah started as a character animation plug-in for Lighwave. Then it migrated to a stand alone product that could work with other 3D packages. At that point it became a competitor to Lightwave.

I'm assuming that some of Project Messiah's features (if not the whole thing) is incorporated into Luxology's new application. P.M.G. came out with some great features, but they always seemed to be struggling. A long time between releases. They never did get their Mac version out. I guess this latest news solves that problem. If PMG joined with Luxology (I don't yet know that they did) it would probably make a good combination, as PMG has some innovative features, and Luxology is cashed up.

All in all, by showing a glimse of their product on Steve Jobs' stage, Luxology is just teasing us. I guess we'll know more when they it again at Siggraph (I don't think Lux said they're actually going to release it there). By that time we'll have seen Lightwave 8.

cgolchert
06-23-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer (I don't think Lux said they're actually going to release it there). By that time we'll have seen Lightwave 8.

NewTek didn't say they will be releasing at SIGGRAPH either...just previewing.

Chris S. (Fez)
06-23-2003, 10:10 PM
Forgive me in advance. It's been a bad day.

I can't help but think that it might be Luxology, NOT Lightwave 8, that contains all the cool Character Tools the Lightwave community has been screaming for. When all of the Lightwave programmers, including Arnie, defected to Lux, did they take all their developments with them? What about those "in place" contracts we kept hearing about?

Motionbuilder, Keytrack, Irrational Orthopedics, G2...Luxology might be just another example of a plugin that provides us with performance and functionality that could and should have been offered out of the box or that improves on the crappy tools already in-the-box (like Record Pivot Rotation?! Sorry, I still can't get over why it took a third party to fix that...what the hell are all those little letter updates for anyway if not to fix something as glaringly lame as Lightwave's RPR?).

BTW financial backing from Apple may explain how it was that Luxology seemingly managed to pay its programmers by posting Lightwave presets and news stories.

cgolchert
06-23-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Chris S. (Fez)
BTW financial backing from Apple may explain how it was that Luxology seemingly managed to pay its programmers by posting Lightwave presets and news stories.


I doubt Apple is paying Luxology for anything. In the past NewTek has been to shows and at booths from other companies like AMD, SGI and IBM. Does that mean they were funding NewTek? Brad has always been a big apple fan. THey might have just gotten him to speak becasue he was developing something that runs on a mac and they are showing it off.

Really, saying apple is funding them without proof is like saying NewTek funds every project that uses Lightwave.

archiea
06-23-2003, 11:58 PM
Well, just look at the past.....

We've seen a Toaster centric development, a butchard 7.5 B release, and an unusually early release announcement for LW 8. The latter i believe to stimulate 7.5 sales after the 7.5B debacle. heck you don't even have to be as paranoid as Beam to see that! ;D

Meanwhile, what i've mentioned regarding brad is also true. he's always managed to rub shoulders with the players in tech. I did a double take when i saw him in the apple video, but at the same time, i wasn't surprised.

Perhaps Newtek is just as entrenched, if not moreso. Who knows.. the fact that its unknown, especially if its true, is what I've criticised NT for this past year.

A 64 bit mac and no mention of LW? thats really too bad. NT should be all over it, let alone not having even a demo....

Thats just bad any way you slice it....

Chris S. (Fez)
06-24-2003, 01:24 AM
"Really, saying apple is funding them without proof is like saying NewTek funds every project that uses Lightwave."

I agree. I was just throwing out a conspiracy theory trying to account for Luxology's prolonged lack of a product. Lightwave courseware alone can't pay salaries for all those All-Star programmers.

sailor
06-24-2003, 01:40 AM
Moderator:

well i'm not sure this should be in the Mac forum? after all its about Luxology and believe it should be posted in the LW community forum...or at least a link to it?

thanks

Exper
06-24-2003, 03:38 AM
Another bad day... hoping for the future!

Bye.

trick
06-24-2003, 04:08 AM
Newtek !!! Whatever Lux is doing, just make sure Lw8's new features are more impressive. I've been using Motionbuilder's PLE for some time now and as much as I like it's features, I hate using it outside of LW. I use it to learn different approaches to character animation and then try mimicking them in LW. It's the same with MB, Messiah and maybe Luxology too. I can accept good plugins, but using other programs for basic (that's what I call character animation) 3D operations is too much for me. Chararacter Animation must be a rock solid and integrated component INSIDE your favorite soft. IF I should decide to use MB professionally I'd rather switch to XSI.

I really wonder what professional "TOOL" Lux is developing for ALL other pro 3D softs. I can imagine buying 3rd Party Particle engines, Simulation engines, Rendering engines, Shader Engines, AI engines, whatever...

CHARACTER ANIMATION SHOULD BE LW's TRADEMARK !!!!

Except for general speed improvements, LW can stay as it is. The rest can be 3rd Party !!!

Lightwolf
06-24-2003, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by trick
CHARACTER ANIMATION SHOULD BE LW's TRADEMARK !!!!
Why? may be 10% of my 3D revenue comes from character animation, and LW has many other uses, and currently many other quirks as well.
Cheers,
Mike

trick
06-24-2003, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Lightwolf
Why? may be 10% of my 3D revenue comes from character animation, and LW has many other uses, and currently many other quirks as well...

I come from an architectural background, knowing it will not be too long it's just a matter of pushing buttons to get real nice architectural renders. The art of making the best presentions will be in directing movement of cameras and moving elements, making alternative lighting setups, alternative weather conditions, massive or explicit human animations, and some other. IMHO Character animation is the hardest, certainly if it's an external app, and certainly if modeling in this app.is NOT integrated.

Of course LW needs some work to become the rocksolid and intuitive 3D winner, but overall I like it as it is....EXCEPT for the Character animation stuff !!

I'm doing architectural and accident reconstruction stuff, and both require lots of characters. Not some alien freaky space dudes...but real human figures with realistic motions. So you guess I need as much control as possible and more importantly....INTEGRATED !!!

If you only have 10% character animation work, you may praize yourself a "lucky" person for now. If you're doing web graphics or are part of a large team in which tasks are divided, then you're right. For the rest, if you're a freelancer, I think you must be prepared for char.anim.is going to be the future stuff that will impress your clients the most...

Lightwolf
06-24-2003, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by trick
If you only have 10% character animation work, you may praize yourself a "lucky" person for now.
Well, not really. I want a more optimized renderer, decent spline patches, a more open SDK, decent control flow within layout (expression dependancies come to my mind here), a more flexible UI, shematic shader trees (actually, more shematics all over the place), layered rendering... and this is just off the top of my head.
Many of the would help CA as well, but I'd like a more comprehensive solution. If you focus on CA, get messiah or motionbuilder... ;)
just my 2 cents,
Cheers,
Mike

Beamtracer
06-24-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Lightwolf
If you focus on CA, get messiah or motionbuilder... ;)Should we now add Luxology to that list? :confused:

Lightwolf
06-24-2003, 07:52 AM
Well, it looks like it, allthough I'd be dissapointed if that was all they're doing.
Cheers,
Mike

cresshead
06-24-2003, 08:01 AM
my guess...
luxology are/have made a new "layout"...
with great importers for models/mesh

then you :
rig/animate
shade/surface
render out [maybe with connections to rib/renderman]

steve g

Mike_RB
06-24-2003, 10:14 AM
does that really make sense considering Stuart owns the copyright to modeler?

policarpo
06-24-2003, 10:36 AM
hey...here's an idea.

don't kill yourself speculating and get back to making kick butt work everyone.

Siggraph is a little over a month away...and think of all the great work you could be making in the meantime.

We'll all find out soon enough what is what.

Be sure not to lose any sleep over any of this. It's all hype that can turn weak minds hysterical.

Get back to making great work and leave the speculation to all those who suck and don't have a clue as to what it means to be a living breathing creative individual. :)

Exper
06-24-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Mike_RB
does that really make sense considering Stuart owns the copyright to modeler? Mike_RB... right sentence...
considering both Allen and Stuart are Founders of Luxlology;
Luxology also include Arnie Cachelin, Gregory Duquesne, Eric Soulvie, Mark Brown, Joe Angell.

We must wait for now... we'll soon see at Siggraph. ;)

Bye.

Beamtracer
06-24-2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Mike_RB
does that really make sense considering Stuart owns the copyright to modeler?
When you launch Modeler you see Stuart Ferguson's name on the credits as owning the copyright. Then again, a lot of things have happened in the past year. Newtek and Luxology have done a bit of wheeling and dealing and come to some kind of agreement. It's possible these issues are different now to what they were a year ago.

I like Modeler. I'll happily keep using Modeler for years to come, no matter what other packages come out.

When Project Messiah was released, nobody suggested they would stop using Lighwave as a result. Instead, they used them together. I think the same will apply with Luxology. If you like some of the tools and you have the money you may be tempted to buy Luxology's product. But you'll use it with Lightwave.

So, the preview of Lightwave 8 next month will be a very important event. And if you have lots of money you may also want to fork out and buy Lux's product as well.

In addition to Lux, Pixar's Renderman is coming out for the Mac. So for the companies involved there'll be lots of competition. For Mac users, the new products coming online should not cause worry. Just the opposite. This is like Christmas time!

Meaty
06-24-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
It's really exciting and also a bit disappointing.

I was hoping that Luxology would be contracted by Newtek to work on the next version of Lightwave. Todays news shows that this isn't the case, and probably explains why Newtek isn't so keen to discuss what Luxology is doing.
....

Because Luxology's product works blazingly fast on the Mac, and "plays nicely" with other 3D applications, I'd say it would be a prime candidate for an Apple takeover. The very mention of which would send shivers down the spines of Windows users.

I was hoping for some collaboration also =/

don't hold your breath for that Apple takeover *shiver* ;)

Beamtracer
06-25-2003, 04:15 AM
Anyone who hasn't seen the Apple video can get it at from Apple's website:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/video/

There are 3 screen sizes, the largest is 75MB. MPEG-4 requires Quicktime 6 to see it.

Ade
06-25-2003, 05:08 AM
Apple needs to buyout these key ppl-


SGI for maya
Adobe for photoshop
Quark express
I.D Software - quake engine

Chazz
06-25-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by cresshead
my guess...
luxology are/have made a new "layout"...
with great importers for models/mesh
steve g

That was my impression as well. I think their app is going to be a replacement for Layout. If you remember some time back the statement that Brad Peebler made: Luxology was "developing the next generation of Lightwave." It was quickly refuted by Newtek, but I think his intention was clear from that statement.

I think that it will sport new character animation tools, but I'd imagine, based on their lineup of developers, that it's going to be a lot bigger than just a knockoff of Motion Builder. I guess the real question here is, will they try and market it themselves as a separate app, or will they try and sell it to Newtek?

L6 was supposed to be a complete rewrite that allowed plugin developers to easily add functionality to the core of the app, but the tools seem 'tacked on' in many respects...maybe Luxology is working to correct that.

policarpo
06-25-2003, 09:24 AM
wow...soothsayers.

i think that in the next year cars will be cheaper and food will cost more, gas prices will go up and software prices will go down.

the market for creative design will be at an all time high and we will use computers as wearable devices that are linked to a vast network.

i figured since people were consulting their oracles about what the future would bring to lightwave, i'd offer up some of my irrelevant perspectives.

the future will be defined come siggraph. all else is hogwash.

go and make something beautiful please!

:rolleyes:

sailor
06-25-2003, 09:42 AM
well my bet will be that they will show us a non finished product for the Siggraph....but i guess that they will end up making a new 3 d pipeline even if at the moment they will probably just show an animation environment or something like that...but chances are that later on and maybe after some legal issues are settled they will proceed to plan "b" and make a complete 3d package...maybe they just didnt had the time to finsish it and want anyway to compete with LW 8 this will also explain what is supposed to be a "good will" annoucement several months before 8 release...I can imagine that this is to somehow counterattack the Luxology annoucement...both sides are tryin to make the show and it will be hard time for both parties...

my 2 cents

policarpo
06-25-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by sailor
well my bet will be that they will show us a non finished product for the Siggraph....but i guess that they will end up making a new 3 d pipeline even if at the moment they will probably just show an animation environment or something like that...but chances are that later on and maybe after some legal issues are settled they will proceed to plan "b" and make a complete 3d package...maybe they just didnt had the time to finsish it and want anyway to compete with LW 8 this will also explain what is supposed to be a "good will" annoucement several months before 8 release...I can imagine that this is to somehow counterattack the Luxology annoucement...both sides are tryin to make the show and it will be hard time for both parties...

my 2 cents

wow you know so much. thanks for that insight. now go make something beautiful!

Chazz
06-25-2003, 09:55 AM
Wow...I didn't realize this had become the CGTalk forum...yowza :rolleyes:

policarpo
06-25-2003, 10:08 AM
not at all.

i just think we'd be better off making beautiful work than worrying about what the deal is with Luxology and NewTek.

Sorry for the earlier sarcasm...but the debate is very old and Siggraph is right around the corner and all will be answered.

I guess i'll forget about trying to convince people that it's more important to create compelling work than debating on things which no one really has any information on.

I guess people just like to speak their mind regardless of facts that are or aren't available in the public domain.

Take back your thread and theorize till the cows come home. :)

Lightwolf
06-25-2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
I guess i'll forget about trying to convince people that it's more important to create compelling work than debating on things which no one really has any information on.
Lol, I think you spent more time trying to convince people, than I spent on the debate (let's include the G5 debate as well...).
Policarpo, I think you need to get of vbulletin more often, go and do something beautiful (or ugly if you whish).
Cheers ;)
Mike :p <- can't have too many of these !

policarpo
06-25-2003, 10:15 AM
you are right.:D

ciao! off to make something visually interesting.:cool:

Beamtracer
06-25-2003, 10:26 AM
Speaking of something visually interesting, did you notice Brad Peebler's hair in the Apple video (seen on the previous page). I mean, did he comb it?

It was Brad (Steve Jobs' buddy) who started all this speculation. The fact that he was up on stage with Jobs at one of the most important announcements in Apple's history couldn't pass without some discussion.

I wonder why Lux is not releasing a modeling program. Espcecially since it was Stuart Ferguson who basically developed Lightwave's Modeler. Well, we assume that because he defines his application as not being a full-pipeline 3D app that it means it can't model.

Over a year ago Brad Peebler stated his desire to build a 3D app that could accept files and data from other 3D apps. He mentioned Lightwave and XSI in particular.

It doesn't appear that the Lux 3D app requires any optimization on the Mac, if it already runs more than twice as fast on the Mac as it does on any Wintel box. Maybe it will bring the long-waited features of Messiah to the Mac.

I also wonder what they'll call it. They can't possibly call it Luxology. The trend is for 3D programs to have cool but non-technical sounding names. Lux sounds like a brand of soap.

mbaldwin
06-25-2003, 12:28 PM
lightwolf,

go easy on Policarpo. For what it's worth(?), I like his work and I like his site.

We're all a bit swollen with anticipation. I'm hoping with all that talent at luxology they'll make something very useful.

Same goes for the apple G5. I have my order in--I'm looking forward to seeing its performance first-hand.

cgolchert
06-25-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
wow you know so much. thanks for that insight. now go make something beautiful!


go and make something beautiful please!


i just think we'd be better off making beautiful work than worrying about what the deal is with Luxology and NewTek.

I guess i'll forget about trying to convince people that it's more important to create compelling work than debating on things which no one really has any information on.

I guess people just like to speak their mind regardless of facts that are or aren't available in the public domain.


Why do you feel it is your job to keep telling people to GO create something when you stumble upon a thread you don't want to read. There ARE some people that like interacting with the community. Eveytime a Luxology thread opens here or on CGTalk we see you posting a message to basically amounts to go away , stop contributing to the thread. Even rumors is more than we have. No one jumps into your threads and tells people to forget what they are reading and go away, please let others talk about what they want to. If you don't want to read it stop clicking on these links.

policarpo
06-25-2003, 01:04 PM
:)

i think all LightWolf meant was that i should go an make something disgusting looking...since i often ask if certain renders i do are gross.

that's how i took it. :) but thanks mbaldwin for the props!:D

policarpo
06-25-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by cgolchert
Why do you feel it is your job to keep telling people to GO create something when you stumble upon a thread you don't want to read. There ARE some people that like interacting with the community. Eveytime a Luxology thread opens here or on CGTalk we see you posting a message to basically amounts to go away , stop contributing to the thread. Even rumors is more than we have. No one jumps into your threads and tells people to forget what they are reading and go away, please let others talk about what they want to. If you don't want to read it stop clicking on these links.

sure thing cgolchert, enjoy the speculation...forget i was here on this thread.

but you should really go and make something beautiful and stop wasting time discussing things which will never be understood until the parties resposnsible let the cat out of the bag.

that's my take on all this anyway. just cause i don't say what LUX is doing or not doing or should be doing, it's what I think should be added to the thread. why talk about stuff that won't hold it's weight in the end when we could all just be getting on with our lives and doing good work.

oh well...i guess that's why i never call in to radio talk shows either. i just think we all need to be reminded that pointless speculation is just that. i call it as i see it. if it has a tail and barks, i will wag the dog as much as the next person.

but hey....thanks for calling me on my attitude when it comes to this sort of stuff. you did ask me why i do this right?:p

also, feel free to do this on my threads if you think it will contribute to the discussion.

my point is...don't waste time on these petty discussions...make beautiful work. how is that wrong?:D

cresshead
06-25-2003, 01:11 PM
well..re posting and adding to rumors...it's fine to do so..we [i live in the u.k] live in a free world and can do whatever we want to.either make beutiful stuff or waste our "free time" posting to forums about things we cannot influence...still it's fun to guess about it all..just show that we have a great interest in what's coming out this summer from newtek and luxology

stee g

policarpo
06-25-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by cresshead
well..re posting and adding to rumors...it's fine to do so..we [i live in the u.k] live in a free world and can do whatever we want to.either make beutiful stuff or waste our "free time" posting to forums about things we cannot influence...still it's fun to guess about it all..just show that we have a great interest in what's coming out this summer from newtek and luxology

stee g

in the end we are what we practice and do daily. so speculate away dude. :)

cgolchert
06-25-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
my point is...don't waste time on these petty discussions...make beautiful work. how is that wrong?:D

So then NewTek should really close the forum down. Hey they support section open, but I noticed that most other section are pretty much "petty discussions".. "look at the new g5", "what is wrong with my characters shoulder", "I love this model".....

What you consider petty might be an entertaining distraction while someone else is rendering something. When I hit the forums I usually have a render going.

policarpo
06-25-2003, 01:24 PM
cool for you.

i usually go for a walk when i am rendering.

you know...to feel that thing called sunshine....or at least the fresh evening air.

trust me...it does more for you than "speculation" and heresay ever will....

but i guess some people like to be a part of the chattering in the trees.

i'll let you have your thread back provided you don't ask me another question...about why i do the things i do. :)

cresshead
06-25-2003, 01:24 PM
cheers policarpo, i would of course re frain from making large discussion of lux's product here once it's actually out..it would be the wrong thing to do on a newtek form...

til then...guess away!

...off for a cup of tea!

steve g

Lightwolf
06-26-2003, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by mbaldwin
lightwolf,

go easy on Policarpo. For what it's worth(?), I like his work and I like his site.
Hi mbaldwin,
I think Policarpo understood the jest in my post well. I was just pulling his leg and I did not state that his work is ugly, but that he should rather go and do something, whether beautiful or ugly, creative or not...
Basically I was taking his invitiation for people to be creative one step further :)
And I ain't addin' these ;) <- just because they make the post look nice ;) ;) ;)
Cheers,
Mike :p

Lightwolf
06-26-2003, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
:)

i think all LightWolf meant was that i should go an make something disgusting looking...since i often ask if certain renders i do are gross.

that's how i took it. :) but thanks mbaldwin for the props!:D
Damn, you got me all wrong too :)
You keep telling people to go make something beautiful, which is fine by me and a good thing to do.
However, some people prefer to create something ugly, or un-creative or whatever.
"You just all go back to Lightwave and do whatever you want" might be more appropriate :)
BTW, I do like your work Policarpo, and I wouldn't even term it as ugly or disgusting, so there you go :p
Cheers,
Mike :D

mbaldwin
06-26-2003, 07:57 AM
I'm feelin' the love.

thanks for clarifying.

back to my day job(which is an Alaskan Cannery Whore, for those of you interested).

Lightwolf
06-26-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by mbaldwin
I'm feelin' the love.
*group hug*

thanks for clarifying.
No probs. Some things are just hard to get across if you aren't face 2 face, Normally I ought to add a ;) behind every second word I write to match my facial expression :D
I hope the friendly avatar helps me a bit though...


back to my day job(which is an Alaskan Cannery Whore, for those of you interested).
Smellls fishy to me ;)
Cheers,
Mike

Beamtracer
06-26-2003, 09:12 AM
Any mention of Luxology (the "L" word) makes some people irate. It's not as bad as it was about a year ago on these forums. Some people would try to discuss Luxology while a whole lot of others just spent their time chiming in and saying "shut up", "go back to your work" etc etc.

Some people seem to fear Luxology because there are ex-Newtekers there. If Lux does what they say they will and release some kind of rendering application, they'll not only be competing with Newtek, but also Brazil, Mental Ray, Renderman and others. Judging by Peebler's previous comments I'd say they'll even set up a workflow between the Lux app and Softimage XSI.

Look at Renderman. They might be porting to OS X. They'll be another competitor. Why aren't people trying to shut down conversation about that? Who knows, some Lightwaver's may be tempted to purchase Renderman for their renderings. No, Luxology seems to have a special place in some peoples' heads.

So... Luxology becomes a competitor to Newtek. So what. The market for 3D apps is cut throat, competitive, and already oversaturated with programs. Luxology must have a bit of finance behind them to even try it. They'll be going up against some very big, powerful and established companies.

Will they succeed? Don't know, but even those who don't like any mention of Luxology are probably interested to know what Luxology is doing, and how the story will unfold.

mattclary
06-27-2003, 12:45 PM
My part of the speculation: Whatever Lux is working on won't be a competitor to LightWave, just don't see it. I think it will be something radically new in LightWave and/or something that works with LightWave (and possibly other apps). Be kinda cool if LightWave suddenly had a renderer that could be used with Max, Maya, etc...

Beamtracer
06-27-2003, 10:48 PM
I'm not sure I would really need a rendering app that worked with Maya or 3D max. But for Maya or Max users, they have a lousey renderer so maybe they could use such a thing.

In recent months on Luxology's website there have been articles about production companies that model in another application (in particular Maya) and then render in Lightwave. There has been quite a few comments on this type of workflow.

Added to this are Brad Peebler's comments over a year ago in the CGchannel interview where he said that he thought Lightwave should play nice with other 3D apps. He said Softimage had been approached about this but didn't want to be involved.

Now we have this week's comments about the Luxology app "playing nice" with other 3D apps.

At this week's Apple event we got a glimpse of the Luxology interface. It hints at character animation.

These are the clues.

policarpo
06-28-2003, 12:45 AM
blah blah blah...tis what the fish said to the hook!


i prefer to fish than talk about it!!!

cgolchert
06-28-2003, 12:53 AM
Can't keep from trolling in the luxology threads huh?

maksei
06-28-2003, 02:59 AM
Luxology is a highend all-round 3D-package for modelling, animation and rendering. ;)

Lightwolf
06-28-2003, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
But for Maya or Max users, they have a lousey renderer so maybe they could use such a thing.
This isn't quite true for Maya since the inclusion of mental ray. I have one customer that I consult who switched to LW due to the renderer, and now switched back to the (existing) Maya licences because of mental ray. LWs renderer was the only reason for them to purchase LW, and mental ray is more than just a worthy competitor.
Max is another thing alltogether, even though the renderer did improve in 5.0, rumours say that mental ray will be included in 6.0.
LWs renderer is showing its age (I know, I'm stirring in a hornets nest here...), and I'd love to see major improvements (revamped raytracing with better optimizations, better GI, more shader options, much better multithreading and network rendering, including distributed single frame rendering from within layout, etc....).
Cheers,
Mike

Beamtracer
06-28-2003, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
blah blah blah...tis what the fish said to Policarpo, you should express yourself better and say why Luxology is upsetting you. Every post you make you want people to stop talking.

Why not express yourself a bit more and say "I feel Luxology is a threat because..."

Us mere Lightwave users don't know the product that Luxology is making. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad.

Sure, we're speculating, but that doesn't mean we're going to buy whatever it is that Luxology will release. I also discuss Maya and 3dsMax, but I have absolutely no intention of ever using those apps.

So, let us know why you are so upset with Luxology to the point where you don't want people discussing it here.

Do you think that because there are some ex-Newtekers at Lux they they should be considered traitors or something like that? There are ex-Newtekers at Electric Image as well, but it doesn't seem to conjure such emotions.

Are you afraid that it'll take sales away from Lightwave? So might any other 3D app in the business. It's a competitive market.


Originally posted by maksei
Luxology is a highend all-round 3D-package for modelling, animation and rendering.Maksei, do you know that as a fact, or are you speculating? The note on Luxology's website suggests it's not a "full pipeline" application. I took that to mean no modeling ability. Maybe just some character tools with a renderer. What else could they mean when they say it's not a full-pipeline 3D app?