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view3d
06-28-2003, 04:29 AM
not trying to start a flame war but trying to understand the differences between dfx and combustion. Combustion appears to be much cheaper, including capabilities that you have to pay extra for in dfx and works at up to 16bits per channel....

What are the pros/comparisions on dfx+ vs combustion ??

d

jr_sunshine
06-28-2003, 07:47 AM
Ok.... I can help you here. I just went through this same decision process.

First, I recommend you download the demos for Combustion and DFX+ from their respective companies. Give each a try and see what you like and dislike about the workflow and controls. This is important because one person may like one way of doing things and another hate it. For example, i also tried the After Effects demo and hated the interface and controls so much I couldn't uninstall it fast enough.

Second, know what you need in terms of features. I was looking for a pro quality compositor that had a productive interface and could do tracking and camera stabilization, pro-level keying, vector paint, particles, and some color correction.

Next, I did a side-by-side on the apps:

DFX+ w/ mod 1+4 LW 8 Promo is $495. If you are going to upgrade to 8, this is a no-brainer deal. You get LW 8 and a pro compositor to boot.

Combustion is about 800 - 1000 depending on where you get it.

DFX+ w/ mod 1+4 only satifies part of my requirements. Tracking, Good interface, some color correction, no particles, no paint, and entry level keying.

Combution on the other hand has all of the features I wanted but is more expensive. It is though less than getting the modules for DFX+ to match the features.

And the comparison went on and on.

THE BOTTOM LINE:
--------------------------------
I chose DFX+.

After using both apps for some time and trying examples for all the features, I really liked the stability and productivity of the DFX+ interface. DFX+ is a true flow based compositing app. Combustion is a great app but I did not like the workflow of it after using DFX+. I just felt DFX+ made me more productive.

One feature I needed to be able to use once I got the software was stabilizing DV footage. DFX+ was a bit difficult to understand at first compared to Combustion but once I figured out how it works, stabilize worked to perfection. The results were outstanding. Combustion was easier to get working, but the stabilizer did not get the footage stable on the first few tries.

Both apps are very complex and difficult to grasp at first., but once you get a handle on the flow based system of DFX+ you will never go back. It makes so much sense and is very productive. Just about anything can be connected to anything in DFX+. This means you have unlimted options for compositing. Also, DFX+ has incredible format and processing options for footage. It does pull down removal and addition. It can interlace and de-interlace. It is an excellent tool for video and 3D production.

Hope that helps,
Roy

view3d
06-28-2003, 03:43 PM
Thanks for you reply!

Do you have the particle module?

How does it compare to particle illusion?

d

jr_sunshine
06-28-2003, 04:42 PM
I didn't get to finish my story in my last post. I called Eyeon to get the particle module and found out they are running a special price for all the remaining modules (except for #5). It was such a good deal that I decided to go for the remainig modules.

So, yes i do have the particle engine. The DFX+ particle module is integrated into DFX+ which I like and I think it may be a bit more powerful than Particle Illusion. The one think it has as a big negative is it is fairly complicated, and somewhat slow. Particle Illusion was great for its responsiveness and the pre-configured particle emitters.

But, the upside of the DFX+ particle engine is it is extremely configurable and can take just about any DFX+ flow item as an input. This means you can do just about anything. And the other biggie is it is inside DFX+. You don't have to pull any tricks to merge content properly.

v/r,

view3d
06-28-2003, 04:48 PM
interesting... what type of prices are they offering?
I wish they had more demos on their site that actually showed what each module/effect does...

d

jr_sunshine
06-28-2003, 04:59 PM
I sent you a private message. I don't know if Eyeon wants the prices to go public or not. My guess is it doesn't matter, but to be respectful I sent the info to you in a private message. Let's just say the price is VERY GOOD!!!!

UnCommonGrafx
06-29-2003, 09:44 AM
Where can the rest of us go on this pricing delerium?

jr_sunshine
06-29-2003, 12:39 PM
You can give them a call or e-mail their sales dept. Email at [email protected] or by phone at 1-416-686-8411 ex.1. that's all I did. I just happen to be lucky enough that the sales person told me they were starting a new special for SIGRAPH. Just give them a call and tell them you heard through the grapevine that they were offering a great deal on the remainin modules. I'm sure they will help ya. Or... just wait til SIGRAPH and it will probably be displayed on their website.

Cheers,

jr_sunshine
06-29-2003, 12:41 PM
BTW: Both their sales dept and their tech support people are outstanding. The sales person took measures at the end of the work day to get my order in and get someone from their tech area to send me the unlock keys.

When i had a question on the next day (a saturday) the tech support people (via e-mail yet) got back to me within a few hours.

They have a customer for life with this kind of service.

Plus, DFX+ is incredible.

Doug Nicola
07-02-2003, 10:14 AM
Hi jr_sunshine,

Would you mind PMing me with the details on this deal?

CoryC
07-02-2003, 01:02 PM
I have had the opposite from Eyeon. I have emailed the sales twice and then the rep that has been posting here and still haven't had a reply.

jr_sunshine
07-02-2003, 01:31 PM
Hang in there.

Those of you who have e-mailed Eyeon... be patient. I just called the sales rep who helped me.... I called her directly on her mobile phone and she said, "Yes, there is a special on the remaining modules that is slated to run for SIGGRAPH, but people can take advantage now." She also said the reason Eyeon has not advertised it yet is they are finializing the different ways this deal can be aquired.

So, for those who have said in other forums (not anyone here) that I was wrong, be prepared to eat crow.

And it is a sweet deal !!!!!!

Azod
07-02-2003, 01:49 PM
Hello Cory,

I replied to your email as soon as I received it this morning. As I explained in that email, the last two days have been a Canadian holiday and we are catching up today and the rest of the week. I’m sure you will be contacted very soon.

Sorry for the delay.

Adam Zolis
eyeon Software

CoryC
07-02-2003, 05:32 PM
Thanks Adam,

I never got the email though. Must be lost in hyperspace. I'll send you an email to confirm the address.

I agree with you jr_sunshine. DFX+ is pretty sweet.

comanche
07-05-2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
"Yes, there is a special on the remaining modules that is slated to run for SIGGRAPH, but people can take advantage now."

Oh how I'd like to take advantage of the special offer NOW! Still no response to my email send to the eyeon support, but I'm sure there'll be an answer in my mailbox soon. Can't wait, can't sleep, can't eat, can't breath :)

Cheers,
Andreas

kirk
07-09-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
Hang in there.

Those of you who have e-mailed Eyeon... be patient. I just called the sales rep who helped me.... I called her directly on her mobile phone and she said, "Yes, there is a special on the remaining modules that is slated to run for SIGGRAPH, but people can take advantage now." She also said the reason Eyeon has not advertised it yet is they are finializing the different ways this deal can be aquired.

So, for those who have said in other forums (not anyone here) that I was wrong, be prepared to eat crow.

And it is a sweet deal !!!!!!

Eyeon has added under the "Buying->Current Promotions" the following entry:

805-410LW/410BLW DFX+ 4 with Modules 1 and 4 (NewTek OEM) to DFX+ 4 with Modules $995.00 USD

Is this the SIGGRAPH special price?

TyVole
07-09-2003, 10:10 AM
LOL!

Roundpixel
07-09-2003, 10:47 AM
Well, itīs a big savings on the cost of the remaining modules, so i donīt see why to LOL.

Or am i missing something?....

JC

jr_sunshine
07-09-2003, 11:10 AM
I love it when I'm right.

:D

Yes, this is the special. You get the remaining modules (excluding module 5) for $995.

805-410LW/410BLW DFX+ 4 with Modules 1 and 4 (NewTek OEM) to DFX+ 4 with Modules $995.00 USD

805-412 DFX+ 4 Module 2 - Keying $495.00 USD
805-413 DFX+ 4 Module 3 - Input/Ouput $295.00 USD
805-416 DFX+ 4 Module 6 - Paint $495.00 USD
805-417 DFX+ 4 Module 7 - Particles $495.00 USD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without the deal - 1780
With the deal - 995

You save - 785

I think it is a great deal.

TyVole
07-09-2003, 11:40 AM
For $995 (at MSRP, not street price), you can buy your choice of Combustion, Commotion, or AE Pro 6. And be able to work in film resolution.

Just my opinion. Didn't mean to start a war . . .

jr_sunshine
07-09-2003, 12:28 PM
Yeah. LOL. I'm sure you didn't want to get a response.

As far as film res is concerned, say that is like saying I will get a dumptruck with my After Effects Pro too. Big stinkin deal. If I actually needed film res I would find that a compelling feature. Anyway, If I have the money to deal in film.... come on.

Each of the mentioned products are good and valid purchases for compositing. I decided the best value was with the NewTek deal. I get the next iteration of Lightwave and a top notch compositor for the price of the LW upgrade. And really, you can go with either group and its about the same investment.

Let's do the math :
================
Lightwave 8 (via upgrade): $495
DFX+ (LW8 special): $0
Modules special: $995
= $1490

Lightwave 8 (via upgrade): $495
AE Pro (no special price): $999.00
= $1494

Lightwave 8 (via upgrade): $495
Combustion (no special price): $900.00
= $1395

Lightwave 8 (via upgrade): $495
Commotion (no special price): $999.00
= $1494

Lata,

wacom
07-19-2003, 05:46 PM
Not to add to this so late in the game...but who said that DFX+ wouldn't do "film res". As far as I know it's resolution independent, but the big deal between it and DF is the bit depth export level- not resolution. Am I missing something here? Besides- who in the hell would do film work on just combustion anyway? Wouldn't you want MORE? Like DF, Inferno etc.?

jr_sunshine
07-19-2003, 08:38 PM
Thanks for chiming in. I thought the film argument was a hollow one too. Film bit depth is not a good reason to choose Combustion over DFX+ with a LW upgrade when you will never do film depth or rez for that matter.

lol.

I love DFX+. Best money I've spent recently.