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TryForce
08-06-2007, 01:01 PM
Hey everybody,

I got a small problem, I rigged up a Character and i actually havnt missed any great point while Weighting.
I selected for Secure the whole mesh and weighted it as "root".

i hope this pic Explains my Problem well, please help me :)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k35/TryForceX/error.jpg

*dont mind the lighter shading at the weighting, it a small photoshop edit, its supposed to have everything in orange*

ercaxus
08-06-2007, 02:26 PM
weird. looks like you did mis something somewhere. can you post the weighted object w/ skelegons or with the scene file ?

TryForce
08-06-2007, 02:40 PM
Indeed, its Wierd.

I still dont get it, tried an animation but meh, it sucks withouthhaving it right,

here is the file, thanks in advance:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/feukr3

ercaxus
08-06-2007, 04:17 PM
bone01 has no weight map, so lightwave uses falloff to determine its influence. If you disable it everything should be ok.
You might want to create non deforming bones (or all the bones) in layout. It's easier to see some things that way.

TryForce
08-06-2007, 09:10 PM
hey ;D
thanks a Bunch, it really fixed everything hehe.

Uhm, what place should be good for non deformable bones? ^^" i dont really know how to do it either.

SplineGod
08-06-2007, 11:44 PM
Is there a reason youre using weight maps? Many times theyre not needed or only in a simple form. :)

If you use weight maps every vertex needs to be assigned to at least one and every bone assigned to at least one or else deactivate those that arent assigned to one.

TryForce
08-07-2007, 01:28 AM
how can i work in another way with lightwave? o_O ... I dont know any other technique in lightwave the weighting... If ther is any other please tell me.

SplineGod
08-07-2007, 01:38 AM
You dont have to use weight maps. LW bones are deformers on their own.
Setup the basic bones, rest them, set the falloff to something like ^128 and test deformations. From there you can determine if you have undesireable deformations. Many times you can fix those with extra hold bones. If you do need weight maps by this time you can usually go with very simple ones. For example both arms can share the same weight map and all bones in both arms can be assigned to that weight map.
Its mainly a work flow thing. Weight maps can easily make a simple process much more complicated. You may find when testing deformations that you dont need weight maps or only in a much simpler form.

If you have to use weight maps for some kind of game engine then thats a different issue. :)

TryForce
08-07-2007, 02:07 AM
nah, its just for test animations.

Although when i simply do the fall off, then i get unwanted Points moving with the bone, or alot of points are missing :-\
Isnt there any way to just select points and assign them to a bone withouth any problems?

SplineGod
08-07-2007, 02:29 AM
Pose the character in modeler so that the parts that are having bone cross influence problems are pulled away from each other. After you add the bones and rest them then pose the character into a more natural stance.
I rig this way whenever I can to keep things simple. Also weight maps tend to slow things down more. I like weight maps but only as a tool of last resort. :)

j__
08-07-2007, 10:21 AM
This looks like a game style character. For this type of thing you can use Vertex paint in Modeler and Use Weight Map only in Layout with some small degree of predictability and going back and forth.

I think weightmaps shouldn't be slower if using Weight Map only, they should be faster.

I'd like to add some context onto what Larry is saying as well:

There's nothing wrong with weight maps, which are highly desirable, highly effective way of controlling deformation and time tested in virtually every animation package.

The problem is not weight maps in general as some sort of defect for masochists. The problem is LW has no means of making their use fully meaningful when it comes to setting up characters' deformation.

You can't really meaningfully paint very specific weights remotely in another application to the one where they will be used in and detached from the particular posed context they will be used in with other settings checked that may affect their behavior in that context.

And furthermore where NewTek, trying to be helpful, have turned on a load of things in the bone panel that affects their use and that only add layers of confusion to the process, effectively almost turning weight maps into local clipping maps for the bones' own 'squidgy power' that ^128 Larry is talking about. And that's how most people work with them.

Really, meaningful weight painting is weight painting on live posed bones, as all other software does. And this is a grave failing of Lightwave, not of weight maps that has been presided over for years, with sadly no hope of it being fixed anytime soon.

What Larry is talking about is an old style workaround that has been around since bones first appeared in LW and pre-weightmaps, where you put your character into an extreme spread eagle pose.

TryForce
08-07-2007, 12:10 PM
hmmm since my lack of english i didnt really get the whole idea of the speech j___ but what i think of is that you mean is that Lightwave isnt all to good for game style character - Rigging/skinning, or?

Overall i somehow managed to get the normal Rigg done, i just want to use IK now, im using tutorials, Im still *peeped* up on the main spot but i will take some time.

Although if there is Anything good in Lightwave for Game Style characte rigging/skinning, please point me to it, I'm doing only Game Style Characters in Lightwave and I got the Book by Albee: LIghtwave 8 Animating, though i really didnt learned to well in it (probabl because i didnt finished reading it)

but it explained to me only how to work with Weights in lightwave.


not really much, but i posed my Model with the cuncurrent Rigg, if you are interested:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nt8grmSOswo

TryForce
08-07-2007, 01:53 PM
Ok now again please help >_<

Im trying to make IK Nulls , or however its called, though i do everything wich is shown in a tutorial Video , wich is supported by the Lightwave Tutorial Site, but it doesnt work.

my Problem:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3404/problem1vf8.jpg

how it should look like actually:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7283/problem2da5.jpg

SplineGod
08-07-2007, 02:21 PM
People create game characters in LW all the time.
If you are exporting the characters to a game engine you probably have to use weight maps.
For general rigging and animating in LW you dont have to use weight maps.
Once you have the bones created you select them all and then hit the r key to rest them.

Some other applications require you to use weight maps with bones.
LW doesnt because the bones are deformers already. This means you can
use a much simpler workflow by not resorting to using weight maps unless you absolutely have to. Weight maps can just as easily make rigging more complicated then it needs to be. Most of the time I get great deformations without having to use them.

I think weight maps are a great tool when used appropriately. The tools for tweaking them in LW work fine for me. Its a workflow thing...test the native bones first, tweak them then see if you need weight maps. :)

j__
08-07-2007, 02:49 PM
I'm not familiar with this book, but make sure all those bones in the arm are set to use IK in the Motion Panel probably just for H and P for now, and just P for the forearm.

Set the last bone in the arm chain, probably the hand to use the Goal you want, set it that use Full Time IK and strength to 100 or something.

finally, if you want to stop the IK solving at a certain point, say the shoulder or whatever then you set Unaffected by IK of descendants in the Motion Panel for that bone.

and Make sure IK is ON

j__
08-07-2007, 03:19 PM
hmmm since my lack of english i didnt really get the whole idea of the speech j___ but what i think of is that you mean is that Lightwave isnt all to good for game style character - Rigging/skinning, or?

Truth be told, LW isn't good for any style of 'skinning' because the tools that pertain to this are just a collection of detached features that are floating around all over the place and not implemented at all in the the proper context where they should be to form a solution.

However this is not so much a problem for game style characters, and things like Vertex Paint may be ok for that.

What I'm basically saying is Weight maps are good, LW's implementation of weight maps for character deformation where they count, is somewhere between severely dreadful to not really implemented at all.

And it's not even a question of Maya or XSI or something, just download Blender and look at how ridiculous Lightwave looks afterwards, which by the way you don't have to use weight maps there either, and you can bake the bone envelope into a weight map at any time, so called 'bake forcefield' that you hear about sometimes.

TryForce
08-08-2007, 12:21 AM
=) hehe thanks, abuot the IK, something has changed but not 100% what i wanted, i will try to finish it though.

and blender, i will give it a try!