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Tony3d
08-19-2007, 05:39 PM
How is the U/B running on the G5 2.7 tower? Any problems?

avkills
08-20-2007, 05:23 AM
The betas seemed to run pretty good on my G5; certainly a lot faster than the CFM version.

-mark

Tony3d
08-20-2007, 05:30 AM
The betas seemed to run pretty good on my G5; certainly a lot faster than the CFM version.

-mark
Mark, What was faster render times, open GL windows? What specific problems did you have? What is the best way to install?

avkills
08-20-2007, 05:43 AM
Well the UB install is a lot easier than the CFM. Just copy the Lightwave 9.3 folder to the apps folder.

You then need to make a "Lightwave 3D" folder in your preferences and generate a plain text file named "license.key" and punch in your reg number in it and all should be good.

Well the OpenGL is a lot better, but I feel it could still use some major tweaking; but it could be a combo of Apple + Newtek?? Chilton would be better to answer that.

I can't go into specific beta issues (NDA), but I can tell you that rendering is a lot faster on my G5 comparing UB 9.3 vs. CFM 9.0.

There are so many improvements to the way the UB does things that it would be just too impossible to attempt to list them all; but one of the major ones is that the application behaves internally more like a usual Mac application by putting preference files in the right places, supporting multiple users better and stuff like that.

Not to mention Newtek has made a commitment to G5 owners by optimizing for people with PowerPC CPUs as well as the new Intel rigs, which they get some big kudos for. Hopefully when the new version of OS X hits the streets we will see a nifty 64bit version arrive. :D

-mark

Tony3d
08-20-2007, 09:09 AM
Well the UB install is a lot easier than the CFM. Just copy the Lightwave 9.3 folder to the apps folder.

You then need to make a "Lightwave 3D" folder in your preferences and generate a plain text file named "license.key" and punch in your reg number in it and all should be good.

Well the OpenGL is a lot better, but I feel it could still use some major tweaking; but it could be a combo of Apple + Newtek?? Chilton would be better to answer that.

I can't go into specific beta issues (NDA), but I can tell you that rendering is a lot faster on my G5 comparing UB 9.3 vs. CFM 9.0.

There are so many improvements to the way the UB does things that it would be just too impossible to attempt to list them all; but one of the major ones is that the application behaves internally more like a usual Mac application by putting preference files in the right places, supporting multiple users better and stuff like that.

Not to mention Newtek has made a commitment to G5 owners by optimizing for people with PowerPC CPUs as well as the new Intel rigs, which they get some big kudos for. Hopefully when the new version of OS X hits the streets we will see a nifty 64bit version arrive. :D

-mark

Thanks Mark. So is this still a beta or final release?

avkills
08-20-2007, 09:13 AM
No the 9.3 has been released as a final, UB version. It should show up for you in your downloads.

-mark

hdace
08-20-2007, 09:26 AM
I also like it on the G5. I actually kept to the CFM version right up until last week when I finally decided that the UB was good enough to work with.

The main problem I was having was with the hub. It still hiccups regularly but works most of the time now. I'm also concerned about the lack of plugins. Both these issues will fade away hopefully. Except some plugin-wrights might do Intel only Mac stuff. That worries me.

But I agree with Mark, it's way faster and more satisfying to work with.

Tony3d
08-20-2007, 11:02 AM
Thanks Guys. So you think it's at least as stable as 9.2 cfm version correct? I'm actually in the midst of a job right now and will be for the few weeks. If I upgrade there will be no strange things happening to my settings right?

gatz
08-20-2007, 11:31 AM
Can the Hub now (safely) be disabled by command line?

Chilton
08-20-2007, 11:37 AM
Hi,

Gatz, you probably can, but the Hub in the UB is much different than the CFM version. As in, it should work properly now, and no longer cause you any headaches.

-Chilton

hdace
08-20-2007, 11:45 AM
Thanks Guys. So you think it's at least as stable as 9.2 cfm version correct? I'm actually in the midst of a job right now and will be for the few weeks. If I upgrade there will be no strange things happening to my settings right?

I did find that when I switched my renders looked slightly different. Then I realized that UB is just a little less forgiving of mistakes. My mistake was that my model's geometry wasn't quite perfect and the UB render let light through in a place I hadn't seen before in the CFM.

So I just fixed the geometry and that was that. It was good actually. Radiosity and volumetrics rendered slightly differently too but that was mainly because I moved up a couple of builds. I'm finding UB build 1269 is very good. If you find any problems with the settings it's usually just a matter of figuring out what improvement has affected you and accepting that it is actually an improvement and not a platform or bug issue.

I assume you're talking about your project's settings. With regard to general settings, they're kept in your home's library/preferences directory. Make sure you start clean (ie with completely new settings files). If you have some preferences files that date from a dip in the water you took a couple of months ago, make sure you trash them first!!!

Hal

Weepul
08-20-2007, 06:14 PM
Gatz, you probably can, but the Hub in the UB is much different than the CFM version. As in, it should work properly now, and no longer cause you any headaches.
Out of curiosity, as someone who has some commercial CFM-only plugins, is that version of LW being neglected, or are there technical issues behind-the-scenes that I just can't fathom?

Chilton
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Hi,

It's not so much that we're neglecting it, as it is that we have to plan realistically for the future. Here's a comparison of XCode and CodeWarrior. CodeWarrior would be used to build the CFM plug-ins.

CodeWarrior
Costs $$$
Is no longer available
Has no tech support, because no one sells it anymore
Does not build apps that will run at native speed on any Mac currently sold by Apple, and will only run on Intel hardware in emulation, which means a number of odd bugs that cannot be debugged.

XCode
Free
Is included with every copy of the MacOS
Has a slew of developer resources for it, and about a dozen *new* books that cover using it.
Can build a Universal Binary, which would work on any Mac that will run LightWave.

In most cases, the distance between building a plug-in in CodeWarrior and a plug-in in XCode is very, very short.

Also...
I have exactly 34 1/2 hours per day I can spend working on stuff before the reality distortion field breaks. Ditto for the other guys working on LightWave. So we built this really awesome set of XCode examples, and we hope people use them. However, we still have a slew of things that people would like to see in LightWave in the very near future, and if we don't get them done, well, people might complain. ;-)

So we built this version of the CFM for those who needed it, but we really, REALLY would like people to move to the UB ASAP.

-Chilton

Tony3d
08-21-2007, 03:35 AM
Hi,

It's not so much that we're neglecting it, as it is that we have to plan realistically for the future. Here's a comparison of XCode and CodeWarrior. CodeWarrior would be used to build the CFM plug-ins.

CodeWarrior
Costs $$$
Is no longer available
Has no tech support, because no one sells it anymore
Does not build apps that will run at native speed on any Mac currently sold by Apple, and will only run on Intel hardware in emulation, which means a number of odd bugs that cannot be debugged.

XCode
Free
Is included with every copy of the MacOS
Has a slew of developer resources for it, and about a dozen *new* books that cover using it.
Can build a Universal Binary, which would work on any Mac that will run LightWave.

In most cases, the distance between building a plug-in in CodeWarrior and a plug-in in XCode is very, very short.

Also...
I have exactly 34 1/2 hours per day I can spend working on stuff before the reality distortion field breaks. Ditto for the other guys working on LightWave. So we built this really awesome set of XCode examples, and we hope people use them. However, we still have a slew of things that people would like to see in LightWave in the very near future, and if we don't get them done, well, people might complain. ;-)

So we built this version of the CFM for those who needed it, but we really, REALLY would like people to move to the UB ASAP.

-Chilton

Chilton I am on a G5 2.7 gig tower, and would like to make the move to the U/B, but have some reservations. I currently have two jobs I'm working on, and may pick up a third shortly. My concern is if I switch over now will my renderings looks any different with the U/b version? I'm also concerned about the installation. Going from 9.0 to 9.2 was a nightmare. Why can't Newtek just write an installer that replaces the necessary files, and be done with it. What would be the best way to install it? Can't afford to screw anything up at this point. I thought I read somewhere that some settings get changed because the way their handled, that does effect the overall look of the output.

Tony3d
08-21-2007, 03:59 AM
Chilton one more thing. Is there a list of the bug fixes for 9.3? Did they fix the double clicking a scene file to launch a Lightwave scene?

Lightwolf
08-21-2007, 04:01 AM
Why can't Newtek just write an installer that replaces the necessary files, and be done with it.
You install the UB by dragging a folder to your Applications directory...

Cheers,
Mike

Chilton
08-21-2007, 04:17 AM
Hi Tony3D,


Chilton I am on a G5 2.7 gig tower, and would like to make the move to the U/B, but have some reservations. I currently have two jobs I'm working on, and may pick up a third shortly. My concern is if I switch over now will my renderings looks any different with the U/b version? I'm also concerned about the installation. Going from 9.0 to 9.2 was a nightmare. Why can't Newtek just write an installer that replaces the necessary files, and be done with it. What would be the best way to install it? Can't afford to screw anything up at this point. I thought I read somewhere that some settings get changed because the way their handled, that does effect the overall look of the output.

The UB version is built atop the same source as the CFM version, so the two should render the same. The UB version also houses everything internally, so you can install it alongside any older version of LightWave, and they two shouldn't hassle each other. And if it does, you just delete or archive the LightWave3D folder that the UB sits in, and you're back to whatever version you were using before.

-Chilton

Tony3d
08-21-2007, 06:10 AM
Hi Tony3D,



The UB version is built atop the same source as the CFM version, so the two should render the same. The UB version also houses everything internally, so you can install it alongside any older version of LightWave, and they two shouldn't hassle each other. And if it does, you just delete or archive the LightWave3D folder that the UB sits in, and you're back to whatever version you were using before.

-Chilton

Can I eventually just drag Lightwave and Modeler into my current Lightwave folder, and have the old versions replaced? Would this be all there is to it? That way all my surface materials, and any other elements would remain fully intact. When I upgraded from 9.0 to 9.2 I lost all my custom surfaces. Don't ask me how. I have been using Lightwave since version 5 on the Mac. Ever since then I have become very timid about upgrading.

avkills
08-21-2007, 06:13 AM
I think the better idea would be to move the new "Lightwave 3D 9" folder over and then copy your old surfaces over to that folder, maybe renaming the old lightwave folder "CFM Lightwave" or something like that before copying the new one over.

-mark

Lightwolf
08-21-2007, 06:46 AM
Can I eventually just drag Lightwave and Modeler into my current Lightwave folder, and have the old versions replaced? Would this be all there is to it?
No, because that wouldn't upgrade all the other files, shared libraries, plugins etc...
avkills suggestion makes a lot more sense, and also gives you the option to revert back to a previous version just in case.

Cheers,
Mike

Glendalough
08-21-2007, 10:59 AM
Hi Tony3D,



The UB version is built atop the same source as the CFM version, so the two should render the same. The UB version also houses everything internally, so you can install it alongside any older version of LightWave, and they two shouldn't hassle each other. And if it does, you just delete or archive the LightWave3D folder that the UB sits in, and you're back to whatever version you were using before.

-Chilton


Does this mean that the UB version will not overwrite the preferences?

user/name/Library/Preferences

Does the UB keep it's prefs somewhere else?

Tony3d
08-21-2007, 11:09 AM
I just tried the 32 bit version and still have all the same bugs in the global render panel. Are these fixed in the U/B version? If I download the U/b version does this mean I can't run any 3rd party plugins from Flay .com? Is there a list of bug fixes? Other than big fixes I was told by tech support that there is no advantage to running the U/b version on a G5. Is this true?

Chilton
08-21-2007, 04:07 PM
Hi,

I suppose we should have a F.A.Q ;-)


Does this mean that the UB version will not overwrite the preferences?

user/name/Library/Preferences

Does the UB keep it's prefs somewhere else?

The UB keeps them in /User/name/Library/Preferences/LightWave3D/

So yes, it's in a different place than the non-UB versions.

-Chilton

Chilton
08-21-2007, 05:10 PM
Hi,


I just tried the 32 bit version and still have all the same bugs in the global render panel. Are these fixed in the U/B version?

I'm not sure, which bugs are you referring to?



If I download the U/b version does this mean I can't run any 3rd party plugins from Flay .com?

In the UB, that is correct. They'll still work in your older version, which can reside safely alongside the UB.



Is there a list of bug fixes?

Unfortunately, not a really good one. Mainly because vast swaths of the old code were discarded for the UB, along with the bugs they were causing. Of course, we screwed up a few other things along the way, which is why this spent some time in Open Beta before being deemed a releasable product.



Other than big fixes I was told by tech support that there is no advantage to running the U/b version on a G5. Is this true?

That's an excellent question. Aside from the bug fixes, viewport redraws and rendering are both faster as well, though it really depends on the scene and such.

-Chilton

Tony3d
08-22-2007, 04:03 AM
Ok, I downloaded the U/B version and placed it in the Newtek folder along side the CFM version. I then copied my custom presets into the preset folder. I also copied the content folder over. Now, how do I disable the hub, and will I have any problems going between the CFM, and U/B versions as far as loading scene, and object files files into either version?

Phil
08-22-2007, 04:49 AM
In the UB, that is correct. They'll still work in your older version, which can reside safely alongside the UB.

-Chilton

LScripts seem to work, although not Maestro (due to filesystem differences that the developer is working to address when he's not overworked or suffering from some random plague).

wargum
08-22-2007, 10:40 AM
Congratulations Newtek, this is a great release! :)

The .dmg and the new folder icon is beatiful, the alias to /Appliacations is very useful too. I love the translucent menues and for the first time ever I can drap objects in Layout around with 'realtime' redraw, good job!

One question, though: When I open an object in Modeler and want to send it to Layout (not running), nothing happens. Isn't the Hub responsible for opening Layout, then?

Now I patiently wait for 64-bit goodness :thumbsup: :santa:

Glendalough
08-22-2007, 02:27 PM
Hi,

I suppose we should have a F.A.Q ;-)



The UB keeps them in /User/name/Library/Preferences/LightWave3D/

So yes, it's in a different place than the non-UB versions.

-Chilton

This is great! Thanks for the info.

gerry_g
08-22-2007, 06:10 PM
I then copied my custom presets into the preset folder.

Bad idea, when you open the preset shelf you'll find they're still usable but you can no longer name/rename delete or move them to another folder, presets now follow standard privileges convention and are locked, you must now place them in a user specific place i.e. User>Library>Application Support>Lightwave3D>Presets

jakef23
08-24-2007, 10:37 AM
I'm a bit confused. What version should I install on my G5? 9.3 PPC or UB? I have the UB version on my MacBook Pro.

Thanks!

Scazzino
08-24-2007, 10:40 AM
I'm a bit confused. What version should I install on my G5? 9.3 PPC or UB? I have the UB version on my MacBook Pro.

Thanks!

If you don't need any third party PPC plugins, then I'd use the UB version on both systems... If you rely on plugins that are PPC only and not yet ported to UB, then you can use the PPC version (which works on both the PPC or Intel, but it's slower on Intel than the UB of course) until those plugins are ported to the UB...

They'll both run on both PPC and Intel...
The UB will be faster than the PPC on an Intel Mac (and even on a PPC Mac).
The UB can't use older PPC plugins though, so that's really the determining factor.

Tony3d
08-24-2007, 10:43 AM
Bad idea, when you open the preset shelf you'll find they're still usable but you can no longer name/rename delete or move them to another folder, presets now follow standard privileges convention and are locked, you must now place them in a user specific place i.e. User>Library>Application Support>Lightwave3D>Presets

Thanks for the info. Got it right now.