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Tony3d
08-22-2007, 02:42 PM
Hi Chilton, I have 9.3 U/B running along side my 9.2 in the Newtek folder. I was surprised to see many of my LScripts run in it. My question is how do I disable the hub? I have never trusted it, and I'm afraid to start now.

eblu
08-22-2007, 03:08 PM
change its name.

I suggest: "HubShouldBeThrownInTheWoods"

brian.coates
08-22-2007, 04:21 PM
You could just trash it.

Personally I've had little trouble with the UB Hub. It does exactly what it's supposed to, transparently and without fuss. Even the CFM 9.3 version works MUCH better than before.

Mind you, it still seems reluctant to acknowledge that Layout or Modeller has crashed but apart from that it does exactly what it says on the box.

eblu
08-22-2007, 04:38 PM
brian.coates,
I respect your position. But frankly, I just don't believe you. to get over this hurdle I am assuming you haven't yet traced any of the problems you've had back to the hub yet. but what do I know, somebody out there must be getting exactly what they paid for.

but don't trash it Tony3d, theres no reason. rename it, and Layout and Modeler won't be able to call it up from the depths when you launch them.

Chilton
08-22-2007, 05:12 PM
Hi guys,

The Hub *should* be working better now. It appears there's a problem with Modeler though, and we're actively looking into it now.

-Chilton

Chilton
08-22-2007, 05:14 PM
One other thing--specifics get you a cookie. If you have a specific recipe for something, that especially if it's easy to reproduce, that makes it considerably easier for us to fix.

-Chilton

donski
08-23-2007, 01:44 AM
don't you just put "-0" in the Layout and Modeler command line? That's what I do. No hub.

BazC
08-23-2007, 03:10 AM
don't you just put "-0" in the Layout and Modeler command line? That's what I do. No hub.


No command line in the UB version.

Tony3d
08-23-2007, 03:44 AM
Thnaks Guys!

eblu
08-23-2007, 05:47 AM
chilton,
uhh I don't know how to tell you this, but the only specific thing you must do in order to have Hub related difficulties... is allow the Hub to run. seriously, the Hub is literally Always doing these things. There are no steps to repeat, its automatic, has been for a long time now.
here are some of the current symptoms I've recently traced back to the Hub:
1. Stalls during startup, and when switching applications to or from modeler or layout
2. read only files in modeler or layout (happened yesterday, yes with the UB)
3. Layout and Modeler Not actually staying up to date with each other as changes are made to objects... resulting in lost data, as one or the other writes over the object with an earlier version.
4. crashed Layout or modeler, when you tell them to quit
5. Hub refusing to quit because its lost its reference count of open Apps.
6. lost communication between its clients

what i don't understand is how you guys can have Any trouble reproducing this behavior. Its the defacto behavior of the Hub for me, its Never been reliable since day 1.

brian.coates
08-23-2007, 05:50 AM
brian.coates,
I respect your position. But frankly, I just don't believe you. to get over this hurdle I am assuming you haven't yet traced any of the problems you've had back to the hub yet.
I'm not saying that the Hub is problem-free.

I know from personal experience that having the Hub running makes both Layout and Modeller more unstable, but I switch between the two often enough in my workflow to justify using the it. All I was saying in my earlier post was that the 9.3 Hub works extremely well in comparison to earlier releases.

(BTW, great job Chilton!!! :thumbsup: )

v1u1ant
08-23-2007, 06:31 AM
Isnt the hub driven by AI?



Sorry that doesnt help but i couldnt resist.

i haven't upgraded yet to 9.3 (still on 9.2) cos im in the middle of a project, but i have to agree with eblu that HUB seems to just do whatever it wants whenever it wants. On the rare occasion HUB humours me and i can send an object from modeler over to layout then if i do a change of surface say in Layout and save the object, modeler crashes rather than the HUB updating the object in modeler, which is what i imagine should be the procedure.

It always tells me there is layout or modeler open and that it cant quit untill i shut those down, even though i already have. Always, without fail.

Even so, it doesnt really effect my work flow, i just devise some other workflow. it would be better if it worked properly though for sure.

Now i remember people using LW 5 or even earlier and im sure they used to say that the HUB was the weak part of the LW package, even back then.
But thats by the by i guess.


Anyway all this may be irrelevent now 9.3 is out so sorry if thats the case, im not getting my hopes up though.:)


Oh im on UB Intel Mac BTW

VTA
08-23-2007, 08:49 AM
On to the specific question though.. How do you disable Hub?
-Vincent

v1u1ant
08-23-2007, 08:58 AM
thought that was already answered, eblu mentioned that you should just rename it?

VTA
08-23-2007, 09:29 AM
thought that was already answered, eblu mentioned that you should just rename it?

Ahh, ok thanks. I thought he was being facetious when he wrote "HubShouldBeThrownInTheWoods".

Thanks again.
-Vincent

Largemedium
08-23-2007, 06:20 PM
Maybe this is why a large group of people would like to see Modeler and Layout combined into one robust application. If Newtek were to do this, then there is no need for the hub. Don't know why Newtek isn't considering it. Would make the most sense to merge the programs. It would be cool to not have to switch back and forth and just do it all in one program instead of dealing with two.

Hope this post doesn't start an argument.

Chilton
08-23-2007, 06:38 PM
Hi Largemedium,

For any given software product, there must be at least six features that its users must disagree on, in order for the product to be successful.

I suspect this is one of those features. The Hub is not really a problem for PC users. I'd like the UB version to at least match it in capabilities. So for now, the Mac Hub is not slated for the guillotine. Instead, it is being treated as though it is buggy--fixable, with a known set of desired behaviors.

-Chilton

eblu
08-23-2007, 10:42 PM
Uh... Chilton... Buddy... Umm... I work in a platform Agnostic situation, and uh... the PC Hub is umm... well, it ain't perfect either. I'm not saying its uhhh an abysmal failure or anything, but the natives are restless across the boards from my worms eye view.

I'm not saying we should axe the hub, I am saying the hub is not the solution that it says it is on the box.

and I have to repeat this, I have no idea how you guys don't know this stuff. We're telling you guys every day, actually begging for help. Yeah I know you're relatively new to Lightwave, considering the long history of the Hub, so Please don't take this as an attack. I assure you... the hub is broke, across the boards, and we need help out here in the trenches.

jakef23
08-24-2007, 09:59 AM
Wouldn't it be fantastic if HUB actually worked as intended? Smooth and seamless? Remaining unnoticed in the background as it toiled away? I'm one of those die hards that has resisted disabling it, since it does work sometimes. NT really should put fixing it at or near the top of the To Do List. I would prefer this over adding more bells and whistles. A stable version of HUB is at the very least as important as anything else in terms of workflow/productivity. Assuming the two programs are to remain separated for the foreseeable future.

Make the core rock solid.

Scazzino
08-24-2007, 10:37 AM
I think the main reason the hub has been problematic for so long is that the issues are very difficult to reproduce, which in turn makes them very difficult to fix too... I don't think it's being ignored, just that it has problems that are difficult to isolate... If we can provide any reproducible examples (with exact steps) at all it'll make fixing the hub much easier for them... I'm sure they want it to work as much as we do, let's see if we can help them isolate the problems... send any reports to lw-bugs at newtek.com

eblu
08-24-2007, 11:49 AM
scazzino,
I find none of the problems with the hub, "difficult to reproduce." They are patently unavoidable. I know NT wants the hub to be the best, and they have spent countless hours on the problem. I can't speak to the earnestness of the engineers or the difficulty of the challenge. But the problems i encounter, occur every time I work with the hub. I have no idea why Chilton needs our corrupt config files either. all you need to do in order to get corrupt configs, is run the program for a little while. Everybody routinely runs LW with corrupt configs, its not like they're difficult to generate. I'm baffled by the perception that these are rare occurrences, or that they are difficult to reproduce.

The problem we as users have though, is that we cannot trace the cause to any more level of detail than "the Hub did it", simply because the bug/design flaw/problem comes up so often, that no one behavior can be seen as causing the problem.

Scazzino
08-24-2007, 12:43 PM
The problem we as users have though, is that we cannot trace the cause to any more level of detail than "the Hub did it", simply because the bug/design flaw/problem comes up so often, that no one behavior can be seen as causing the problem.

Right, but that may be why it never gets fixed...

The more 1,2,3 step-by-step examples we can supply, the better chance we have to get them fixed... that's all...

;)

Untn
09-24-2007, 05:04 AM
disabling the hub as following:

1-right click on modeler shortcut
2-at the end of the target feild type -0

this will disable the hub for modeler do so for the layout

akrantz
09-24-2007, 06:27 AM
I disabled the HUB by renaming it to ~hub and Lightwave works 1000 times better then it did. Faster, no stalls, no crashes no application focus problems.

v1u1ant
09-24-2007, 07:30 AM
Hehe, I just learned how to use HUB over the weekend. Ok it doesnt always sync up (although id say about 95% of time it does) if i start modeler or layout at points in time vastly apart from each other or something. However i have found that by using HUB 'properly' (i dont really know what using the HUB properly really means mind) i dont get that message telling me i have applications still open even though i had shut them down. Now HUB disappears quiet merrily without a hint of a complaint about things still being open.


So is HUB just really a user issue/lack of proper documentation issue? Ok i mean there are obviously still issues with HUB itself, and im still not convinced i should really use it on big projects. But are these issues as vast as i first thought they were untill i did a bit of reading and playing with HUB?

eblu
09-24-2007, 08:03 AM
disabling the hub as following:

1-right click on modeler shortcut
2-at the end of the target feild type -0

this will disable the hub for modeler do so for the layout

Untn... uhh... buddy? shortcut? oh I get it! you're lost my friend. This is a MACINTOSH LW forum. shortcuts don't exist here. they're called aliases, and they don't work precisely the same as shortcuts. and whats more, Newtek appears to have done away with the config files in the UB that they developed to take the place of that shortcut thingee you mentioned. Its ok though, we simply rename the hub and it is disabled. thanks though.

eblu
09-24-2007, 08:08 AM
v1u1ant,
uhhh the hub appears to make modeler and layout fail to respond for minutes at a time. this is an acknowledged bug. Chilton knows about it.
can that possibly be taken care of with better documentation? no sir it cannot. the hub may need better documentation, but that is the Least of its problems.

v1u1ant
09-24-2007, 08:41 AM
ah ive been passing between the two all weekend without problem once its synced (syncing was the problem, had to restart a few times to get the two (or is that three?)talking with each other).

Would it make any difference if im telling u i use 9.2 still???



i wasnt saying that HUB didnt have problems eblu dont get me wrong, just that i found working with it a certain way drastically reduced my crash threshold.

aperezg
09-25-2007, 07:07 PM
Maybe this is why a large group of people would like to see Modeler and Layout combined into one robust application. If Newtek were to do this, then there is no need for the hub. Don't know why Newtek isn't considering it. Would make the most sense to merge the programs. It would be cool to not have to switch back and forth and just do it all in one program instead of dealing with two.

Hope this post doesn't start an argument.

I like LW separate in two different app, because each have its own screen, imagine Modeler & Layout in one screen. I need one of 40 inches monitor, in order to have the same size that I have in one of 20 inches.
I hope that Newtek keeps LW in two separate applications.

Maybe exist large group of people would like Modeler & Layout separate.
I am one of this group.



Mac Os 10.4.1 PPC G5

rdolishny
12-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Long ago I made two shortcuts on my desktop "layout" and "layout_nohub" where I added that -0 flag. I forgot how I did it any help please!

rdolishny
12-10-2007, 01:32 PM
disregard by post it was for the windows forum

Nick Hilligoss
12-18-2007, 06:59 PM
Thanks guys! I just renamed the Hub, and it doesn't open - bliss!
It's one of those things that sounds like a great idea, but has caused me nothing but pain.
LW9 on Mac G5 Quad.)
It won't close, and always insists I have LW or Modeller running. I don't, I closed them.
Sometimes it updates, sometimes it doesn't. Often it does when I was only testing something and didn't want to permanently save the object. I much prefer saving in modeler when I'm ready, and replacing object in Layout.

Modeller still can't find the images on an object, even though they are exactly where they were when it was saved in Layout. Even if it's open in Layout, or if it isn't. Looks like I can't blame the hub for that.
But I'm hoping I will have fewer crashes now.

eblu
12-18-2007, 08:38 PM
Nick, do you use a content directory?

the reason I ask is that Lightwave Layout and Modeler Both expect your images to live in "yourContentdirectory"/Images/ if you are keeping them somewhere else, you can get confusion between modeler and layout.