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pumeco
08-25-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm having trouble getting SoftBody dynamics to work as demonstrated.

You know that video on the LightWave site that shows a tire coming down against a collision object? Well, I'm trying to learn from it by doing something even simpler. Here's what I'm doing, I'd appreciate it if someone would tell me where I'm going wrong.

1 : Import a flattened cube into modeler.
2 : Import a sphere into modeler.
3 : Place the sphere above the cube with a reasonable space inbetween.
4 : Animate the sphere movement to move downwards so that the bottom passes the surface of the cube.
5 : Add Collision dynamics to the cube.
6 : Add SoftBody dynamics to the sphere.
7 : Set operator to 'None'.
8 : Set Collision Detection to 'Default/surface'.
9 : Calculate.
10 : Horrible mess that seems to only semi-abide by the collision object.

So, what's this noob doing wrong then - eh?

Dodgy
08-25-2007, 02:42 PM
Nothing. The collision has always been well dodgy in softFX. Use ClothFX instead with a non-zero Hold structure. Hold structure tries to push each vertex back to its original position, making things SoftFX/Jelly like. I think softFX calculates the collision after its motion, as opposed to overiding the motion.

pumeco
08-25-2007, 03:28 PM
Cheers, Dodgy.

I'm really p*ssed-off to hear that actually.

Why has it always been "well dodgy", this is supposed to be a professional application and this feature has been a part of it for a few versions now. I hope you're wrong. How on earth does that go down in a production environment? I expect this sort of thing from the lesser apps' but not LightWave.

Out of curiosity, if collisions with SoftBodies are out, what on earth are we supposed to use them for? Not only that, how on earth am I supposed to do a 'boobies against the shower screen' render if SoftBody collisions don't work?

I paid a lot of money for this product because it had the features I wanted.
Hell - they'd better work :devil:

Cageman
08-26-2007, 05:25 AM
Out of curiosity, if collisions with SoftBodies are out, what on earth are we supposed to use them for?

Here (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63740&highlight=Secondary) is one thing you can use it for. :)

pumeco
08-26-2007, 06:24 AM
That's pretty neat, cheers :)

Unfortunately that's way above my head though, just now. I just want to practice by making an object soft and colliding it with a basic collision object. I don't want to start mixing bones with dynamics until I understand bones and dynamics seperately. I don't get it though, if SoftFX is dodgy, how come the guy in the video got his tyre to deform like that? His setup was a lot more complicated than mine in that it was divided into surfaces, and it was even working on a spinning wheel!

I can't understand why I'm not able to do a simple thing like push a ball against the ground and get it to deform properly. I don't want to sound extreme here, but if SoftFX is no good then they bloody well ought to see to it before they start adding more stuff to the program. I've just spent a fortune on LightWave/FiberFactory/FPrime, and it looks as if I'm going to have to sell it if this is the real deal with SoftFX.

Big, big, BIG sigh!

Dodgy
08-26-2007, 07:15 AM
You can get the same effect with clothFX. Just select the Etc>Preset Jelly and tweak the parameters. SoftFX is useful for some things, as you can change its parameters and see how they affect the deformation in real time, but I would like to see the collision sorted too. I guess something to look forward to in the Character animation revamp promised.

Ztreem
08-26-2007, 07:47 AM
I've just spent a fortune on LightWave/FiberFactory/FPrime, and it looks as if I'm going to have to sell it if this is the real deal with SoftFX.

Big, big, BIG sigh!

Don't sell LW just because SoftFX doesn't do what you like it to do. The thing you want to do you can do with ClothFX as Dodgy said. The thing is to not see SoftFX as the soft body solution and ClothFX as the cloth solution, because that's not really the case. ClothFX is so much more than a cloth dynamics engine, it can do cloth, softbody and hardbody dynamics and alot more. Look at clothFX as the dynamics solution for most of your thing that is not hard(even if you can do that as well).

pumeco
08-27-2007, 03:56 AM
Well believe me I'd HATE to sell LightWave, because I thought I'd finally found my ideal app'. But I'm really annoyed with it right now. I appreciate what you're all saying; that SoftFX and ClothFX are not strictly for those purposes. But it irritates the crap outa me to think that I paid all this money for LightWave assuming that it would work properly being a pro-level package. As it turns out, it doesn't.

Of course, I am going to look into ClothFX like you guys are suggesting, and I have every confidence that it'll work. But it doesn't change the fact that they have a demo video of a technique that's working in a situation that's even more complicated than the BASIC one I was trying to achieve. If they can get a spinning tyre to work that good - why on earth can't it cope with a simple sphere against a cube? Either it can do collisions on SoftBodies or it can't, so from the looks of it, it's about time it got fixed if it's not able to do what they're saying it can do.

Without using SoftBodies with collision, can you guys give me an example of why it's existence in the app' is of any use at all? If ClothFX does it all, what's the point of it?

Ztreem
08-27-2007, 04:54 AM
Here's a quick scene I made for you. It's softbody done with ClothFX, I hope it will shed some lights over dynamics in LW. If you play the scene when it's loaded you can see how the ball is animated with keyframes over the box. After you have calculated the dynaimcs you will see the softbody dynamics in action.

Glendalough
08-27-2007, 05:06 AM
Well believe me I'd HATE to sell LightWave, because I thought I'd finally found my ideal app'. But I'm really annoyed with it right now. I appreciate what you're all saying; that SoftFX and ClothFX are not strictly for those purposes. But it irritates the crap outa me to think that I paid all this money for LightWave assuming that it would work properly being a pro-level package. As it turns out, it doesn't.

Of course, I am going to look into ClothFX like you guys are suggesting, and I have every confidence that it'll work. But it doesn't change the fact that they have a demo video of a technique that's working in a situation that's even more complicated than the BASIC one I was trying to achieve. If they can get a spinning tyre to work that good - why on earth can't it cope with a simple sphere against a cube? Either it can do collisions on SoftBodies or it can't, so from the looks of it, it's about time it got fixed if it's not able to do what they're saying it can do.

Without using SoftBodies with collision, can you guys give me an example of why it's existence in the app' is of any use at all? If ClothFX does it all, what's the point of it?

You should go to Spinquad where they have a special section on Dynamics with many example vids and also some files you can download.

Without making things even more difficult, there is the older Motion Designer, which if you had time is also worth investigating. Some people prefer this for certain things. Examples of this with files are also on the web.

Lightwave has really Ultra Bad Documentation as has been remarked elsewhere, so you can get a very distorted and negative view of it's capabilities.

Trying to get on top of understanding the nodes myself at the moment and it is really tedious, tell you everything that is obvious and how powerful and wonderful it can be but there are precious few complete real life working examples.

But go to Spinquad, they are good on Dynamics!

Ztreem
08-27-2007, 12:00 PM
I just had a little fun playing around. :)
Here's a little divX video showing softbody dynamics with clothfx.

pumeco
08-27-2007, 01:56 PM
@Ztreem

That was good of you mate, cheers :)

I've been having a LOT of fun with your scene file today, and indeed, that video shows me the quality I expected to see - so I'm really glad you posted it.

I want to get a good all round tutorial on LightWave, but the problem is knowing which is going to suit me best. On the one hand, I don't wan't something that teaches me the difference between a point and a polygon, but on the other, I don't want something that assumes you understand LightWave already. I'm after something with a simple but fast pace that'll give say two or three examples of one feature, and then further examples of another.

I want something that will look at, say, dynamics, and start by learning you the basics before building higher and higher complexity in the subject.

What books or videos would you recommend to a seasoned 3D nut, but one that does not understand LightWave. In other words, I'm 3D literate - but not LightWave literate.

Best all round book?
Best all round video?

OK, now I'm off to play with my yellow blob for a while :D
(I had it hanging off the edge of a cube earlier).


@Glendalough

Thanks for the pointer, I'll have to check that out. Anything to help with LightWave is going to be a bonus. I've got some MAJOR learning ahead of me I think. Anyway, I've been on SpinQuad before, but can't say I noticed all the dynamics stuff. I'll be raiding through it now though - you bet :thumbsup:

You know what I think the problem with LightWave is don't ya; It's that things are dotted about all over the place. I'm not complaining though, because I can see the reasoning behind it, but the only thing that worries me is that I think it's going to take some really well produced tutorials to make it 'click' if you know what I mean.

Ztreem
08-27-2007, 02:12 PM
@Ztreem

That was good of you mate, cheers :)

I've been having a LOT of fun with your scene file today, and indeed, that video shows me the quality I expected to see - so I'm really glad you posted it.

I want to get a good all round tutorial on LightWave, but the problem is knowing which is going to suit me best. On the one hand, I don't wan't something that teaches me the difference between a point and a polygon, but on the other, I don't want something that assumes you understand LightWave already. I'm after something with a simple but fast pace that'll give say two or three examples of one feature, and then further examples of another.

I want something that will look at, say, dynamics, and start by learning you the basics before building higher and higher complexity in the subject.

What books or videos would you recommend to a seasoned 3D nut, but one that does not understand LightWave. In other words, I'm 3D literate - but not LightWave literate.

Best all round book?
Best all round video?

OK, now I'm off to play with my yellow blob for a while :D
(I had it hanging off the edge of a cube earlier).



You're welcome, I'm glad when I can help out. :thumbsup:
This is why you should use ClothFX instead of SoftFX. :D
A good LW book is 'Inside Lighwave' by Dan Ablan.

ivanze
08-27-2007, 02:25 PM
That video is very cool. Definitely, dynamics in Lightwave are not that bad but they lack proper documentation. Btw those lightwiki tutorials are very nice.

Cageman
08-27-2007, 02:39 PM
I just had a little fun playing around. :)
Here's a little divX video showing softbody dynamics with clothfx.

Haha... that was a really fun video! :) Good job! :)

Ztreem
08-27-2007, 02:42 PM
Thanks!

Glendalough
08-27-2007, 03:27 PM
Yes, must say, Thanks for posting the file! Really interesting, useful and adaptable. (Thousands of uses!)