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View Full Version : If weight maps were this easy



Mr Rid
07-02-2007, 11:07 AM
Example-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/vdhydcn6me.mov

If only it were as easy to slide, rotate, scale, swap, feather and invert weight maps as it is with texture maps. In fact, why not texture maps to influence bones since there is already a texture editor in Layout where we can see the feedback?

gerry_g
07-02-2007, 11:52 AM
Isn't this the usual dichotomy i.e.– the one between how the programmer imagines such a thing might be implimented and how an artist assumes it has/should have been implemented.......and yes the way it works in the vid is just how it should be

Surrealist.
07-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Example-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/vdhydcn6me.mov

If only it were as easy to slide, rotate, scale, swap, feather and invert weight maps as it is with texture maps. In fact, why not texture maps to influence bones since there is already a texture editor in Layout where we can see the feedback?

The reason is that for displacements, fine, you are dealing with only one channel. Weight maps, though very versatile and useful for texturing and even displacement, have a very specific function and technology when applied to bones and it is no longer that simple.

Weight mapping for bones requires calculating the maps for more than one bone at a time and for each point on the object more than one map.

Each point on an object has to have at total of only 100% of any combination of maps.

So a Hip point might have 10% Thigh map, 80% Pelvis map and 10% Spine 1 map. Whatever the combination, there can only be a total of 100% or you get bad deformations on those points.

To feather the Thigh map one way or the other now requires also feathering the other two maps. 90%, 5% and 5% and so on.

This is why weight mapping for bones is very tedious and also why many prefer not to use them for bones.

So in order to have that kind of interactivity you would have to be able to view more than one map at a time and also be able to automatically feather multiple maps on the fly based on which map you were editing.

Now if we could get that as a feature for weight maps.

Sign me up!

:)

gerry_g
07-02-2007, 02:17 PM
Yes but what's to stop you having a master channel to handle the global value of all maps similar to the way Modo lets you set Diffuse, Specular and Glossiness but then lets you apply conserve energy to pull everything down to a total of a 100% without upsetting relative values of each channel.......not that I know what I'm on about

loki74
07-02-2007, 02:44 PM
Yes but what's to stop you having a master channel to handle the global value of all maps similar to the way Modo lets you set Diffuse, Specular and Glossiness but then lets you apply conserve energy to pull everything down to a total of a 100% without upsetting relative values of each channel.......not that I know what I'm on about


now there's an idea!

Surrealist.
07-02-2007, 04:18 PM
Yes but what's to stop you having a master channel to handle the global value of all maps similar to the way Modo lets you set Diffuse, Specular and Glossiness but then lets you apply conserve energy to pull everything down to a total of a 100% without upsetting relative values of each channel.......not that I know what I'm on about


There is a Weight Normalization button in the bones panel which basically covers your a.s.s.

Be nice to have some kind of new approach to painting maps though wouldn't it?

But I am not too sure it is practical for bone use because it is still just too complex of an operation and you could not expect to just paint away and get good results by turning on Normalization.

Dodgy
07-02-2007, 06:05 PM
You can normalise all maps together in Vertex paint.

Surrealist.
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
Yeah that's right, I forgot. Don't use it very much. Interesting little app with some good features for painting maps.

Dave Jerrard
08-11-2007, 06:48 PM
Isn't this the usual dichotomy i.e. the one between how the programmer imagines such a thing might be implimented and how an artist assumes it has/should have been implemented.......and yes the way it works in the vid is just how it should be

Actually, you CAN interactively adjust weights in Modeler, much like is shown in tha video, as you can see in these videos. I spent more time setting up the capture software to grab these than I did actually doing the stuff in Modeler. In fact, I spent far more time trying to attach one of these to this message since I couldn't upload the animated GIF for some reason. Without the capture software running, it's a lot smoother. You might need the Techsmith codec for the quicktime, though I'm not sure; it's been a long time since I made these.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/davejerrard/Weights.gif


You DO have full access to the entire LightWave texturing engine for weightmapping, if you use the Textured Points tool, which has been part of LightWave since around version 6.5. If you have Denis Pontonnier's plugins, then you even have access to the entire (well, the feasible parts) nodal system as well, through his Node Layer tool. You can see the weightmap update in near realtime as you make adjustments (a bit faster than you see in these vids). As I mentioned, it took me very little time to do these - just load an object, create a weightmap, open Textured Ponts, load an image, and start adjusting things. Getting these vids attached to this message, on the other hand, was upwards of over 40 minutes, since I could't directly upload the animated gif from my computer.


He Who Wishes File Transfers Were As Simple As LightWave.

Nicolas Jordan
08-11-2007, 11:04 PM
Very interesting technique there Dave! It always amazes me how much depth Lightwaves tool set has.

Ztreem
08-12-2007, 03:54 AM
I don't try to start any flame war of which 3D software is the best. I don't use XSI my self, I just saw this video and was amazed how they can work with multicolor weightmaps and paint in real time over a deformed mesh. Look it up. http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/videos.aspx?video_id=23

voriax
08-12-2007, 06:35 PM
I don't try to start any flame war of which 3D software is the best. I don't use XSI my self, I just saw this video and was amazed how they can work with multicolor weightmaps and paint in real time over a deformed mesh. Look it up. http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/videos.aspx?video_id=23

That is kinda cool. This sort of thing should(?) be doable when (if) all the modeler editing tools get ported to Layout - dunno about the multi-colour part though, but I'm sure someone can write a plugin.
Modifying weight maps in layout would be so very handy.

papou
08-19-2007, 11:36 AM
If only it were as easy to ...

Im sure you would like to know about GradientWeightmap (http://lwplugdev.seesaa.net/category/128601-1.html) tool.
This plugin was write 3 years ago.

Don't forget to check Curve Extrude and other things...

a+
tais