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View Full Version : Any way to automatically flip a mirror shot?



m.d.
07-03-2007, 09:03 AM
I just finished 3 weeks of shooting, and during that shooting we had a lot of overhead shots done with a mirror....
Now I'm into post and i have to manually flip a lot of those mirror shots.

Would there have been any way to do this live, while switching?

SBowie
07-03-2007, 10:50 AM
Nothing comes to mind that would work live, but you could fix them all in a heartbeat using the ToolShed.

PSegarra
07-03-2007, 12:16 PM
Do the first flip manually save it using toolshed then all you have to do is highlight the clips you want to flip.

Jim Capillo
07-03-2007, 12:16 PM
Years ago we did it live by using two mirrors (the first framed on the second which was framed down on the drummer), so the image came out right side up. You have to have plenty of light and be careful with reflections, positioning, etc.

Pete Draves
07-03-2007, 01:41 PM
some cameras have a flip hidden in the menu system for the camera.
Pete

ScorpioProd
07-03-2007, 02:39 PM
Isn't there a DVE that does this and one can just pause it half way on the T-bar when it's mirrored and record that?

m.d.
07-03-2007, 09:57 PM
it's a little more complicated then it seems to fix...
since it's interlaced, and a live switch, you get overlapping feilds from 2 cameras during a switch, 1 from the mirror shot, and the other from the normal shot. If you flip that inbetween frame you will get a nasty jump becaude the field from the non flipped camera also has to be flipped....

so i've been deleting the overlapping fielded frames, and duplicating adjacent frames...still not that big a deal, but i wish i knew how to write s script that would do it for me.


Isn't there a DVE that does this and one can just pause it half way on the T-bar when it's mirrored and record that?

thats' a clever solution.....just might work
I would need something I could cut to instantly though....probably requires some scripting

SBowie
07-04-2007, 06:50 AM
Sorry, I was thinking of an horizontal flip only. Even so, vertical flipping in post is not impossible. Live is more challenging, naturally. Still, it would likely be possible - with some effort - to create a DVE that effectively did this, by compromising - shift the source one line while flipping vertically.

billmi
07-04-2007, 07:07 AM
Should be easy to do in a DVE, but how practical would that be to actually use in a live switch? You'd want the flip DVE always at 50% anytime you cut to that one camera, and not used the rest of the time.

Using the DVE approach I would not expect field order to be an issue, since the stream of video gets re-rasterized when passing through the effect.

Once we get our hands on VT[5] perhaps the virtual set engine might give that capability - depends on how they build it. Obviously it's going to have to lock an individual key and background to each camera - if it can lock a DVE or effect file to each camera, then it might be possible to use a mirror/DVE with it.

byte_fx
07-04-2007, 11:42 AM
I have no way of checking this without forcibly unmounting a mirror and lugging it into another room.

And I haven't had occassion to check it out previously.

Plus - it's probably basically stupid.

Anyway - what would the result be if you used two mirrors and shot the second mirror reflecting the first mirror reflecting the scene?

Would that correct the left/right flip?

And would shooting with the camera upside down correct the vertical flip?

Probably not but thought I'd ask.

byte_fx

bbeanan
07-04-2007, 02:51 PM
what about a teleprompter inverter box???

m.d.
07-05-2007, 10:28 AM
byte_fx
no that's not a stupid idea, infact i suggested it.
2 issues though
1. we were getting bands of soft focus, because of mirror warps...and other issues because of mirror imperfections, with 2 mirrors it would likely compound any defects.
2. we were using a reasonably long zoom lens, and on an extremely tight detail shot(which you would use a mirror) we were getting just enough zoom,with the double mirror setup....you would further increase the path of light and also the zoom, you would then require a longer lens, and have to deal with the shakiness aspect.

also it's even harder to frame up without shooting off ect.
we were using 1 camera for closeups and mirror closeups, so we had to worry about shooting off the edge of the mirror when following the action.
not a dumb idea to use 2 mirrors, would just have to be taken into consideration with some of the problems it would introduce.

still the best would be a software or hardware flipper!!!

m.d.
07-05-2007, 10:31 AM
bbeanan,
i'm not familiar with teleprompters, is this a hardware box that could flip an incoming signal?

if so that could also be a solution, just split off the camera's signal,run it through the inverter,and assign it a different switcher input,say 3 for regular shots 4 for mirror shots...

John Perkins
07-05-2007, 09:20 PM
This isn't available today, but...

This is a perfect use for the LiveSet effects in VT5 or TriCaster Studio.

I don't think that people are thinking of them this way, but they can also be general purpose realtime effects on a per input basis. We already have ones that convert between aspect ratios with either letterboxing or cropping for example.

Having utility effects for mirror horizontal and vertical could be useful.

bbeanan
07-07-2007, 10:06 AM
John you tease.... as we all sit here WAITING for over a year for our VT5...

Doctor here is the heart for the transplant... oh he died.... I guess I should have not stopped for lunch and that 1 year nap was not a good idea either...