View Full Version : LW low in Job Stats

07-02-2003, 12:17 AM
Not sure if anyone else checked this out, or how accurately it reflects the job market, but Lightwave seems to rate very low in this survey.


Just to compare other figures if you look at the CG Talk homepage http://www.cgtalk.com/ in the '3D Application Specific Forums' section, the LW forum totally blitzes the others. Currently '67376' Posts in the LW forum copared to '37620' in the Maya forum.

MMmm now I need to string together a theory to determine what all this means :) We have a strong community but not much grunt in the job sector??? Or maya users are so busy with work they haven't got time for idle chatter :)

07-02-2003, 12:50 AM
I'm no expert, but there are a lot of other boards out there that Maya and Max user's post to, you can't really go off the popularity of lightwave on CG talk alone I don't think...

07-02-2003, 01:13 AM
well i dunno what u are comparing actually....the number of LW related posts on CGtalk with the 3d job offers survey on 3d Render ? i suppose that it is pretty clear there is no relation at all between those (because LW seems to be number 1 choice for a lot of hobbysts) ...here in Paris the LW job offers are very limited...around me only some freelancers doin all round 3d stuff uses LW and among them some are Mac users ...i point the fact some are Mac users because as far as i have seen NO ONE uses Macs in the video game studios nor movies/tv Studios (i'm talkin Paris/France) :)...only some printing/advertising and occasional multimedia agencies seems to use it and a Maya used to be far too expensive for they needs/clients (now maybe things have changed)...and actually only once i've been able to use LW in a large production pipeline (movie production)....the rest of the time=Maya (95 percent of the guys coming from cinema schools in France learn here on Maya)

also had the chance to meet some guys workin in the packaging and product design area...there had some Form z on a Mac i think (Form z for sure) now switched to Rhinoceros...

sorry for the long post i wanted to give a large idea of how looked the Parisian 3d market at the mom...of course it is not the result of a survey but i hang around in the studios pretty often so i say what i see at the mom


MMmm now I need to string together a theory to determine what all this means We have a strong community but not much grunt in the job sector??? Or maya users are so busy with work they haven't got time for idle chatter

errrr i know it sounds silly but maybe u are right (reality is usually very simple)....i'm unemployed at the mom (finished 3 weeks ago) and i do have time for chat hahaha hope wont last too much :)

07-02-2003, 01:24 AM
There's no intended relationship between the two. Someone doing a survey would need to look at a broader range of facts and figures from a variety of sources to get a better understanding of the market.

It is interesting though. CG Talk is obviously a popular watering hole for wavers, despite the bad vibes, which mods have been talking about recently.

07-02-2003, 01:57 AM
err well a survey about the number of jobs usin LW should look at ....the number of jobs using LW as simple as that....for that u call the FX houses or u check their licenses or see by urself what are they usin as an everyday tool...no need to know how many posts in a forum i think :)

can u tell me how many Ferrari drivers are out there by the number of Ferrari fans?

dont think so


PS sorry to bring again the car comparison ...!!! :D

07-02-2003, 02:06 AM
Mmm but it's not just FX houses that use Lightwave. In Sydney I recently saw and advertisment for a Lightwave Modeler at Westmead hospital.

07-02-2003, 02:33 AM
well if u saw that then it will be counted in the JOB COUNT but not in the post count :)

i said FX houses just as an example.... :)

and if i were new to 3d i dont think i will base my choice on a very very little market...dont think that ur example illustrates the 3d market in his overall dimension....this is a very particular example...if it was a Maya or XSI job post i will say the same i wont really rely on those posts to have an idea of the job market...and personally i dont know what kind of job as a modeler u will do in a hospital but personally call me ambitious but i always wanted to be a 3d artist because of Movies and Special effects and even so i found as a modeler some task in those productions pretty boring...so if i had to find ANY job just to say i'm workin i think i prefer to do somethin else....not every job in 3d is that sexy for an artist (for example tracking beurkkk)...modeling is not my main goal but tryin to model beautiful things (and be paid for) wich is not the same...:)

07-02-2003, 02:46 AM
I just gave my example to show the diversity of the market. Not focusing on a particlar industry. As you can see from this poll http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72727
it's has a wide and varied user base.

07-02-2003, 03:06 AM
Here's another Poll not as many options http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1237

Elmar Moelzer
07-02-2003, 07:34 AM
Hmm, i think there are quite a few jobs available for LW- users in the US and the UK.
LW is not that popular in Europe because it came here rather late and many were already using 3ds/MAX at the time.

Doug Nicola
07-02-2003, 09:05 AM
"at companies working primarily in feature film and high-end commercial production"

This is the key sentence.

I could be wrong, but even though the larger high-end studios have the visibility, they are probably a small portion of the total production market. There are many medium and small studios out there doing all kinds of work, not to mention freelancers, who would balance out the total figures.

07-02-2003, 09:24 AM
Yeah actually I was thinking that. I work as a freelancer and so therefore wouldn't regsiter in the job count. Also, I could be wrong but I think that site has a Bias towards Maya.

Doug Nicola
07-02-2003, 09:34 AM
I'm not sure about the site as a whole, but from what I've seen about this particular production sector, the stats seem pretty believable.

07-02-2003, 10:53 AM
I assume that the Survey of Advertised Jobs
on 3drender.com is for ads the were placed on that web site

just because there are not a lot of companys looking for lightwave users does not mean that there not using it.

I kinda of look at that survey the other way around to me it says that the lightwave talent that gets hired stays hired and that studios are having a hard time finding and keeping good artist of package x.

it also tells me that companys arent spending money on ads looking for lightwave artist because there are so many of them.
that it is not really needed there are many web sites around and forums that post looking for lightwave users.

but that just my 2 cents

07-02-2003, 11:05 AM
Maya is definitely the #1 choice for apps on a resume world-wide in the motion picture industry, as I think almost every professional visual F/X house incorporates it into their pipeline. I'd say that Max still holds the #1 slot in the video game creation field, however.

LightWave can still be found hidden away all over the place, too. I use LW and Maya both in my studio (my studio changed its focus from the video game industry to the defense department/aerospace industry this year.....). I use LW mostly for modeling, and Maya for animation and visual effects (LW still kicks assss in the modeling categroy -- much better than Maya's tools!).

A good example of a studio that advertises LW in their production pipeline is ESC Entertainment, the creators of "Matrix Reloaded" visual effects. ESC is located in Alameda, CA, and posts job slots for LightWave and Maya animators, as both tools were used throughout the creation process for all visual effects.

I don't put too much stock in polls, as many studios post specific requirements on their own websites and might not participate. I think LW is a good addition to any resume, but adding Maya & Max will definitely increase your marketability. If you're proficient in Maya and have a killer reel, you'll be able to get a job anywhere; not so if you only know LightWave. I'm a firm believer in a multi-app skillset (hey, I had to add Maya to my studio's portfolio for that same reason -- client demand; until last year, I was exclusively LW-based. Not so anymore....).

Elmar Moelzer
07-02-2003, 07:07 PM
You know the demand has come and gone for most apps. Lw has always been pretty stable and in the US most studios know what it is capable of and that it is a solid tool especialy for modeling. I guess you wont have any problems finding a good job in the US if you know LW very well.
Maya is already loosing popularity again IMHO, so is AFAIK ILM about to replace their MAYA seats with XSi...

07-03-2003, 12:18 PM
I guess you wont have any problems finding a good job in the US if you know LW very well.

Which "the US" are you talking about? The thread is about the low LW job rate in the US. Most jobs here are for Maya with some Max and XSI. Mostly Maya.

The job market is so saturated with people that companies don't "train you in their software". For the most part, they are usually tripping over unemployed people that know whatever they use. Job searches right now are turning up an obscene about of jobs that are also only paying 8-12 dollars an hour for CG work. Why? Because SOMEONE will be desperate enogh to take them or they will catch someone just out of art school that needs that first job.

07-07-2003, 03:48 AM
hi guys, check the url out and dont let us LW users down!


07-07-2003, 11:11 AM
The problem with that list is that it was things already done with Lightwave, not upcoming jobs that will be done. I doubt anyone was going to interview for that job on Titanic this week. :)

It was a good list for what it was though. It needs updating. :) Get the newest Unreals in the games area.

07-08-2003, 02:47 AM
LightWave was only used on a small portion of Titanic; the simulation of the sinking, shown to the old woman on the computer right at the beginning, not for any of the main stuff.

07-08-2003, 04:15 AM
Not all studios use commercial apps for the work they do, alot use propriety software meant for a particular task. I am sure a lot of effects and animation studios use Lightwave, Maya and 3DSMax but in the end if they really need to get the perfect look, they will just code the software themselves and update it as time goes on. How do you think Renderman got it's start? Not by accident, and eventually it became the standard for rendering anything in movies. Now anyone can use it - for a few thousand dollors of course.

I remember reading somewhere that Lightwave was used to do some test animation for Jurassic Park before anyone at ILM even touched the movie.

All in all it just depends on the type of work needed, how soon it can be done and price. Plus if it can't be done completely in one app, all you have to do is export it to another.

My two cents.....

Elmar Moelzer
07-08-2003, 04:39 AM
Matt, AFAIK the long flight over the Titanic as well as the final thinking scene (the aft sticking out of the water) were done with LW too (the ship only). At least according to an old NewTekniques, that I have got here somewhere.