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creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 10:41 AM
OK, enough about Maya. I'm curious to hear from anyone who has experience in both XSI and Lightwave to see how they compare.

scratch33
07-09-2007, 10:58 AM
:D :goodluck: :lol:

Dodgy
07-09-2007, 10:58 AM
Noooooooo!!!!!!!

Titus
07-09-2007, 11:05 AM
Blender beats LW hands down, it has a monkey primitive.

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 11:06 AM
:D Hehehe....

SBowie
07-09-2007, 11:40 AM
I actually find these comparisons quite informative, if you can sift through the invective ...

alifx
07-09-2007, 11:46 AM
If I was a moderator

I'd say to this thread "GO TO HELL!!", and delete it...

No benefits from this thread except that you are destroying our hopes on Lightwave.

alifx
07-09-2007, 11:48 AM
LW vs All the world

there will be no HOPE on LW after these all pessimistic threads.

why just newtek don't delete them.

I avoid to tell my student to visit NT forums because of these threads.

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 11:54 AM
If I was a moderator

I'd say to this thread "GO TO HELL!!", and delete it...

No benefits from this thread except that you are destroying our hopes on Lightwave.

Are you nuts? It is always helpful to look at the competition and see where improvement can be made. After a close look, the competition often doesn't shine as bright as it seemed to before. I've heard good and bad reports on XSI and I was interested in seeing what areas we're doing well in and what areas need work. No point in putting our heads in the sand...it's always usefull to keep an eye open. Also, who says LW is the only ap to use? Sometimes more than one is helpful.

alifx
07-09-2007, 12:01 PM
hey you sillycontrol ...

you know CGtalk?

it's the biggest community for 3D

go and post your competition there... and let me know if they not deleted you post.

just search the forums here, there are hundreds of threads that talks about xsi vs lw.... go and read them no need to post a new one.

pooby
07-09-2007, 12:04 PM
Lw and XSI complement each other perfectly.. where one lacks, the other shines.

Animation and Rendering


(Well, not that XSI lacks in rendering (on the contrary in fact), but LW is much more straightforward, looks great has unlimited nodes, and has Fprime, which in my case, makes using LW a must)

There is no comparison in animation and rigging terms. XSI wins hands down. I think all that have experience of both would agree.

I wouldnt recommend completely dropping LW for XSI, but for anyone who wants a great animation solution, then its a fantastic addition.

GandB
07-09-2007, 12:19 PM
I've thought about getting XS:Foundation before, to compliment my Lightwave. Nothing wrong with having multiple programs to get the job done. :)

-Keith

jasonwestmas
07-09-2007, 12:33 PM
I have to agree with Pooby these days. . .;)

SplineGod
07-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Are you nuts? It is always helpful to look at the competition and see where improvement can be made. After a close look, the competition often doesn't shine as bright as it seemed to before. I've heard good and bad reports on XSI and I was interested in seeing what areas we're doing well in and what areas need work. No point in putting our heads in the sand...it's always usefull to keep an eye open. Also, who says LW is the only ap to use? Sometimes more than one is helpful.

Id like to see an example of improvements that have come from just one of these so called comparitive threads. They ALWAYS do nothing more then create problems because most of the time they degenerate into 'LW sucks' threads.

archijam
07-09-2007, 12:38 PM
Alright! XSI+LW vs. the world!

Bring em on ;) ...

j.

jasonwestmas
07-09-2007, 12:52 PM
All I really have to say is thanks to Newtek for making Lightwave far more 3rd party friendly!

Many thanks to the big yet small "NT"!

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Lw and XSI complement each other perfectly.. where one lacks, the other shines.

Animation and Rendering


(Well, not that XSI lacks in rendering (on the contrary in fact), but LW is much more straightforward, looks great has unlimited nodes, and has Fprime, which in my case, makes using LW a must)

There is no comparison in animation and rigging terms. XSI wins hands down. I think all that have experience of both would agree.

I wouldnt recommend completely dropping LW for XSI, but for anyone who wants a great animation solution, then its a fantastic addition.


Thanks for the info. I do like modeling in LW but don't know how XSI compares. I also heard that Mental Ray can be frustrating.

Does XSI have anything like Hypervoxels? If so how good is it?

I would never drop LW, it's I love it but it's nice to see what can be added.

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 01:44 PM
Id like to see an example of improvements that have come from just one of these so called comparitive threads. They ALWAYS do nothing more then create problems because most of the time they degenerate into 'LW sucks' threads.

Well it shouldn't! LW stands up quite well in many areas.

We have a chance to suggest new features and it's good to see what others are doing. I don't have any experience with XSI so I'm curious. If another package really shines in some area, why not look at it and see if it can be matched or better?

jasonwestmas
07-09-2007, 02:22 PM
XSI has a particle system but I think lightwave tends to outshine in that department. I'm looking forward to the next "Dynamite" update maybe that will happen this august. Dynamite has some awesome effects for creating fluid animations of fire. But like some of the material nodes it is very render intensive.

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 02:29 PM
XSI has a particle system but I think lightwave tends to outshine in that department. I'm looking forward to the next "Dynamite" update maybe that will happen this august. Dynamite has some awesome effects for creating fluid animations of fire. But like some of the material nodes it is very render intensive.

It did look fantastic and I really had high hopes for it but in testing it seemed very unstable and painfully slow and didn't multi-thread well. Also difficult to get the desired look, maybe just practice would help. I sure hope there is an update, I'll gladly buy it if it actually works at some point.

*Pete*
07-09-2007, 02:31 PM
Oh noes!

Who'll be first with the Blender vs. LightWave thread? Or did we already do that one? :p

Or what about a TrueSpace comparison, they have all kinds of nice DirectX viewport stuff that LW users can salivate over :p

LW vs Maya comes up often, actually...but how about LW vs Max??

considering that Max is a "hate object" for LW users (some of us more than others maybe) it could turn out intresting....but Maya, well...its boring to compare with as it is all tech-talk :(

jasonwestmas
07-09-2007, 02:37 PM
It did look fantastic and I really had high hopes for it but in testing it seemed very unstable and painfully slow and didn't multi-thread well. Also difficult to get the desired look, maybe just practice would help. I sure hope there is an update, I'll gladly buy it if it actually works at some point.

Dynamite hasn't crashed on me yet but it will if you use multiple threads, it doesn't work with that. I engulfed an entire charcter in fire once, it was pretty easy but took a long time to render of course. The plugin is a real steal IMO.

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 03:24 PM
Dynamite hasn't crashed on me yet but it will if you use multiple threads, it doesn't work with that. I engulfed an entire charcter in fire once, it was pretty easy but took a long time to render of course. The plugin is a real steal IMO.

When I get a chance, I'll have to give it another go. The demos look really cool. Having a quad core with no multi-threading kinda turns me off but hopefully some day...

creativecontrol
07-09-2007, 03:27 PM
LW vs Maya comes up often, actually...but how about LW vs Max??

considering that Max is a "hate object" for LW users (some of us more than others maybe) it could turn out intresting....but Maya, well...its boring to compare with as it is all tech-talk :(

I'm not sure about most people, but for me it's not so much Max I hate it's the company (autodesk). I think this stems from when I had to use autocad which really was horrible way back. Of course stinky autodesk now owns Maya too which I think will not be a good thing in the long run.

SplineGod
07-09-2007, 04:08 PM
Well it shouldn't! LW stands up quite well in many areas.

We have a chance to suggest new features and it's good to see what others are doing. I don't have any experience with XSI so I'm curious. If another package really shines in some area, why not look at it and see if it can be matched or better?

I agree but theres a small but loud contingent here that doesnt agree. :)

Stooch
07-09-2007, 04:37 PM
If I was a moderator

I'd say to this thread "GO TO HELL!!", and delete it...

No benefits from this thread except that you are destroying our hopes on Lightwave.

I am glad that you arent.

Stooch
07-09-2007, 04:42 PM
LW vs All the world

there will be no HOPE on LW after these all pessimistic threads.

why just newtek don't delete them.

I avoid to tell my student to visit NT forums because of these threads.

hey if you are so depressed why dont you get a prescription? i dont care how pessimistic you think facts are. if you want a shoulder to cry on, go ask your mother. Infact i doubt anyone here cares at all about your mood when posting in these types of threads.

i will offer only one observation (due to limited exposure to XSI).

Newtek should study xsi closely, beacause thats how CA tools ought to be done. even maya can learn a thing or two. but im sure t4d can fill in all the details. although I understand if he chooses to avoid the riff raff on here, after seeing how ungrateful and hostile some people are to hearing the truth, they simply dont deserve it imo.

Titus
07-09-2007, 04:50 PM
hey you sillycontrol ...

you know CGtalk?

it's the biggest community for 3D

go and post your competition there... and let me know if they not deleted you post.
.

This site is not CGtalk, right?

alifx
07-09-2007, 11:26 PM
it was totally not a respected reply from me :)

I apologize to you creativecontrol, I shouldn't reply in that way

we all brothers :)

colkai
07-10-2007, 02:29 AM
Noooooooo!!!!!!!
Ka-Booommm!!!!!

Here we go again, another Flame-bait thread. Tell ya, "Call the FireHouse!"



(Virtual beer for who can give me the album that's off!)

pooby
07-10-2007, 02:47 AM
The only detrimental thing in this thread is people complaining about the way they think this thread might go

Personally I feel that the time for griping about LW has passed. It may not be a great modern animation tool at present but we have been told by Newtek that the animation is going to be worked on in the future,
We also have witnessed that the rendering improvements have been fantastic in the last year, so there is little reason to doubt Newtek.

I have seen a shift in the last year towards people accepting other apps for their strong points rather than seeing them as competition. I think that's a healthy state of affairs.
I don't like the idea of Learning say, Maya, (lazyness mainly) but if there was something I really needed that it had to offer, and neither LW or XSI could, then I'd go for it.

Mr Rid
07-10-2007, 03:08 AM
Id like to see an example of improvements that have come from just one of these so called comparitive threads.

I would too, and maybe it could happen if only Newtek would ever actually listen to the experienced professionals who know what they are talking about. Between the quibbling and ignorant fanboy bias there are some great objective points made about where LW most desperately needs improvement. Yet Newtek just keeps polishing the turd that LW character tools are. Why are they content with having the least effective set of character tools, when this is the most competitive aspect of 3D apps? If it were my company, LW would be the premiere, industry standard, 3D app. Why settle for so much less?



They ALWAYS do nothing more then create problems because most of the time they degenerate into 'LW sucks' threads.

An over generalization. It isnt 'always'. Many learn something they didnt know before about how LW compares to other apps, the strengths and weaknesses. If only Newtek would pay attention to those valid points made, over and over and over... then maybe it wouldnt have to keep coming up.
And LW does suck in many areas when compared to other tools. Why pretend it is more than it actually is? It seems Newtek and the fanboys can not stand the slightest criticism, no matter how informed it may be.

But what does 'ALWAYS' inflame these comparison discussions are LW fans with their prideful defensiveness and lack of informed objectivity.

cresshead
07-10-2007, 07:10 AM
just popping in to say i use 3dsmax and lightsnack and both are rather nice!

creativecontrol
07-10-2007, 11:39 AM
Ka-Booommm!!!!!

Here we go again, another Flame-bait thread. Tell ya, "Call the FireHouse!"



(Virtual beer for who can give me the album that's off!)



Ummm, not intended to be a flame-bait. I was thinking of adding XSI and just wanted a good comparison from people who have used both, and in particular are familiar with LW since that's where most of my experience is. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it and how difficult the learning curve would be. If there's no real advantage than why bother? If there is, then I'd best get on it. I wanted some opinions that weren't biased against LW right off as some forums are.

Also, if there are great tools on XSI it would be good to push for similar features now that LW is in constant development.

SP00
07-10-2007, 03:17 PM
I used 3D max extensively. All I can say it that Lightwave is easiler to model, light, render, work in a teams due to the content directory. The only think that I missed about 3D max that lightwave does not have are parameters that you can animate and rigging tools. That is the weakest part of Lightwave, but that is about it. Everything else is minor. They are working on this for the next update. The next update should have better animation and rigging tools, so it kinda worth it to wait. Sorry, forgot this was a XSI comparison.

3D Kiwi
07-10-2007, 03:44 PM
I do most my modeling and animating in XSI and just render out in lightwave, If you were to compare XSI to Lightwave feature for feature, XSI would win hands down, its only draw back for me are lack of render nodes, You have to buy mental ray licence for each node, and also lack of real world measurements. Other than that it is one of the best 3D apps i have used.
But the XSI to lightwave is a great pipeline, esp with pointoven and the free FBX pluging for lightwave. As for XSI particals, they give you much more control than lightwaves but i dont know anyway of getting the partical data into lightwave so i dont really use them all that much. Best way to treat XSI if you are a lightwave user is as a plugin, use it for what it is good for and take that back into lightwave. I cant see Lightwaves CA tools being up to XSIs for a long time (it is well known that XSI CA tools are considered the best of any 3D app out of the box) so if you plan on doing charactor animation then XSI is a must. And also XSI ESS and Adv has Rigid body dynamics which you can take into Lightwave as well, so it solves that LW problem to.

jasonwestmas
07-10-2007, 08:05 PM
How is lw cad and fprime going to deliver modern CA tools? Actually the main reason people use outside CA tools is so they don't have to hunt down several plugins that may or may not work with the current version of lw or eachother. I think any seasoned xsi user will tell you that it's the disconnected workflow that is created by adding too many plugins that have turned off users from using lightwave in respects of CA. So respectfully, people here use XSI mostly for the CA capabilities. CA has not been first priority for NT, not that NT wanted it that way but because they needed to FIRST perfect what LW was best at offering and that was affordable, better than average Rendering.

3D Kiwi
07-10-2007, 08:13 PM
How is lw cad and fprime going to deliver modern CA tools? Actually the main reason people use outside CA tools is so they don't have to hunt down several plugins that may or may not work with the current version of lw or eachother. I think any seasoned xsi user will tell you that it's the disconnected workflow that is created by adding too many plugins that have turned off users from using lightwave in respects of CA. So respectfully, people here use XSI mostly for the CA capabilities. CA has not been first priority for NT, not that NT wanted it that way but because they needed to FIRST perfect what LW was best at offering and that was affordable, better than average Rendering.

You hit the nail on the head there, Lightwave is an affordable render engine, My questain is why have they limited it to 999 render nodes? And i wonder if that could put off larger companies that have access to farms with over 999 nodes to choosing Lightwave as there render package. The only other option i know of for free render nodes is Max with its unlimited Mental ray nodes, and i also think that includes Vray with Backburner. But it does cost a lot more per seat.

jasonwestmas
07-10-2007, 08:39 PM
I heared from Pooby or James or some other rendering guru that 999 was just a basic figure. That you actually have unlimited nodes with a single license. I'm not positive how that would work but I for one would never have a use for more than a dozen nodes. I'm a lonesome freelancer :)

3D Kiwi
07-10-2007, 08:48 PM
There has to be some truth in the 999 nodes, otherwise why would you advertise 999 if you could have unlimited?? I rember a thread ages ago saying to run more then 999 node you would have to have two screamernet networks running.
I would never have the need for that many either but if you were building a company and planned on being rather large then it could be a factor to not use lightwave.

Titus
07-10-2007, 08:49 PM
, My questain is why have they limited it to 999 render nodes? And i wonder if that could put off larger companies that have access to farms with over 999 nodes to choosing Lightwave as there render package.

Are you serious? do you find a problem with LW giving only 999 nodes?

I've seen Pixar's render farm working, they need to have special tools just for the content management. It's not like you just push the render button and wait.

3D Kiwi
07-10-2007, 08:57 PM
are you for real, Pixar dont have a render button, dont belive it....

I didnt say i have a problem with it, but it could just be limiting that was all i was thinking, like i said i wont ever need that many.

jasonwestmas
07-10-2007, 09:09 PM
3D Kiwi, I remembered what the thread said reguarding unlimitd render nodes. . .It's screamernet that has the 999 limit. If you use other 3rd party network rendering software you can have access to more than 999 Nodes. If you do a search you'll find some goodies.

Titus
07-10-2007, 09:30 PM
are you for real, Pixar dont have a render button, dont belive it....

I didnt say i have a problem with it, but it could just be limiting that was all i was thinking, like i said i wont ever need that many.

You're right, they have this little leprechaun pushing a button.

3D Kiwi
07-10-2007, 09:34 PM
I knew it, I have watch heaps of behind the scenes pixar docs and all they seam to do is ride on scooters.

I hope they pay the leprechaun well.