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toby
08-25-2007, 03:22 PM
I haven't done *exacting* tests yet, (exact camera lens and position, texture size, machine specs) but 9.3's speed at blurry reflections has matched VRay's!!!:eek:!!!

Most of my tests were faster, even though I filled the frame more in LW. In fact, at low quality settings (no AA) LW was several times faster.

Know what this means? It means this can be done in LW instead of VRay and stinking Max! No Specularity here, the sun's highlight is blurred reflection, as is everything that's metallic.

You NT guys make me want to :cry:

Chilton
08-25-2007, 04:49 PM
As a diehard Halo junkie, this makes me very happy to hear.

-Chilton
(and diehard is an understatement...)

Captain Obvious
08-25-2007, 05:37 PM
Remind me to try that on tuesday... Due to the current trend of anodized aluminium and brushed stainless steel in architecture, I tend to use a lot of blurry reflcetions.

GoneGuy
08-25-2007, 07:58 PM
I've lived with the surfacing basic of balancing out your diffuse with your reflection, as both are modes of recieving light from a scene, but I'm only just getting into this way of lighting, or at least this way of creating highlights with reflection (Lightwave 3D 8 Texturing)...

so, are using an HDRI image for this scene (and Radiosity)?

(speak slow, not loud, I will get it)

cheers

toby
08-25-2007, 08:27 PM
Yes, an hdr and 2-bounce radiosity.

Now that you bring it up, blurred reflections can be 'diffuse' surfaces if you blur them enough, theoretically we could control both in one channel. I thought for a moment that I could use refl-blur-only on master chief, then I wouldn't need radiosity - but then cg lights become useless, and I'd need layered surfaces for any objects that had both shiny and diffuse properties, like marble.

GoneGuy
08-25-2007, 08:39 PM
Thanks Toby,

Without going too off topic (HEERE we go!... not really...) this kinda ties in with something else I've picked up on which is 'faking' CG lighting? Or other methods of CG lighting.

Flicking through a Lightwave 3D 8 Lighting book (or the Digital Lighting & Rendering book? can't remember) I saw all the levels of lighting rigs to simulate (?) CG lighting - lighting rigs without Area lights (saving on render times).

Still being relatively new to CG I rely on slapping in a coupla Area lights (made possible c/o FPrime), so would you recommend these books or other resources into this? Lightwave 3D 9 Lighting?

toby
08-25-2007, 09:10 PM
uuuhh, dunno, I've only read Digital Lighting & Rendering, and he (Jeremy Birn, works at Pixar) doesn't go into optimizing for speed, it's all non-platform specific. I do recommend his book, if you've read it, read it one more time just to memorize. He gives you a good sense of what's important and what's not.

If you want to learn to do good lighting, I'd recommend books that teach you what good lighting looks like, instead of books that teach you how to do it in a specific program. I've seen a couple "lightwave lighting tutorials" by "professionals" that hardly go any further than "put a light here, another here, turn on raytracing", so I don't have a lot of confidence in those. Study Pixar movies, live action movies, books on stage lighting are helpful too. "Painting with Light" by John Alton is a good book about lighting feature films in the '50s, but you have to skip through all the descriptions of 50's lighting equipment :P Studying color is very important too. Am I boring you yet? :D

GoneGuy
08-25-2007, 09:34 PM
No mate, not boring me, (zzzzzzz)... (kidding)...

I often watch films over switching off to everything else but the staging and lighting (sometimes even turning the sound off! dare I say) PIXAR being just a little bit of fave...

Good point about good lighting as opposed to AppOfChoice lighting, and good point on not necessarily sacrificing quality for render times.

Cheers Toby.

Mr Maze
08-25-2007, 11:56 PM
Nice render Toby.

GoneGuy
08-26-2007, 03:54 AM
er, yeh, sorry Toby, in all that 'me me me', forgot to say, you you you have a lovely render there, great atmosphere.

r

Captain Obvious
08-26-2007, 07:54 AM
Now that you bring it up, blurred reflections can be 'diffuse' surfaces if you blur them enough, theoretically we could control both in one channel. I thought for a moment that I could use refl-blur-only on master chief, then I wouldn't need radiosity - but then cg lights become useless, and I'd need layered surfaces for any objects that had both shiny and diffuse properties, like marble.
There's really no point in doing so, though. A hundred reflection rays won't trace faster than a hundred GI rays. In fact, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if GI was actually faster.

toby
08-26-2007, 12:17 PM
Thanks gentlemen, but as Mark Romanek put it -"it's pretty hard to f*** it up when you're surrounded by good people!" The modeling and texture painting were ace.

toby
08-26-2007, 12:24 PM
There's really no point in doing so, though. A hundred reflection rays won't trace faster than a hundred GI rays. In fact, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if GI was actually faster.
Sure, but it might help if we could eliminate one of the two.

Captain Obvious
08-26-2007, 01:41 PM
Well, not really. If you want both GI and blurred reflections, it's not like you can use just ONE of them to get both the effects.

toby
08-26-2007, 02:05 PM
That's the point - you're faking GI with very diffused reflection. Doing one calculation instead of two; one engine instead of two. I didn't experiment with it very much because I was already working 90hrs a week, but turning off GI did speed it up, even though I was still getting surface colors, environment colors, and even shadows, of a type.

marble_sheep
08-29-2007, 05:56 PM
first off... just wanted to say excellent render, toby. looks like you guys have been busy over there at dd :bowdown:

secondly, i wanted to chime in on my thanks to the lw team for the speed improvements in 9.3 universal binary. scenes absolutely fly on my home macpro. i, too, have noticed that blurry reflections seem much more optimized than before.

alas, my studio is deep in vray land... i would love to put some of these new improvements into further testing.

using Max makes me cry a little on the inside.

toby
08-29-2007, 09:50 PM
dood! where you been? stop by dd, we'd all like to hang out again. John and Charles are still there, Erin just came back, we'll get lunch or drinks

archijam
08-30-2007, 02:20 AM
Nice render, the motion blur is super too ...

j.