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View Full Version : fprime UB, where are you?



3dworks
08-11-2007, 03:03 AM
now that the UB mac version is about to be released, see

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-07-07b.html

maybe we should make a bit more noise about requesting an updated fprime version for it. i'm keeping my last G5 mac just for using fprime with it, a situation which is getting more and more uncomfortable. that's the reason why i've started seriously looking for other alternatives (luxology...). unfortunately, if it stays like this, there is no other choice - especially if i consider to have to rely on old hardware and a highly crash prone software (fprime) to run it.

so, it would be great to see any official statement of worley about this.
the last email statement i personally got about an UB version was on june 20, a few weeks ago:


Sorry, we don't have any solid information yet about a UB version. It's definitely something we're interested in but until NewTek ships a release UB version, we won't really know what's possible or what isn't.
-Worley Labs
[email protected]

so you get the picture...

markus

fxgeek
08-11-2007, 03:31 AM
that's the biggest cop-out I've ever heard. Are they trying to tell us that they haven't had access to the beta version like everyone else. Come one Worley,if you're going to fudge your customers at least come up with a plausible excuse.

brian.coates
08-11-2007, 06:23 AM
The fact that Worley's download page (http://www.worley.com/E/downloads.html) specifies CFM OS X format probably answers your question. :thumbsup:

3dworks
08-11-2007, 06:30 AM
The fact that Worley's download page (http://www.worley.com/E/downloads.html) specifies CFM OS X format probably answers your question. :thumbsup:

yes, that has been there for months, afaik... unfortunately it doesn't mean in particular if they are actively developing an UB version ;)

kfinla
08-11-2007, 07:16 AM
Ya I've felt left out in the cold by Worley for awhile now.. since Sasquatch was updated to 1.8 on PC and the Mac version was left at 1.71 a year? ago, probably longer. Same with Frpime.. version 3 PPC dosent work with 9.2 PPC... its unusable when previewing nodes.. pretty sad since I basically paid to upgrade to something that dosent work. I expected an bug fix.. 3.02? many months ago. And yes I've been askin Worley about UB versions of things for a good 8 months.

axaboss
08-11-2007, 11:44 PM
Come on guys. You have to admit Lightwave was never expected to run on a Mac in the first place. So no one jumps quickly to develop a plugin for the Mac.

3dworks
08-12-2007, 04:07 AM
Come on guys. You have to admit Lightwave was never expected to run on a Mac in the first place. So no one jumps quickly to develop a plugin for the Mac.

of course you are kidding, lol

just a few facts: LW runs on mac since 1999 (version 5.6), on OSX (!) since 2002... intel macs are available for around 18 months now, the LW OSX UB was announced nearly one year ago (http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-06f.html) and - as chilton told us - we a have a solid SDK for the UB version for some months now already.

markus

kfinla
08-12-2007, 04:16 AM
I was running LW on OS9 ...

Phil
08-12-2007, 06:44 AM
of course you are kidding, lol

just a few facts: LW runs on mac since 1999 (version 5.6), on OSX (!) since 2002... intel macs are available for around 18 months now, the LW OSX UB was announced nearly one year ago (http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-06f.html) and - as chilton told us - we a have a solid SDK for the UB version for some months now already.

markus

Many 3rd party developers don't know this. NewTek have not formally declared that the UB portion of the SDK is stable; without this, developer support is almost non-existant.

If the SDK has been stable for a long time, NewTek have only themselves to blame for the lack of 3rd party support. It should have been pointed out with flashing lights, sirens and damn big arrows for all developers to be aware of, right on the front page of NewTek's site.

Glendalough
08-12-2007, 07:26 AM
I was running Lightwave on OS 8.6. (What's the earliest?)

People on Macs are more likely to choose LW as only 3 (Is it?) choices (full programs+Blender).

BazC
08-12-2007, 07:47 AM
I was running Lightwave on OS 8.6. (What's the earliest?)

People on Macs are more likely to choose LW as only 3 (Is it?) choices (full programs+Blender).

Only 3 of the big name apps run on OSX, Cinema, Maya and LW but there are others. Pixels3d ,Electric Image and Cheetah3d for instance.

Qexit
08-12-2007, 08:46 AM
that's the biggest cop-out I've ever heard. Are they trying to tell us that they haven't had access to the beta version like everyone else. Come one Worley,if you're going to fudge your customers at least come up with a plausible excuse.If you've been on the Beta program you'll know that it has been a constantly moving target. You don't waste valuable time trying to develop something when the goal posts keep being moved, you wait until there is a fixed final release before throwing any real effort into it. There is a huge difference between stable and fixed :D

axaboss
08-12-2007, 10:07 AM
I've been using LightWave on a Mac since 8.6 myself and find it more unstable than its Windows counterpart. When a big job comes along I use a Windows version of LightWave to get the job done without hiccups. For print work or small animations the Mac version will do fine.

I'm not Peecee avocate. I own several Mac towers and a laptop.

3dworks
08-12-2007, 04:29 PM
Many 3rd party developers don't know this. NewTek have not formally declared that the UB portion of the SDK is stable; without this, developer support is almost non-existant.

If the SDK has been stable for a long time, NewTek have only themselves to blame for the lack of 3rd party support. It should have been pointed out with flashing lights, sirens and damn big arrows for all developers to be aware of, right on the front page of NewTek's site.

good point! on the other side, it is very likely that worley has better contacts and information exchange with the LW development team than an average plugin developer.

but maybe there are more serious issues with the fprime development in general, which are not related to the mac UB port, as the last released version is quite buggy and anyway nearly unusable with complex projects on the mac platform, and there hasn't been any patch for a very long time now. well, of course i always hope an update will contradict this impression very soon...

markus

Burndog
08-12-2007, 07:17 PM
The sad thing it that FPrime 3 should not even be sold to Mac users. I bought the application and "then" found out it does not work as advertised... Not a happy FPrime customer by any means.

paul summers
08-13-2007, 02:37 AM
Yes Not a happy FPrime customer by any means:thumbsdow

Pheidian
08-15-2007, 04:50 AM
I actually stumbled on the same problem here with my mac, running 9.0 when i bought the fprime for this... And naturally it didnt work coz of the rosetta emulation...

Anyway, I contacted worley about this, and said that there were no information in their site that this doesnt work with rosetta emulation (intel mac running mac version of lightwave).

So what they did, is they told me that I was getting the version 3 for free when it comes up on UB... Which is quite great for me, I have nothing to complain about Worley's customer support. Maybe you guys should ask first, shoot after...

3dworks
08-15-2007, 07:08 AM
....

So what they did, is they told me that I was getting the version 3 for free when it comes up on UB... Which is quite great for me, I have nothing to complain about Worley's customer support. Maybe you guys should ask first, shoot after...


well, if you did buy version 3 recently, then i would say this is what i would expect from a serious developer - i've not seen any software until now where you have to pay for the UB version of the same version number...

of course, many developers combined the UB development with a version jump of their software, but this is another story ;)

PerryDS
08-17-2007, 12:06 PM
If my sense is true ... I getting the inkling that many a folks are beginning to shift their system preference from PC to Mac. There are programmers around me who are picking up MacPro laptops because they can run multiple OS. I recently began migrating my 3D work from PC to Mac because of the performance gains with Universal Binary. This is all coming from my exposure, but the table is beginning to shift which will result in a dramatic increase in demand on the Mac side.

Scazzino
08-17-2007, 02:56 PM
I actually stumbled on the same problem here with my mac, running 9.0 when i bought the fprime for this... And naturally it didnt work coz of the rosetta emulation...

Not sure what you mean... it works fine here under Rosetta translation...

echoOut
08-18-2007, 11:00 AM
Sadly, Apple of all companies charged a $100-ish fee to "cross-grade" Final Cut Studio to the UB version last year, just months before v.2 came out. There were a few improvements but it certainly wasn't an upgrade. Kind of lame.


well, if you did buy version 3 recently, then i would say this is what i would expect from a serious developer - i've not seen any software until now where you have to pay for the UB version of the same version number...

of course, many developers combined the UB development with a version jump of their software, but this is another story ;)

fxgeek
08-18-2007, 12:14 PM
Sadly, Apple of all companies charged a $100-ish fee to "cross-grade" Final Cut Studio to the UB version last year, just months before v.2 came out. There were a few improvements but it certainly wasn't an upgrade. Kind of lame.

Slight exaggeration there, it was $49 and considering that includes 8 or so DVD's it's hardly unfair and it was well over a year before finalcut studio 2.0 came out.

kopperdrake
08-18-2007, 12:25 PM
Just to add a voice to the crowd - I WANT UB FPRIME TOO WORLEY!

At the moment, after recently switching from PCs to Macs, the only reason I run LW on Bootcamp is to use FPrime on some jobs, but on the plus side it's really making me realise the beauty of Final Gather, which I'm using more and more for exterior renders where I'd normally have used FPrime.

echoOut
08-19-2007, 10:34 AM
Alright, $50, still lame.


Slight exaggeration there, it was $49 and considering that includes 8 or so DVD's it's hardly unfair and it was well over a year before finalcut studio 2.0 came out.

Largemedium
08-21-2007, 08:22 PM
If my sense is true ... I getting the inkling that many a folks are beginning to shift their system preference from PC to Mac. .... This is all coming from my exposure, but the table is beginning to shift which will result in a dramatic increase in demand on the Mac side.


Yeah, and the only downside to this is, "here come the virus"!

Burndog
08-22-2007, 12:54 PM
Regarding FPrime, I think that the problem lies with some continued bugs in LW.

There is an outstanding bug related to passing information when textures change and also a bug that started in 9.2 related to clearing a scene and subsequent unstable conditions and crashes.

Both are in the LW bug database from my understanding and until these issues are resolved a new version of FPrime will not have any effect in quelling the problems we face on the Mac platform.

What's surprising is how little concern seems to be addressing these bugs when FPrime is such an integral part of LWs better features. Without FPrime, LW renders are at glacial speeds. After trying FPrime and also Modo, even as a hobbiest I personally do not have the free time to contend with the default render speeds. I wish I had more time, but unfortunately life's too short.

Sande
08-22-2007, 02:11 PM
What's surprising is how little concern seems to be addressing these bugs when FPrime is such an integral part of LWs better features. Without FPrime, LW renders are at glacial speeds.
I really like FPrime as a previewer when I'm adjusting my lightning and surfaces, but since 9.2 I have had very little use to FPrime as a renderer. It's redefining nature is nice, but when using radiosity it is FPrime that is at glacial speeds when compared to Final Gathering in 9.2 and 9.3.

Doesn't change the fact that naturally I'd also like to see FPrime UB though...

deg
08-23-2007, 11:52 AM
Wait a sec, so I just go and finally DL my UB 9.3 final(ly) release (?) (as I have no idea why there are 9.3 UB Beta threads here...) to finally be able to work easily in LightWave on my Mac Pro and now friggin' FPrime won't work with it???

Arrrgggh......

deg

3dworks
09-02-2007, 04:27 AM
Regarding FPrime, I think that the problem lies with some continued bugs in LW.

There is an outstanding bug related to passing information when textures change and also a bug that started in 9.2 related to clearing a scene and subsequent unstable conditions and crashes.

Both are in the LW bug database from my understanding and until these issues are resolved a new version of FPrime will not have any effect in quelling the problems we face on the Mac platform.

What's surprising is how little concern seems to be addressing these bugs when FPrime is such an integral part of LWs better features. Without FPrime, LW renders are at glacial speeds. After trying FPrime and also Modo, even as a hobbiest I personally do not have the free time to contend with the default render speeds. I wish I had more time, but unfortunately life's too short.

burndog, this is the reason why i started a new thread here:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=590079

cheers

markus

MLynch
09-04-2007, 08:57 AM
Here's some interesting feedback from Worley Labs regarding a UB compile of FPrime. After upgrading to 9.3 UB I sent Worley a couple of e-mails regarding updates and possible ETAs for the next version of FPrime.

Email #1:
"Yes, Newtek just released the first UB LightWave two weeks ago. It doesn't use the same plugin format as the CFM version of LightWave, so CFM Mac plugins won't work with it.

So the big question is if and when there will be any UB plugins.. but unfortunately there are several issues in this first LightWave version that will make it difficult to release FPrime for it. Newtek's aware of the bugs, and is working on a fix, but we don't know when they'll release any update. The bugs mostly affect FPrime, but we don't have UB versions of any tool ready yet.

Sorry we don't have any immediate news for you. :-( "

E-mail #2:
">Thanks, guys. I appreciate the feedback. "If and when"?
>Does this mean that we may no longer see FPrime for the
>Mac? It would be a shame if NewTek's move forward to keep
>up current Mac technology spelled and end for plugin support
>for that platform.

Yeah. We can't speak for Newtek, so we can't promise when, or even if, the LightWave bugs will be fixed. That's why we can't give any promises about UB versions. Our hope is now that 9.3 is shipping, they'll have time to devote to bugfixing. We wish we knew more, but we really have no clue what Newtek's plans or schedules are.

Thanks!"

kfinla
09-04-2007, 09:07 AM
And I thought Worley not replying to Newtek's emails was scary...

Chilton
09-04-2007, 09:18 AM
Hi guys,

I might have said this before, but in case I did not, we are working on these specific fixes for FPrime.

-Chilton

MLynch
09-05-2007, 12:42 PM
What, exactly, are the bugs that Worley Labs is taking issue with?

LW_Will
09-05-2007, 01:29 PM
Um... apparently there is a texture thing that keeps its state hidden in Layout program... it keeps the state unknown to an outside monitor but passes it along inside the program. A bit of a hack to be sure...

So, Worley and/or his people (hackers extraordinarie), CAN get their program to work on a Windows PC, because of the hackers thing. They don't know the OS X world, so...

Phil
09-05-2007, 02:03 PM
From what I understand, there is a crash bug due to Layout's way of working - particularly if you rip a texture out from under FPrime (the cause of the pause/resume requirement for crash-free FPriming when arsing around under Mac LW). FPrime queries Layout for a non-existant texture and *boom*

Windows allows FPrime to catch the bug, but there is no mechanism available under OS X to do this, so FPrime/Layout collapse in a heap, leading to many upset users.

The proper fix is to stop Layout delivering duff information to plugins like FPrime (by notifying FPrime of texture changes) and thereby avoid FPrime asking dangerous questions that Layout panics over.

dblincoe
08-14-2008, 02:54 PM
Has any one heard any news on the FPrime UB or Newtek fixing the texturing issues that is holding it up? Here we are on the threshold of 9.5 (Windows just released) and the macs are still behind.

Darth Mole
08-15-2008, 01:52 AM
Let's be realistic: Windows is an rewrite/upgrade; Mac is a rewrite/upgrade and move over to new architecture/codebase.If you want to talk about Macs lagging behind, look at ZBrush - we're now a year overdue with another four months to wait!

I've no doubt it's in Worley's interests to get FPrime working on Mac, but he's such a small operation, it'll take some time.

Phil
08-15-2008, 07:55 AM
If you're in the OB for 9.5, and read the changelogs for the new builds, you'll know as much as everyone else outside the core NewTek folks.

There's no scope for discussing it here because UB LW 9.5 remains in beta.

rdxl9
09-04-2008, 10:27 AM
I am too pretty disappointed with Fprime. I jumped on the last upgrade thinking it would solve the many problems I was having. Nope, nothing but crashes. Now I have been waiting for ever for the UB version to come along.

I email the other day and got this reply from Worley:

Hi Scott,

Sorry, there still isn't a UB version of FPrime available.

At this point it a stable UB port of FPrime still requires some more
SDK changes from NewTek, so we're hoping to be able to ship the UB
version of FPrime after the release of the first update to LW 9.5.

We'll post an announcement on our webpage as soon as more
information is available.

-Worley Labs
[email protected]