View Full Version : Symmetry in Creation Mode :

09-19-2007, 03:44 AM
Well I've been digging deep into Modeler and customizing my interface so that I can actually 'work' with it. So far it's going great, but I've got a problem with Symmetry. It seems to work when dragging points and doing exctusions etc, but whenever I need to create a point or a line - it won't work.

If I create a primitive, then add a point to an edge - it will work. But if I try to create a point, or indeed line or curve - on it's own - then it just doesn't want to know. Am I missing a setting somewhere?

I want to be able to plot out points and edges on one side of the scene origin, and have it reproduced with symmetry on the other side. I'm guessing maybe creating null objects might be a workaround to this (if that is possible), if not, are there any other workarounds for it?

09-19-2007, 04:34 AM
Unless I am missing something, could you not simply mirror the points or curves that you created?

09-19-2007, 06:31 PM
When you make points, you're right, they don't appear on the other side, I wish it did though. However if you made a point or two on one side and mirrored it and then used extender or another tool these new polys will be made on both sides. You may already know this though.

09-21-2007, 04:52 AM

Yes, I could mirror it - but it takes away the convenience that symmetry mode is supposed to bring. It's annoying as hell when I have to keep mirroring all the time. I wouldn't mind mirror mode if it worked live but it doesn't even do that.


Yup, it's like symmetry will only work if it has some existing geometry to work from; like adding a point to an edge will work because there's already something there, but adding the edge to an empty object in the first place is out of the question.


I'm constantly baffled by how bad symmetry is handled by almost every app' available. Some 'still' don't have it at all, and those that do are often so unreliable that it's pointless having it in the first place. I think it's laughable really, that these software manufacturers are so clever to develop such sophisticated app's, but are unable to do something as simple as implement something which, at the end of the day, simply inverts point positions. What's wrong with these developers? - meaning you NewTek, Maxon, DAZ and whoever else is incapable of producing good, reliable, fully functioning symmetry.

It seems only Pixologic are able to do symmetry that actually 'works', and does so with 'all' of the tools. If that level of efficiency ever get's into LightWave - I'll be a VERY happy LightWaver.

09-21-2007, 05:13 AM
The issue I see would be point order, if you are making 2 points at the same time. The first 2 points aren't such an issue, but subsequent ones will be, things like making a quad would be doable, but might come out twisted.

Not a biggie though

09-21-2007, 06:51 AM
Symmetry toggle from programming point of view is just information that tool should work in symmetry mode, nothing help tool to do it (either 3rd party or built-in LW made by NewTek).. So, some tools are not specially written to support it..

We have written VirtualMirror which does all this dynamically in real-time (any geometry, starting from triangles):
Here is video of this tool in action made by one of NewTek members ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/Tutorials/Vidz/Vmirror.mov

09-21-2007, 07:40 PM
I was going to suggest checking out VirtualMirror. How ever it looks like Sensei has already suggested it.

I use VirtualMirror with EasySpline and LW-Cad all the time for the type of work that I use LW for.

With VirtualMirror. It lets you do what you are asking for hear. But it is virtual. What I do is after finishing modeling what I am modeling with VirtualMirror, is to shut off VirtualMirrorr and then mirror the object. After that, I use LW-Cad,s snap tools to snap the two sides together.

09-21-2007, 08:21 PM
I would also like to add, that with VirtualMirror, you can never brake symmetry. And I have never used the symmetry tool that is included with LW after I invested into VirtualMirror.

09-21-2007, 10:58 PM
Even though it isn't priced very high, I really think that it is borderline theft to put a tool in a program that doesn't really work very well, and then make a "plugin" that does the same thing but exactly the way the first one was supposed to. Its basically an excuse to weazel more money out of people in my opinion.

09-22-2007, 08:05 AM
I am not working for NewTek, so your statement is out of sense.. Proton just recorded video of my tool, he did nothing else than that..

09-23-2007, 05:12 AM

Hey, most of the results I get from the tools are twisted anyway :D


Well, I'm glad I asked about this now because I've got LWCAD, and after the postings here, I've been checking out the TrueArt site. Those Mirror and Spline plugins look pretty damn perfect, and I can see the potential in using it with LWCAD. Only yesterday, I was learning patch modeling and wishing for a 'live' form of patching.

Looks like now I've found it :thumbsup:


I agree with your comment 'only' in an indirect way. I know what you mean by companies pulling a fast one in order to generate more income. I'm working on a web project right now, where the developer of our tools are without doubt, pulling a fast one. I mean to an extent that what they're doing is probably illegal - wouldn't surprise me in the least. Their tool is the most powerful in the business though, and we have no choice but to use it - so what can you do.

I don't see this with Sensei, though. I'm thankful for developers like him. It makes you wonder why NewTek don't hire such people, because they clearly do a better job than some of the ones that 'are' hired. I mean, can you imagine if LightWave had FiberFactory, FPrime, LWCAD, EasySpline, and Virtual Mirror as standard?

Unify the intrerface to suit and wow, that'd be some product :lightwave


Thanks for posting. I'm interested in both VirtualMirror and EasySpline, but I have a few questions first.

1 - Will both of these plugins be updated to work on 64BIT (it's pointless learning them otherwise)?
2 - With EasySpline, do we get to use the Beta until the final arrives?
3 - If we don't get to use the Beta, how long before EasySpline is released?

I know for a fact that these plugins of yours will make modeling a lot better, and allow me to work exactly as I wanted to - so thanks for that. I just hope I hear what I'm wanting to hear if you reply :)

09-23-2007, 06:50 AM
Thanks for posting. I'm interested in both VirtualMirror and EasySpline, but I have a few questions first.

If you will use Reg.Net for buying you can merge couple items with little discount - EasySpline + VirtualMirror will be 100 usd, just mark VM in the list.. https://secure.reg.net/QuickBuy.asp?ProductID=15685
I would suggest you taking also EasySplit http://easysplit.trueart.pl It's our the best seller in the number of copies.. Recently it became the only tool available for LW that support Catmull-Clark Sub-Patches cutting without breaking Edge Weighting.. Check out video here http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71592&highlight=easysplit You won't be able to reproduce it with LW and any other tool-they will just screw up CC's Edge Weighting..

1 - Will both of these plugins be updated to work on 64BIT (it's pointless learning them otherwise)?

Yes, there will be 64 bit version in the near future.. Maybe even in December, and for sure in 2008..

2 - With EasySpline, do we get to use the Beta until the final arrives?
3 - If we don't get to use the Beta, how long before EasySpline is released?

It's not that "other app beta" that crashes every couple minutes when you're using wrong tool.. It's very stable (ask lesterfoster - he is using it everyday for one year or so), it's only beta because we are adding new functionality and fixing little minor things that clients mention and in the same day send them fix.. What could be better than mentioning bug and have fix for it in same day or week (instead of waiting for "real release")?

09-24-2007, 12:00 PM
OK, thank's for the link, Sensei.

I've ordered both VirtualMirror and EasySpline at the link you suggested. I've not bothered with EasySplit though, not yet, not until I get around to learning to use maps - and then I'll probably realize the importance of it. I like to learn stuff in stages by 'type', and at the moment I'm digging into spline/patch modeling.

Anyway, I look forward to playing with these amazing new tools :thumbsup:

09-24-2007, 02:25 PM
Thanks. I am waiting now for e-mail with registration info generated by registering utility sent to you..

09-25-2007, 02:02 AM
Cheers, I sent an attachment to [email protected]

03-20-2010, 06:28 AM
is there a fix for that bug?
the Catmull-Clark + Edge sharpness is a powerful tool and its a shame that it can't be used...
Has Newtek issued a fix for that bug?