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Deep Image
08-18-2007, 05:35 AM
Maybe I'm alone here but the keyboard commant, cut [option+X] does not work in Modeler 9.3 UB?

2x3Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 5GB DDR

sandbox
08-19-2007, 01:34 PM
Ist cut key command cmd+x? We are having the problem where you cut something and try to paste it nothing will happen.

Deep Image
08-19-2007, 04:20 PM
Ist cut key command cmd+x? We are having the problem where you cut something and try to paste it nothing will happen.

Yes.......... so sorry. Should indeed be cmd+x. And yes same story over here!!!

Chilton
08-19-2007, 04:35 PM
Hi guys,

When you say 'cut something', what exactly are you trying to cut, text? An object?

-Chilton

Deep Image
08-20-2007, 04:35 AM
Hi guys,

When you say 'cut something', what exactly are you trying to cut, text? An object?

-Chilton

Hi Chilton,

Trying to cut objects in one layer and paste them back in. Or pasting it in a new, or other layer! The cutting works but the paste command seems broken! This realy slow's down the workflow.
Get the same results when I fire the command through the [menu bar-edit-paste]

eblu
08-20-2007, 11:53 AM
try copying instead!
Cut appear the be the same as delete.

Haven1000
08-20-2007, 12:55 PM
try copying instead!
Cut appear the be the same as delete.

Yeh, I'm just about getting used to command+c followed by the delete key, not ideal but not a show stopper.

JeffrySG
08-20-2007, 09:52 PM
Yes, this is a BUG as the definition of CUT is to: COPY then DELETE the item.

Paste works fine it is the fact that the CUT option does not copy the item before deleting it.

This is driving me CRAZY and I'm so surprised that it made it into the public release...

eblu
08-21-2007, 08:28 PM
ditto.
I remember making a stink about it a few days ago, and then feeling bad about it.

I don't feel quite so bad anymore.

Newtek, I do it for your own good. Time to start listening. ;)

JeffrySG
08-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Time to start listening. ;)
I know Chilton is well aware now and hopefully they'll be addressing it on the next update.... fingers are crossed!

Otterman
08-27-2007, 08:29 AM
Aahem! Just wanna keep this at the top of the forum cus its a pain in the newtek. Cut and paste! I mean, even my granny can get that right.

Chilton
08-27-2007, 09:24 AM
Fear not, your plight shall not be forgotten!

-Chilton

hdace
08-27-2007, 05:14 PM
Wow, I'm astounded. I know I can get a little short tempered sometimes but this takes the cake. After all, CONTROL + X works fine. Have any of you actually tried that yet?

I know we all prefer to use the standard apple + x but until Chilton gets it sorted it isn't really any skin off my nose.

JeffrySG
08-27-2007, 06:21 PM
^by golly you're right... Control-X does Cut... Command-X just deletes...

I can live with that until the next update comes out... thx for pointing that out.

eblu
08-28-2007, 12:46 PM
boy, Thats dangerous. control+x shouldn't even be IN Mac LW.
what's going on here?

Newtek, please stop reinventing the wheel and adding it on top of another wheel... in all cases. I understand that PCs are a little different, I am not commenting about that. Copy on a mac is ALWAYS Apple+C. Cut on a mac is ALWAYS Apple+X. Paste on a mac is ALWAYS Apple+V. Period, end of story. to do anything else, to include any other short keys or slightly change the behavior in any way, is a BUG.

I am happy for the end users that there is a version of Cut that works (why are there TWO versions of CUT at all? did you simply mess up the menus, or do you actually have two distinct CUT operations coded?) But (control+x == CUT) is a BUG on the mac, especially if you already have Apple+x functionality spec'ed. Now you Have at least 2 bugs to fix.

Chilton
08-28-2007, 12:53 PM
Hi eblu,

The issue here is that LW has always supported the same key combos that the PC version has. Removing support for the PC key combos might get me in trouble (again, like when I changed the windows to be more like Mac app windows, grumble, grumble).

In a recent build, another feature broke this for the normal Mac key combo.

And this will be fixed.

-Chilton

eblu
08-28-2007, 10:03 PM
i know chilton. i know.
I knew there was a justification for the control keys a long time ago, but I am opening up a dialog here. I think you'll find that there is a reasonable fix/change that can be made.

Newtek has chosen to break a cardinal rule about interface design. You simply do not use 2 key commands for anything, and You definetly do not force users to re-learn and remember a basic key command, such as cut or copy, for any reason.

Now I, and many mac users, forgive and even encourage Newtek to do things their own way. This is not one of them. This is counterintuitive, and destroys the benefit of standard user interface elements.

now here is my suggestion.
remove any hypothetical hard links to the PC variants of copy, cut, and paste. Only Hard code the mac variants in Mac LW. But... allow for users to set the PC variants (or whatever) in the menu/shortcut configs.

Chilton, I know you guys are working really hard. Please don't take anything I say as a direct assault. everything I say is intended to help. More often than Not, I have said almost precisely the same thing several years ago, only to be completely ignored. Its my intention to make things better, especially for the new user.

Scazzino
09-01-2007, 07:22 AM
I think a big part of the problem is just due to LW's long haphazard past. Many shortcuts are hard coded in, especially in portions of the program that are actually plugins.

If eventually the entire foundation of how LW deals with the keyboard and shortcuts can be rebuilt from the ground up, then they could remove ALL hard coded shortcuts and let the shortcut editor be able to set ANY AND ALL shortcuts (including those used by plugins). Then the shortcut editor could also allow us to use the Mac command key.

Once such a foundation is in place, then it would be easy to add an additional preset to the shortcut presets for true Mac shortcuts. We should also have the ability then to have an option to switch the command key vs. control key on the Mac so that the command key is used for non-contiguous selections and the control key is used to simulate a right click on a one button mouse. Right now that's backwards for Mac conventions but it's so ingrained throughout LW and plugins that it would be very difficult to change until the underlying code handling keyboard commands and modifiers is thoroughly modernized.

Also, when this underlying code is updated, be sure to check that it works with the various keyboard layouts selectable in the Mac OS X International Input Menu. For instance, I typically use the Dvorak -Qwerty command key layout. This layout uses a dvorak layout for normal typing, but a qwerty layout when the command key is pressed. This is because on a normal Mac keyboard the labels are all in Qwerty, so touch typing in Dvorak is fine since you don't look at the keys, but command key combos still use Qwerty because when doing command key shortucts you typically look at the keyboard rather than do them by touch. In such a case the keys must be read properly from Mac OS X's abstracted key handlers rather than just being grabbed directly by the application or the application wouldn't know that the normal keys are different than the command keys...

noiseboy
09-14-2007, 10:32 AM
In a recent build, another feature broke this for the normal Mac key combo.

And this will be fixed.

-Chilton

Will we have to wait for 9.5 or whatever to get this fix or will it be just another 9.3 build? I just can't get used to using crtl-x..

Colin

Chilton
09-14-2007, 10:46 AM
Hi,

It will likely be a 9.3.x fix.

-Chilton

noiseboy
09-14-2007, 01:28 PM
Hi,

It will likely be a 9.3.x fix.

-Chilton
you're the best Chilton, well except my mum that is...and my wife as she looks over my shoulder.

Col

JeffrySG
09-18-2007, 07:44 AM
...and my wife as she looks over my shoulder.
Col
lol