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archijam
10-16-2007, 01:36 AM
Every now and then, through these forums we get a fleeting glimpse of what is possible with LW in production, especially in Japan.

Where do all of these amazing examples of Japanese work disappear to? Why do none appear in the LW website, promotion material or interviews? Japan is almost half of the community (AFAIK), but it seems we only get the briefest look info what they are doing, and even then usually only through the plugin writers.

Perhaps even Newtek could post work of non-english speaking wavers (spain, italy, portugese etc. also) in the gallery here, if it is simply for language reasons that no work comes to the surface. (unfortunately my australian 'highschool level' japanese is useless) ;)

j.

BeeVee
10-16-2007, 02:16 AM
k'nichi wa cobber. Bocua Bruce desu... Pub ni ikimashoka? ;)

B

wavk
10-16-2007, 03:03 AM
que?



mlon

archijam
10-16-2007, 04:06 AM
I'll take that as a ... maybe later?

Watashi wa America no Kaigun no suihei desu.

j.

BazC
10-16-2007, 04:47 AM
k'nichi wa cobber. Bocua Bruce desu... Pub ni ikimashoka? ;)

B

You didn't study Japanese at the University of Wallabaloo by any chance?

paulrus
10-16-2007, 05:33 AM
Hey BeeVee - look in my sig for the link to my wife's podcast. I speak decent conversational Japanese and I had no idea that's what you were attempting to write until I saw BazC's post! :)

BeeVee
10-16-2007, 06:55 AM
:D I was going for "australian 'highschool level' japanese" as Archijam stated... It's tricky stuff writing Romaji with a Strine accent and I wanted the inflection to go up at the end, you know? As though everything is a question? It's called "Neighbours English"?

B

pumeco
10-16-2007, 07:16 AM
Of course we could all learn Japanese - that would do the trick :)

Only other option is to find a willing multilingual 'lookout' to keep us posted on this mystery stuff, and to link and translate it for us. Don't look at me though because while I'm fascinated by their strange and wonderful character set - I can't understand a bloody word of it.

Yeah, and I watch Takeshi's Castle as well :D

BeeVee
10-16-2007, 07:41 AM
I'd love to do some, but my mastery of the Japanese language is extremely far from up to it, and the number of Japanese artists that speak English is low too... Shikata ga nai...

B

vadermanchild
10-16-2007, 07:43 AM
LW does NOT need promoting.

Please understand this.

LW sells itself...apparantly...or at least Newtek think so.

So sad.

archijam
10-16-2007, 08:17 AM
Ben, you are playing about with the psyche of a whole nation (continent), did you know that?

Jeez Louise.

j.

BeeVee
10-16-2007, 08:27 AM
Hmm, won't be satisfied until the very world is my plaything!

B

cresshead
10-16-2007, 08:39 AM
yeah there's some great anime this i ''think'' could be lightwave...just watching ''planetes'' currently..that has some 3d cel shade scenes...

i REALLY wish newtek 'pushed' the celshaded content made for anime as the celshader's for lw are pretty darn good.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL6tTbNdkgo

pumeco
10-16-2007, 12:24 PM
yeah there's some great anime this i ''think'' could be lightwave...just watching ''planetes'' currently..that has some 3d cel shade scenes...

i REALLY wish newtek 'pushed' the celshaded content made for anime as the celshader's for lw are pretty darn good.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL6tTbNdkgo
You mean there are actually anime movies and stuff that were created in LightWave and we're not even aware of them?

I dunno, NewTek - that's pretty sick really. If anyone knows the names of these, be sure to post them here, and I for one will certainly be checking them out.

I know that LightWave is used for these things, but I'm not sure which ones it was used for. I've still got a VHS video that NewTek sent me many MANY years back (I couldn't afford it back then, but I just wanted a free video - and to see what was the buzz about LightWave). I've got no player to play it now, but there was this guy on it being interviewed (he had long dangly hair if I remember correctly), and he was saying that they used LightWave for this anime because it has a great cell-shader and it's the best product to get the job done.

Funny, how details like that can stick in your memory all those years, but I remember it well and wish I could play it again.

Oh yeah, there was some Japanese woman as well, saying that she used it to wrap a surface 'round some surfer and create a special effect. Some guy from Paramount was also showing how they made a character burst through a wall in StarTrek. Then there was advertisement demos for Duracell, M&M's, and some other stuff.

It's easier and cheaper to do this stuff than it ever was - but now we have nothing like that really. It's a shame though because the fact that I can remember this thing so vividly after all this time, just goes to show that such things have a lasting effect on people.

Yup, made me want LightWave even more :)

beverins
10-16-2007, 08:17 PM
The recent STEAMBOY movie was made with Lightwave, they even have the Newtek LOGO in their end credits.

I see nawt in any demo reels, nawt in any industry spotlights from newtek though...

Not to disparage the fine workers at Newtek, but really... can you please ADVERTISE LIGHTWAVE WITH A BIT MORE FLAIR?

*Industry spotlight on APPLESEED? nope. Made almost exclusively with Lightwave.
*Industry spotlight on STEAMBOY? Your bloody logo is in the CREDITS. Nope.
*Industry spotlight on LAST EXILE? Nope. You DID have it in your demoreel, though, and you did show clips at SIGGRAPH 2 years ago. Never saw that again.

I think you guys DID do something on Studio GONZO, If I remember correctly?

I'm sorry - but Newtek push the VT and the TRICASTER more than Lightwave. Even 3D ARSENAL gets more playtime.

When was the last time that Newtek had a traveling roadshow that even mentioned Lightwave? The last time I remember one was around 8.0 I believe. 9 hasn't recieved ONE SINGLE roadshow event, even though you call the Roadshows "Newtek Live"

Ok, this turned into a Newtek advertising rant. Sorry.

Yeah, a lot of anime is done with LW. More needs to be said about this.

loki74
10-16-2007, 11:34 PM
Yeah, a lot of anime is done with LW. More needs to be said about this.

anyone happen to know what they used in DeathNote (i definitely remember seeing some cel-shaded 3D animation)?? If they used LW for that particular anime, I think it would be a pretty big deal!

pumeco
10-17-2007, 03:08 AM
@beverins
Thanks for that list, I'll look them up on the web and see what they're about. If they're anything like Ghost in the Shell done in CG then I'll enjoy them I reckon. I like anime, but I don't have the time to be into it as deep as some people are, so I've not really got much idea of what the various animes are all about and such.

@loki74
I like the title "DeathNote" so I'll read-up on that as well :D

@BeeVee
Did you check your PM's today ;)

jin choung
10-17-2007, 03:30 AM
you also get the feeling that lw is taken pretty seriously in japan from the amount of plugin development from those guys.

i mean some of the character animation tests coming out of japan... it really is difficult to believe that it's being done in lw.

AND YET, there isn't a concerted effort to get the word out on those guys.

???

do we not like them or something? is there somekind of enmity between newtek west and newtek east asia or something like that?

that would be just about the only thing that makes sense to why (especially in the absence of prominent and good looking stuff from occidental sources [with the exception of bsg and some others]) we don't spotlight them more.

jin

Sande
10-17-2007, 03:54 AM
you also get the feeling that lw is taken pretty seriously in japan from the amount of plugin development from those guys.

Heh, you are right. I've sometimes felt that I should start learning japanese just to figure out what all those plugins do. :)

archijam
10-17-2007, 08:36 AM
I thought something was missing in this thread .. then I realised: Where the hell is Wickster? One sniff of Japan and he is usually all over it :)

Perhaps he would know some more titles - I was surprised by Appleseed, that's a 'classic' where I come from ...

j.

Exception
10-17-2007, 09:06 AM
I had no idea Last Exile was done in Lightwave, and I love that series...

Yikes.

Well, we made the 9.2 community demo, can't we pull a concerted effort on making a few nice showreels ourselves?

sammael
10-17-2007, 09:12 AM
Blood: The Last Vampire. That one had quite extensive use of LW on the special features disk.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0275230/

Wickster
10-17-2007, 09:16 AM
I thought something was missing in this thread .. then I realised: Where the hell is Wickster? One sniff of Japan and he is usually all over it :)
:D
I'm here...you guys are lucky my internet is down at my house and I'm sneaking this post in from from work. Otherwise I'll be ranting all over the place and posting 1920X1200pixel screen shots with links all over and beyond the the interenet which LW was used in which and where and what Anime LW was used in. Heheh.

Hmmm...I think I'll do that later. :D

LW_Will
10-17-2007, 09:38 AM
FREEDOM... a series of Nissin Cup of Noodles promo episodes by Otomo, are done mostly in Lightwave... right down to the characters. Its subtle, but noticable... you can get the promos for the DVD's from iTunes. Search for FREEDOM.

I think there are alot of CG and 3D CG in Japanese Anime, but I know that Production IG does modeling in LW, and animation in MAX and Maya. It seems that the houses in Japan are taking the idea of not tying their star to a single package.

Wickster
10-17-2007, 10:36 AM
Freedom is one of my favorite Anime. The style is very Akira like ofcourse since it's by Otomo. I think most of it if not all were done in LW. Infact if you bought the HDDVD (very expensive for 26mins of film), the credits includes the Newtek Logo.
Here is the 6 minute prologue, which you can download on your HDDVD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJjrTVyszbg

The studio behind the new Doraemon Anime was showcased at DStorm's site with screenshots of LW and SpeedEdit.
http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/lw9/showcase/ikif_ikif_plus.html

The Japanese profile of Studio Anima and Kamikaze Douga with their work on...ummm I think it's called BugMaster...I'm not too sure, but it includes bugs so...
http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/lw9/showcase/kamikazedouga_anima.html

Production I.G. Profile on Tachiguishi-Retsuden: The Amazing Lives of the Fast Food Grifters, which I'm still begging NewTek to translate and put it on the LW page for us English speaking people. (Please NT Please).
http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/lw8/showcase/ikif_plus.htm

Finally, the GONZO Profile, which, if I could go to NT offices and kneel down and beg to be translated also and put in the LW page.
http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/lw8/showcase/gdh.htm

pumeco
10-17-2007, 02:18 PM
Hey Wickster, looks like archijam was right ;)

I just wondered if you could recommend some anime movies. I only got started liking anime after I saw Ghost in the Shell - which I thought was really excellent. Ever since then I've been wanting to see more stuff like it, and haven't really had the time to hunt around and look up such things (I haven't even seen Ghost in the Shell 2 yet). The one sammael just mentioned, Blood: The Last Vampire, is another I intended to get my hands on, and now that I know LightWave was used it'll be sooner rather than later (and will probably be my first HD DVD purchase).

At the moment though, the only anime's I've seen are the ones they showed during an anime season on Film4 here in the UK. I recorded them via a digital satellite card installed in my PC, so the only ones I have are the ones sitting on my drive.

So far I have :

>Ghost in the Shell
>My Neighbour Totoro
>Nausicaa of the Valley of the Winds
>Whisper of the Heart
>Kiki's Delivery Service
>Laputa: Castle in the Sky
>Spirited Away
>Princess Mononoke
>Porco Rosso

What's weird is that they showed both the English dubbed versions and the original Japanese versions, and I much prefer the Japanese versions even though I can't understand them without the subtitles! The amazing thing is, I like 'every' single one of these anime's which is why I've kept them until they're released on HD DVD. I've got a 22 foot screen to watch them on (projector on a wall), but I'm wanting to update the projector to HD as well, which is why I haven't bothered to 'buy' any anime movies just yet.

If you could recommend, say, 10 animes for me to be getting on with, I'll get them on HD DVD when I can afford to upgrade. At the moment HD isn't cheap and neither are the discs (and I'm skint), so I'd want to be careful until the price drops. I tell ya, it took me years and years to save for my projector and stuff, so I'm choosey what I watch on it.

Oh, plus, my old projector lamp has easy done over 2000 hours now, so time to upgrade to HD I think before the lamp goes pop (that'll save me about 100 for a start) :D

archijam
10-17-2007, 02:53 PM
Definately check out Last Exile - I totally forgot about that one till Exception mentioned it .. quite weird (even for anime) but an atmosphere that sticks in the air after you stop watching ...

j.

Wickster
10-17-2007, 03:14 PM
Hey Wickster, looks like archijam was right ;)

I just wondered if you could recommend some anime movies. I only got started liking anime after I saw Ghost in the Shell - which I thought was really excellent. Ever since then I've been wanting to see more stuff like it, and haven't really had the time to hunt around and look up such things (I haven't even seen Ghost in the Shell 2 yet). The one sammael just mentioned, Blood: The Last Vampire, is another I intended to get my hands on, and now that I know LightWave was used it'll be sooner rather than later (and will probably be my first HD DVD purchase).

At the moment though, the only anime's I've seen are the ones they showed during an anime season on Film4 here in the UK. I recorded them via a digital satellite card installed in my PC, so the only ones I have are the ones sitting on my drive.

So far I have :

>Ghost in the Shell
>My Neighbour Totoro
>Nausicaa of the Valley of the Winds
>Whisper of the Heart
>Kiki's Delivery Service
>Laputa: Castle in the Sky
>Spirited Away
>Princess Mononoke
>Porco Rosso

What's weird is that they showed both the English dubbed versions and the original Japanese versions, and I much prefer the Japanese versions even though I can't understand them without the subtitles! The amazing thing is, I like 'every' single one of these anime's which is why I've kept them until they're released on HD DVD. I've got a 22 foot screen to watch them on (projector on a wall), but I'm wanting to update the projector to HD as well, which is why I haven't bothered to 'buy' any anime movies just yet.

If you could recommend, say, 10 animes for me to be getting on with, I'll get them on HD DVD when I can afford to upgrade. At the moment HD isn't cheap and neither are the discs (and I'm skint), so I'd want to be careful until the price drops. I tell ya, it took me years and years to save for my projector and stuff, so I'm choosey what I watch on it.

Oh, plus, my old projector lamp has easy done over 2000 hours now, so time to upgrade to HD I think before the lamp goes pop (that'll save me about 100 for a start) :D
Well if you liked Ghost in the Shell then you should check out the "AppleSeed" movies. The cel-shading on that is just awesome...it's almost not cel-shading but kinda is. I believe the first AppleSeed movie involved a whole lot of LightWave on it and some XSI also.
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u66tt_u-6Ng

The second AppleSeed (EX MAchina) hasn't come out here yet but its a step up from the first one shading, modeling and animation wise. I can't wait for this one to come out.
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B3EbU2RoQw

And if you liked Blood the Last Vampire then let me introduce you to Karas. There are 3D elements on it but I'm not sure if LightWave was used on it, but its a great reference material.
Opening Scene of Episode 1 (of 4 episodes total I think):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K2z-AMauFs

In other Japanese Lightwave related news that not Anime, I want to see the a full profile of Team ICO that made the "ICO" game and "Shadow of the Colossus." There was an online article back then (sorry can't find the link at the moment) about the making of Shadow of the Colossus which features massive LightWave eyecandy screenshots.

SALA
10-17-2007, 07:51 PM
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20051207/3dwa.htm

It is explained in detail very much though it is a Japanese page.

riki
10-17-2007, 08:16 PM
Yeah I live in Japan now, but can't speak Japanese. I can order a beer, say hello, thank you etc. I really need to learn, it would improve my job prospects.

jin choung
10-17-2007, 09:53 PM
wow, thank you for the link sala.

incredible stuff and stuff that is definitely not associated with lw in the states.

jin

Castius
10-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Check this one out

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~knj/

I managed to make my way though the site and it has a great making of for there TV show. Lots of screen shots of LW with zbrush. It also showed a progression of there rigs. From standard IK FK switching to adding stretchy IK setups. As well as lscripted rigs.

Click on the sectioned marked as new then click on the first link. That should get you to most of the content.

JamesCurtis
10-18-2007, 02:06 PM
I just noticed that there is now a 2nd volume to the FREEDOM anime HDDVD! However, the original FREEDOM HDDVD is temporarily sold out at where I order my movies through the internet. [www.dvdplanet.com]

Darn! I wonder if Best Buy carries it?

archijam
10-18-2007, 02:24 PM
I managed to make my way though the site and it has a great making of for there TV show. Lots of screen shots of LW with zbrush. It also showed a progression of there rigs. From standard IK FK switching to adding stretchy IK setups. As well as lscripted rigs.

Did you make a map? I couldn't get anywhere.

So .. what can be done with all this cool stuff? It's really a shame to sentence it to the Films section on the NT website, which just gets written off as dated as soon as another year passes ..

BeeVee .. shall we make a Japanese shrine on http://www.lightwiki.com/ to begin with (tho I think NT should really do at least a spotlight on the website...)?

j.

cresshead
10-18-2007, 02:36 PM
voice of a distant star...lw [2002.] but a great story
also the followup full length film i think...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FRM84QNGL._SS500_.jpg


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ClkdJO%2BnL._SS500_.jpg


also sky blue i think....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X96X1C1XL._SS500_.jpg

pumeco
10-19-2007, 08:38 AM
Thanks everyone who recommended me some anime's to see.

I tried to find a website yesterday where I'd be able to input an anime 'type' and it do some recommendations on a specific genre of anime - but haven't find anything that can do it so far. I didn't realise there were so many of these things - hell - I typed in 'Ghost in the Shell' on one website and got a page full of stuff for that one alone!

I agree the ones recommended look really good, I'm also going to have a go at searching out the darker gothic-like anime's if there are any (I'm sure there will be). I like stuff that's dark, sinister, or just absolutely weird really. I like the family stuff as well, but a bit of grim reality once in a while never hurt anyone either (especially when it's not real) :devil:

LW_Will
10-19-2007, 01:20 PM
I just noticed that there is now a 2nd volume to the FREEDOM anime HDDVD! However, the original FREEDOM HDDVD is temporarily sold out at where I order my movies through the internet. [www.dvdplanet.com]

Darn! I wonder if Best Buy carries it?


I don't know but FRY'S has it here in San Diego. ;-)

Those disk do have a DVD in the pack in addition to the Blu-Ray or the HDVD, but come on, its an add for Cup of Noodles fer chizzake!

Looks wonderful from what I saw...

LW_Will
10-19-2007, 01:28 PM
Now, if you want to get into recommending anime, that's another story, and I think we'll leave that one for later.

On the Ghost in the Shell topic, the first of the TV shows had the Lightwave made Opening, very nice, if stiff, stuff in there. The rest of the series the CGI was made with Max and I think XSI.

"The Laughing Man" film is out from GitS and its okay (different American Voices... ehhhhh), but there is an interview with the director on the second disk all about the making of the scripts, animation, 3D CGI, and compositing. A very fascinating look at the animation business in Japan.

Philbert
10-19-2007, 02:37 PM
I'm going to have to check out some of these anime you guys are mentioning. I love Appleseed and can't wait to see the sequel. Many years ago I knew the guy who did the animation for the Ghost in the Shell PSX game opening. Last Exile was indeed awesome, I think I saw it on Cartoon Network or something a while back.

Armitage: Dual Matrix (starring Juliette Lewis) uses some Lightwave, you can see it in the behind the scenes stuff on the DVD.
This trailer shows so of the LW use in the car chase scenes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZwq5H4a1jI

pumeco
10-19-2007, 04:08 PM
Thanks will, and hey, you know what I was saying about wanting something dark and sinister.
Well, right now I'm checking out animeonestop.com and I think I found something - check out the description and link :

"...Set during a futuristic Cold War, the stylish series follows the globetrotting adventures of secret agent Mylene Hoffman (aka 009-1),
a female, cyborg super-spy with an arsenal of built-in gadgets such as ample breasts that double as guns.
This volume introduces the thrilling anime series with the first four episodes..."
http://www.animeonestop.com/anime-Details.cfm?info=ADV017162

Now that I've just GOT to see. I mean I love the Bond movies, but hell, even those women can't match that sort of kit :D :D :D

Phil, that looks like a good series from the YouTube stuff :thumbsup:

pumeco
10-19-2007, 05:04 PM
I've just took a closer look at that one mentioned by cresshead; Voices of a Distant Star:
http://www.dvdplanet.com/details.cfm?info=ADVVD001DVD

You told us it was LightWave, but wow, you should have told us it was made by a single person on his home computer as well :)
I am DEFINATELY going to be getting that one! I wish I knew the running time though, it doesn't mention it. Also, when they say Original:Japanese Dubbed:English, I'm wondering what exactly they mean by that. Does it just mean that the movie is originally in Japanese but has been dubbed into English, or do they mean it's the original Japanese audio with English audio as as option? I'm hoping these things have the original Japanese audio.

BTW, here's one which should be of particular interest to LightWaver's because it's all about making your own anime movie using software. It sounds like it would be worth checking out:
http://www.dvdplanet.com/Details.cfm?info=TYP001812

cresshead
10-19-2007, 05:16 PM
http://www.dvdplanet.com/images/MuzeDVDCovers/91/214491.jpg

yeah got that too...the exras are really good takes you thru how he made his video with lightwave mirage etc....

check out his latest here too

www.studioartfx.com


as for Voices of a Distant Star..it's one of my all time FAV dvd's...not just anime but anything...really neat story/feel

Tesselator
10-19-2007, 08:24 PM
you also get the feeling that lw is taken pretty seriously in japan from the amount of plugin development from those guys.

i mean some of the character animation tests coming out of japan... it really is difficult to believe that it's being done in lw.

AND YET, there isn't a concerted effort to get the word out on those guys.

???

do we not like them or something? is there somekind of enmity between newtek west and newtek east asia or something like that?

that would be just about the only thing that makes sense to why (especially in the absence of prominent and good looking stuff from occidental sources [with the exception of bsg and some others]) we don't spotlight them more.

jin

I live in Japan and speak fluent Japanese.

I was hired on at NewTek for that very reason and was supposed to assume
work doing those kinds of things among other assorted duties after finishing
up the Node manual but the guy who hired me (Peter) moved on and all the
stuff we were setting up seems to have vanished with his departure.

Oh well, I got to make two introduction videos for the node editor and start
off the node manual. :) I'm pretty happy with that for now. Maybe in the
future things will come around again? <shrug>

SALA
10-19-2007, 08:30 PM
It is an official site of production I.G being written that LW is used well in CGI magazine put
on the market in Japan.

It often seems to have synthesized other parts to the cell animated cartoon by
using LW assisting.

There is an English page, too.

http://www.production-ig.co.jp/

English Page
http://www.productionig.com/

jin choung
10-20-2007, 01:35 AM
hey tess,

long time no see!

that's a shame that the japan spotlight stuff fell through... if a big change in character animation isn't coming into the software itself, we gotta see what you guys are doing!

oh well, hope it pans out eventually.

been to the akihabara lately? :)

jin

Tesselator
10-21-2007, 12:06 AM
jin choung wrote:
hey tess,

long time no see!

Hehe, yeah, I still remember in ancient times long past when you
and DA would stretch threads to maximum length and verbosity.
That was fun! I hear DA is having some medical problems. :o I
hope everything is going ok for him! I think about him (and you)
often.


that's a shame that the japan spotlight stuff fell through... if a big change in
character animation isn't coming into the software itself, we gotta see what
you guys are doing!

Yeah, it's a pretty different head here - concerning LW technique - I guess I
had a little something to do with that. It would have been fun though, I
could see all my old students in action on the job, and set up a healthy
promotion and exchange of LW sales and developer support between here
and the rest of the world. :D


been to the akihabara lately? :)

Every chance I get man! The black-maid cafe's are all over the place there
now. :D It's a trip... imagine extreme goth babes in french-maid uniforms
not only serving you coffee but sitting with you as you drink it - on just about
every other street corner. :alien:


.

Philbert
10-21-2007, 12:43 AM
been to the akihabara lately? :)

Every chance I get man! The black-maid cafe's are all over the place there
now. :D It's a trip... imagine extreme goth babes in french-maid uniforms
not only serving you coffee but sitting with you as you drink it - on just about
every other street corner. :alien: .

That sounds awesome! lol I've wanted to visit Japan for a long long time. Actually I did an art test for a game studio in Kyoto a while back. They liked my work but I think they decided to go with someone in Japan.

jin choung
10-21-2007, 12:55 AM
haha! yeah, those were fun times at the ol' usenet! i remember the nested replies i'd open up inside of outlook express and some of my exchanges with mr. adams did run precariously long! lol.

i probably would still be there if my internet provider way back when didn't all of a sudden break my connection to it! i called multiple times and they never could get it sorted out.

yikes, that's a real shame about dave. i really really hope he's better now.

Yeah, it's a pretty different head here - concerning LW technique - I guess I
had a little something to do with that. It would have been fun though, I
could see all my old students in action on the job, and set up a healthy
promotion and exchange of LW sales and developer support between here
and the rest of the world.

awwww man... now i REALLY hope that newtek is paying attention to THIS! that sounds like a great idea. (and kudos to you btw) seriously, i had extremely little faith in the possibility of gainful lw character animation until i saw some demos from the japanese sites (like that awesome site that does that program that maestro seems to be modeling itself after... forgot the name... and also there's a youtube video that compares maya and lw character manipulation in split screen)

and there's a book i have about cg production on games in japan (kind of an older book "japanese game graphics" and they spotlight some people who did game cutscenes and such in lw [like the lupin game]) and it always made me wonder what the heck they're doing over there!

everyone stateside just switched over to maya for character animation so very little of lw character animation is really talked about in terms of professional work.

i'd really love to see their process. what's a rig like in a japanese lw pipeline? how do they get around the sometimes serious restrictions and limitations lw imposes? suuuuuuuuuuch rich fodder for articles!

Every chance I get man! The black-maid cafe's are all over the place there
now. It's a trip... imagine extreme goth babes in french-maid uniforms
not only serving you coffee but sitting with you as you drink it - on just about
every other street corner.

what in the world?! ...IN FRENCH MAID UNIFORMS? oh man. if that was like an affordable thing, i would be there everyday! it's a lonely otaku's dream come true! or if you're doing freelance stuff, just setup your lw on a laptop and just keep the caffeine and...french maids comin!

anyhoo, good seein' you, be well and yeah, let's hope that a japanese spotlight materializes! that sounds like good stuff!

jin

Sensei
10-21-2007, 02:43 AM
Japan is almost half of the community (AFAIK), but it seems we only get the briefest look info what they are doing, and even then usually only through the plugin writers.


Where do you got that information that Japan is half of LW community? We have sold less than 1% of our plug-ins to Japan customers...

archijam
10-21-2007, 03:20 AM
Where do you got that information that Japan is half of LW community? We have sold less than 1% of our plug-ins to Japan customers...

I am not party to LW sales figures (nor should I be).

I was refering in part to the fact that the LW world is separated into 2 entities, Japan and the rest of the planet...

This forum has a spanish section, and through Spinquad etc. the French, Italian and Portugese users are never far out of the loop ..

So in user numbers, I am far off in that statement, no question. As far as application - film (anime) and series production worldwide using LW as the major part of their pipeline? I think the gap is not so wide from the 'half' I mentioned. I can imagine there is a smaller proportion of 'hobby' users, for example.

I think we could all learn alot from the Japanese modes of using LW, and the only winner would be the LW community as a whole ...

As for plugin sales, thought of translating and promoting your plugins in Japanese? :) The key differentiator here afterall is language, pure and simple - these days difference of language is hugely underestimated.

j.

Tesselator
10-21-2007, 09:49 AM
Where do you got that information that Japan is half of LW community? We have sold less than 1% of our plug-ins to Japan customers...

Yeah, the markets don't mix well. Most Japanese LWer's I've taught and met
aren't afraid to code up a plug-in to get something done. It usually takes
less time than reading an english site, figuring a way around paypal which
doesn't wrok here, downloading it and tryinng to make it work for whatever
they wanted to do in the first place. Plus there are lots of plug-in authors
here that will do custome plug-ins and are dependable when it comes to
immediate support - which is another issue: Japanese have a very different
set of expectations than "westerners" when it comes to customer support.

cresshead
10-21-2007, 09:58 AM
sounds as though Japan is the ''place to be'' for lightwave in production.
i do love the japanese anime dvd's...and i'm an avid viewer of the track-shun video podcast that reviews all the new stuff coming out over there.

http://files.animetracker.com/

ericsmith
10-21-2007, 02:36 PM
like that awesome site that does that program that maestro seems to be modeling itself after...

I really can't figure out why you keep saying this. Maestro was developed before Automation tools was ever publicized. And more importantly, they're really nothing alike.

Maestro's biggest strength is the control panel, which includes both macro execution (like the rigs), and very powerful joystick style animation control. Honestly, there's nothing quite like Maestro, not only for Lightwave, but for any other 3d app that I'm aware of.

Eric

cresshead
10-21-2007, 02:53 PM
I really can't figure out why you keep saying this. Maestro was developed before Automation tools was ever publicized. And more importantly, they're really nothing alike.

Maestro's biggest strength is the control panel, which includes both macro execution (like the rigs), and very powerful joystick style animation control. Honestly, there's nothing quite like Maestro, not only for Lightwave, but for any other 3d app that I'm aware of.

Eric

what plugin is that then...re the japanese character plugin your alluding to?

as for similar plugins for other apps..though automatron doesn't have hotspots some of the look and feel of automatron is also seen in meastro though automatron also works with mo cap and has a walk designer [walkatron] as well as a pose lib and playback system..no face morph system though.

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/MSC_sm.jpg

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/PWS_Sm.jpg

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/WalkatronSm.jpg

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/KeyFrameTools.jpg

i've not used it in production yet but playing with it so far has been pretty good.

i'll say one thing it's VERY ''comprehensive'' in what controls you can use.

steve g

pumeco
10-21-2007, 03:28 PM
http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/MSC_sm.jpg

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/PWS_Sm.jpg

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/WalkatronSm.jpg

http://www.lotsofrobots.com/automatron/features/images/KeyFrameTools.jpg

GOOD GOD!!! - never seen this thing before - looks bloody amazing :eek: :eek: :eek:

Now 'that' looks like something that'd come in handy for creating your own blockbuster anime if ever I saw it. I bet that thing comes with a fairly comprehensive user guide, hopefully in English as well as Japanese!

ericsmith
10-21-2007, 03:29 PM
what plugin is that then...re the japanese character plugin your alluding to?

I believe he's referring to Automation Tools, which is basically a bunch of plugins that include an autorigger, and a walk generator among other things.


as for similar plugins for other apps..though automatron doesn't have hotspots some of the look and feel of automatron is also seen in meastro though automatron also works with mo cap and has a walk designer [walkatron] as well as a pose lib and playback system..no face morph system though.

The thing is, I've seen one dimentional sliders in Maya, XSI, and Max, but where Maestro is unique is that it allows two-dimetional mouse control, and you can customize it to work in much more intuitive and creative ways, including overlapping multiple hotspots to gain even more levels of control. Then there's the notion of multi-layered hotspots, which speed things up tremendously.

For example, you can set vertical mouse movement to raise and lower an object, and horizontal mouse movement to rotate on the object's heading. You can even set different objects to horizontal and vertical, so you are controlling two objects at the same time. This kind of customizable flexibility of control is something that I have never seen, even in more "character animation friendly" apps like Maya, XSI, and Max. From what I've seen, Messiah hints at some of this with something called armatures, but it's still nothing like what Maestro does.

To conclude, I'm not trying to say that Maestro is the most powerful animation software/plugin in the world, just that it's unique. It kind of got my dander up to hear someone basically say that it's a knockoff of some other free plugin. (No offense to you Jin, I think it was just a misunderstanding)

Eric

jin choung
10-21-2007, 03:31 PM
I really can't figure out why you keep saying this. Maestro was developed before Automation tools was ever publicized. And more importantly, they're really nothing alike.

Maestro's biggest strength is the control panel, which includes both macro execution (like the rigs), and very powerful joystick style animation control. Honestly, there's nothing quite like Maestro, not only for Lightwave, but for any other 3d app that I'm aware of.

Eric

ah, automation tools... that's it.

sorry if that's inaccurate. i thought i heard that somewhere. but when you say it was out before automation tools was "publicized"... what does that mean?

was automation tools indeed out before maestro?

in terms of completely different... errr, the rigging stuff looks pretty the same... no?

jin

cresshead
10-21-2007, 03:54 PM
hi sorry to take the thread off topic [again!] yeah i think your implementation of hotspots is unique from what i've seen available over in max...automatron is as you can see based on spinners...one positive aspect to spinners is a visual numerical feedback though as you have pointed out it's 1 dimensional in operation....

addtionally something i'd like to see in lightwave/meastro in future are 2 things...

a walk loop designer similar in operation to walkatron with the clip based playback system and also a pose lib with a playback system

have a look at the vids from automatron to get what i'm at.

...okay...back on topic!
...just started to watch zone of the enders on dvd [got the box set]....liking it so far!

Tesselator
10-21-2007, 03:54 PM
sounds as though Japan is the ''place to be'' for lightwave in production.
i do love the japanese anime dvd's...and i'm an avid viewer of the track-shun video podcast that reviews all the new stuff coming out over there.

http://files.animetracker.com/


It might be I dunno... It's different is all I know. Most LW production
houses and boutiques I know about aren't targeting TV, Film and Web like
in the US. TV and Theater Film is pretty much all XSI here (lion's share).
Web I can't seem to track here - it's all over the place - and usually as
soon as someone mentions they're creating web content I tune out and
lose interest - I know, <my bad>.

Tesselator
10-21-2007, 03:56 PM
ah, automation tools... that's it.

sorry if that's inaccurate. i thought i heard that somewhere. but when you say it was out before automation tools was "publicized"... what does that mean?

was automation tools indeed out before maestro?

in terms of completely different... errr, the rigging stuff looks pretty the same... no?

jin


It looks totally different to me. To <me> Maestro looks allot like Motion Builder though.

ericsmith
10-21-2007, 03:57 PM
sorry if that's inaccurate. i thought i heard that somewhere. but when you say it was out before automation tools was "publicized"... what does that mean?

was automation tools indeed out before maestro?

Nah, I was just covering my butt. As far as I know, Maestro came first. We announced it's release in January 2005, and the first post I can find announcing Automation tools is March 2006, just over a year later. But I have no knowlege of when Automation tools was actually developed, so I can't say difinitively that they weren't working on their tools before we released.


in terms of completely different... errr, the rigging stuff looks pretty the same... no?

I'd say no for a few reasons. First, just because a plugin does rigging, doesn't make them the same. The rigs I provide are probably very different than those made by Automation tools. But more importantly, Maestro makes it very easy to customize or create your own rigging macros. These can do much more than just rig a character. For example, I created the light and camera rig and the walk generator using the same kind of simple text files run through the macro engine.

Plugins like ACS4, T4d, Automation tools, etc. will autorig a character with their rig. Maestro is the only rigging tool that allows you to create your own autorigger from scratch.

And as I mentioned before, autorigging is just the icing on the cake. The real power of Maestro is in the controller. If you consider that as part of the "rig", then you get something none of the other autorigging plugins can even come close to.

Eric

ericsmith
10-21-2007, 04:00 PM
It looks totally different to me. To <me> Maestro looks allot like Motion Builder though.

I think that's just cosmetic, though.

As far as I know, Motion Builder's "character picker" works just like all the other character pickers out there. It only allows you to select the rig's goal items, but you still have to animate them in the viewport.

Eric

ericsmith
10-21-2007, 04:09 PM
a walk loop designer similar in operation to walkatron with the clip based playback system and also a pose lib with a playback system

At the moment, I think that a parametric walk generator as sophisticated as Max's Biped or Automatron is probably outside of our abilities. We were able to create our walk generator by turning the steps you would normally have to do manually into a series of commands that are executed by hitting a command hotspot. So really, Maestro is just hand animating the walk for you.

but we do have the ability to save and load poses and motions, even between different characters. And we have these pose hotspots that allow you to drag from the character's current pose to the saved pose, just like how morph mixer works.

Eric

jin choung
10-21-2007, 05:23 PM
Nah, I was just covering my butt. As far as I know, Maestro came first. We announced it's release in January 2005, and the first post I can find announcing Automation tools is March 2006, just over a year later. But I have no knowlege of when Automation tools was actually developed, so I can't say difinitively that they weren't working on their tools before we released.


okidoke,

i stand corrected and hereby retract any and all times i've made the erroneous statement (twice i think....). all due apologies to you sir. no ill-intent meant.

rock on.

jin

ericsmith
10-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Cool.

I hope I didn't make it sound like I was banging you over the head or anything. It's just that we've struggled with some misperceptions of what Maestro really is from the very beginning. It's probably our own fault, as we first introduced it as an autorigger, and then mentioned the control panel.

It's tough, because I don't think many people would be interested if we just put out the controller without something to go with it (like a rigged character). And because we created it for character animation, it just made sense to put it together as the complete package. But for whatever reason, a lot of people don't seem to see past the words "autorigger", and they aren't aware of how much deeper it goes.

Eric

jin choung
10-21-2007, 10:20 PM
nono, you were more than magnanimous. just owning up to the error. :)

jin

pumeco
10-22-2007, 05:26 PM
Having nearly died when I saw those Animatron screen-captures posted , I thought I'd spend some time looking it up on the forum. Of course, after about an hour of reading I finally discover it's not even a LightWave plugin :foreheads

:screwy: :D

cresshead
10-23-2007, 11:13 AM
ahh soz!

was in regard to meastro and auto rigging/animation per s, not lightwave centric!

pumeco
10-23-2007, 01:54 PM
ahh soz!Yeah, I should think so as well ;)
BTW, good luck to all of you involved in Venus Rises. I had a listen to your download this morning; sounds great!

Tesselator
10-23-2007, 07:06 PM
Every chance I get man! The black-maid cafe's are all over the place there
now. It's a trip... imagine extreme goth babes in french-maid uniforms
not only serving you coffee but sitting with you as you drink it - on just about
every other street corner.

what in the world?! ...IN FRENCH MAID UNIFORMS? oh man. if that was like an affordable thing, i would be there everyday! it's a lonely otaku's dream come true! or if you're doing freelance stuff, just setup your lw on a laptop and just keep the caffeine and...french maids comin!

anyhoo, good seein' you, be well and yeah, let's hope that a japanese spotlight materializes! that sounds like good stuff!

jin

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=892858199

Philbert
10-25-2007, 01:33 AM
It seems Akihabara is losing it's popularity and "cool" factor. Apparently the new place to be is Nakano Broadway.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fo20070927pm.html

pumeco
03-21-2008, 02:46 PM
Just wanted to update this to say I recently rented one of the recommendations here : Sky Blue.

I liked it, I'd definately buy it. I think it's the first one I've seen from South Korea, and after listening to one of the included features, it seems as if they're after taking the crown from the Japanese with Anime production. I have to say it looked and sounded excellent, so they're going the right way about it.

Anyway, I haven't gone ahead and bought any of these Animes on HD-DVD, bloody god job as well wasn't it :D

R.I.P HD-DVD, I'll be buying on Blu-ray instead.

Philbert
03-21-2008, 03:26 PM
Anyway, I haven't gone ahead and bought any of these Animes on HD-DVD, bloody god job as well wasn't it :D


There's no S in anime! Sorry that irks me. BTW something just reminded me of another great one. No LW in it, but still very good. A Wind Named Amnesia is about one day when a mysterious wind blows across the whole world and wipes out the memories of everyone, leaving all of the people of the world much like cave men, not knowing how to drive cars, or do their jobs, or even talk. Except of course for one young man who becomes part of an experiment and very quickly relearns how to talk and do basic things. It's a fascinating concept.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/a-wind-named-amnesia/dvd/by-bamboo-dong

pumeco
03-21-2008, 03:36 PM
Sorry Philly, for the typo I mean.
Methinks the 'Wind of Amnesia' got me :D

What?

pumeco
03-21-2008, 03:37 PM
BTW, that sounds like a good story - I'll check that out.

cresshead
03-21-2008, 03:43 PM
yeah sky blue is a great movie..loved the start of the film a great way to ease you into the story.

Philbert
03-21-2008, 08:09 PM
They are looking at getting "Amnesia" up at animecrazy.net, so you may find it there soon.

ncr100
05-26-2009, 12:04 PM
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20051207/3dwa.htm

It is explained in detail very much though it is a Japanese page.

No longer in Japanese, this one is in English! Prominently shows LightWave and describes some of the tricks needed to give Shadow of the Colossus' realistic movement and bloom (trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y1_lQ-go2o)).

http://edusworld.org/ew/ficheros/2006/paginasWeb/making_of_sotc.html



:cool:

beverins
06-01-2009, 09:39 AM
If you look at about 4:47, you see the Newtek logo for the STEAMBOY movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5Z7LqamrA&feature=related

First and only time I have seen this. I hope that Newtek gave them some love back.

Wickster
06-01-2009, 11:08 AM
The NewTek logo is on every episode of the "Freedom" anime. :)

making of right...HERE (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dstorm.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Flw9%2 Fshowcase%2Ffreedom_20071120.html&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=)

Cageman
06-02-2009, 01:29 PM
The NewTek logo is on every episode of the "Freedom" anime. :)

making of right...HERE (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dstorm.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Flw9%2 Fshowcase%2Ffreedom_20071120.html&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=)

I always LOL when reading such babelfish translations...

"In doing so, it will be easier to transfer, as is the color of the staff still works, I mean colors of the studio. I also like that, I think I'm funny. 3D, so this advantage may be used. However, 3D does not make. I want to work. And therefore only used as a useful tool."

ken_g9
06-02-2009, 04:33 PM
It seems Akihabara is losing it's popularity and "cool" factor. Apparently the new place to be is Nakano Broadway.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fo20070927pm.html

Woo!! That's like my Japanese backyard. Nakano broadway is my shopping place in Japan. If there is one reason anime otakus go there, it must be because of Mandarake, a shop that sells second hand comics, books, DVD's music CD, toys and figurines, games, collectibles (like a gundam as big as a person) and everything related to anime. :D Didn't know it was big in Japan already though. :)

pumeco
02-03-2010, 04:54 PM
Well, I finally got a Blu-ray player and have been buying some Anime in that format. I notice there's a NewTek logo in the credits of Ghost in the Shell 2 Innocence. Anyone know why? I'm suppose it means that either LightWave or SpeedEDIT was used, but I don't know which.

Either way, it made me smile when I saw it, it's a excellent movie for them to have their logo on :thumbsup:

Philbert
02-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Well, I finally got a Blu-ray player and have been buying some Anime in that format. I notice there's a NewTek logo in the credits of Ghost in the Shell 2 Innocence. Anyone know why? I'm suppose it means that either LightWave or SpeedEDIT was used, but I don't know which.

Either way, it made me smile when I saw it, it's a excellent movie for them to have their logo on :thumbsup:

A lot of anime are made with LightWave. In fact if you watch the special features on the Armitage: Dual Matrix DVD you can see some behind the scenes shots of LW being used to make a car chase scene.

Here's a screenshot of that:
http://content.screencast.com/users/philnolan3d/folders/Jing/media/f6f94fbb-6da8-49a0-bfd1-83bd03de430b/2010-02-03_2154.png

gordonp
02-03-2010, 08:33 PM
I think Blue Sub 6 was mostly LW as well. Traditional 2D characters, but most everything else is 3D.

pumeco
04-13-2010, 04:14 AM
Thankyou both, it's cool to know, will check those out sooner or later :thumbsup:

It's a bit frustrating right now, because not many of these Anime are available on Blu-ray yet, and it seems a bit pointless purchasing DVD if it can be avoided. I still purchase DVD, but only if I absolutely can't wait for a Blu-ray disc. In fact the only two I've managed to get on Blu-ray so far, are the Ghost in the Shell movies one and two.

BTW, wasn't they supposed to be fixing this forum to allow embedded YouTube? I thought I read it somewhere on here a while back, but I just looked and see no button for it yet. I was about to post a Japanese music vid to liven-up the thread, and then I noticed the lack of embedding.

I blame Ben, he's probably been slacking or something :D

Titus
04-13-2010, 12:41 PM
I think Blue Sub 6 was mostly LW as well. Traditional 2D characters, but most everything else is 3D.

Blue Submarine 6 looks really outdated right now. Japanese are not that good with 3D.

Andyjaggy
04-13-2010, 12:56 PM
Blue Submarine 6 looks really outdated right now. Japanese are not that good with 3D.

Interesting generalization. I've heard Mexicans are pretty lousy at 3D too.

Philbert
04-13-2010, 12:58 PM
Especially considering that it was made in 1998.

pumeco
04-13-2010, 01:01 PM
Interesting generalization. I've heard Mexicans are pretty lousy at 3D too.
Hah, you were just asking for a reply like that, Titus :D

pumeco
04-13-2010, 01:02 PM
BTW, peasants, it matters not how good any particular race is!
Nah, what matters is that you're all crap compared to me :hey:

Titus
04-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Interesting generalization. I've heard Mexicans are pretty lousy at 3D too.

Yes, they are. I'm Chilean BTW.

Titus
04-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Especially considering that it was made in 1998.

Iron Giant (1999) is much better combining 3D and 2D than Blue Submarine 6. I'm fan of both, but Blue just looks wrong nowadays.

Titus
04-13-2010, 02:20 PM
BTW, peasants, it matters not how good any particular race is!
Nah, what matters is that you're all crap compared to me :hey:

My commentary wasn't aimed to a race, I wasn't aware Japanese was a race. The problem is, anime (Japanese like to create anime, right?) isn't really well translated to 3D for some reason.

I understand they have a term in animation (and art in general): ma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_(negative_space)). Ma means something like do nothing, in western animation we cannot do nothing so we use moving holds. 3D needs moving holds, ma doesn't work well.

Philbert
04-13-2010, 02:57 PM
I think they have some some fantastic 3D work IMO. Look at Ghost In The Shell 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBVr_7I4FtE), Final Fantasy Advent Children (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7_W9-F9uAo). Miyazaki's films like Howl's Moving Castle also have nice 3D. Now sure there is some that's not the greatest, but I certainly wouldn't say it's all bad.

Andyjaggy
04-13-2010, 03:02 PM
It seemed you were saying Japanese people weren't any good at 3D, when in fact what it appears you meant to say is Japanese style (Anime) doesn't translate well to 3D.

S'all good.

Vagrants
04-14-2010, 06:24 AM
The following vids are the latest TV Anime using 3D tools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGL2w_atbm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erbHO6qyG08

They seem to walk entirely another way...:)

speismonqui
04-14-2010, 03:48 PM
what about Vexille? is it XSI?

Vagrants
04-15-2010, 04:25 AM
Vexille was made using Maya and MotionBuilder.
It is considerably different from Anime.
Anime is more delicate, the thing such as the sensitive gift.

Nemoid
04-17-2010, 09:15 AM
since lately we see The Deacon gathering stuff for Nt marketing, i think he should just get in contact with some anime studio, and put anime made with Lw in the list of works done with it.:thumbsup: