PDA

View Full Version : Lightwave 9.2 or 3ds Max with combustion?



Brandonisrad
07-12-2007, 10:57 PM
Hey guys whats up^^

I am about to buy either Lightwave 9.2 or 3Ds Max for my assignments in college. I talked to my professor and he said that I may need to get 3Ds max because that's what the school uses and it would be hard to learn lightwave if I'm working with Max. But I don't really care how hard it is to learn it, I want to know which one will give me the best results lol. I like to do everything on my own "Modeling, animating ect." so I'm not looking for which is better in one department, I'm looking for which is better overall. So if you have alittle experience in both of them do you mind telling me "Which gives the better results with self-made animations?" thanks

Chris S. (Fez)
07-12-2007, 11:22 PM
Lightwave.

prospector
07-12-2007, 11:59 PM
lightwave

duke
07-13-2007, 12:21 AM
Seriously, after working with and still loving Lightwave over 8 years or so, aside from modeling I'd go with Max. In it's current state it is just such a solid, full featured piece of software, it's not like it used to be where you needed another $2000 worth of plugins. The only downside is the modeling is "CAD'y" at best, so you could pickup Modo or Lightwave just for modeling or look into the polyboost plugin for Max which makes things a bit more intuitive.

3D Kiwi
07-13-2007, 12:44 AM
Seriously, after working with and still loving Lightwave over 8 years or so, aside from modeling I'd go with Max. In it's current state it is just such a solid, full featured piece of software, it's not like it used to be where you needed another $2000 worth of plugins. The only downside is the modeling is "CAD'y" at best, so you could pickup Modo or Lightwave just for modeling or look into the polyboost plugin for Max which makes things a bit more intuitive.


I agree

Brandonisrad
07-13-2007, 01:22 AM
Seriously, after working with and still loving Lightwave over 8 years or so, aside from modeling I'd go with Max. In it's current state it is just such a solid, full featured piece of software, it's not like it used to be where you needed another $2000 worth of plugins. The only downside is the modeling is "CAD'y" at best, so you could pickup Modo or Lightwave just for modeling or look into the polyboost plugin for Max which makes things a bit more intuitive.


Thanks, but I have one question heh, can you still create detailed human characters in Max or is it limited to "toonish" characters? in other words {Can I create really good humans in Max} lol?

3D Kiwi
07-13-2007, 01:26 AM
Best you got to www.cgtalk.com and have a look around there, some of the best looking charactors i have scene comes out of max, but that is up to the person using it.

Brandonisrad
07-13-2007, 01:28 AM
Best you got to www.cgtalk.com and have a look around there, some of the best looking charactors i have scene comes out of max, but that is up to the person using it.

Awesome

Thanks for the info and the link^^

Brandonisrad
07-13-2007, 01:32 AM
Hey kiwi, I have this program called Carrara basic -something either 2 or 3- but it completly sucks. I mean I have used lightwave, and I know things like joints and how to build a character in it, but this program seems to have no joints, no bevel tool or even points!. Have you used it before or heard of it, and do you know why it was even created lol? Thanks.

3D Kiwi
07-13-2007, 01:37 AM
sorry never heard of it before, looked on the net and looks like version 5 has bones etc. I am sure others on here may know more about it.

Brandonisrad
07-13-2007, 01:39 AM
sorry never heard of it before, looked on the net and looks like version 5 has bones etc. I am sure others on here may know more about it.

Ok. Thanks^^

wavk
07-13-2007, 01:52 AM
max


mlon

ShawnStovall
07-13-2007, 02:00 AM
I have a trial of MAX and am following the "Modeling a Low-Poly character" and am finding that LightWave is MUCH more intuitive when it comes to modeling(MAX feels very tedious), now for animating, I don't know ;D. I haven't done any in either, but from what I have heard MAX has the ups on animating.

:lwicon: Forever!:boogiedow :lwicon:

katsh
07-13-2007, 03:34 AM
my wife.

she do everything without plug-in which is very expensive.
and she dont connect license server in every launch the program.

AbnRanger
07-13-2007, 03:37 AM
This is a really hard question to answer. I still use Max predominantly, and OVERALL...there's no question about it...3ds Max beats LW black and blue. It's modeling is more robust and the tools are contained in one rollout (which I float to my 2nd monitor). Plus, when you throw in the inexpensive plugin, Polyboost, Max is then arguably the best poly modeler on the market. It really got an overall performance jump (rather dramatic actually), as of Max 9, and by comparison, LW is rather slow.

Max is hard to beat in the area of Dynamics (with Havoc's Reactor), particles (Particle Flow), Hair N Fur (ShaveNHaircut...also implemented in Maya, XSI advanced, and C4D), Cloth, and Character Animation (Character Studio)
Your instructor was right. It is hard to learn both simultaneously.

LW has a good deal of catching up to do in the market, but they are hard at work, rebuilding the core, and I'm anxious to see what they are going to cook up in the next revision or two. The advantages that they have is Price...if you are going to be doing some freelance work after college, LW is a good choice. It also has the best native renderer, and rivals 3rd party renderers of competing programs. That's huge because you don't have to worry about compatibility issues with this plugin or that. It just works, and is now much faster. It's material node editor is as robust as any out there. And the biggy is the LW plugin called FPrime.
This is where I lament using Max instead of LW.
Go to www.Worley.com and watch the videos...there's just nothing else like it. If I were you...I'd wait. Give each program a 30 day trial, and by the end of it Siggraph will be under way, and most companies use this as an opportunity to show off their newest diggs.
I'm thinking that if Newtek doesn't unveil a glimpse of LW 10, that it will show 9.5 with a new Character animation system or at least vastly improved CA tools...and much improved modeler.
Regardless, I think delaying your decision til then would be wise, because I expect LW to close the gap a bit, even though Max will see improvements too.

cresshead
07-13-2007, 06:45 AM
i agree NOW is not the time to spend on lightwave or 3dsmax even if it's the edu version of max.

as above try the demo's...and sit back and see what newtek and autodesk delivers at siggraph...it's only a couple of weeks away..:thumbsup:

Yog
07-13-2007, 07:07 AM
For the stage you are at, both will fulfil your needs.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and neither is totally dominant. And yes, both are very capable of producing very realistic models, as well as toon models.

Considering your situation I would go with MAX. If you are starting from scratch as you seem to suggest, then you will need all the help you can get to learn a profession grade piece of software, and it looks as though your lecturer has much more experience of MAX.

Chris S. (Fez)
07-13-2007, 07:14 AM
i agree NOW is not the time to spend on lightwave or 3dsmax even if it's the edu version of max.

as above try the demo's...and sit back and see what newtek and autodesk delivers at siggraph...it's only a couple of weeks away..:thumbsup:

I agree. As a rule never purchase software when Siggraph is on the horizon as there are often show specials to take advantage of. Also, even if they do not release the latest software at Siggraph, companies will usually provide free upgrades to the next version if you purchase a seat.

Of course the benefit of Lightwave is that, unlike Max, Lightwave's point upgrades are feature rich and free!

cresshead
07-13-2007, 09:11 AM
in max's defence there's been some really nice 'point' updates with max...with
[for subscription only..but still free]..
we got particle flow,
we got fur/hair
we got cloth..
we got radiosity adaptive subdivisions
we got power booleans

not exactly lacking is it?

as you may tell my studio is 3dsmax AND lightwave....plus Vue+z brush3

Brandonisrad
07-13-2007, 12:02 PM
Thanks guys!
And thanks for the link Ranger! Most likely will go with 3Ds max "even though it's higher" but I will wait for the next version of lightwave to come out then I will buy it. That way I will have them both lol since I can't choose :I

archijam
07-13-2007, 12:30 PM
Modelling is why I left MAX and went to LW, but then again have never used polyboost.

I would choose LW Modeler, MAX layout and Vray renderer ;)

j.

Andyjaggy
07-13-2007, 01:16 PM
Yep never cared for modeling in max. It's just personal preference.

Steamthrower
07-13-2007, 01:20 PM
Personally LW, out of many different 3d apps, is my favorite. It has a beautiful and essentially seamless renderer.

But...

...if your college is using Max then I'd recommend it for you. It's bloated and ridiculously expensive but you can get educational discounts. When your class starts studying dynamics or CA you'd probably not want to have LW, with its slower workflow.

AbnRanger
07-14-2007, 02:30 AM
Thanks guys!
And thanks for the link Ranger! Most likely will go with 3Ds max "even though it's higher" but I will wait for the next version of lightwave to come out then I will buy it. That way I will have them both lol since I can't choose :I
If you are buying the EDU version, the Superpack is a really good option...coming with Combustion.
http://www.studica.com/products/product_detail.cfm?productid=51259
Max and Combustion are very tightly integrated
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=5574967
...one of the reasons I chose both. It doesn't seem to get alot of publicity...although it REALLY should...but you can use Combustion's paint tools in a similar fashion as Deep Paint 3D or BodyPaint 3D.
Material Paint
http://www2.autodesk.com/streaming/playertable.php?id=203
Displacement painting
http://www2.autodesk.com/streaming/playertable.php?id=205

Since Cinema 4D has BodyPaint 3D integrated, and XSI Advanced has a decent built in compositor, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Autodesk answers this by including Combustion with a license of Max, in the near future.

Keep your powder dry and wait til after Siggraph, since Combustion's due for an upgrade too (the more I use it the more I love this compositor :thumbsup: ).
So, if you buy this pack after Siggraph, you will probably qualify to get the upgrade of both programs when they are finally released. However, if you buy it right now, you'll be stuck with no upgrades.

alifx
07-14-2007, 03:11 AM
pretty nice integration AbnRanger :)


what I like about MAX is most of things in it are like modifiers, so you can edit them whenever you want without redoing things.

IMHO... it's recommended to wait until siggraph and see what MAX or LW will offer, and I doubt you will choose max until that, if money is not a problem ^_^


good luck

bluerider
07-14-2007, 04:14 PM
Lightwaves intuative modeling approach, Particulary in regard to organic modeling beats max black and blue.

LightWave is a far easier package to learn. You'll get the end result completed quicker.

cresshead
07-14-2007, 04:25 PM
max and lightwave are pretty simple to pick up and learn that's why they are the top two installed 3d apps bought by artists.

re organics- max is a bit slower granted but you do get some tools and workflows that are currently impossible in lightwave an then there's polyboost which stole wholesale from lightwave, silo, z brush [projection painting] and other apps and made them even better in most cases...

the thing that annoys me with max is the lack of phantom point editing...

the thing that annoys me with lightwave is not having any maniplulators in modeler with object/local etc like that of max and silo...

and no modifiers...
everything to you in lightwave modeler turns into polys...you NEED undo and layers to work..you can't tweek a lathe spline after you've lathed it...you build a new one...with luck all that will be a distant memory once we have sub object selection over in layout..

of course lightwave can still model quicker than max on average so it's half a dozen of one and the other really...

lightwave is cheaper, runs on mac and pc...has lower spec's needed for a machine to run okay..and...well it's NICE!

the bishop
10-10-2008, 02:55 PM
i simply cannot believe anyone would recommend max over lightwave for anything other than pricing. but... that's just me.

it's a no contest, hands down, no question, without a doubt,

lightwave.

cresshead
10-10-2008, 03:01 PM
i simply cannot believe anyone would recommend max over lightwave for anything other than pricing. but... that's just me.

it's a no contest, hands down, no question, without a doubt,

lightwave.

all depends on what you want to do..
i find 3dsmax faster for many things and lightwave modeler desparately
needs throwing into layout wholsale in the next version [lw10]

for rigging, animation, cloth, hair, dev for games or arch design 3dsmax has the higher ground over lightwave imo also setting up max with backburner for network rendering is a breeze...and outputting to combustion is a one click solution.

max has it's faults for sure...but lightwave also has it's share of drawbacks and workarounds too!

inakito
10-13-2008, 06:44 AM
I started with Lightwave around 6 years ago, at the same time I did with Max. After 6 months I left behing max to carry on using Lightwave untill nowadays.
There is no doubt Lightwave is the strongest full package for the money you pay.
Also, the final results you reach doing 3d it is never going to be depending on which software you use but how you use it. It doesnt matter if you use the best modelling software but you dont have any idea on polygon flow.
I am happy with Lightwave. The only problem I found is the market here in London, where most of post houses uses Maya...

Hope it helps and the best of luck!

:)

Andyjaggy
10-13-2008, 11:42 AM
I love Lightwave but due to the fact I have lost many a job because they want someone who uses "max" I think if I were to start over I would go the max direction. I started learning it at the beginning but Lightwave has always clicked with me.

Or learn both, but unless someone is paying for my copy and paying for the time I spend learning it that's probably not going to happen unless I get pretty desperate.

cresshead
10-14-2008, 04:09 PM
if i were starting out and had limited funds available i go this way>

1.zbrush
2.lightwave 9.5
3.maya ple

zbrush + lightwave give to top quality tools at an affordable pricepoint
add to that maya ple and you can learn as you earn [via lw and zbrush]
maya with maya ple to get you in to more job opportunities as well as
freelance work with zbrush and lightwave.