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Markc
10-17-2007, 05:27 PM
Will Lightwave 9.3(ppc) run on OSX10.5 Leopard without any trouble?

Skritter
10-18-2007, 08:44 AM
Ask after the 26th of October when people have Leopard in their hands and you might get an answer based on experience.

MysteryMonkey
10-18-2007, 09:14 AM
Ask after the 26th of October when people have Leopard in their hands and you might get an answer based on experience.

I would assume that at least the Newtek Team has been doing some testing of LightWave 9.3 runnning on Leopard by now. Could anyone from Newtek give us a clue as to the answer?

Scazzino
10-18-2007, 09:21 AM
Based on how LW worked with past Mac OS updates, I don't think there will be any problems. Just speculation of course, but I didn't run into any major LW issues going from 9.2->9.3->9.4 so I doubt 9.5 would be any different.

We'll all know in a few days anyway... ;)

Chilton
10-18-2007, 09:53 AM
Hi,


... I didn't run into any major LW issues going from 9.2->9.3->9.4 so I doubt 9.5 would be any different.

Either Mike meant 10.3->10.4 etc., or he now realizes we built all 9.x versions of LightWave back in January, and ship them out sporadically over the course of this year.

-Chilton

Scazzino
10-18-2007, 10:53 AM
Hi,



Either Mike meant 10.3->10.4 etc., or he now realizes we built all 9.x versions of LightWave back in January, and ship them out sporadically over the course of this year.

-Chilton

Wow, talk about a brain burp... I had to reread what I wrote a few times before I realized that I used "9" instead of "10"... If not for the 5 minute edit limit I'd correct it...

Yes, Thanks Chilton, I meant Mac OS X v. 10.2 -> 10.3 -> 10.4... Jaguar, Panther & Tiger... :thumbsup:

I was thinking about LW9 so much, it clouded my thinking... ;)

Scazzino
10-18-2007, 11:00 AM
... or he now realizes we built all 9.x versions of LightWave back in January, and ship them out sporadically over the course of this year.

Actually don't you guys already have cool new LW versions built all the way up to LW15 and just have to decide when to dole them out over the next few years?

:D

Tony3d
10-18-2007, 05:40 PM
So will Lightwave run in Leopard or not?

___mats___
10-19-2007, 10:58 AM
yes, I would like to know

I assume NT had the Leopard dev builds for a long time now.

Yes or No?

Scazzino
10-19-2007, 11:07 AM
I don't think you'll hear anything until Leopard ships... everything's still under NDA as far as I can tell... But based on past Mac OS X updates, I don't expect any major problems with the Leopard update and LightWave...

We'll all know for sure soon enough though... :thumbsup:

7 days, 4 Hours, 50 Minutes and counting... ;)

Tony3d
10-23-2007, 05:19 AM
Why is Newtek being so tight lipped about Leopard? I really want to know now before I buy Leopard if Lightwave runs ok. I don't want to spend $129 95, just to find out I have to wait 6 weeks for a fix. Newtek must have had Leopard builds for many months already. So, does or does not run?

Chilton
10-23-2007, 06:09 AM
Hi Tony,

It's pretty simple--Apple has a pretty strict Non Disclosure Agreement regarding Leopard. Every Mac developer with a 'Select' ADC membership and up has had Leopard for over a year.

However, even posting things like 'sure, it runs' or 'no, it doesn't run' technically violates that NDA. Violate the NDA once, and you can lose your membership.

That would suck.

FWIW, I personally wouldn't divulge info about Leopard until it ships, even if I didn't work at NewTek.

-Chilton

Largemedium
10-23-2007, 10:13 AM
Hi Tony,

It's pretty simple--Apple has a pretty strict Non Disclosure Agreement regarding Leopard. Every Mac developer with a 'Select' ADC membership and up has had Leopard for over a year.

However, even posting things like 'sure, it runs' or 'no, it doesn't run' technically violates that NDA. Violate the NDA once, and you can lose your membership.

That would suck.

FWIW, I personally wouldn't divulge info about Leopard until it ships, even if I didn't work at NewTek.

-Chilton

If officially comes out on Friday and they are accepting orders. Isn't that technically the same thing as being released? Do you really have to wait for it to be in peoples hands before you can let them know whether it's compatible or not? Other than NDA, which should be protected during development and testing, why all the secrecy when the software has been made official? I see no benefit to withhold information about a released product unless there is a problem with the software and you are scrambling to find a fix.

archijam
10-23-2007, 10:18 AM
I would read Apple's NDA before busting Chilton's balls .. and who knows, by the time you're done, it may already be Friday :)

j.

Chilton
10-23-2007, 10:34 AM
Don't bother reading it, I can give you the short version, from Scott Anguish at Apple, on one of their developer mailing lists:

"I wanted to post a quick reminder with respect to the discussion of Leopard and Leopard APIs.

While a release date has been announced and it's only a week away, the Leopard API is still under non-disclosure. That means it can't be discussed here. I want to thank the list members for their continued assistance in this regard (and that it has been such a rare issue in the last 2 years). I'll post a message when it is OK to discuss Leopard on the list."

-Chilton

Largemedium
10-23-2007, 03:59 PM
I wasn't trying to bust Chilton's chops. I just think it's ridiculous for Apple to keep the wraps on the project when it's out of of beta. If anything, I would assume they would want folks talking about it to feed the hype machine. Oh well, guess well have to wait a few more days and trust that Newtek has everything well in hand.

Lightwolf
10-23-2007, 04:19 PM
If anything, I would assume they would want folks talking about it to feed the hype machine.
Don't they? Isn't it working well already? ;) - SNCR :p

Cheers,
Mike

juanjgon
10-26-2007, 03:42 AM
Today is 26 :) :) :) ... who is going the first to test LW over Leopard? ... specially OpenGL performance could be interesting. And of course, any news about the posibility of LW running in 64bits mode over Leopard are welcome :thumbsup:

3dworks
10-26-2007, 06:16 AM
Today is 26 :) :) :) ... who is going the first to test LW over Leopard? ... specially OpenGL performance could be interesting. And of course, any news about the posibility of LW running in 64bits mode over Leopard are welcome :thumbsup:

see here: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=610404#post610404

:( for now...

markus

MysteryMonkey
10-26-2007, 06:28 AM
see here: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=610404#post610404

:( for now...

markus


Markus, I don't seem to have the proper permission to access that link material. Could you give me (us) a quick summary of what is says. . . . Thanks

3dworks
10-26-2007, 06:34 AM
Markus, I don't seem to have the proper permission to access that link material. Could you give me (us) a quick summary of what is says. . . . Thanks

ah yes, sorry for not telling it's a beta forum link, but i don't think i can't tell anything here as it refers to the beta version... i have still to test how it is working with 9.3 UB/CFM release and will post some impressions later here, ok?

in any case, it seems that some more optimizations are needed for now... as far as i can tell so far, leopards opengl on other apps is quite fast ;)

markus

Chilton
10-26-2007, 07:13 AM
The short version is that there's an OpenGL issue we were not aware of (looks like a GLSL shader issue), and there's a CFM/Leopard issue we are aware of that no one else has run into yet.

-Chilton

Tony3d
10-26-2007, 07:24 AM
What is the CFM issue, and does it effect 9.2?

Chilton
10-26-2007, 07:40 AM
I suspect it does affect 9.2. The controls don't have text on them, in Modeler. And we are working on a fix for that, but it will be in Open Beta before it's released. So I encourage everyone who is still using the CFM version to join the Open Beta program if you're also using Leopard.

-Chilton

MysteryMonkey
10-26-2007, 07:50 AM
The short version is that there's an OpenGL issue we were not aware of (looks like a GLSL shader issue), and there's a CFM/Leopard issue we are aware of that no one else has run into yet. . . Chilton

Chilton, . . . Since I couldn't begin to know if its Newtek or Apple that will fix those problems, can we assume when those kinks have been worked out that we will be informed they have been corrected and what update to the fixes we should apply? . . . Personally I think I'll wait for a bit before moving to Leopard.

Tony3d
10-26-2007, 08:04 AM
Yes, I'll steer clear of Leopard for now. My 9.2 is running to well to upset the Apple cart. Hope this fix comes soon.

Chilton
10-26-2007, 09:42 AM
Hi,


Chilton, . . . Since I couldn't begin to know if its Newtek or Apple that will fix those problems, can we assume when those kinks have been worked out that we will be informed they have been corrected and what update to the fixes we should apply? . . . Personally I think I'll wait for a bit before moving to Leopard.

I would say that's a reasonable assumption. But Leopard is definitely a nice upgrade.

-Chilton

MysteryMonkey
10-26-2007, 11:45 AM
Hi, I would say that's a reasonable assumption. But Leopard is definitely a nice upgrade. - Chilton

Well for right at the moment I can do that, but since we are talking about getting some new iMacs in the next few months we will be forced to having Leopard as it will come pre-installed as the system OS. Hopefully by then these problems will be fixed?

M.Monkey

4dartist
10-26-2007, 02:25 PM
I figure this has been asked and probably addressed but i'm lazy and we just got our copy of leopard in the office, (although i'm waiting until after a few projects to install it)...

Can someone explain to me the 32-bit 64-bit ram limitations on LW using LW 9.3 UB and intel-mac with Leopard? Is LW still going to run out of ram when rendering large images or rendering normal size images but lots of large textures? I've heard a lot about the cap on 32bit software something around a few gigs of memory, but i also heard 64 bit apps loose that roof, and was wondering if that would happen when we finally upgrade.

Thanks for any clarification. Sorry if this has been asked before. ;)

3dworks
10-27-2007, 05:02 AM
I figure this has been asked and probably addressed but i'm lazy and we just got our copy of leopard in the office, (although i'm waiting until after a few projects to install it)...

Can someone explain to me the 32-bit 64-bit ram limitations on LW using LW 9.3 UB and intel-mac with Leopard? Is LW still going to run out of ram when rendering large images or rendering normal size images but lots of large textures? I've heard a lot about the cap on 32bit software something around a few gigs of memory, but i also heard 64 bit apps loose that roof, and was wondering if that would happen when we finally upgrade.

Thanks for any clarification. Sorry if this has been asked before. ;)

any plans here, chilton? is LW UB still carbon based?

markus

Chilton
10-27-2007, 10:13 AM
Hi Markus,


any plans here, chilton?
Plans? Yes.
Share? No.


is LW UB still carbon based?
Yes. Well, parts of LightWave 9.3 UB are Cocoa. But it's still *based* in Carbon.

-Chilton

kfinla
10-27-2007, 12:30 PM
:devil: Sounds like a 64 bit version of OSX LW is still at least 6 months away. Carbon was the wrong pony, but to newtek's defense 10.5 suuport of 64 bit carbon was cut mid development after it had been announced at one point.

I'll be interested to see who's apps make it to 64 bit first, it seems most developers took the carbon route when possible.

4dartist
10-27-2007, 01:45 PM
Hey Chilton thanks for the reply. There are just a couple things I am really hoping for with future releases of the LW(mac); Stability with the UB software between Hub, Layout, Modeler/interface stability and 64-bit LW for Mac to reduce RAM limitations. There are some smaller things like hypervoxel shading improvements or fluid dyn, but they tailor to me because i use them every single day. But the first too, are of big concerns to us here at JF&A and I couldn't impress how helpful to our production it would be to re-activate hub or to be able to render our scenes without having to chop them into 5 separate renders because we get out of Memory issues constantly. (granted, it takes some restraint on our part to keep image size for textures down and to manage our poly counts in models.) We do our best.

I'm still really excited about LW and the recent improvements on the performance side and UB development. So keep it up! Can't wait for 64bit!

Chilton
10-27-2007, 05:07 PM
Hi,


:devil: Sounds like a 64 bit version of OSX LW is still at least 6 months away. Carbon was the wrong pony, but to newtek's defense 10.5 suuport of 64 bit carbon was cut mid development after it had been announced at one point.

I'll be interested to see who's apps make it to 64 bit first, it seems most developers took the carbon route when possible.

The trick with Carbon vs. Cocoa is that Carbon more closely resembles the way code works on other platforms. So most cross-platform apps are based on Carbon for that reason. It's just easier to combine Carbon and C or C++ while sharing source on an app that is cross-platform. I've worked on several large cross-platform apps, and that's just how it is. It has nothing to do with people being holdouts, old-tymers, or any other ego-based decision making. You just don't see many large cross-platform apps written in Cocoa, for reasons from the different paradigms involved, to the differences in code stylings.

Carbon 64-bit was cut at WWDC this year. Up until that point, no one had any indication it was on its way out. There were clues, like the fact that anything dealing with text would have to be based on CoreText (which had no Carbon interface) in order to be 64-bit compatible. But the general assumption was that the holes would be patched, not the entire API yanked.

It was a surprise. But that's life.

"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"

-Chilton

avkills
10-28-2007, 07:59 AM
Hey Chilton have you noticed any glitches (display) on G5 machines. This is not LW related (I am happy to report LW seems to run fine for me under Leopard, although I have done no heavy testing). Just wondered if you have seen this:

Whenever I remove something from the dock, mostly windows that have been minimized, as soon as the window reaches full size; the window focus changes and the dock disappears and then re-appears. It is the oddest thing. I am running an X800XT (256MB) on a PCI-X G5 machine.

Everything else seems fine except my menu bar has never ever been transparent either.

-mark

jeffreywpearson
10-30-2007, 04:33 PM
Just a fyi. I ended up taking the plunge today and upgraded my MBP to Leopard. Keeping in mind that since I am at work, I could not spend any more time than opening up modeler/layout and doing a poke around. But all seems to be good ( I am using the UB version of LW). Perhaps the issues are video card/chipset specific? For reference and possible help to NT support in fixing the issues, here are my machines info:

Model Name: MacBook Pro 17"
Model Identifier: MacBookPro1,2
Processor Name: Intel Core Duo
Processor Speed: 2.16 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 2 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 667 MHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP12.0061.B03
SMC Version: 1.5f10


ATI Radeon X1600:

Chipset Model: ATY,RadeonX1600
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 256 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x71c5
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxxx-086
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.086
Displays:
Color LCD:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Built-In: Yes
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported





Jeff Pearson

MacDoggie
11-06-2007, 06:07 AM
Hey Chilton thanks for the reply. There are just a couple things I am really hoping for with future releases of the LW(mac); Stability with the UB software between Hub, Layout, Modeler/interface stability and 64-bit LW for Mac to reduce RAM limitations. There are some smaller things like hypervoxel shading improvements or fluid dyn, but they tailor to me because i use them every single day. But the first too, are of big concerns to us here at JF&A and I couldn't impress how helpful to our production it would be to re-activate hub or to be able to render our scenes without having to chop them into 5 separate renders because we get out of Memory issues constantly. (granted, it takes some restraint on our part to keep image size for textures down and to manage our poly counts in models.) We do our best.

Good Day Chilton!, Good Day Ben!

After recently switching to the UB builds (I have been using the CSM builds on my G5 under Tiger) I must say I have been really impressed with the UB versions of LW, especially the rendering!:bowdown: :bowdown:

However, the hub's performance is severely lacking. It's almost as if some one tied a boat anchor to your ankle before you ran a 100 meter race (please forgive my overly dramatic analogy here) But coming from an environment where I generally don't use the hub it is not too bad of a loss. That and the fact that I most likely need some more ram. At present I am running the USB builds on my Intel Mac PowerBook Pro with 2 gigs. I started using it to transfer and work at the Job site. Since it was an intel based machine I decided to give the USB build a go and I have to admit it was very impressive. So impressive in fact that I prefer it over the tower that was assigned to me at the job site!

IMHO the USB builds are going to be really nice once the issues of third party support are resolved. 64 bit builds are even going to be more impressive once Leopard gets fully underway. Hopefully, by the time I order my Quad core in January....:beerchug: :jam: :beerchug:


I'm still really excited about LW and the recent improvements on the performance side and UB development. So keep it up! Can't wait for 64bit!

Ditto!!:thumbsup:

Well, gotta go, Good chatting with you Chilton, Ben, see you at work! (Hope you're diggin' that new Powerbook Pro mate!)

Cheers

Psyhke
12-04-2007, 12:55 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm trying to figure out the current status on LW Mac compatibility, and found this thread as I want to run LW9 on Leopard on an Intel Mac. I looked around on the product pages for a good while and also searched in the forums and can't find the definitive answer.

Does it work on Leopard? If so, is it reasonably stable? Thanks!

Chilton
12-04-2007, 03:24 PM
Hi,

There are no Leopard specific Mac problems in the UB. We've had a few reports of this or that problem in the UB, but nothing that has actually turned out to be Leopard specific.

-Chilton

Psyhke
12-04-2007, 03:28 PM
Hi,

There are no Leopard specific Mac problems in the UB. We've had a few reports of this or that problem in the UB, but nothing that has actually turned out to be Leopard specific.

-Chilton

Great, thanks! Is the UB part of the open Beta only, or will I be able to get it straight away if ordered now?

Chilton
12-04-2007, 04:16 PM
It's available to everyone. 9.3 was the first public release of the Universal Binary.

-Chilton

chernobylpug
12-04-2007, 10:32 PM
So will Lightwave run in Leopard or not?

I have Leopard and LW 9.3 has all kinds of problems. Like the handle bars for layout don't appear (except Rotate occasionally but it isn't x-rayed and large objects cover it up). Saving in Modeler has been tricky. Sometimes it works sometimes I lose hours of work. And there are a lot more rendered artifacts than usual. I'm waiting till these issues are addressed. I would definitely wait.

Chilton
12-04-2007, 10:53 PM
Hi chernobylpug,

For some reason I thought you were using LightWave version 8. If this is the UB, please send me a screenshot of what you're running into. Additionally, any crash logs you get from Modeler would be appreciated.

[email protected]
[email protected]

Thank you!
-Chilton

Psyhke
12-05-2007, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the info, Chilton.

---

I'll give it a go, taking into account the words of caution. I'm on LW8 on a PC now and can always use that as needed.