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View Full Version : XSI 6.5 changes Features/Pricing Scheme



Chris S. (Fez)
08-06-2007, 08:37 AM
Hair and Cloth are now in Essentials which was bumped up to $2,995:

http://www.softimage.com/press/releases/2007/070806_siggraph07_prod.aspx

"In addition, each SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.5 application delivers specific features designed to meet the needs of target customers:


SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.5 Essentials equips artists with the features they need to create compelling 3D characters and content for games, film and television. The Essentials version now includes Hair & Fur, and Syflex Cloth capabilities. The price for Essentials will increase to $2,995 USMSRP; maintenance remains unchanged at $799 USMSRP, and upgrades remain unchanged at $999 USMSRP. XSI 6.5 Essentials will only be available to new customers and customers on active maintenance.

SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.5 XSI Advanced enables technical directors and studio IT managers to set up and run a creative animation facility with a robust toolset, including everything in the SOFTIMAGE|XSI 6.5 XSI Essentials package, plus Behavior, a crowd and behavioral simulation system, as well as five additional XSI Batch rendering licenses. The price for Advanced will decrease to $4,995 USMSRP and maintenance will decrease to $1333 USMSRP"

alifx
08-06-2007, 08:55 AM
$2,995 :|

Lightwolf
08-06-2007, 09:10 AM
$2,995 :|
Well, Syflex alone is 2200US$...

Cheers,
Mike

Pavlov
08-06-2007, 11:21 AM
so there's no more a cheap version ? i remember one being around 500... has it been dumped ?

Paolo

alifx
08-06-2007, 11:21 AM
I don't know exactly .. but I think it was 1000$ less

cresshead
08-06-2007, 11:38 AM
have they added a left view yet?

toonafish
08-06-2007, 12:08 PM
have they added a left view yet?

Huh ? Just toggle the X axis ( the little "x" @ the top of the view )

richdj
08-06-2007, 12:12 PM
have they added a left view yet?

Doesn't something like middle clicking on the 'x' on the right view make it left?

Rich

edit = toonafish beat me too it....

cresshead
08-06-2007, 12:29 PM
yeah i 'know' about the mirror view of the right viewport...
just amazes me that even in xsi version 6.0 they didn't see a ''need'' for a left viewport dropdown select...bloody lab coated techies runnig the show i tell ya!

being a left handed person...not seeing 'left' as a choice irks me!...just same as no realworld units...and no ies lights...
for me xsi is a 'bag of poo'...just my not so humble self centered opinion!

AbnRanger
08-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Well, this price reduction certainly makes it more appealing. Wonder how Autodesk will respond, regarding Maya Unlimited?
But if Max gets Mudbox (with future texture painting capabilites), and hopefully an Interactive Render like FPrime...then I'm content where I'm at.

richdj
08-06-2007, 06:21 PM
Autodesk haven't wavered before, when others have reduced their purchase cost. So I don't see them doing it now..

cresshead
08-06-2007, 06:32 PM
in reality xsi, houdini, lightwave and so on are fighting for the people who don't go 'autodesk'...so they [the others, not autodesk] need to entice people with price cuts away from a autodesk solution...

I see that newtek is offering a lightwave upgrade with FREE speed edit...it's not available on newtek europe as yet but we from the UK might just be 'allowed' to buy it....i have one seat at version 9 and my other seat stuck at version 8.0....if i can upgrade for $495 [not 495 euros with 19% tax] then i'll be tempted.

GregMalick
08-06-2007, 06:53 PM
actually - it looks like it's only $395 if you go with electronic manual & DownLoad.

It's great that's it's until 10/31 since I can't afford it at the moment.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 07:02 PM
but can 'I' buy it???
will i get a ohh nooo your from the uk... you don't deserve a deal like this!

if newtek europe make it 395 euros plus 19% tax they can 'spin'...we live in an internet age chaps!
seeing as it's a download..

cresshead
08-06-2007, 07:09 PM
395.00 USD=286.047 EUR

so...newtek europe?....wake up!

cresshead
08-06-2007, 07:38 PM
lookslike it's NOT a download but a boxed so shipping version...

BEE VEE...get on it you have a customer waiting!

wacom
08-06-2007, 08:05 PM
It's a good deal...and leaves a lot of room for what they might add to advanced. As anyone knows- XSI particles are the main thing lacking right now. Fingers are crossed that you will not need and ADV. license for the "moondust" upgrade or else I'll have to start selling "moondust" to get it!

Or just get point oven and use lw....

FND is still alive- but doesn't see anything major in the way ess and adv. do during this release.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 08:50 PM
opps sorry going off topic!

yeah Xsi essentials having fur/hair is a major cool deal

BeeVee
08-07-2007, 03:13 AM
We did have a special on LightWave with SpeedEdit and Dan Ablan training I believe, but you missed the offer Steve. It's now LW and LWCAD plus LW Defined training DVD. Use the callback service to contact sales though in case they have any of the previous offer left.

B

achrystie
08-07-2007, 05:36 PM
Base FULL (non sale) prices.
Cinema 4D Studio $3495
3DS Max $3495
Lightwave +Syflex +Sasquatch $3594

XSI Essentials.....$2995

That's not to say you can't make use of Lightwave's internal cloth, or buy Fiberfactory or something instead...those just obviously don't "quite" offer the functionality that XSI or the others do in the package.

The big thing that XSI Essentials "isn't" packaging at that price is of course as many render nodes as Lightwave, C4D, and Max...but of course the unlimited nodes from those three aren't for Mental Ray either...

Certainly ups and downs for all the programs when you compare feature for feature, but overall a pretty competitive pricing outlook at the moment.

Companies competing on packaging deals and pricing = good in my book. :)

Now where is another heavily discounted price on Speededit for "existing" Lightwave 9.2 owners? ;)

ABC

akademus
08-07-2007, 05:40 PM
Can it make 3x5x6 box from the first shot or you still have to make 1x1x1 and then resize it?

Lightwolf
08-08-2007, 12:29 AM
The big thing that XSI Essentials "isn't" packaging at that price is of course as many render nodes as Lightwave, C4D, and Max...but of course the unlimited nodes from those three aren't for Mental Ray either...

<nitpick>the unlimited render nodes for MAx are mental ray as well</nitpick>

Cheers,
Mike

vadermanchild
08-08-2007, 01:45 AM
Base FULL (non sale) prices.
Cinema 4D Studio $3495
3DS Max $3495
Lightwave +Syflex +Sasquatch $3594

XSI Essentials.....$2995

ABC

Interesting.

Never looked at it that way before. XSI has working CA and being generally (or rather arguably) a more serious piece of software makes the price of Lightwave plus appropriate plugins a little alarming.

Digital Hermit
08-08-2007, 03:25 AM
Doesn't something like middle clicking on the 'x' on the right view make it left?

Rich

edit = toonafish beat me too it....


yep :hey:

Celshader
08-08-2007, 03:38 AM
Interesting.

Never looked at it that way before. XSI has working CA and being generally (or rather arguably) a more serious piece of software makes the price of Lightwave plus appropriate plugins a little alarming.

It depends on what you need. If your project does not call for Syflex or Sasquatch, LightWave becomes a much cheaper option.

-+-

Sasquatch came out in 1999, but I did not buy it until 2005, because I had no need for a personal license of Sasquatch until 2005. I used it for one project which paid many times over for the cost of Sasquatch. I have not used Sasquatch since, because I have not needed it.

My husband's currently working on Dogfights (http://www.history.com/minisites/dogfights/) for the History channel. They're not using Syflex or Sasquatch, as far as I know. They do not need those options.

-+-

I learned the hard way to buy only what I need. I have the dusty boxes/packets of LightScape, Ray Dream, Motion Designer 2.0, project:messiah, Lock&Key, Elastic Reality, Aura and 3DS MAX 2.0 to prove it.

Lightwolf
08-08-2007, 03:47 AM
I learned the hard way to buy only what I need. I have the dusty boxes/packets of LightScape, Ray Dream, Motion Designer 2.0, project:messiah, Lock&Key, Elastic Reality, Aura and 3DS MAX 2.0 to prove it.
I know what you mean. Then again, I still tend to use Elastic Reality once a year for paid jobs... and I still love it. Which reminds me, you get that as part of Essentials as well (I just had a look at the workflow of using the compositor to modify image textures used on 3D meshes... while driving the composite using other 3D items... very, very, powerful stuff indeed).

Oh, and not only buy what you need... but also only _when_ you need - and when it is available as well ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Celshader
08-08-2007, 03:54 AM
Oh, and not only buy what you need... but also only _when_ you need - and when it is available as well ;)

That is so true...

archijam
08-08-2007, 04:08 AM
But surely XSI has made a deal with Syflex to be able to include it .. ? Couldn't LW just negotiate a similar deal?

Possibly it's time to use it's 'plugable' nature as an active selling point - ala the new Adobe website .. at least once particles + CA are addressed ..

j.

Sil3
08-08-2007, 06:36 AM
This kind of deals usually involve lots and lots of money, the kind that I dont see NT spending (because they cant or simply because they dont want to)... Not to mention that probably this deal is efficient because more users and studios will buy XSi at 3K with Syflex and Hair than would buy LW for 3K with similar tools, so in the long run it is a great deal not only for users who get more bang for their bucks but also for Softimage and Syflex makers that sell more licenses.

wacom
08-10-2007, 03:18 PM
Can it make 3x5x6 box from the first shot or you still have to make 1x1x1 and then resize it?

Just leave that box ppg open...type "s" for scale...go over to the right and type them in on the SRT panel. How hard is that? Works with a lot of things BTW. Try going back in time in LW and changing those settings later...oh that's right you can't!

Sasquatch is still something that a lot of people in the industry talk about- not because it's so "good" to look at or easy to work with, but because it renders so quickly. The only other thing that seems as fast are some of the renderman based hair solutions like those in 3Delight...which was featured running in XSI at siggraph and using the rendertree and preview window BTW!!! They call it 3Delight for XSI...

Anyway I've seen some TD's wish for Sasquatch in XSI over Fprime if that tells you anything...

cresshead
08-14-2007, 09:28 AM
i've not read ALL the posts in this thread but has anyone mentioned that the Xsi Mod tool has been updated to fall inline with xsi version 6.0 with the added capability of crosswalk and point oven to move character based animation s back over to lightwave to render...also the poly limit you have to work with is 68,000 which should be enough for most un-subd's characters over in xsi to work with....

it's free so worth a look...and doesn't timeout...also has some get you going vids and a mod tool selectable u.i. and qwerty style keys if you want maya style viewport nav.

as you may know i'm not a huge fan of xsi but for people looking for a stop gap way to add rigging/character animation advances to their toolset then have a look at the biped rig and quadroped rig in the modtool...

http://www.softimage.com/products/modtool/

http://www.softimage.com/products/modtool/images/mod_6/thmb_xsi.jpg

and my quick play...and taken over to zbrush to check on the exporter...in zbrush 3.1

http://www.cresshead.com/zbrush/zb3_doodle_basehead_xsi_b.jpg

colkai
08-15-2007, 02:40 AM
So this is a stand alone package with XSI feel but free?
Am I understanding that right?

I see it's limited to 64K polys and 512K maps, but even so, that's a heck of a way to pull people into XSI.

Lightwolf
08-15-2007, 03:14 AM
I see it's limited to 64K polys and 512K maps, but even so, that's a heck of a way to pull people into XSI.
Well, the interesting part is that it ties into game engines... either source or XNA from MS... which basically means you get all the tools to develop or mod (certain) 3D games for free (as long as it isn't commercial).

Cheers,
Mike

colkai
08-15-2007, 05:00 AM
Also mind you an inroad for XSI maybe? Sort of way of teasing folks to their package.
Whatever happened top the MAX game thingy, G-Max or some such?
It certainly is a neat way of getting folks onboard, especially given the fact the world and his wife these days seems mad keen to produce game mods.

Of course, nothing to stop one using it simply to get some experience under their belt of 3D modelling as well I suppose.

Emmanuel
08-15-2007, 05:57 AM
Nice attempt, but nothing new here olks.
Maya had that, Max had that (Gmax), XSI had it already when Half-Life 2 came out, IIRC.Nothing special.Its a cool community tool, for sure, but then, people can also easily get cracks for the software, so whats the point.If it would allow commercial use at least (with the limitations it has), but so, its just a demo version...XSI had a 3.0 experience version that never ran out and was able to load/save.That was way cool back then, but they scrapped it.

PixelDust
08-15-2007, 08:24 AM
Also, the old XSI 3.0 Experience version let you try out the Hair and other Advanced features. However, they dropped that with the later Mod Tool and Experience versions.

Maybe that'll change now that they're adding Hair and Syflex to Essentials.

I find it annoying that some companies' demos don't let you try all the features before buying. (I don't think that's true for :newtek: though)

cresshead
08-15-2007, 08:31 AM
Nice attempt, but nothing new here olks.
Maya had that, Max had that (Gmax), XSI had it already when Half-Life 2 came out, IIRC.Nothing special.Its a cool community tool, for sure, but then, people can also easily get cracks for the software, so whats the point.If it would allow commercial use at least (with the limitations it has), but so, its just a demo version...XSI had a 3.0 experience version that never ran out and was able to load/save.That was way cool back then, but they scrapped it.

interesting reply...the things you missed were:-

1.it's a legal version ie not stolen or cracked by scum bags.
2.gmax is not supported by autodesk and was/is based on 3dsmax 4 not ten...some 6 versions behind...xsi mod tool is the CURRENT version of Xsi.
3.xsi mod tool had all the interop features such as cross talk for maya and max and point oven mdd file based transfer capability.
4.a limit of 68,000 polys is very usable for characters etc.
5.you have full use of all the pre build riggers such as the biped rig ad quadroped rig.
6.it ships with get you going videos
7.it doesn't time out like the demo versions of xsi so gives you plenty of time to get into or simply evaluate xsi commercial purchase without a clock ticking down to the demo version ending.

so for artists who believe that being brought up right and not being a scum bag..this is quite a good opportunity to try out what xsi is all about in regards modelsing and animating with ZERO cost and no ticking clock of the 30day demos...which you could then try out when your much more comfortable with xsi and how it would fit into working alongside lightwave.

having said ALL that the xsi mod tool does feel abit unstable.

cresshead
08-15-2007, 08:41 AM
Also, the old XSI 3.0 Experience version let you try out the Hair and other Advanced features. However, they dropped that with the later Mod Tool and Experience versions.

Maybe that'll change now that they're adding Hair and Syflex to Essentials.

I find it annoying that some companies' demos don't let you try all the features before buying. (I don't think that's true for :newtek: though)

just a quick 'time machine'...when i bought inspire [lightwave lite] there was no demo version...same with when i bought 3dsmax 2.5 and that cost 2600...no demo version...

we forget just how a purchase decision has changed from looking at a pdf/website and a couple of videos to a purchase to what we have now with 30 day demos which are downloadable over the net...we're really having a good time for demo versions compared to the late 90's and early 2000's

PixelDust
08-15-2007, 04:56 PM
Yep, you're right there, Cresshead! I also got into LW via Inspire (because there was no demo of LW, and back then LW was over $2000, I think). We sure are spoiled for choice these days... :thumbsup:

Digital Hermit
08-21-2007, 06:15 PM
It's a good deal...and leaves a lot of room for what they might add to advanced. As anyone knows- XSI particles are the main thing lacking right now. Fingers are crossed that you will not need and ADV. license for the "moondust" upgrade or else I'll have to start selling "moondust" to get it!

Or just get point oven and use lw....

FND is still alive- but doesn't see anything major in the way ess and adv. do during this release.


I almost overlooked your XSI "moondust" comment, wacom- I have not heard anything about "moondust" so I did a google and some guy who attended Siggraph... Well my response after reading...

"Ohohoh... moondust... "<homer drooling sound>


MoonDust will do for particles, custom ops, and tools, etc what the render tree has done for custom look development. That is, open it up to many more people and increase the rate of development.

If anyone remembers life before the render tree, there were vey few people developing custom mi shaders, and certainly no pure artists toying around with code. In the si3d MR implementation, the typical artist couldn't even blend a phong shader with a blinn specular. There was no creative playground as the only solutions required pure scripting and programming. This is where we are today with respect to particles and deformations. The typical artist can do a few functional things, but there are only so many devices on this creative playground.

Example, how many different requests have we seen for the shrinkwrap operator? Falloffs, offsets, weight painting, etc. Some people were trying to extend its functionality because they need the *mouse under the carpet effect.* Others want to experiment with muscle systems, while others had unique problems to solve, etc. If Soft were to try to grant all these requests, the shrinkwrap op PPG would consume the entire screen, and it still wouldn't be enough to cover the creative requests and needs from the user base.

MoonDust, will be the answer.

From just one example from the user group, one can see the implications of this paradigm shift for the XSI user base. Ronald had a MoonDust graph that started out as a shrinkwrap compound node. By wiring that into another scene object, and connecting a weight map control, he was on his way to building a simple muscle system. He was basically following the recipe that many of us have talked about when requesting new features to be added to the shrinkwrap op. However, in the process, he discovered some unexpected collision problems that none of us had included in our recipe. Imagine if Soft had gone and added a few features to Shrinkwrap, and we still couldn't get our imagined muscle systems to work. How disappointing would that be? But using the MoonDust graph, he was able to wire in a solution to the unforeseen problem, and his simple muscle system was working very nicely!

Imagine what will happen for the XSI community when MoonDust is released to the public. Within 3 months, we will see a dozen muscle systems, each using a different strategy. Extrapolate that for other character systems, for flesh effects, particle effects, custom forces, custom tools, crowd tools, flocking, animation tools, etc.

Imagine where we will be after a year.

------------------------------------
E qualche info sulle demo ma purtroppo nonricordo di chi e` il post


Scenes demoed at the User Group for MoonDust

1)rbd paint roller rolling down a deformed slope dropping colored particles onto the surface as it rolled over.. a second roller then came along and rolled over the paint, picking up the particles as it passed over them..

2) fire.. creating fire using particles and rbds.. a match that was lit was passed over some logs that then caught on fire.. based on the position of the flame.. controls exposed for thickness, turbulence etc.

3)particle voxelized RBD xsi man.. based off of a weight map.. no influence meant particles dropped right away, while the more influence in the map caused particles to wait before falling.. noo flicker or jitter.. RBD'd particles were shaded with AO

4)footprints... a foot steps in the sand causing a foot impression to be left behind. Ronald also showed a null controller he'd hooked up to that caused the footprints to gradually disappear, like waves lapping up on a beach and eroding the footprints..

5) crowd simulation. A stream of intelligent particles flow through an obstacle course, particles make decision based on intelligence(rays cast in all directions from each particles position, the ray that gets closest to the goal becomes the path that the particles take.. Ronald ramped this up to 4000 or so actors and was still getting very good feedback.. particles were rendered as instanced soldiers.

6) muscle sim.. simple arm flexing example with underlying muscle object driven by an f-curve node that could have its profile updated on the fly to change the muscle shape. controls for changing muscle height, thickness, compresison, min, max etc.. uses a raycasting / shrinwrap type node to have the high res mesh follow the underlying muscle..

there were about 10 in all.. can't remember more off the top of my head.. anyone else want to chime in... will post more when I have recall..
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