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View Full Version : Autodesk buy rest of the world



scratch33
08-06-2007, 07:06 AM
Autodesk buy mudbox:twak: :thumbsdow :cursin: :compbeati :2guns: :censored:

http://www.mudbox3d.com/

MooseDog
08-06-2007, 07:17 AM
good-bye innovation, good-bye customer service. a shame really:cry:

BazC
08-06-2007, 07:25 AM
Goodbye Macintosh port! :(

colkai
08-06-2007, 07:38 AM
So how long before Autodesk sets it's sights on Newtek or Luxology then eh? :p

LW3D
08-06-2007, 07:51 AM
it is really sad news for us. I like Mudbox3D...

Chris S. (Fez)
08-06-2007, 08:22 AM
Great news for me. This means more interoperability with my main program...though I would prefer they simply integrate the tech directly into Max.

Mudbox 1.0 is awesome for a 1.0.

Glendalough
08-06-2007, 08:28 AM
LOL... this is amusing and sad at the same time. I guess it'll be killed as a stand alone product and rolled into 3ds Max (or Maya) in one of the next releases. I guess Skymatter didn't do too hot as a company, especially not after the launch of Zbrush 3. Autodesk will want whatever technology Skymatter has for use in their core apllications, of course.

I'm glad I went with Zbrush 3, it's one of the most innovative pieces of graphics software to surface in the last decade. In my oppinion, Mudbox was a clone that couldn't quite reach the potential of it's inspiration, though it was obviously quite a fine sculpting package in it's own right.

Good to know that Zbrush is this good, cause won't be going near MudB. now.

I don't agree at all about Mudbox being a clone though, you could rotate the model in the viewport, presume ZB has this now?

It was also super easy to use and had incredible simplicity and power. It was also incredibly over priced, should have been about 200-300 dollars. I think this is why they failed. With a bigger user base they could have really taken off.

alifx
08-06-2007, 08:57 AM
what is the next deal for autodesk .. >> newtek maybe? :p

OOZZEE
08-06-2007, 09:13 AM
major disappointment - I liked the software and was looking forward to future releases!!

I hope newtek will never sell out... but if they do, they will probably only have to deal with the angry mob after !!

Red_Oddity
08-06-2007, 09:18 AM
I wonder if they'll do the same for what they did with MotionBuilder...
When was the last update for that software? 1.5 years ago?

Pavlov
08-06-2007, 09:38 AM
(Warning: pure speculation) - i dont understand why all you guy see a *potential* Newtek acquirement by bigger fishes as negative. Beside emotive and ideologic forces behind this pov, being part of a larger world means more money, faster development, more integration with industry mainstream tools.
Look at Cinema after Maxon did the right move - merging with a large CAD company.


Paolo

Lightwolf
08-06-2007, 09:40 AM
(Warning: pure speculation) - i dont understand why all you guy see a *potential* Newtek acquirement by bigger fishes as negative.
...
Look at Cinema after Maxon did the right move - merging with a large CAD company.

There is a huge difference between being aquired and merging though.
And if you look at the history of products that got aquired... it hardly ever turned out to improve things for customers.

Cheers,
Mike

cresshead
08-06-2007, 09:43 AM
LOL!!

i predicted this only yesterday over on cgtalk!

...am i the prophet of doom?

Exception
08-06-2007, 09:57 AM
(Warning: pure speculation) - i dont understand why all you guy see a *potential* Newtek acquirement by bigger fishes as negative. Beside emotive and ideologic forces behind this pov, being part of a larger world means more money, faster development, more integration with industry mainstream tools.

Um, like when Autodesk aquired LightScape?
That went well, didn't it?

In any given corporation there's usually no more than a handful of creative decisionmakers. The rest performs as corporate footfolk. So, a smaller company does not have less creative power than a large one, just less footfolk. Also, at about 80 employees the maximum efficiency of a corporation is met. Add many more and the efficiency of all will go down the drain with meetings, administration, larger buildings, muddy organisation, unclear financial flows and so on.
Smaller companies like Newtek tend to move faster, more efficient and more creative than larger ones. Have you ever used Autocad? Has not seen any useable functionality or enhancement added since version 12. That's 15 years ago. It just got bigger, convoluted, slower, more expensive and buggier.

Also, a larger corporation does not mean the development team will grow. There will still be a limited amount of people assigned to any given project. My bet is that the people assigned to maya now are far less than Alias had assigned to it. Bigger company: poorer decisions. Maya is not as important to Autodesk as it was to Alias.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 10:20 AM
not to sound all negative but i wouldn't class newtek's lightwave development is 'fast'...it's getting there but darn it's slow to see the light of day for many given things over in other apps [instancing, groups, modeling/animating]

and lightscape took ages to be intergrated into max but it's pretty much ''there'' in max 8 and max 9.

titane357
08-06-2007, 10:26 AM
autodesk get mudbox, maya have Fprime render like (holomatix) hope NT make AddcustomNull2 command for siggraph. :D

cresshead
08-06-2007, 10:28 AM
YEAH...i hear ya!:hey:

lightwave needs to show some 'WOW' otherwise they might be better off not going!:D

Pavlov
08-06-2007, 11:09 AM
Lightwolf, Tom - sure i've not Autodesk model in mind. I should have spoked of merging more than acquiring, but concept is the same: i'd be happy is some movement happen in the direction of enlarging NT's business horizonts, since it can improve LW's development. Imho there's a large part of what we hope for LW, which is pretty down to money.

Paolo

theo
08-06-2007, 11:54 AM
There is a huge difference between being aquired and merging though.
And if you look at the history of products that got aquired... it hardly ever turned out to improve things for customers.

Cheers,
Mike

You are right Lightwolf, no surprise there.

Most acquisitions end up as market purges that are designed to manage competitive forces or, literally, remove from the marketplace the offending invention/technology that possesses the potential to dramatically affect the profitability of highly-successful business models.

Often, there is little benefit to incorporate new technology if the current model is already generating a significant amount of profit. It will be cheaper in the long run to purchase the invention and put it on the shelf until the current model becomes obsolete.

In fact, in business school one is taught to build businesses to sell them, ultimately. If you want to make a LOT of money fast build a technology or business that threatens or piques the interest of a large entity. Larger companies with significant capital are actively scouring the marketplace for businesses to buy all the time, for a variety of reasons.

Mudbox was probably built to be sold to a larger entity. Sounds nuts, but I am probably right. I have my suspicions, however unfounded.

If Lightwave ever gets purchased (sold by its owner(s)) to a competing company, Lightwave will probably end up being purged from the marketplace.

Lightwave is a very unique brand that, literally, may be one of the only 3D software companies in the world that possesses an almost iconic history and a remarkable longevity. The owner(s) of Lightwave is(are) a unique person(bunch). Unfortunately, it is the Lightwave brand that would actually make it an attractive purchase and purge if the company was sold to a much larger competitor.

In the same token, Lightwave's existing business model may not be attractive to a large company like Adobe, who would benefit from buying a 3D company and yet NOT purge the technology.

But, if Jay Roth can continue to pull Lightwave out of the doldrums, as he has, and Lightwave continues to gain market share and successfully implement newer technologies in the upcoming years (which builds value), the owner(s) may have a real asset that can be sold quite easily.

Time will tell.

mattclary
08-06-2007, 12:10 PM
Maybe NewTek and Luxology should merge? :devil:

alifx
08-06-2007, 12:29 PM
Maybe NewTek and Luxology should merge? :devil:

that would be a right decision and a good deal also.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 12:36 PM
maybe lightwave-vue-silo-messiah should merge...that would make much more sense than the long knives of darkness [dodo] swanning back in the door...anyhow dodo's destined to be bought by apple and brought into fnal cut pro suite next year...most likley.

Wonderpup
08-06-2007, 12:43 PM
So how long before Autodesk sets it's sights on Newtek or Luxology then eh?

Adobe is the most likely candidate- 3D is the future of graphics and they are currently nowhere in this area- sadly I don't think that Autodesk would even consider lightwave a serious enough threat to their dominance in 3D at present to even be worth swallowing.

alifx
08-06-2007, 12:46 PM
Are you familiar with the history of NewTek and Luxology? :hey:

hehe I know they left and they seem they don't like each other


in that post I forgot to show this icon :devil: to let you know what I mean

Matt
08-06-2007, 12:51 PM
Autodesk are the Microsoft of the 3D world as far as I'm concerned, thank the Lord for companies like NewTek!

Pavlov
08-06-2007, 12:53 PM
Theo,
i think i should clarify: i'm pretty happy with current team but given the numbers of things to do i'm blindly sure more money and/or more human resources could help greatly. Not in all cases btw; sure not Autodesk but neither a direct competitor, but as other point out there are there are quite a few options to go that direction.

Paolo

zardrose
08-06-2007, 01:04 PM
Adobe buy LW?

Lightwolf
08-06-2007, 01:06 PM
In fact, in business school one is taught to build businesses to sell them, ultimately.
I'm quite glad that some companies out there are run by people that never went to business school ;)

Then again, most decent companies were not founded by people from business schools either :D

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
08-06-2007, 01:08 PM
Autodesk are the Microsoft of the 3D world as far as I'm concerned, thank the Lord for companies like NewTek!
A bit like Adobe is the MS of the 2D world? ;)

Cheers,
Mike

zardrose
08-06-2007, 01:21 PM
Adobe Buy LW ?

Lightwolf
08-06-2007, 01:32 PM
Adobe Buy LW ?
Yup, Apple buys Avid, Microsoft buys Autodesk, Adobe buys Apple, Microsoft buys Adobe.... :D

Anybody major left?

Cheers,
Mike

AbnRanger
08-06-2007, 01:36 PM
Great news for me. This means more interoperability with my main program...though I would prefer they simply integrate the tech directly into Max.

Mudbox 1.0 is awesome for a 1.0.
Yeah...2.0 was supposed to include texture painting capability. If that still happens, then I think it was a smart move by Autodesk (nailing 2 birds with one stone)...getting alot of Zbrushes capability for a lot less. I wondered how Mudbox could hope to compete with Zbrush, when it costs more, yet offers less.

The brief states that an Integration team is already at work...so that's good news for us Max users. Now, if we could get an Interactive Renderer like FPrime or Rendition, we'd be good to go.

Wonder if Newtek is feeling any heat from this?

ShawnStovall
08-06-2007, 01:37 PM
Yup, Apple buys Avid, Microsoft buys Autodesk, Adobe buys Apple, Microsoft buys Adobe.... :D

Anybody major left?

Cheers,
Mike

Microsoft buys Ford!:D

AbnRanger
08-06-2007, 01:40 PM
Adobe Buy LW ?I know I'll take flak for this, but I think it would help LW compete with it's corporate-level competition...IF Adobe just got the heck out of the way, and simply aided development with additional funding and manpower.

Lightwolf
08-06-2007, 01:43 PM
I know I'll take flak for this, but I think it would help LW compete with it's corporate-level competition...IF Adobe just got the heck out of the way, and simply aided development with additional funding and manpower.
Which is very, very unlikely. Firs they'll choke LW development with years work of paperwork and red tape ;)

Then they plan 3 releases ahead and don't budge even if the industry changes...

Cheers,
Mike

AbnRanger
08-06-2007, 01:53 PM
Maybe NewTek and Luxology should merge? :devil:If they could "Kiss & Make Up," that might be a heck of an idea.
However, LW's code probably wouldn't mate well with Luxology's architecture, I don't think. Kind of like trying to bolt new Corvette parts onto a vintage 60's model.

Red_Oddity
08-06-2007, 02:09 PM
If they could "Kiss & Make Up," that might be a heck of an idea.
However, LW's code probably wouldn't mate well with Luxology's architecture, I don't think. Kind of like trying to bolt new Corvette parts onto a vintage 60's model.

Hey, nothing ducktape can't fix...oh wait, that's what we have right now...

theo
08-06-2007, 02:25 PM
If they could "Kiss & Make Up," that might be a heck of an idea.
However, LW's code probably wouldn't mate well with Luxology's architecture, I don't think. Kind of like trying to bolt new Corvette parts onto a vintage 60's model.

I can only imagine Luxology and Lightwave merging in a land chock full of eight foot lollipops, cotton-candy clouds, cuddly puppies, large chests full of precious gems and 70-virgin clusters on each and every corner programmed only to say yes. In other wods, this is as likely to occur as the world I just envisioned.

Exception
08-06-2007, 02:30 PM
i think i should clarify: i'm pretty happy with current team but given the numbers of things to do i'm blindly sure more money and/or more human resources could help greatly. Not in all cases btw; sure not Autodesk but neither a direct competitor, but as other point out there are there are quite a few options to go that direction.

That's what common sense would tell you, unfortunately enough, the reality of corporations works differently. Look at any of the large software corporations and you'll see what I mean. Microsoft, Adobe, AutoDesk, they all produce products which only inch forward in development, have horrible support, have all kinds of purpose-defeating systems, bloated, overpriced, dominating pieces of software.
In any case, a company larger than 80 people working at one product is very infefficient. So, kind of estimating the size of the Lightwave team, I'm sure they could use a little bit of help, but being bought out, or even merged with a larger insititution is highly unlikely to yield any beneficial results.

Cress: Lightscape is integrated into Max 8, that is more than 10 years after it was bought out, and 10 years after they plain-faced lied about its integration into Viz. In these 10 years the Lightscape engine did not go through any major revisions or improvements and is still at the same level as it was back then. I call this raping and pillaging of a piece of technology, and only under exceeding consumer pressure they did the bare minimum, and that they did badly.

Hey, Nt is isn't perfect, but I'd rather be a human member of this hard working small family than being a cent in the big money machine of corporate software world.


and 70-virgin clusters on each and every corner programmed only to say yes.

Holy smoke! What an image!
Uh, how would one go about obtaining such a place? :)

Steamthrower
08-06-2007, 03:01 PM
The NewTek personnel probably read these threads, bellowing in laughter, like the "Implementors" of Infocom fame.

theo
08-06-2007, 03:05 PM
Holy smoke! What an image!
Uh, how would one go about obtaining such a place? :)

Your guess is as good as mine.

'Course, if one could, by some bizarre stretch of infinity (which is infinitely impossible), um, obtain such a place then the premise of my statement will have been compromised beyond any reasonable repair.

This is NOT one of the states of excellence my inner workings machine finds satisfaction in.

theo
08-06-2007, 03:12 PM
The NewTek personnel probably read these threads, bellowing in laughter, like the "Implementors" of Infocom fame.

OR, their invisible tail stubs constrict...in fear... :D

Matt
08-06-2007, 03:23 PM
Yup, Apple buys Avid, Microsoft buys Autodesk, Adobe buys Apple, Microsoft buys Adobe.... :D

Anybody major left?

Cheers,
Mike

"God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs, God creates man, man kills God, man creates dinosaurs"

"Dinosaurs eat man, women inherits the earth!"

:D

jat
08-06-2007, 03:34 PM
Goodbye Macintosh port! :(


BAz, can't miss what we never had in the first place right?.....poor 3rd class citizens we Mac users are.............:oye:

Exception
08-06-2007, 04:19 PM
Your guess is as good as mine.

I hear if you strap dynamite to yourself and blow it up in a bus filled with innocents you go to such a place. Of course it could be just rumours ;)

Danic101
08-06-2007, 04:23 PM
I for one Hope NewTek doesn't sell out, You guys forget that they make some really innovate and popular Video Products. You can pry my TriCaster Studio from my cold dead hands.

Pavlov
08-06-2007, 04:32 PM
Back to topic, i've an old MotoGuzzi in my garage.
Before Autodesk's purchasing inspiration ends... who knows.

Paolo

jameswillmott
08-06-2007, 04:50 PM
not to sound all negative but i wouldn't class newtek's lightwave development is 'fast'...it's getting there but darn it's slow to see the light of day for many given things over in other apps [instancing, groups, modeling/animating]

and lightscape took ages to be intergrated into max but it's pretty much ''there'' in max 8 and max 9.

Take into consideration how much the new team has done in the time they've had. :)

Wonderpup
08-06-2007, 05:48 PM
Ok, if 3D apps were a herd of wildebeast, Lightwave would be the small runty one at the edge of the group- exactly the prey that a big beast like adobe would be looking for- and looking at the mountain they have to climb I can easily imagine NT deciding to throw in the towel and take the money to invest in the video side of things, where they do seem stronger.

And I'm going to have Tshirt made with the slogan 'this option only applies to othographic or schematic viewports' because I really appreciate the subtle irony of anticipating my need to the point of coding a response that tells me I can't do it, and then forces me to actively dismiss the response by clicking 'ok', somehow making me agree that while I might have expected such exotic functionality to exist, it's too much to expect in the real world.

Could the wording on the button at least be changed to 'not ok' so that I could have the transient satisfaction of protest every time I click the bloody thing.

Pavlov
08-06-2007, 05:55 PM
Could the wording on the button at least be changed to 'not ok' so that I could have the transient satisfaction of protest every time I click the bloody thing.



Sbrotfl....

Bog
08-06-2007, 06:01 PM
Christ's Kittens.

*peers myopically at the wall*

Guys? There's writing on this damn thing.

*deep, deep sigh*

Not good news, not good news at all.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 06:53 PM
Take into consideration how much the new team has done in the time they've had. :)

yup.. i agree

here's my thoughts on future lightwave's....

playing catchup:- yeah newtek need lightwave to catch up with the rest of the 3d apps and get modeling into layout BUT that shold not be the main goal...chasing other apps will always mean your second.

adding unique stuff is where you'll GAIN and keep users...

stuff like the real camera lens should be shouted about over at siggraph..lightwave needs a bunch of these leading features to get noticed and not so much the 'we too' have a group button now in comparison
if and when we get a group button!:D

Chris S. (Fez)
08-06-2007, 07:16 PM
I agree. After seeing the Max 2008 (Max 10) pdf I feel much better about Lightwave's development. Lightwave 9.2 is an awesome release after all:thumbsup: .

wacom
08-06-2007, 08:24 PM
If you had a modo/lightwave/silo/zbrush merger or what ever you can think up it would end up looking like a plugin mess. You'd think there is way too much proprietary stuff going on with each of those systems to have them ever properly merge. It would be like having layout, modeler, texturer, scluptor or one bloated mess.

I'm all for companies staying separate and learning how to play together- like using collada etc. for file exchange. I like having choices to choose from and don't mind learning a few extra hot keys or clicks to do so!

I might be crazy, but I think that 3D software is just too complex, and still relatively very early in development to be in a situation like 2D image editing where 99% of the market is controlled by Adobe and little innovation is made. Part of this might be something as simple as that there is no standard file format yet (including animation) etc.

Some say it's good times for Autodesk and that may be so, but with Vray going multi-platform you might actually see them pull less weight with MAX...lucky for them they acquired Maya to back them up...

And how many people are going to NOT buy MB now that it's owned by Autodesk? It isn't just wavers that hate AutoDesk...

I was suspicious of MB before...now I wont even touch it...not with my trusty copy of ZB close at hand!

cresshead
08-06-2007, 08:27 PM
full feature list of max 2008
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/blog/5/blogpost/5156/

i'm no fanboy of autodesk...i use max and lightwave and zb3..they're all cool software in my opinion.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 08:38 PM
just to clarify...
i'm a ''waver''
i'm a zbrush3 user
i'm a vue infiante user


i'm ALSO a 3dsmax user...

try not to paint/whitewash all wavers as haters of other software or companies!
except for ''dodo'' of course!

3d apps and artist use multiple apps to get jobs done thesedays..

Chris S. (Fez)
08-06-2007, 08:41 PM
There are some great features listed in that blog. The Max marketing team is apparently composed of morons.

cresshead
08-06-2007, 08:48 PM
either that or they're playing it ''cool'' and we'll be wide eyed when the feature videos are uploaded to the max product area.

not too sure aboutthe viewport rendering thing...i'd have sooner had a ipr like fprime or even the preview thing from xsi [ohh i said something good about xsi!]

still i'll wait n see....

apple's showing it's new hardware [imac's etc] tomorrow

going to be a fun packed week!

sculptactive
08-07-2007, 01:24 AM
This indeed sad news.
It seemed like an eternity from rumours to a fully available version 1.0.
I just hope version 2.0 comes out before AutoDesk kill it.

RedBull
08-07-2007, 03:56 AM
Take into consideration how much the new team has done in the time they've had. :)

LW9.x was likely the single longest, production cycle I've seen NT do in many years, it's definitely been slow going in the last 2 years, not to mention the 8.x cycle that went basically nowhere.

LW9.0 was well overdue, and the 9.2 upgrade took almost a year after 9.0?
In the same time Modo, Maya and XSI have released multiple upgrades.
(and again, have announced more updates at Siggraph!)

LW has slipped way behind in the last few years, and with XSI slashing prices, traditional modeling tools becoming less important compared to sculpting...

I can't see any other company being interested in buying NT actually...
If you compare Hex2/Silo2/Modo301 there codebase, is significantly future proofed in comparison to LW.

Not an easy job for a small based Texas team, to compete with Autodesks of the world. But you would think a pace similar to Hexagon2 or Silo should be able to be maintained.

IMI
08-07-2007, 04:38 AM
Nothing against max, maya and Autodesk, but those interfaces just kill me. It's probably related to my dislike of circuses, somehow. I'll have to remember to ask my shrink about that. :D

I'd hate to see LW get bought out by Autodesk. It'd probably become a little line of goofy-looking icons at the top of an already bloated interface. Where's VIPER? Oh, there it is, the little snake-looking thingy right next to that thing that looks like a pincushion. No, the 3rd pincushion to the left of the larger pincushion with the dot next to it. Yeah, that one.

I really couldn't have a problem seeing NT and Luxology merge though.

Matt
08-07-2007, 06:38 AM
Everytime I try a demo of 3DSMax with the good intentions of trying to like it, I end up uninstalling it soon after. I just HATE its workflow, maybe I'm just too old to learn a new package!

cresshead
08-07-2007, 06:49 AM
well maybe,

xsi:
i didn't like xsi when i bought xsi foundation4.0..i found it 'okay' but had a bunch of annoying things that stopped me from using it..like no world scale units..done deal...can't use the app with out metric, imperial..no ies lights either..


modo:
i tried modo demo ages back version1 and it was 'all text' and that vertical text based menu bar that's 90 degress rotated was the final straw....having to tilt your head to read it was so stupid i just uninstalled it and was left with 'how can they be SO dumb' in their workflow?...i downloaded that 1 gig video and saw nothing new...same mistakes being made over n over...the lack of shader balls and feedback of what you were doing just reminded me of the crap way xsi did it's shader tree thing back in 4.0 days..ie poo.

max?....love it...it's SO logical and well written...maybe you need a decent max user next to you showing you how they work?

Sil3
08-07-2007, 06:57 AM
max?....love it...it's SO logical and well written...

This one gets the award of the year as the most hilarious thing ever written about 3dmax :thumbsup:

cresshead
08-07-2007, 06:57 AM
modo:
having a decent modo user next to me won't change the 90degree rotated text menu bar will it?

xsi:
having a decent xsi user next to me won't suddenly give me metric units to work with and a proper ruler system eh?

:D

cresshead
08-07-2007, 07:00 AM
This one gets the award of the year as the most hilarious thing ever written about 3dmax :thumbsup:

of course everyone is entitled to their opinion..my opinion is based off of using 3dsmax from 1999 to 2007.

3dsmax is VERY logical...you make a guess where 'you'd put stuff or how you'd like it to work' and guess what...95% of the time autodesk made it just that way...

it's not perfect...but then lightweaveisn't either....i find lw and max are on the whole the best 3d apps out there for ease of use.

cresshead
08-07-2007, 07:05 AM
sarcasm on>> yeah course your right...that's why max has the largest commercial userbase on planet earth ...must be cos it's a ***** to use and fails to deliver all the time<< sarcasm off

...

fan boys...luv 'em!

AbnRanger
08-07-2007, 07:20 AM
I got your back Cress... Being able to animate any modeling function is...logical. Having a Modifier stack where you can turn your modifiers on and off, or reorder them...that's a hard workflow, aye? Since your not used to having that in LW, I guess it would be hard on you.
Oh...and having consolidated modeling tools in one rollout puts a strain on your brain?

You guys sneered at Cressheads assessment of Max...have some of your own cake.

Sil3
08-07-2007, 07:25 AM
sarcasm on>> yeah course your right...that's why max has the largest commercial userbase on planet earth ...must be cos it's a ***** to use and fails to deliver all the time<< sarcasm off

...

fan boys...luv 'em!

Now now...dont be upset... I only found your remark funny thats all... being the largest user base means sh** to me... if things were good because lots of people were using/listening/seeing/playing it then Britney Spears would be the best female singer and her music would be the best all over the world.... and Windows Solitaire would be the most amazing game ever..since MILIONS play it everyday and some for hours and hours...

Anyway we all know why MAX has a stronge user base... first 3d modeling package for Windows and the most cracked also..so lets not get there... besides you started on it in 1999...ever you ever tought that it might you that is all used to its workflow and not the package that is intuitive at all?...

cresshead
08-07-2007, 07:29 AM
This one gets the award of the year as the most hilarious thing ever written about 3dmax :thumbsup:

this is what i was coming back on...now that's a shallow fan boy defending
line if i ever heard one...

i'll debate till the sun goes down on what's cool and absolute rubbish in 3dsmax
just as i would with lightwave...BOTH apps deliver what i'd call depth in their
applictaions they work DIFFERENTLY but they are complete apps made f rom an artists point of view 99% of the time which can't be said of xsi which i find to be
made from a techies point of view and which lack even the basics but delivers hi end stuff...i can't use an app that fails to 'walk' but can only 'run'.

Bog
08-07-2007, 07:30 AM
Please let's keep it civil, chaps. Yes, it's irksome seeing the Autocrat Hegemony rumbling iceberg-like over our industry - that's no need for name-calling.

Unless it's Max. It's mommy was a CAD package. Not sure about it's daddy, but I'm pretty sure he had a moustache.... ;)

AbnRanger
08-07-2007, 07:35 AM
Like I only know LightWave... What's with the silly small-minded, personal, belittling comments? Want me to insult your intelligence as well? Just say so... if you have one to insult.It was a quip in reference to you and Sil3 mocking Cresshead's view that Max has a logical arrangement.
You didn't simply say "It's not my cup of tea"...did you?
Not insulting your intelligence, but you're the one joking about it not being logical.

cresshead
08-07-2007, 07:35 AM
true...except for the moustache

and lightwave came for a tv editing app making 3d text....
let's not get into a pissing contest on how apps start..it's always an eye opener
...like modeler and layout were 2 apps cos of memory restictions on the amiga...
and 2 people devleoping each bit in isolation....and we're still there 10+ years later on!

so a cad background is not that bad eh?

cresshead
08-07-2007, 07:36 AM
...and calm....

ahh that's better!

Emmanuel
08-07-2007, 07:45 AM
Now the latest rumour I heard was that McDonald's wants to buy Apple, so they are the only ones offering "Mc"-whatevers.
"McApple" as a dessert, anyone ;) ?

cresshead
08-07-2007, 08:26 AM
this could lead to a new phrase:
''do you want mo-cap with that?''

riki
08-07-2007, 09:20 AM
Didn't take em long to sellout. I'm just really glad they didn't buy ZBrush.

SBowie
08-07-2007, 09:50 AM
''do you want mo-cap with that?''Mo-Cappuccino?

Steamthrower
08-07-2007, 09:57 AM
Really. Come on. This whole thread might as well have been copied and pasted from a hundred identical others.

This is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country and say:


Ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-P'tang, Zzoo-Boing, gdgdbaaoizen!

Phil
08-07-2007, 10:11 AM
I'd be seriously tempted by Maya, but NewTek have a grace period until next year when I'll reassess. If they get the animation system sorted out in some kind of useful way, I'll be stoked.

If not, well, I'm going to need to supplement somehow. In principle, I'd prefer XSI, but since there's no Mac version, there's no reason to consider it. Same for 3ds max. If blender's UI wasn't designed by someone who had previously worked on the input scheme for VCRs, I'd even be inclined to look at that.

Thalaxis
08-07-2007, 10:15 AM
There are some great features listed in that blog. The Max marketing team is apparently composed of morons.

Using "marketing" and "moron" to describe the same person is redundant.

:boogiedow

IMI
08-07-2007, 04:54 PM
I know for one, I'd love to see LW have its own version of Biped. :)

Bog
08-07-2007, 05:04 PM
'Course, once Autocrat have finished buying up or bankrupting everyone, then they won't need to run any of the Firefly or Galactica footage in their reel through Combustion or whatever (just to bump the gamma for projector-screen use, you know) before slapping their blimming logo all over it.

(Yes, that did cheese me off. Come to that, Dogboy and Iain were seeing pretty red as well over that)

Wickster
08-07-2007, 09:35 PM
Here's a fresh update. I just came back from SIGGRAPH today, though I mostly stayed within the perimeters of the NewTek booth, I did walk around a bit...only to come back to NT again.

Anyway, while we're in the subject of buyouts...I saw this sign on Maxon's booth (attached). Now why would the Adobe logo be attached to the Maxon logo...on their booth...hmmm...puzzling isn't it. ;)

Sorry the shot is kinda blurry, it was taken off my phone...I forgot to bring my camera. :twak:

riki
08-07-2007, 09:47 PM
I think it's to do with this http://www.maxoncomputer.com/tours2007/adobe/

IMI
08-07-2007, 09:47 PM
Simple. Eventually everything CG-related is going to be Adobe and Autodesk, and probably eventually, AdobeDesk.
*shrug*
Now I know how Stallone felt when he found out about Taco Bell... :D

Wickster
08-07-2007, 09:52 PM
Oh I never bothered to get stop by on their booth. I was busy looking at the books (focal press) right next to their booth.

But it's still a little interesting to me how they want a solid "MAXON/Adobe Workflow". I could be taking their message by mistake and think is some sort of mpartnership that could lead to a take over! or I could just be wrong, heheh.

JeffrySG
08-08-2007, 07:46 AM
Goodbye Macintosh port! :(
ain't that the truth.... doh....

cresshead
08-08-2007, 08:17 AM
not so combustion is on mac..so is maya...so is motion builder...so why not mudbox?

Stooch
08-08-2007, 09:38 AM
Great news for me. This means more interoperability with my main program...though I would prefer they simply integrate the tech directly into Max.

Mudbox 1.0 is awesome for a 1.0.

yay! i cant wait for them to integrate max into maya. there are some nice tools in that otherwise bloated and tired POS.

Stooch
08-08-2007, 09:48 AM
well maybe,

i tried modo demo ages back version1 and it was 'all text' and that vertical text based menu bar that's 90 degress rotated was the final straw....having to tilt your head to read it was so stupid i just uninstalled it and was left with 'how can they be SO dumb' in their workflow?.

sorry mate but if you actually tilted your head to read that toolbar, you should not be calling anything stupid. that would be like the kettle calling the pot black. if you get my drift. lol. of all the reasons not to like a program? you chose a vertical toolbar with text? what the hell do you do with your 3d software? read its buttons all day? lol that was probably the most ridiculous thing i have heard ANYONE say about a software package. if this isnt bias, i dont know what is.

cresshead
08-08-2007, 10:48 AM
with 'dodo' why is it then that all their video demo's still have that rotated menu bar?

if it's SO customisable why have it like THAT...?

and from what i saw the way material/sufaces are made/edited you don't have a flow of visual feedback like that of either 3dsmax or lightsnack when you play in dodo, it's blind except for the final output..much like that of xsi.

btw that ''bloated POS'' [your name not mine] your not fond of rules the world in 3d gaming, colleges, arch and design and many more areas...ust as lightsnack appears to rule visual effects in tv porgrams.

the way dodo is moving forward is quite quickly but it seems to be headed down a cul de sac.

Lightwolf
08-08-2007, 11:01 AM
and from what i saw the way material/sufaces are made/edited you don't have a flow of visual feedback like that of either 3dsmax or lightsnack when you play in dodo, it's blind except for the final output..much like that of xsi.

Maybe you should take a second look at modo or XSI then, because that certainly ain't true...

Now, C4D... yes :D

Cheers,
Mike

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:04 AM
dodo u.i.

http://www.m3dd.com/tutorials/images/SSFull/image1.jpg

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:10 AM
xsi rendertree

http://members.chello.at/thebigmuh/Dirtmap/SatiroTree.png

http://www.xsibase.com/images/xsi6/MaterialManager.jpg

with xsi you can see bitpmaps in render tree but unless i'm mistaken you cannot ''see'' 2d and 3d proceeduals on their nodes as a mini shader ball like you CAN in lightwave.

Stooch
08-08-2007, 11:22 AM
??? who cares about shader balls? i use modos IPR for texturing. with xsi i use limited region for tweaking.

in lw the shader ball typicall has little to no correlation to the final output since the scale is usually completely off. just the way you write "dodo" is evidence of bias. if oyu cant even bother to spell a programs name correctly, why even bother having an informed opinion about it? other then to slander it... anyway shader balls or not, vertical name bar or not. I still love to use modo and get decent results out of it fast and easy. they are simply non issues when it comes down to it. silly reasons to not like a program too.

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:25 AM
node joe with 3dsmax you can ''see'' 2d proceduals on the node flow..

just like you can with lightwave 9.0

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:26 AM
??? who cares about shader balls?



err.. i do!:D

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:31 AM
lightwave:-

http://www.cgfocus.com/images/article/tim_dunn-lw/Image5.jpg

Lightwolf
08-08-2007, 11:37 AM
XSI shader balls: http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/videos.aspx?video_id=28
Plus great IPR with a history.

Modo shader thumbnails:
http://www.luxology.com/training/video.aspx?id=30
Have a look at the top left. (Your screenshot seems to be from 10x, which obviously didn't even include rendering...)

Honestly, I don't mind debunking other apps, but try to do a bit of research before you do so ;)

Cheers,
Mike

P.S. Node Joe is third party, right?

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:40 AM
re my opinionated retort...was in reply to the 'bloated pos comment' YOU posted.

my prefered term ''dodo'' to that app is multifold...one we're on a lightwave forum and it's like treading on egg shells at best when people bring that app up here...also it's what i thing is behind the long term development of that particular app...it's a doomed concept...which will hit a brick wall pretty soon whereas other apps want grow/change.

cresshead
08-08-2007, 11:47 AM
can you ''see'' 2d proceduals and 3d proceduals in their respective nodes in render tree in xsi 6.0? as 2d or mini sahder ball swatches?

yes or no?
if yes can you screen grab a render tree?

08-08-2007, 11:53 AM
Or you're just 'opinionated'. Period. It's MY opinion that a lot of your posts are rarely informative, and more often than not, either lies or just down right ignorant of facts, especially when it comes to software. I don't really care which - just an observation really. I find your efforts to 'rename' other products annoying at best, and down right ridiculous when I'm less in the mood to wade through it in this forum. It's no wonder you don't post like this so much outside of this forum, I think you'd be laughed out of a lot of threads. But I guess it's ok here. At the least, try and bring some professionalism instead of childish, thinly disguised hostility to the forum when it comes to discussing other software - '*odo', or otherwise. :rolleyes:

Lightwolf
08-08-2007, 11:56 AM
can you ''see'' 2d proceduals and 3d proceduals in their respective nodes in render tree in xsi 6.0? as 2d or mini sahder ball swatches?

yes or no?
if yes can you screen grab a render tree?
Where it makes sense, yes:
http://www.softimage.com/Products/xsi/images/features/quickshade.jpg
Plus you can have a tracking shader ball, or multiples, or use Quickshade... etc...

There is also this nice "Show Shaderballs on All" option...

Cheers,
Mike

Qexit
08-08-2007, 12:05 PM
lol that was probably the most ridiculous thing i have heard ANYONE say about a software package. Actually, I think I can top that one :) The main reason I fell out with trying to use Project:messiah is that it doesn't have a 'Quit' or 'Exit' button. The only option is to click on the 'X' in the top righthand corner of the Windows window. It's the little things that make all the difference :D

cresshead
08-08-2007, 12:12 PM
Or you're just 'opinionated'. Period. It's MY opinion that a lot of your posts are rarely informative, and more often than not, either lies or just down right ignorant of facts, especially when it comes to software. I don't really care which - just an observation really. I find your efforts to 'rename' other products annoying at best, and down right ridiculous when I'm less in the mood to wade through it in this forum. It's no wonder you don't post like this so much outside of this forum, I think you'd be laughed out of a lot of threads. But I guess it's ok here. At the least, try and bring some professionalism instead of childish, thinly disguised hostility to the forum when it comes to discussing other software - '*odo', or otherwise. :rolleyes:


really?

:thumbsup::cat: ;D

Pavlov
08-08-2007, 12:56 PM
Actually, I think I can top that one :) The main reason I fell out with trying to use Project:messiah is that it doesn't have a 'Quit' or 'Exit' button. The only option is to click on the 'X' in the top righthand corner of the Windows window. It's the little things that make all the difference :D

After reading this and having a look at your nick, i think you suffer from claustrofobia OR have really important issues with Quit and EXIT buttons...

(kidding btw) :)


Paolo

IMI
08-08-2007, 09:23 PM
After reading this and having a look at your nick, i think you suffer from claustrofobia OR have really important issues with Quit and EXIT buttons...

(kidding btw) :)


Paolo

Now THAT is funny. :thumbsup: :)

Chris S. (Fez)
08-09-2007, 12:36 AM
yay! i cant wait for them to integrate max into maya. there are some nice tools in that otherwise bloated and tired POS.

To each his own I guess :). Max is great for technical modeling and animation. It is probably a better tool for making money than art.

Qexit
08-09-2007, 01:31 AM
After reading this and having a look at your nick, i think you suffer from claustrofobia OR have really important issues with Quit and EXIT buttons...

(kidding btw) :)


PaoloHehe, I like it:thumbsup: Shame the truth is a little less interesting. My sig name dates back to my days at university in the late 70s. Like all good students, I spent some time playing Dungeons and Dragons and Qexit was my character name at the time. I vaguely remember it being a combination of my wanting to have a name that started with 'Q' but didn't include a corresponding 'U' (to annoy one of the other players who hated things like that) and my frequently being able to make quick exits at just the right moment to prevent my character meeting an ignominious demise at the hands or teeth of some blood-thirsty dungeon denizen. Try saying that quickly half a dozen times :D

Now what is this thread supposed to be about again ? I forget :rolleyes:

Sil3
08-09-2007, 03:05 AM
can you ''see'' 2d proceduals and 3d proceduals in their respective nodes in render tree in xsi 6.0? as 2d or mini sahder ball swatches?

yes or no?
if yes can you screen grab a render tree?

Yes.... here it is:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7706/shadersballs4dummiesfa1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now...dont ask me where do we change the quantity of Undos in XSI... ill show you if only if you can show me where we do it in Layout :D...




... I know the last paragraph was over the top..but it was a way to show you that if you want to get picky about less important things to the majority of users (or things that are really not a way to judge a software strenght and competency)... then look first at your own glass rooftop then do a basic research ok...

Lightwolf
08-09-2007, 03:50 AM
Yes.... here it is:

You'll get to see them on every node if you select "Show Shaderballs on All" in the Show menu.

Heck, I don't even use XSI ... (I just flirt every now and then...)

Cheers,
Mike