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aswhitehead
09-21-2007, 12:26 AM
Hi! I have to model something very similar to the large blue object (ribosome) in this image. Placement and look of the "tunnels" is critical. They cannot be "random". How would you guys go about modeling something like this?

I just need to know where to start.

Thanks,
aswhitehead

jin choung
09-21-2007, 12:29 AM
definitely looks like a sculpting kinda task... in order of price starting with free:

blender
hexagon2
silo2
zbrush3
mudbox
modo301

in zb3, i know that there's a way to sculpt out detail and then "crush flat" the front like in that image....

luck.

definitely possible to do it with traditional modeling but it would take longer.

jin

jin choung
09-21-2007, 12:43 AM
oh!

and maybe hypervoxels with displacement map or metaballs

jin

aswhitehead
09-21-2007, 12:57 AM
jin choung,

Thanks for the info. I wish I had time to do this in one of those sculpting programs but unfortunately I am under the gun on this one. I need to get one of those programs and start learning it. I've had my eye on modo but just don't have the time to dedicate to it right now.

aswhitehead

zardoz
09-21-2007, 02:52 AM
well, I would simply model it in modeler...I don't know why you would need zbrush or any of the others for this one.

as a biochemist I understand the problem you're facing with the placement of the tunnels, etc.

If what you need is to recreate this image I would start creating polygons for the places where the ribosome is 'cut' and would simply use edge extrude, bridge etc to make that shape.

meshpig
09-21-2007, 03:47 AM
Metaballs will give you a tangible "object" to think around. Then look at hv's. It would be a PITB to model it unless you are totally insane.


-Screw buying a load of new software too, look for the workaround first!!!

M

meshpig
09-21-2007, 04:00 AM
well, I would simply model it in modeler...I don't know why you would need zbrush or any of the others for this one.

as a biochemist I understand the problem you're facing with the placement of the tunnels, etc.

If what you need is to recreate this image I would start creating polygons for the places where the ribosome is 'cut' and would simply use edge extrude, bridge etc to make that shape.

Zardos

Yes, you do some nice stuff there.

M

Dodgy
09-21-2007, 04:57 AM
Yeah, just box modelling with subpatches and bridge tool to make the tunnels.

SplineGod
09-21-2007, 08:09 AM
I would start with getting the best reference I could find such as a better higher rez image and start placing some simple geometry and bridging it together as Dodgy suggested.

aswhitehead
09-21-2007, 04:02 PM
Thanks guys! Another guy on spinquad suggested doing the tunnels with half pipes and then bridging those together with geometry. As the "tunnels" are the most important part for this particular application it makes sense to start with those.

I have never used the bridge tool (believe it or not) so I am going to have to get some info on that.

aswhitehead

aswhitehead
09-21-2007, 06:37 PM
Dodgy - can you point me in the direction for some info on bridge that would help me with this? I have looked at the 2 videos on newtek ftp (one doing car windows and one doing a ring) but I don't see how I can use what they are doing in my application.

Thanks,
aswhitehead

Dodgy
09-21-2007, 07:13 PM
Well bridge takes two selected groups of polys and links them together by a tunnel. So build your rough shape, then select a couple of polys on each side and hit bridge, and it'll make the tunnels through your object. Turn it into sub patch to get a smoother object.

Surrealist.
09-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Thanks guys! Another guy on spinquad suggested doing the tunnels with half pipes and then bridging those together with geometry. As the "tunnels" are the most important part for this particular application it makes sense to start with those.

I have never used the bridge tool (believe it or not) so I am going to have to get some info on that.

aswhitehead

You can also use the bridge tool to create solid bridges not holes ( example in the manual is pretty good) but I would do it by hand using the extender plus tool and or the old p for polygon after selecting points because the bridge tool requires the same number of polys on each side and also is a little finicky.

othornton
09-22-2007, 12:45 AM
This isn't really related to the ribosome, but for general info the Bridge tool works on edges as well, a bit like snapping over an extended edge... or just using the 'p' poly tool I suppose. Nothing special about this technique, just another way to make polys happen.

-Oliver

Dodgy
09-22-2007, 02:55 AM
You can also use the bridge tool to create solid bridges not holes ( example in the manual is pretty good) but I would do it by hand using the extender plus tool and or the old p for polygon after selecting points because the bridge tool requires the same number of polys on each side and also is a little finicky.

That is not true. The bridge tool will work on any two groups of polygons. It helps if they are a little way apart though, as close together polys might end up with edges linking them which you wouldn't have expected, so the bridge is twisted. If the polys are further apart, this tends to give more common sense results.

Surrealist.
09-22-2007, 12:36 PM
You're right about the polys, my bad. It was late. :)

And the twisting was what I was referring to as far as finicky.

bsales
09-22-2007, 01:55 PM
I did something a while back that was similar. The approach I took was to model the basic geometric shape with a pretty high poly count and then use the airbrush to paint weights for the areas that should be recessed. Use modeler's modify tools with point weights to move in those areas. I started with a plane, but for your example, I'd start with a sphere with the front face flattened. Should be a quick way to accomplish what you need and give nice organic results for the tunnels. Use lots of polys to make it look good.

aswhitehead
09-22-2007, 07:30 PM
Thanks for all the great info!

aswhitehead

lesterfoster
09-23-2007, 03:02 AM
Hi! I have to model something very similar to the large blue object (ribosome) in this image. Placement and look of the "tunnels" is critical. They cannot be "random". How would you guys go about modeling something like this?

I just need to know where to start.

Thanks,
aswhitehead
Is this what you are trying to do? I made this with the boolean subtract tool.

What I did first was to make a box. Then I used the bevel tool to extend a side of the box into all kinds of directions. After I modeled a bunch of tunnels, I subpatched it. Then I used the freeze tool, then I subpached it again and ran the freeze tool again.

This left me with some rather smooth and organic looking tunnels. I then made a box on a different layer and ran the boolean subtract tool, to allow the tunnel object to cut into the box.

aswhitehead
09-23-2007, 09:06 PM
lesterfoster - thats a great technique...very close to what I need if it is controllable.


What I did first was to make a box. Then I used the bevel tool to extend a side of the box into all kinds of directions. After I modeled a bunch of tunnels, I subpatched it. Then I used the freeze tool, then I subpached it again and ran the freeze tool again.

This left me with some rather smooth and organic looking tunnels. I then made a box on a different layer and ran the boolean subtract tool, to allow the tunnel object to cut into the box.

Can you detail this technique a little more? Do you make all of the tunnels by hand? When you say you used the bevel tool to extend a side of the box into all kinds of directions what does that mean? I understand the freezing and subpatching. It looks like the 4th image was used to make the first 3 images with a boolean subtract but I don't understand the process to make image 4.

I'm sorry I am asking so many questions but this is very close to what I need and I want to understand it as much as I can. :)

Thanks,
aswhitehead

lesterfoster
09-24-2007, 02:17 AM
I have made some improvements from the pic,s that I uploaded before. I have been using the bevel tool along with the Bridge tool to connect some of the tunnels together. I think it looks much better now.

As the file that I am using right now is almost 10 meg’s now, I have reduced it to only what is needed to make these objects.




What I did first was to make a box. Then I used the bevel tool to extend a side of the box into all kinds of directions. After I modeled a bunch of tunnels, I subpatched it. Then I used the freeze tool, then I subpached it again and ran the freeze tool again.

This left me with some rather smooth and organic looking tunnels. I then made a box on a different layer and ran the boolean subtract tool, to allow the tunnel object to cut into the box.

aswhitehead
09-24-2007, 02:03 PM
Thanks!!!

aswhitehead

Quantenschaum
09-25-2007, 06:44 PM
start with a box in Modeler... lol

no really... using Extender+ and Bridge is the true way to go. also try to go for a more blocky and simpler geometry for starters, just think tubes'n'walls. you can always subdivide or displace later for that more bio shape.

Quantenschaum
09-25-2007, 06:47 PM
ooops... ignore my last one.
since i'm still a noobie, i completely missed Page 2 here.

sorryyyyyy.