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View Full Version : U/B Version of SAS Lite?



Tony3d
09-14-2007, 03:41 AM
I won't be able to switch over to the U/B version of Lightwave till SAS Lite is converted. Is there any idea when that could happen?

Phil
09-14-2007, 03:52 AM
That's up to Worley labs. Given their reputation for testing the hell out of their software before releasing it, it could yet be a while.

I'm hoping to see a UB build of Fiber Factory 4 before the month is out, though. :)

Tony3d
09-16-2007, 06:28 AM
That's up to Worley labs. Given their reputation for testing the hell out of their software before releasing it, it could yet be a while.

I'm hoping to see a UB build of Fiber Factory 4 before the month is out, though. :)

But they will convert the lite version then correct?

Phil
09-17-2007, 04:25 AM
Again, since it's Worley's addon, that's a question for them. It does mean that the marketing material for UB LW is a little misleading, though - UB folks have no fur/hair solution at all in LW....

Tony3d
09-17-2007, 11:00 AM
I just called WorleyLabs to find out if SAS Lite will be converted to U/B, and was told that SAS Lite was sold to Newtek, and that Worley would not be converting it. I called newtek to see their take on this, and they said they have no information. So how are we to produce fur and hair effects on intel Mac's? Maybe Chilton would like to weigh in on this.

Chuck
09-17-2007, 11:34 AM
I just called WorleyLabs to find out if SAS Lite will be converted to U/B, and was told that SAS Lite was sold to Newtek, and that Worley would not be converting it. I called newtek to see their take on this, and they said they have no information. So how are we to produce fur and hair effects on intel Mac's? Maybe Chilton would like to weigh in on this.

Chilton is a programmer, and it would be Management's job to "weigh in" on this. I'll see what I can find out.

Tony3d
09-17-2007, 11:38 AM
Chilton is a programmer, and it would be Management's job to "weigh in" on this. I'll see what I can find out.

Thanks Chuck I would appreaciate it as I'm going to be buying a new 8 core machine soon.

Tony3d
09-18-2007, 12:02 PM
Chuck any word on SAS Lite?

Phil
09-18-2007, 12:50 PM
Hmmm. One wonders why there is a copyright notice for Worley Labs in the about box if NewTek own the code. Good to know, though one might have hoped we'd see the implementation moved forward since 2001.....

Tony3d
09-18-2007, 03:27 PM
Hmmm. One wonders why there is a copyright notice for Worley Labs in the about box if NewTek own the code. Good to know, though one might have hoped we'd see the implementation moved forward since 2001.....

I was told this was handed over very recently. I wonder if Newtek will just write an entirely new plug-in?

jayroth
09-18-2007, 06:18 PM
I was told this was handed over very recently. I wonder if Newtek will just write an entirely new plug-in?

SAS Lite is a Worley Labs product, not a NewTek product. Whoever indicated otherwise was misinformed.

Tony3d
09-18-2007, 08:30 PM
SAS Lite is a Worley Labs product, not a NewTek product. Whoever indicated otherwise was misinformed.

Jay I was told that by Worley's tech support. I'll call them again. Has Newtek arranged a fix with Worley Labs? If not what are we to do for fur and hair?

mlinde
09-19-2007, 10:49 AM
So has anyone asked Worley about SAS compatbility in general then? Whether it's SAS Lite or the full version, a UB would certainly be nice.

Tony3d
09-20-2007, 11:46 AM
So has anyone asked Worley about SAS compatbility in general then? Whether it's SAS Lite or the full version, a UB would certainly be nice.

I just spoke to them again, and now was told that Newtek has the right to distribute SAS Lite, but they did not sell it to Newtek. That's not what they said the first time. I then asked if they had any idea when it might be ready, and they said it was not a high priority. I for one use this plugin a lot. If I move to an Intel Mac I'm pretty much stuck. Has Newtek even called them to arrange anything, or is there a possibility we may not have a fur, and hair solution for Lightwave. After all it did ship free with it for years.

Chuck
09-20-2007, 01:24 PM
I just spoke to them again, and now was told that Newtek has the right to distribute SAS Lite, but they did not sell it to Newtek. That's not what they said the first time. I then asked if they had any idea when it might be ready, and they said it was not a high priority. I for one use this plugin a lot. If I move to an Intel Mac I'm pretty much stuck. Has Newtek even called them to arrange anything, or is there a possibility we may not have a fur, and hair solution for Lightwave. After all it did ship free with it for years.

Management is in communication with Worley Labs regularly, and currently has this matter under review will be discussing options for SASLite for 64-bit and UB.

Tony3d
09-20-2007, 02:28 PM
Management is in communication with Worley Labs regularly, and currently has this matter under review will be discussing options for SASLite for 64-bit and UB.

Thanks Chuck that's good to hear. I may hold off a bit on my 8 core Mac though, till I hear something more concrete.

littlewaves
10-29-2007, 04:26 AM
hmmn, all gone quiet again.

getting really bored of switch to CFM (which NT don't even support on intel mac) every time I want to try out the "advertised" hair/fur feature.

Is it too much to ask for them to just say "yes we will" or "no we won't port saslite to UB"? Even if they can't give a timescale

GATOR
10-29-2007, 06:49 AM
So how are we to produce fur and hair effects on intel Mac's? .

I use 9.2 when I need to put grass/fur into a scene and it works fine. So, there is a solution that works. I don't have any real-world speed comparison because I went from a G4 to an 8-core 3.0 ghz, but I'm more than pleased with the current speed running 9.2 under Rosetta.

When running Activity Monitor under 9.3 on a complex scene, I see all eight processors running, sometimes at full capacity (eight full green bars). When running 9.2 with a Saslite object, I see one bar running at capacity, for whatever that's worth.

I personally couldn't see holding off buying an 8-core just because SasLite doesn't run under UB yet, knowing that you can at least run 9.2 until a solution is figured out for 9.3.

GATOR
10-29-2007, 09:08 AM
Single Furry Benchmark.

I created a low-poly ball (about 12x12 segments) and brought it into LW, using the default settings and the default distant light, no AA in camera but DID turn on shadows and self shadows in SasLite , filled a 640x480 camera view with the ball and rendered it in 9.2 with an 8-core, 4GB RAM Mac Pro. Activity Monitor shows only one processor really working on it.

It took 9.8 seconds a frame.

GATOR
10-29-2007, 09:26 AM
Just in case anyone wants to do a Hairball Render Comparison, the ball was done with 24 sides, 12 segments with a radius of 2x2x2 meters. The cpu was 3.0 ghz.

jwiede
10-30-2007, 03:08 AM
Management is in communication with Worley Labs regularly, and currently has this matter under review will be discussing options for SASLite for 64-bit and UB.So Chuck, any further news on this issue? Over a month has passed without any indications of progress, timeline, etc.

At the very least, wouldn't you agree NT has an obligation to change the LW marketing materials to note that Intel Macs have no supported hair/fur solution?

Manji312
10-30-2007, 02:41 PM
Personally I would prefer that Newtek moved on from Saslite, integrating a complete fur/hair solution, like most of the major competitors do now, that works on all platforms.

Tony3d
10-30-2007, 02:47 PM
Personally I would prefer that Newtek moved on from Saslite, integrating a complete fur/hair solution, like most of the major competitors do now, that works on all platforms.

That's the way it should be!

jwiede
10-30-2007, 11:30 PM
That's the way it should be!Since Chuck already mentioned there are ongoing discussions between NT & Worley, there's not much evidence to support the idea that full-scale integration is coming any time soon.

There are still W2K/P1 systems out there in use. Imagine the uproar if MAXON advertised C4D as "Includes Hair module!" but their hair module only worked on W2K Pentium systems.

If anything, Intel Mac owners are being polite and tolerant with NT about the SasLite situation. Perhaps too much so.

BTW, does anyone recall seeing "Newtek does not support running CFM LW on Intel Macs, only the UB LW is supported." anywhere in the advertising/info when 9.3UB was released? Now?

Haven1000
10-31-2007, 02:34 AM
"Newtek does not support running CFM LW on Intel Macs, only the UB LW is supported."

I heard that for the first time recently... strange as LW has been out in UB form for over 2 months now.

What's changed recently?....... that reminds me that I have to order my copy of Leopard.

littlewaves
10-31-2007, 04:59 AM
I guess it makes most sense if Newtek do as Manji312 suggests and develop their own integrated fur/hair solution.
Obviously that would be great but I doubt we'll see it until version 10.0 (and who knows how long that could take?) which means Intel Mac owners are out in the cold for the foreseeable future unless we want to use the unsupported CFM version and render at snails pace.
I'm taking a wild guess the upgrade to 10.0 won't be free so ultimately we'll have to pay extra for the advertised fur/hair solution when (if!!) it finally comes.

Clearly all this is just speculation on my part but hey, feel free to jump in and correct me Newtek!

Chuck
10-31-2007, 04:19 PM
BTW, does anyone recall seeing "Newtek does not support running CFM LW on Intel Macs, only the UB LW is supported." anywhere in the advertising/info when 9.3UB was released? Now?

We have consistently published that the CFM build required PowerPC Processors. The press release to announce that we had released the UB did not change that requirement, and appropriately just discussed the subject matter at hand, which was that we did now have a version to run on Intel Macs - the UB port.

As for all other published information sources, our current system requirements in all brochures, on the web page, and on the box are still as follows:


System Requirements Web Page (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/system_requirements/)


Macintosh:
Operating System: OS X 10.3.9 Panther
Processor: PowerPC G4 minimum requirement, G5 recommended


This has been the published requirements information for the CFM build during the entire v9 cycle. So, in point of fact, what we have not yet officially published at all in our formal requirements statements is that we do now support Intel Macs via the UB builds. We'll be updating the web statements and the publications and packaging to reflect that, and will of course at that time also specifically list the CFM build and UB build requirements separately, whereas up to this time we have only been listing our CFM build requirements.

Chuck
10-31-2007, 04:31 PM
So Chuck, any further news on this issue? Over a month has passed without any indications of progress, timeline, etc.

I have not been informed of any news for public release on the status of SASLite with regard to UB or Win 64.


At the very least, wouldn't you agree NT has an obligation to change the LW marketing materials to note that Intel Macs have no supported hair/fur solution?

I will pass your comment along to the Marketing team for their review and consideration. Personally, I do agree that our Marketing communications about the products should be as accurate and complete as possible, and from my experience our Marketing staff would agree as well and will no doubt look into addressing this oversight as promptly they can manage.

akrantz
11-17-2007, 10:55 AM
Well, after using LW since version 5, I must admit that the transfer to a UB version has created several hardships for me and I am very seriously considering moving on to another software package. I have been testing Maya and so far it looks great. I use an intel mac and I want support for that platform and frankly Newtek just doesn't seem to be on the ball. Admittedly this isn't entirely Newteks fault as most of my problems are specifically related to plugins that are very slow to be converted to UB and in most cases no reliable information about when or if these plugins will be converted is available. Oh well, just one more customer Newtek will lose to Maya.

littlewaves
11-17-2007, 12:24 PM
and still no asterisk next to Saslite in the feature list saying "Sorry Mac users but you'd better learn to model nice looking hats or stick to Telly Savalas and Yul Brynner"