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Steamthrower
08-27-2007, 10:48 AM
Though most won't want to tell the entire world how much they make, it could be helpful, at least to me, to see how much the average guy (whether employed, freelance, or hobbyist) makes using Lightwave or related 3d programs.

So, here goes...

Steamthrower
08-27-2007, 12:34 PM
I see people vote but do not comment. Truly natural I suppose.

mrpapabeis
08-27-2007, 12:43 PM
Mr. Inigo,

Not sure what kind of comments you are looking for. Except you should read "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud ;)

Steamthrower
08-27-2007, 01:03 PM
Well, I had originally expected another 12-page, 400-comment epic on how poorly people get paid. ;)

And thank you for the link to the McCloud book. It might be a little over my head though.

Andyjaggy
08-27-2007, 02:28 PM
I don't think people want to freely discuss how much money they make, but are willing tto put it down in an anonymous poll. I wish there was a way to sort this according to people who do 3D as their main job and those just making money on the side with it.

kjl
08-27-2007, 02:31 PM
Are we supposed to vote how much we think the average is or how much we personally get paid?

mrpapabeis
08-27-2007, 02:35 PM
Mr. Inigo,

There was the one "Boss/Client" who said (and I do quote), "Aren't there any college kids we can hire that need money for drugs? We should be able to get them cheap". He wasn't joking. And then I met this Korean who was a "Tweener". His pay really sucked.

GP

Steamthrower
08-27-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't think people want to freely discuss how much money they make, but are willing tto put it down in an anonymous poll. I wish there was a way to sort this according to people who do 3D as their main job and those just making money on the side with it.

Right. This is why I think that the $0-$15,000 bracket is so high. These are the hobbyists.

Or then again this might include college students who just do it on the side or freelancers who only use Lightwave as a small portion of their job.


"Aren't there any college kids we can hire that need money for drugs? We should be able to get them cheap".

Pitiful, ain't it?

Sande
08-27-2007, 03:12 PM
Forget this - I wasn't going to comment anything, but my cat sent his regards. Maybe to Utah kitty of death...

Steamthrower
08-27-2007, 03:14 PM
tr666666665tyhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Am I wrong or did a small child just climb into your lap and hit the keyboard a few times?

Sande
08-27-2007, 03:15 PM
Am I wrong or did a small child just climb into your lap and hit the keyboard a few times?
Small kitten, actually. They seem to like warm laptops...

Titus
08-27-2007, 03:19 PM
15 million... pesos.

Verlon
08-27-2007, 10:13 PM
not voting because I do not endeavor to make a living using 3D at this time, but when you consider that 14% of the responses are in the $90k and above range, life isn't too bad.

Maybe I should consider a career change..

voriax
08-27-2007, 10:59 PM
not voting because I do not endeavor to make a living using 3D at this time, but when you consider that 14% of the responses are in the $90k and above range, life isn't too bad.

Maybe I should consider a career change..

He's not just looking at people who make a career out of it, it's just income based on using CG. So if you're a hobbyist and make nothing from it, or just a little bit here and there on the side, it's 0 - 15k.

However there are a lot of different parameters to consider, as AndyJaggy mentioned, it's not easy to get a good idea of fulltime incomes without separating them from the hobbyists/part time/etc.

I think most of us can agree that we don't get paid enough for the jobs we do .. but isnt that a universal sentiment amongst almost all professions? And for those that make 90k+, I'm jealous.

Steamthrower
08-28-2007, 05:30 AM
Well, 3D comes in all categories. We've got people who work for TV stations, and people who work for Sony Imageworks. Naturally the Sony folks are gonna make more. But probably who makes the most are the freelancers who have been in business for a while.

$175,000+ is quite natural if you consider around $100/hour all year. And smart freelancers either charge per hour or charge a durn lot.

I really should have split the poll into hobbyist and career sections. As someone says in their sig, blast the 5-minute edit limit!

Andyjaggy
08-28-2007, 08:21 AM
I think we could be fairly certain 90% of the hobbyists would be in the 0-15k range. That's only like 7.50 an hour :)

Steamthrower
08-28-2007, 08:41 AM
Well, what we can definitely determine is that CG is a good field to be in, salary-wise. Most people as shown by the results make more than the average American (for 2006, the average American made $56,000).

Some even make more than the average doctor. Which, considering that to be a 3D guy you don't have to go through 8 years of college and added years of residencies, that's pretty darn good.

mattclary
08-28-2007, 09:29 AM
I make $0 from CG.

Sure wish I got paid by the post though.... :jester:

Lightwolf
08-28-2007, 09:34 AM
Well, what we can definitely determine is that CG is a good field to be in, salary-wise.
You didn't ask for the salary though, did you? I mean, a few people around here are business owners.... and who knows if this is actually the net profit ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Andyjaggy
08-28-2007, 09:45 AM
Good point.

Steamthrower
08-28-2007, 09:56 AM
Well, if I had the chance I would really restructure the poll. But it's too late for that.

But if you are a small business owner (as I am) you don't really *get* a salary - I counted my net profit.

I am also a student. I started years ago back in high school, and my job has continued into college. That means I'm not full-time. Mess, ain't it?

Sande
08-28-2007, 10:04 AM
Well, what we can definitely determine is that CG is a good field to be in, salary-wise. Most people as shown by the results make more than the average American (for 2006, the average American made $56,000).

Then again, there are probably votes from all around the world and the average income varies a lot. One way to compare how CG-work compares to other fields would be to link to some resource like this (http://www.finfacts.ie/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm) (sums in euros), which shows the gross national income per capita and then vote how much your income is when compared to your national average (like 25%/50%/75%/same/125%/150%/175%/200%.)
That would mean a bit more work from the voters though... :)

JeffrySG
10-23-2007, 09:19 PM
Also, when you say CG do you also include graphic design, video editing, photography? A lot of us may use 3d in part of our jobs but we all don't work for Digital Domain doing 3d CGI 100% all the time. Many jobs out there can use a bit of 3d but include many other things as well...

Steamthrower
10-24-2007, 09:07 AM
You're right, Jeff. I should have basically reworded my entire question to be "What yearly income do you make from multimedia production", and added a few options for "I am a hobbyist" or "I do it only on the side".

meathead
10-24-2007, 09:28 AM
Then again, there are probably votes from all around the world and the average income varies a lot. ... :)

Exactly.

6 figure salaries do not mean much in New York City for example.

I try to use CG as much as possible in my work, but there is a lot of video work, Illustrator/corel graphic work, and a lot of traditional Photoshop airbrushing.

sammael
10-24-2007, 09:36 AM
My category is not in the poll :( I make a loss of around $3000 - $7000 pa
depending on how much hardware and software I buy :)

nomad108
10-24-2007, 10:38 AM
Yes, where is the catagory with negative income? That's where I'm at! I never tried to make anything from CG, but after seeing this poll, I might reconsider! I could live very well in Thailand on what the 36th percentile earns! And I wouldn't have to work field service and spend so much time away from my family. :P

bobakabob
10-24-2007, 03:49 PM
My category is not in the poll :( I make a loss of around $3000 - $7000 pa
depending on how much hardware and software I buy :)

LOL

gerry_g
10-25-2007, 09:44 AM
You didn't ask for the salary though, did you? I mean, a few people around here are business owners.... and who knows if this is actually the net profit

True, as a freelancer you may have a gross income of around $80-85K but you'll pay around $20k+ in tax,allso there's all your hardware costs to cover, a new Mac costs around $8K and Adobe wants $1.6K just for a bloody upgrade if you're UK based , then there's all the incidentals and niceties like medical cover and insurance. In short the thread should have asked what is your NET income so as to make a fairer comparison between employed and self employed artists.

Bog
10-26-2007, 04:05 AM
Given that "Income from CG" is a very wide net covering everyone from hobbyists, through the salaried, to freelancers, consultants and business owners I'd prepare myself for a wiii-iiii-iiiide spread ;)

Steamthrower
10-26-2007, 06:06 AM
Does vBulletin support an excess of 100 poll options? ;)

Mr Rid
10-27-2007, 04:29 AM
2007-
http://animationguild.org/_Contract/wages_pdf/WageSurvey2007.pdf

wage surveys from 96 to 07
http://animationguild.org/_Contract/wages_pdf/

All manner of contracts and guides tallied from Disney, Dreamworks, Warner, etc...
Dig around here-
http://animationguild.org/_Contract/Wage_Survey/

Andyjaggy
10-27-2007, 08:58 AM
I was really surprised to see on that list that modelers made more then animators. I'd always thought it the opposite.

axaboss
10-27-2007, 09:48 AM
I believe in this day and age its best to diversify your talents if you are a freelancer. 3D skills and talent are tough to acquire and carry a premium price. Today's producers and clients will not pay yesterday's prices. They will cut corners and enhance their message with simple compositing effects, fancy on-location camera work, snazzy editing or minimalist motion graphics. 3D graphics, effects and character animations are luxuries they will consider in the very beginning, but not in the end. Most likely a co-producer will convince others out of using 3D animation. There are a million ways to deliver a message and you don't need 3D to do it.

Its good to have another skill set if you are a freelancer.

The accuracy of a 3D animator's annual salary above is questionable until one can determine who owns their own business or "works for the man" or bounces from shop to shop.

In the last 8 years, I have transitioned into the career of a Producer and my 3D animation skill set has given me an advantage. My salary tripled since I made my transition into Producer-dom. Eventually, you will burnout doing 3D. Its a grueling job.

I don't fit into the poll above. I'm sure I earn very little doing 3D compared to my producing gigs.

Bog
10-27-2007, 09:53 AM
Diversification rocks, because it means you never have slack time. No 3D to do? Go do some compositing. No comping? Do some motion graphics. No MG? Go do some edit. No edit? Fire up the games console ;)

axaboss
10-27-2007, 10:03 AM
Gaming is great for stress-relief in between approvals.


Diversification rocks, because it means you never have slack time. No 3D to do? Go do some compositing. No comping? Do some motion graphics. No MG? Go do some edit. No edit? Fire up the games console ;)

Steamthrower
10-27-2007, 01:11 PM
It's also nice to crack open the game directories, find the textures that cover the villians, and Photoshop your stupid client's face onto it. Quite helpful. Better than squeezing gel balls.

JeffrySG
10-28-2007, 11:28 AM
I was really surprised to see on that list that modelers made more then animators. I'd always thought it the opposite.
Well on that list the median was more for the modelers but the high end of the animators was much higher than the high end of the modelers. So animators have the possibility of making much more than a modeler. But there are probably more modelers working in that mid range... :)

Bodger Bowham
10-30-2007, 10:42 AM
Sorry, I chose the wrong option, as I was thinking in GBP, not USD.
I may have destroyed your graph and data collection.