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ben martin
07-11-2007, 11:50 AM
As client and user and if you believe Lightwave is loosing grounds compared with other major 3D applications, let's hope Newtek can hear our opinion about what we believe is “urgent” to developed in Lightwave.

You can make multiple choices!

Help to make the difference.
Many thanks for you opinion.

Lew
07-11-2007, 12:37 PM
If I were NewTek, what I would want to know is what do people want that are buying other apps.

These polls are good perhaps to make development decisions, but from the business and marketing standpoint not as helpful. That is, I'm guessing that most of those responding are customers.

ben martin
07-11-2007, 12:42 PM
Thanks for you comment.

You can always choose “Others” and specify exactly what you believe is missing or is making people to turn to other apps.

Andyjaggy
07-11-2007, 12:53 PM
Badly constructed poll.

Why did you put "Improved modeler tools plus digital sculpting" in the same choice.

I for one would love improved Modeler tools and an improved Modeler in general. But I think NewTek should put no efforts in to sculpting for a long time to come. I have Zbrush 3 for that and frankly it would be a waste of resources, currently, to try and do any meaningful development in that regard.

Ditto. New modeler tools but I don't think digital sclupting is something Newtek should worry about right now.

ben martin
07-11-2007, 01:07 PM
Ok, neverko and Andyjaggy, you have a point here… unfortunately I cannot edit the pool to change that!
Anyway, let’s assume it that way.

CORRECTION TO THE POOL:
Improved modeler tools plus digital sculpting
From now on this point is only related to other tools not involving “Digital Sculpting”!

If someone desires “Digital Sculpting” tools should choose OTHER and specify it clearly!

Hope this can help to clarify the pool!

Andyjaggy
07-11-2007, 01:15 PM
I don't know though all the tools are so tied together it is hard to just pick one. What I would rather see more then "New modeler tool" Is modeler tools that work and an overall increase in stability and SPEED in modeler. IE the ability to edit an object thats more then 100k

gatz
07-11-2007, 01:20 PM
Why did you put "Improved modeler tools plus digital sculpting" in the same choice.

I for one would love improved Modeler tools and an improved Modeler in general. But I think NewTek should put no efforts in to sculpting for a long time to come. I have Zbrush 3 for that and frankly it would be a waste of resources, currently, to try and do any meaningful development in that regard.


Agreed. I suspect whenever these petitions appear the responses are divided between. The the folks that want a polished toolset and those that just want "options" and don't want to pay any extra.

How many responding in the affirmation to "digital sculpting" and "hair" currently use ZBrush or Sasquatch? For that matter how many asking for "Character system" use Maya or XSI? Duplication would imply a real need in the market, otherwise its just kids circling everything in the Sears catalog.

geothefaust
07-11-2007, 02:32 PM
New rigging and animation system, please.

:)

Dodgy
07-11-2007, 02:39 PM
I'd say rigging and animation, as this is the farthest behind other apps and would be a shooting off point for doing animated modelling, hair and just about everything else. Truart and fibrefactory and sasquatch have hair covered for now, I don't think the dynamics are that bad, though particle collisions could use work, and modelling isn't terrible. What LW really needs is a great SDK, that in my opinion is both XSI and maya's main strength. Some great plugins have been made for LW, but if we had this, then people could be developing a better LW AT THE SAME TIME as the NT dev team.

gschrick
07-11-2007, 04:02 PM
For me, the biggest pull away from LW is a compatibility issue, the fact that it is loosing ground and less people are using it. I work in TV and it's hard to collaborate with other affiliates or studios when they are using other animation packages. We tried converted scenes and objects, but it's usually a mighty tedious task and an extra expense. Such as Maya, most translation packages like PolyTrans convert the scene out of Maya to use on LW. Therefore I have to convince a third party to purchase more software.

When I have worked with other affiliates using Maya, there is no difference in the quality and most of the time, I'm faster. But I usually can't modify one of their animations without starting from scratch.

I think it just a matter of common ground rather than LW missing features. If everyone you know uses AT&T and you're using Sprint, you're probably going to switch even if the service is identical.

Also, students and aspiring animators are going to learn the most common tool, so it's easier to find work.

MachineClaw
07-11-2007, 04:12 PM
Documentation. 'nough said!

Stooch
07-11-2007, 04:33 PM
I voted for particle and VFX related stuff because i dont believe that LW will be competitive against xsi or maya any time soon. and even if they do get the character stuff working, i doubt it will do much for its preconceived notion that is a bad CA package.

also any serious CA production needs alot more then just rigging. it needs good sbd, cloth, useable hair, full scripting support, animation workflow enhancements that go far beyond just bones and ik tools.

stick with what LW does best, rendering and effects animation. get it stable, clean up the interface. i did not vote for modeling tools because the poll bundled sculpting into the vote which is a huge mistake. lw isnt modo.

Andyjaggy
07-11-2007, 09:17 PM
Does anyone else feel like we are all of the sudden stuck in an anti-lightwave movement. It's like we all woke up two days ago and decided that we all hate lightwave. It would be nice to hear a nice "this is what's going on" word from Newtek. That would definately boost moral. Maybe a sneak peak at some of the stuff they have been working on........... hello. anyone.

vadermanchild
07-11-2007, 09:24 PM
I voted OTHERS:

Speed, Bugs , Better lights (single sided area all the way through to light exclussions) As someone says without strong light exclussion controls feature quality is hard/tediuos to acheive.

Did I mention SPEED and BUGS?

Andyjaggy
07-11-2007, 09:38 PM
I voted OTHERS:

Speed, Bugs , Better lights (single sided area all the way through to light exclussions) As someone says without strong light exclussion controls feature quality is hard/tediuos to acheive.

Did I mention SPEED and BUGS?

I am surprised we didn't see some improvements to the lighting system with 9.2. It seems like it would go hand in hand with the render engine. Guess not.

3dworks
07-12-2007, 02:50 AM
i voted others. my top list: better and more flexible lighting, better caustics, faster and better openGL, better interchange with other platforms (especially: fix 3DS and OBJ formats!), better and easier to set up network rendering, GI (cache) suitable animation with network rendering.

markus

starbase1
07-12-2007, 03:48 AM
Does anyone else feel like we are all of the sudden stuck in an anti-lightwave movement. It's like we all woke up two days ago and decided that we all hate lightwave. It would be nice to hear a nice "this is what's going on" word from Newtek. That would definately boost moral. Maybe a sneak peak at some of the stuff they have been working on........... hello. anyone.

With all the rush of stuff that came out in 9.2, I would not be at all surprised if there is some assesment of how they did and how to build on it going on...

Nick

starbase1
07-12-2007, 03:54 AM
I really think modeller lags a lot - many people are using other software for modelling, and that's bad - do it right, or don't do it at all.

I do think documentation needs top continue improving - I mentioned in a different thread that the Hexagon docs (with loads of small embedded video examples) are superb.

I think the simplest things to make it more usable, and faster to pick up would be:

1. Get all the preset shelves well stocked with samples! We could all chip in. (And I suspect that if a nice T-shirt was offered to the person who made the best submissions, there would be thousads offered!)

2. The lack of full undo in layout is shameful.

Having said that, Newtek have done an awesome job in moving LW forward in the last 2 releases, and I am REALLY keen to see what they come up with to do next!

Nick

Cageman
07-12-2007, 04:00 AM
I voted Render Engine.... What it does now are good, but apparently there are two things that is missing:

1. Good memory-management of displacements.
2. Way more flexible/artist friendly renderlayer/buffer exporters.

I can handle myself pretty good with the current setup of multiple scenefiles and renderbuffers, but new users comming from Maya/XSI (who wants to use LW for the renderer) may find it difficult and convoluted....

wavk
07-12-2007, 04:12 AM
the RENDER engine, coz its dang slow and falling further and further behind the competition. (mem allocation, speed, materials)


mlon

starbase1
07-12-2007, 04:39 AM
Now I think of it - better handling of large polygon counts - its behind Vue by a factor of at least a thousand...

hrgiger
07-12-2007, 06:54 AM
I think Newtek is doing just fine. They are already well aware of what the vast majority of Lightwave users are requesting and what work needs done on the core to make those things happen. There are countless polls and threads already on the matter and another one serves little purpose except to possibly invoke our imagination of what might be going on behind the scenes.

Pavlov
07-12-2007, 07:05 AM
Voted for render engine, but what i think is a bit different; imho architectural changes are at top of the list. Modeler-layout integration and up-to-date core are more iomportant than any feature.
Second in my list is SDK, LW is cheap and it would be a big player if it could be a good platform for, say, Vray, ODE, Motionbuilder, Zbrush and so on. Market is going *dedicated*, top quality tools popping out are more and more *dedicated*: Zbrush, Maxwell-Vray, Messiah-MotionBuilder, and so on. Being a part of this game is crucial, and while out-of-the-box features are still important i think it' even moer important to be a "hum" between all these new single task tools. Example: i prefer to get a seamless link to Zbrush intead of getting a much more weak sculpting toolset into LW. i prefer to be able to use Vray instead of having "just" a good engine into LW.
BTW a proper core restructuring is needed, and that's why i put it as first. SDK wide-opening to this new scenario is immediately after.
Every other single feature is from third on.

Paolo

Andyjaggy
07-12-2007, 07:12 AM
Yeah come to think of it memory management in Layout. This could go hand in hand with the modeler stuff though. We need an overall increase and ability to handle larger poly counts.

sammael
07-12-2007, 09:22 AM
CA and improved modeling tools are the top of my wish list but I also voted for other because I desperately crave instancing. The ability to render more complex scenes and opengl improvements in terms of the amount of geometry that can be handled in the viewport would be nice as well, just to name a few things.

Gaze
07-12-2007, 09:22 AM
:dance: Once again I'm asking for customizable User Coordinate System system. I want to be able to spin the xyz planes around any way I like while modelling. And integrated snaps.

You do have meetings about this kind of stuff, right? tap tap...is this thing on?

Matt
07-12-2007, 12:40 PM
Improved workflow in all departments should be high on the list, as this will benefit everyone.

theo
07-12-2007, 12:55 PM
God, this topic is getting old far quicker than it ever used to for me!

Steamthrower
07-12-2007, 01:04 PM
Workflow in LW doesn't bother me as I consider workflow (and clarity of navigation) to be one of its strong points. What I wish for however is more intuitive and easier-to-customise particle effects, and completely revamped CA.

I did a project a few months back for a client - this animation was quite simple but it involved a lot of particles going into a receptacle. Just giving them collision detection and all that was way too much of a hassle.

SaturnX
07-12-2007, 01:07 PM
I voted Render Engine.... What it does now are good, but apparently there are two things that is missing:

1. Good memory-management of displacements.
2. Way more flexible/artist friendly renderlayer/buffer exporters.

I can handle myself pretty good with the current setup of multiple scenefiles and renderbuffers, but new users comming from Maya/XSI (who wants to use LW for the renderer) may find it difficult and convoluted....

Memory management concerning zbrush displacement maps... IS pain !
Anything above 3million polys, and layout chokes at rendering.

Zbrush is here to stay NewTek.. ;)

gerry_g
07-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Proper I/O's with prefs, doesn't sound much but ATM they're bloody crap, .obj's a disgrace, .3ds is just plain broken, Y is often inverted to other aps and scale is crazy fidelity of import is often poor (notably with .obj) of all the aps I use Lightwave has by far and away the worst and most pathetically small list of broken I/O's Iv'e ever seen, I don't like to knock the ap but one of the most consistant things we do is bring stuff in and out, are you realy happy with them?

starbase1
07-13-2007, 06:57 AM
:agree:
:agree: :agree: :agree:

starbase1
07-13-2007, 07:15 AM
Here's a really easy one - I seem to remember that loads of us said how much we liked the extra info on the rendering panel, really useful, and I suspect minimal effort.

Wouldn't it be nice to improve the stats panel in modeler?

What I have in mind are things like being able to show a table of counts by surface type, a table of counts by layer (with the layer name beside it to make things clear), maybe a one click option to select the non-planar, one & 2 point polys for cleaning up.

By table I mean showing the whole lot at once.

While I am at the simple stuff, I Think the most common dumb thing I do in modeler is try and select something while a tool is still active, but this does not show because it is in a different tab. It would be seriously useful to have the current active tool highlighted in the status bar, or somewhere else I can always see it clearly.

Nick

Stooch
07-13-2007, 05:04 PM
Does anyone else feel like we are all of the sudden stuck in an anti-lightwave movement. It's like we all woke up two days ago and decided that we all hate lightwave. It would be nice to hear a nice "this is what's going on" word from Newtek. That would definately boost moral. Maybe a sneak peak at some of the stuff they have been working on........... hello. anyone.


no not at all.
not a movement just a professional opinion and i hate it when people that take it for what its not. (if you are doing that)

its the truth. deal with it.

Lewis
07-14-2007, 02:03 PM
Modeler, modeler, modeler and again modeler :). Too many years has pass by without proper modeler upgrade (beside new openGL which is great nothing BIG happend in modeler since days of 6.0). My 2nd favorite would be NEW lighting system (parametric lights/real IES/LDT lightvs..) and 3rd Continue on improving render/radiosity like it's been started in 9.2.

UbiGuy
07-15-2007, 01:33 AM
History (or Stack).... and Modeler/Layout Integration.

Personnally I think it's the bigest lack of lightwave. A lot of VFX need them... Advance deformation and complexe setup are so easy when you can animate modeling tool... When the software remember the modeling history it's so fast to modify a scene or an object.

Houdini example...
http://www.sidefx.com/images/stories/blogs/houdini9_blog/NodeWorkflow/procedural_forest.mov

I work a lot with XSI and 3DSMax... LW still a good software for me, but in many cases it's a lot faster to do complexe scene in others software.

I think Particle dynamic and Hypervoxel need upgrade too... A real Event Base particle system like 3DSMax have is far more better, beleve me... And Hypervoxel shading show is age...

Verlon
07-15-2007, 02:06 AM
another vote for CA, but anything on that list would be nice.

Of course, other opinions vary, and you can hardly count on a forum survey for marketing research...but I place my vote.

lots
07-15-2007, 09:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong :P but aren't Improved CA and modeling tools on the slate for a future release of LW?

Isn't it then a bit silly to separate these two from "Newtek should maintain the actual line of development, no changes" ?

j__
07-15-2007, 10:21 PM
"New rig and integrated functional Character Animation system"

OK I voted for this, but despite the fact I have been moaning about it recently, at the same time, I do hope NT can actually build on what's good there, because there is actually quite a bit that is good there.

I think actually if they can get vertex level and vmap edits directly into Layout so you can perform them live on your character, I think would this would make an enormous difference to begin with and a lot of things would start to make sense as never before.

I do agree though the animation, deformation system itself could do with a big overhaul.

theo
07-15-2007, 10:40 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong :P but aren't Improved CA and modeling tools on the slate for a future release of LW?

Isn't it then a bit silly to separate these two from "Newtek should maintain the actual line of development, no changes" ?

Hence my almost utter lack of interest in these lines of thought these days.

It's all just turning into a repetitive vortex of need that generally terminates into a convoluted battle of 3D app measurements.

Just let the Newtek people develop! They already have their development roadmap in place, it's been stated more than once. WHY this subject has to be rehashed so blasted often is just plain mystery beans to me, particularly in light of the fact that Roth has already stated that CA development is in the worx now.

They are not going to develop 14 major sections of the app in one pass.

ben martin
07-16-2007, 04:23 AM
WHY this subject has to be rehashed so blasted often is just plain mystery beans to me, particularly in light of the fact that Roth has already stated that CA development is in the worx now.

They are not going to develop 14 major sections of the app in one pass.
Lots and Theo,

A lot have been said but not much has been done along the years.
Releases after release CA tools never were really improved/changed since V6.
Maybe the biggest add-on was IKB but that clearly is not the tool animators are asking for!

You are free to disagree with this pool but keep in mind that no one here is buzzing or ***** around; in fact we do care about Lightwave.
Because of that we state (like the pool reflects) that CA tools and the other relevant points in this pool should be a development priority.

All people here know/realize that this pool is not going to change Newtek plans.
Our hope is that if Newtek read this pool they can interpret it correctly and care a little about what the community thinks.

We only wish that good CA tools can be release soon instead hold-on to "Lightwave 35 version release" but then and again it must be a complete revolution in CA because the other tools are keep growing as well!

Thank you for your point of view though! :)

Lightwolf
07-16-2007, 04:47 AM
Hm, since these aren't on the list:

* Consolidation of Modeler tools, strip duplicates and merge the functionality, make them selection mode aware
* A revamp of the animation core in Layout, with more procedurality as well as NLA in mind
* Faster deformation speeds, especially in Layout

CA tools can imho be added on top of that later on, but the basics need to be there. Next on my list would be passes in Layout I suppose.

Cheers,
Mike

lots
07-16-2007, 07:10 PM
Lots and Theo,

A lot have been said but not much has been done along the years.
Releases after release CA tools never were really improved/changed since V6.
Maybe the biggest add-on was IKB but that clearly is not the tool animators are asking for!

You are free to disagree with this pool but keep in mind that no one here is buzzing or ***** around; in fact we do care about Lightwave.
Because of that we state (like the pool reflects) that CA tools and the other relevant points in this pool should be a development priority.

All people here know/realize that this pool is not going to change Newtek plans.
Our hope is that if Newtek read this pool they can interpret it correctly and care a little about what the community thinks.

We only wish that good CA tools can be release soon instead hold-on to "Lightwave 35 version release" but then and again it must be a complete revolution in CA because the other tools are keep growing as well!

Thank you for your point of view though! :)
In the passed, I'd agree with you. But NT's current direction, and work, say otherwise.

Jay and the rest have stated several times that CA tools are coming during the 9 cycle. Many have speculated in the next 9.x. I have also heard somewhere that modeler is getting a clean up.. I can't remember where. Anyway, I believe NT this time around. It is a new team after all..

IMI
07-16-2007, 08:03 PM
I voted Others: Specify please
1. Better OGL
2. Better UV tools (although there are nice plugins for this, so this would be a low priority)
3. Integrated 3D/UV view painting. I think it'd especially be a hoot to somehow be able to paint hypervoxels on a UV-mapped model.
4. "Breakaway", palletes and viewports which can also be duplicated.
5. A better VIPER which rivals FPrime, but can do what FPrime can't: Shadow maps and caustics.

But mostly, better OGL response in Layout, if nothing else. It's such a drag to be slowed down moving things around on even a modest scene. Terribly aggravating at times.

ben martin
07-17-2007, 05:35 AM
"The only time you worry about a soldier is when he stops bitchin'."
I believe you know what I mean!

If not I explain (I'm sorry because English is not my primary idiom and sometimes I can fail to express myself like I should)

I meant: "No one here is attacking Lightwave or telling it sucks!"
We are only requesting improvements!

Anyway, thanks for you comment! :)