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View Full Version : lightwave and mode should be union or they no future



cg1208
09-24-2007, 09:44 PM
lightwave and mode should be union or they all no future
if they union and with more good animate module (now the animate module is not so good)
they will exceed other 3d soft such as maya and max
it will be the best 3d soft of world

manholoz
09-24-2007, 10:09 PM
You mean modo?
You do know the story, right?
Lets hope this does not start a flame war.

As it is, AFAIK they work together pretty well. Lots of Lightwavers have modo too.
But as to a merger between companies, well, I doubt it.

jin choung
09-24-2007, 11:41 PM
oooh,

i want a 3 way between modo, lightwave and messiah... that would be so hot and naughty. oooh, and then, it turns out that somebody called the cable repair man and along comes mirage wearing nothing but a smile.

jin

p.s. you know the story there too right? geez, it's a wonder that modeler and layout have been able to stay together!

jin choung
09-24-2007, 11:44 PM
ooooh,

actually, i think the op is not referring to MODO... he's referring to MODELER.

yep. can't disagree with that.

jin

Verlon
09-25-2007, 02:03 AM
oooh,

i want a 3 way between modo, lightwave and messiah... that would be so hot and naughty. oooh, and then, it turns out that somebody called the cable repair man and along comes mirage wearing nothing but a smile.

jin


That's so naughty..so cool...its like pr0n, only safe to view from work.


And then Zbrush comes in saying "I am soooo drunk!"

Followed by photoshop in a dress that couldn't be recyled into a bandaid saying "Is this a formal party, cuz I'm not wearing any plugins...."

Verlon
09-25-2007, 02:08 AM
and hey! Cleared the 1000 post mark. Someone promised me a VT1! :devil:

moc
09-25-2007, 03:59 AM
Look like that...
Finally Who's still live?Messxh?Mxdo?LW?
And own just the piece of small cake.?

archijam
09-25-2007, 05:05 AM
This thread is awesome. :)

DogBoy
09-25-2007, 06:28 AM
I think LW and Mode should be onion, then I can fry them into a 3D fricasee.

Ganz lecher!

Bog
09-25-2007, 11:00 AM
LW la mode?

jin choung
09-25-2007, 10:10 PM
A good Hub is a dead Hub.

that should be lw's unofficial (and quite subversive) motto. that is just so heart wrenchingly true....

jin

IMI
09-25-2007, 10:45 PM
Why does everybody hate Hub?

3D Kiwi
09-25-2007, 11:34 PM
If they cant figure out how to put modeling tools in layout,then they should put animation tools into modeler, then you just mdd your scenes out of modeler and load them up into layout and tweak away.....

Cant be that hard all they have to do is put a timeline down the bottom of modeler and assign a short cut to keyframe, sweet all ready to go.

I even have some code they can use

timeline = animate, man im good.

Mike_RB
09-25-2007, 11:37 PM
We've been using modo for exactly this reason (well, others too, but this is a big one). You can model to an animated camera, to match buildings up in perspective, or to use the edge slice tool to cut around objects in the plate. Very handy.

jin choung
09-25-2007, 11:49 PM
If they cant figure out how to put modeling tools in layout,then they should put animation tools into modeler, then you just mdd your scenes out of modeler and load them up into layout and tweak away.....

Cant be that hard all they have to do is put a timeline down the bottom of modeler and assign a short cut to keyframe, sweet all ready to go.

I even have some code they can use

timeline = animate, man im good.


i've thought about what you just said recently too... not really to the point of baking out an mdd inside of modeler...

but the idea of bringing enough of layout into modeler to handle things like setting up complex relationships that are needed in things like a character rig.

they've tried really hard to do some of that already... skelegons, endomorphs, vertex paint....

and in theory, the idea of having your "asset" created in modeler is not bad. it's just that nowadays, and especially with characters, part of the asset is setting up the rig and that's NOT possible with modeler now.

but think about it, if they bring enough of layout into modeler to do all textures (including nodal), setup any and all relationships you need and set all motion plugins and expressions, ik, etc. and have all that embedded into a .lwo file... that would be workable.

and every .lwo is an "instance" or at least a "reference" already in layout so if a character changes down the line, you change your one .lwo and the change is reflected in every .lws it appears in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

neverko,

i agree with you but that's because WE BOTH NEED such interoperability.

not everybody does. and these are the people saying that they don't need an integrated app.

as i said above, the idea of having your asset created in one location and "shot" in another isn't bad...

it's just that with many of the things we need to do, such clean divisions are not possible.

but for those who work with simple stuff, that division of labor may be a comfortable schism.

so at that point, newtek has to decide whether they want to serve the more advanced market or the more simple market....

jin

jin choung
09-26-2007, 12:15 AM
We've been using modo for exactly this reason (well, others too, but this is a big one). You can model to an animated camera, to match buildings up in perspective, or to use the edge slice tool to cut around objects in the plate. Very handy.

right, photogrammetry would be a huge reason for combo too.... easy to do in any app - except lw.

in lw, you make boxes at most and then pray as you switch to layout.

jin

IMI
09-26-2007, 12:20 AM
Well this is probably going to be an unpopular reply, but wouldn't it be easier and less frustrating to use max or Maya or XSI raher than suffer through the aggravation of trying to get Newtek to recreate LightWave in one's own image?

It would seem to me that those who do work for "the more advanced market" ought to be using the more advanced tools.

I can understand being comfortable with LW and not wanting to have to learn something new, and I can understand simply *having to* use it because that's what's used where someone works, but I don't understand the idea behind remaining in an intolerable situation, continually unhappy and banging one's head against the wall wishing things were different, and that those responsible for one's misery would be more accommodating... but they're not.

Me? I'd just change my tools and/or place of employment (or anything else in my life) to get closer to what I want in life, as opposed to trying to get everyone around me to change their vision to suit me, but that's just me. I'm simple. :D

3D Kiwi
09-26-2007, 12:29 AM
That is exactly what i done, got sick of trying to do deformations and other things in lightwave so got a seat of xsi advanced for those operations.

The mixed pipeline works really well, I use Lightwave for what it is good for and XSI for what that is good for. I must say that i find XSI is a much more refined app, or at least it feels that way, were lightwave feels cheap, like it has just been thrown together. Only reason i dont use XSI exclusively is cost of rendering, mental ray nodes just cost to much.

And the thing that worries me is when newtek starts putting modeler tools into layout and improving CA there will be at least 5 versions of LW that are going to be buggy as hell as they sort everything out. 9.3 is like a rock for me at them moment, so newtek, do your catch up but do it right!

IMI
09-26-2007, 12:54 AM
That is exactly what i done, got sick of trying to do deformations and other things in lightwave so got a seat of xsi advanced for those operations.


I'm actually for the idea of LW and Modeler being integrated into one application, although I don't ever have any problems with Hub, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if it never happens.

But I've been reading up on XSI, too, and if and when I get more into more advanced animations and rigging, I'll probably just quietly switch over, if it becomes an issue for me. Not abandon LW, but add XSI.

Somehow doing that would just seem more logical and productive as opposed to craving something that's not being delivered.

3D Kiwi
09-26-2007, 12:57 AM
The key is to treat other apps as plugins

xsi.p
modo.p

there is no such thing as an app that will please everyone so i see this as the only option to have all the tools you want.

jin choung
09-26-2007, 12:59 AM
yup,

it's what i'm doing too. at work, i use maya for rigging, animation, etc. i use modeler for modeling because it's better and faster.

so there's no head banging here.

but there is a desire to see lightwave do well. i don't OWN any other package and no other package is affordable (in its ULTIMATE edition... whatever it's called).

if newtek decides that it's happy to serve the "simpler" market, then so be it. but many express the opinions they do to point lightwave in the direction which we feel it would still be competitive at the high end.

but if it eventually comes down to lightwave just becoming unsuitable - then yah, people will abandon ship rather than fight for something that has been decided will not come. absolutely.

jin

IMI
09-26-2007, 01:23 AM
Well that's the thing - which I mentioned in a different thread, but can't remember which one - do we know that Newtek is even interested in competing with The Big Boys?

Far "simpler" versions of LW have been used for a long time now to make some really good animations, and it still is that way, too. I've seen some amazing things done with LW hypervoxels, for one. maybe not as advanced as maya, but still pretty damn good.

Not to mention the slew of commercials and documentary animations that LW users have created and will continue to create.

There's a market for everything, at every level. It's entirely possible that Newtek is happy with that.
I'd agree that people who simply need more will jump ship if they fail to deliver, but, as I also mentioned once before, what will it do to the pricetag if suddenly LW becomes as capable as maya?

jin choung
09-26-2007, 02:15 AM
it IS entirely possible that newtek is happy with that.

if they EVER come right out and say that "such and such will never ever ever happen", or "we don't plan on getting our CA in line with other high end apps", then i will never bring it up again. actually, some people have requested a roadmap for exactly this reason - tell us where you see yourself in five years and we'll see if this is still something we want to pursue.

the pricetag thing does become an issue. for certain, if the cost of ownership starts becoming similar to maya, then lw has lost a big incentive going its way.

but actually, a bigger issue may come from the other end of the spectrum... that is, if BLENDER (which has proved to have a pretty agile development pace) keeps pushing toward "the big boys", the price pressure on everybody else may have to shift down.

jin

IMI
09-26-2007, 03:39 PM
...actually, some people have requested a roadmap for exactly this reason - tell us where you see yourself in five years and we'll see if this is still something we want to pursue.



jin

I was thinking about that thread as I wrote my last post, was going to mention it, but forgot to.

Without seeking it out, IIRC, there was never anything concrete stated by Newtek. They might not have replied at all - just can't remember now.

But, I do agree with you there, 100%
Many, many of you here have been using LW in your professional work for far longer than I have. You've had alot more experience with CA than I, and therefore are far more likely to know what's "missing", or what you'd like to see changed and/or added.

I'm not so much concerned about it, because the way I am, if I reach a certain point and what I'm using is no longer cutting it, I'll switch to something that does. I already said that, though. ;)

But still, I agree that it would not only be in everyone's interest such as yourself, but also in Newtek's best interest to release a "roadmap".
It would also just outright be a classy thing to do - to show their fans and loyal customers the respect of saying, Here's our Plan...

KevinL
09-26-2007, 07:15 PM
Yawn.... I hate reruns :)

PS not this specific topic, just the death of lightwave gas.... Me go animate!

Kevin

bluerider
09-28-2007, 04:54 PM
I think LW and Mode should be onion, then I can fry them into a 3D fricasee.

Ganz lecher!

PMSL