PDA

View Full Version : Vue Infinite vs Vue E'spirit



Skinner3D
10-25-2007, 05:17 PM
I was going to post this elsewhere but I saw this group of threads and decided it would be best put here.:D

I am thinking about getting Vue. Could someone please give me a run down on the major differences between Vue E'spirit and Vue Infinite? The website does not do a very good job.

On another note, I tried to download the Vue 6 PLE version, but every single time I did it the zip file was empty

Andrew March
10-26-2007, 12:14 PM
Well, one's more expensive than the other.

They are both as unstable as hell, customer service is non existent and the results are dubious at best!

Andyjaggy
10-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Did you find the little comparison chart on their website?

I'm with Andrew though :) My final conclusion with Vue was that it is awesome for still renders, pretty useless and frusterating if you are planning on doing animation.

kopperdrake
10-28-2007, 03:16 PM
Indeed - if anyone has any input on producing flicker-free animations with Vue without resorting to a massive renderfarm then please share nicely :)

Andyjaggy
10-29-2007, 09:33 AM
It requires a blood sacrifice to the E-on Gods. I sold my soul to discover the secret.

JamesCurtis
10-29-2007, 11:42 AM
And that secret is????

Sorry - just noticed this thread so I thought I'd join in.

Andyjaggy
10-31-2007, 02:21 PM
I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.

GregMalick
10-31-2007, 08:37 PM
Until the camera started shaking idiotically - I thought this was pretty good for a Vue animation. Well... most likely rendered in LightWave.

Movie Link (http://www.asilefx.com/gallery/vxstream_lwint/Valley_HV.mov)

I believe it comes from this Vue xStream tutorial this tutorial (http://www.asilefx.com/product.php?ProductCategoryID=27&ProductID=127) by asileFX.

Skinner3D
11-06-2007, 11:23 AM
Strange question, If I buy one or the other of the Vues, and then import the Vue scene into Lightwave (as opposed to the other way around), is it still unstable?

Or is this just a long and stupid way to do this?
:confused:

kopperdrake
11-06-2007, 08:29 PM
It requires a blood sacrifice to the E-on Gods. I sold my soul to discover the secret.

I'm guessing it's called Render-it and a huge pay cheque ;)

Seriously - I reckon you really need to render on a farm with the settings whacked up, but that's just a hunch

Andyjaggy
11-07-2007, 09:32 AM
Pretty much yeah. You just aren't going to get flicker free renders without massive computing power.

kopperdrake
11-12-2007, 06:01 AM
<sniff>

userBrian
11-22-2007, 11:27 PM
What do you mean flicker in the animation? I made the models in Lightwave and rendered the animations in Vue Esprit pro
and don't have flicker. I edited the whole project together in Flash. I did learn that I was supposed to put each animation in it's own layer in Flash. Since I put them all in one layer I did get one "hickup" but the deadline was up and I had to finish the challenge.
Maybe you didn't correctly apply the textures in Vue. Maybe the texture settings were applied wrong to give you flicker? I don't remember which though- sorry. Was it global texture or something? You can see my animation on my website under "Movies/ Eon trailer". www.brianlinwell.com (http://www.brianlinwell.com)

userBrian
11-22-2007, 11:54 PM
Okay- Now I do see one case of flicker in the hanging buildings inside the asteroid. This was my last shot and I didn't have time to play with how I applied the Vue texture. The building is a bunch of disconnected boxy simple shapes and I just applied one Vue texture to a whole building at once. I was amazed it worked this cool- each shape warped the texture out it's own weird way and I liked the "mess" and sent the challenge in. I think MAYBE the flicker was the result of not applying the texture correctly for each shape but this created instant variety and I had to run.

Andrew March
11-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Brian, sorry to burst your bubble but the whole thing flickers!

userBrian
11-29-2007, 08:50 PM
I just finished a 78 hour animation and the palm tree section flickers. I'm not a professional with this so I don't have as much experience- feel free to point out where I may be totally wrong, no problem. But the section with a rock texture doesn't flicker. The sky and animated clouds don't flicker though I had simply applied an animated water surface for an ocean and found clouds moving way too fast.So does the water. So I suspect the palms might flicker because of how they were textured. The palms are a Vue model. Maybe it's the compression codec. Also a bronze head section didn't flicker.

Andrew- That do you mean by "thing"? Your animation or the way mine on my website looks? Does your animation have a lot of palm trees ? I'll have to experiment with different codecs and plants and trees. But I didn't notice this before. Are you applying the textures to your models yourself? I did not apply the textures to the palm trees. Would be nice if an expert could clarify this.

userBrian
11-29-2007, 09:06 PM
Andyjaggy You said we'd need massive computing power to get rid of the flicker.
Since I won't likely be using that soon I'm interested in what I can do. The Eon challenge animations I made were all rendered in Vue. The models were made in Lightwave.

Andyjaggy
11-30-2007, 10:18 AM
I'm not an expert at Vue. I've been using it for a few months have been growing increasingly frustrated with it.

The usual user pattern goes like this.
-wow this is awesome, look at those trees!
-wow it integrates seamlessly with LW!
-Oh, it's kind of slow to render (understandable)
-Wait a minute, what's up with these buffers?
-wow this crashes a lot
-What the F (Insert variety of Vue bugs)
-It does look good though, I'll try to get it to work
-What the F (Insert a newly discovered Vue bug)
_Hmmm that flicker is really bad
-The flicker is gone now but that was 20 hours a frame....
-What the F (Insert another newly discovered bug)
-I hate this program
-What a waste of money
-What have I gotten myself into
-F you E-on software!

MB will get rid of a lot of flicker but it will drive your render times up.

kopperdrake
11-30-2007, 12:03 PM
Even on broadcast setting (recommended) I still get flicker. Above that and I just start thinking I should invest in HD Instance, in fact if a job in particular comes off next week then I'll have to. It's a shame as I bought Vue xStream for large projects but I can only use it realistically for still shots. I suppose I at least have a use for it but unless they sort out their anti-aliasing issues I'll not be upgrading it. One way to reduce flickering is to render double size then reduce, but then you *really* need to have some CPU power.

Almost forgot - Vue 6 xStream was supposed to be the version that solved the flickering in Vue 5...

Andyjaggy
11-30-2007, 12:23 PM
Yes the infamous "anti-flickering" technology that they brag about.

lwaddict
07-07-2008, 01:26 PM
Andy...I've been working with Vue...or trying to...since 5 was given to us for free here...and that was the best description of the whole love affair sequence with Vue that I've ever read.

Seriously.

You can always tell when someone's just opened the box, huh?

Brain, the flickering that you'll hear the veterans complaining about is seen on the border of trees and sky, tight textures, water, blowing leaves, and more. In your animation I saw over a dozen examples...you'd really see them if you burned that to DVD and played on a large tv, oh man, those things just don't lie to the eye anymore.

Andyjaggy
07-10-2008, 09:26 AM
Yeah. What you have to understand with Vue though is that you are going to get long render times. Look at what it is rendering, and then tell me that 3 hours a frame is unreasonable.

I can deal with the render times, but they really need to fix the problems that actally make it unusable.

lwaddict
07-10-2008, 10:18 AM
I haven't seen too many people complaining about the render times...

mostly wanting to 'see' the econsystems as something onscreen for better animation, like moving around them effectively...
or making it stop crashing...
or at least quit with the beautiful still renders on their site and show more and more and more animated examples.

The guy who put out their examples must've been able to train fish with that patience.

Still...for matte painting and pulling items from to use in Lightwave without accessing the "Xstream" toolset...it's got it's uses.

Just not 1000 dollars worth so far.

Andyjaggy
07-10-2008, 11:30 AM
Yeah awesome for matte paintings, really really awesome realistic vegetation.

The three killers for me are.
1)crap buffers, it's so hard to get reliable consistant good quality passes and buffers.
2)crashing, nuf said.
3)network rendering issues, renering times aside, I've had a hell of a time just getting stuff rendered.

lwaddict
07-10-2008, 03:09 PM
Yeah...it's by no means a professional app just yet.

Just looks like one.

Trick I've used is placing a solid green plane in there at a distance and rendering...then moving it further back...rendering...again...again...

but that's not what they promised at all now is it? LOL.

Just make sure you don't use it in a time based production workflow yet and you'll only be slightly angry...instead of cold and bitter. :twak:

Andyjaggy
07-10-2008, 03:57 PM
well not just that.

Have you ever been able to get a good shadow buffer, I haven't. What about a good Zdepth, for so me reason it does some funky thing with the y values as well as the z. Half the passes I render are filled with bibbly meaningless colored dots, lines, half rendered frames, etc...........

Andyjaggy
07-10-2008, 04:00 PM
It's always nice to hear that others have as many issues as me. For a while there I thought it was just me having issues and then I realized that the people who kept telling me it was the greatest piece of software ever written were all hobbyist fanboys.

It has it's uses sure, like I said before it is possible to get some great looking vegetation and environments from it, however if you think you are going to plop trees and grass into your lightwave scene and render away a flyaround then you will probably be sorely dissapointed.

I eventually got one to work, but it was ridiculous how many issues I had to deal with.

GregMalick
07-10-2008, 05:36 PM
So it's settled.. a great tool for matte paintings (especially considering doing one in PS by hand).

Got mine free with a LW upgrade and later upgraded so I could paint vegetation. I'd say it's worth it. Glad I didn't opt to pay extra for the LW integration version.

lwaddict
07-10-2008, 09:44 PM
You got it.

There are a million workarounds but who wants to spend that kind of money only to need to learn all that as well as what's in the manual??? ARGH.

It'd be different if we were talking millions of techniques...but it's just getting it to work...I DO have to agree that WHEN it works, it's magical.

buffers? Ha. But if you've got the chosen video card, I've heard of people getting good buffers in Ultra mode.

Note...a good SLR and a drive in the country can yield natural results if you're going to do what ILM does and pin it on some planes anyways. Photoshop CS3's latest selection tools make pulling the sky and more out of the shot for solid alphas a breeze compared to the last few years.

Vue Xstream vs. Canon 40D...uh...gimme the 40D

lwaddict
07-10-2008, 09:45 PM
Version 5...the free one...is fairly stable but you've gotta work around the flickering...and since it was free...

starbase1
07-18-2008, 04:50 AM
Indeed - if anyone has any input on producing flicker-free animations with Vue without resorting to a massive renderfarm then please share nicely :)

God knows I have enough problems with Vue, but this is not one of them. If you put a lot of high contrast fine detail a long way from the camera it will flicker. In any prog.

Vues ecosystems actively enourage this, but if you avoid (for example) strongly patterned high contrast leaves on distant trees, it's OK.

hydro
07-29-2008, 12:00 PM
All its good for is making beautiful stills for contests. Absolutely useless for animation as the textures crawl regardless of render time. The only thing I liked about Vue was that I got it free with a LW bundel. :devil:

hydro
07-29-2008, 12:19 PM
Brian, sorry to burst your bubble but the whole thing flickers!

Amen to that brother!

Tusnelda
07-31-2008, 01:06 AM
I'm guessing it's called Render-it and a huge pay cheque ;)

Seriously - I reckon you really need to render on a farm with the settings whacked up, but that's just a hunch

you guys should check your equipment. with all those quad procs around the term "renderfarm" becomes relative.
... and by the way, who on Earth is offering professional 3D without a setup of multiple pro-computers? I am not talking about rooms full of power-consuming 1HE units to render some 6k footage, but quite the "regular" stuff you guys are working on on a daily basis, I presume.

the settings for VUE are as sensitive as in various other programs.
these are all tools .... the skills are up to you ... and having said that: it's possible with VUE.

Andrew March
07-31-2008, 02:37 PM
the settings for VUE are as sensitive as in various other programs.
these are all tools .... the skills are up to you ... and having said that: it's possible with VUE.

Uh, no, not really, in fact.......No.

Andyjaggy
08-01-2008, 05:12 PM
I can always tell the people that are hobbiest users of Vue and those that have actually tried to use it on a real world project.

All the skill in the world won't do you one bit of good if in the end you can't get the program to render your file.

We've finally given up on hypervue and are trying using renderbulls and alfred render manager. It looks promising and I am feeling more hopeful about this program then I have in some time now.

starbase1
08-02-2008, 03:29 AM
Well, for those of us in the thread who are trying to be constructive...

Here's a tutorial I read some time back (about time I did it again!) that leads you through the different Vue render settings and offers guidance on which ones make for the best balance between render time and image quality.

http://users.tns.net/~mwalter1/Vue_Render_Settings.pdf

Nick

Andyjaggy
08-06-2008, 10:47 AM
Read that, and it was helpful. Honestly the render times and flickering aren't that big of an issue, yeah they are high and if you only have one machine to render on you are just out of luck.

So that leaves you to conclude that you need to render on multiple machines, okay no problem, open up hypervue and off you go right? :) haha. That's where a lot of the issues I've had with the program come into play. Like I said above none of this matters if in the end you can't get it to render your stuff. So be warned those of you thinking of using hypervue.

So we finally just bought some renderbulls so we could use our own render manager, and low and behold it works like a charm. Renders great, not crashes or failed frames at all. Of coarse E-on charges you 100 dollars for each renderbull, but no surprise there, be prepared to be raped with E-ons licensing system. Anyway just thought it might be helpful to someone out there to know that the renderbull option works pretty well.

Oh and this is all just with infinate, Xstream is a whole different ball game and opens up a whole nother can of worms. It's pretty much useless in my opinion. But yeah.