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Chilton
06-26-2007, 08:52 PM
Hi,

So... anyone planning on standing in line to get an iPhone?

-Chilton

Danic101
06-26-2007, 10:03 PM
ah iphone the soon be largest product failure in history.

BazC
06-27-2007, 01:43 AM
If I could afford one I would! It's the coolest product ever!

Neverko why don't you just add "Apple products are trash" to your signature? It would save you a heck of a lot of typing!

Largemedium
06-27-2007, 02:03 AM
The topic was brought up about who's getting one. I stated why I'm not getting one.

Last time I looked, this wasn't the Apple Appreciation Forum. Though some certainly want it to be. I simply state my experiences as a consumer who's tired of Apple's crappy, cheaply manufactured products.

People who believe they buy quality when they buy Apple, are thoroughly deceived.

Wow, it looks like someone needs a nap. Seriously, your experience isn't typical for the product line. As a counterpoint to your generic attack on Apple, I've been using Apple products since 1994 and never experienced any of what you are complaining about. No offense, I just get tired of reading or hearing people complaning about this or that without backing up their statements with fact. Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but you should state it is such. And by the way, what do you consider "Quality" product in computers? Just curious.

Castius
06-27-2007, 02:07 AM
Weeee. I'll try LW on an Iphone if someone gives me one.

voriax
06-27-2007, 02:13 AM
I'm with Neverko on this one..
Really, what's with all the hype? Will the iphone revolutionise telephony? I doubt it. What was that line from the Simpsons .. "people who saw an overcrowded market and said, 'Me, too!'"

Apple's got amazing marketing skills, I'll give them that .. but i'd never buy their non-computer products. Even then I'd be a hard sell.

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 02:49 AM
Would love to. Sadly I live in that part of the world not on Steve Jobs' map - ie the bit outside North America.

(Still waiting for movies and TV on iTunes...)

For what it's worth, I am totally happy with all of my Apple products except Airport, which is overpriced and underpowered (although a doddle to set up). I've owned a series of Apple computers for about 12 years now and never - ever - had one fail on me. Ever.

tygryss
06-27-2007, 03:31 AM
what a stupid thing, iphone can run 3rd party apps just with safari via internet.
no chance to use lw on it :D

v1u1ant
06-27-2007, 03:38 AM
I thought Apple were already designing a new phone as they know this iPhone isnt very popular.

Phil
06-27-2007, 03:44 AM
- No 3rd party apps except those deliverable under Webkit *mutter* Without flash support, I'm also wondering how well those apps will function.
- Horribly expensive, and the service plans in the US also look expensive.
- No tactile interface, so using it without looking at it is troublesome (also an irritation with the iPod, especially post 3G designs)
- Surfing the web on a handheld device was never meant to be. It's cramped and I don't fancy scrolling endlessly around a limited view of the page at readable size.

It does look pretty, but since the terms of its provision are restrictive, I'm assuming the same will be true when it finally surfaces in the EU.

Phil
06-27-2007, 03:46 AM
Would love to. Sadly I live in that part of the world not on Steve Jobs' map - ie the bit outside North America.

(Still waiting for movies and TV on iTunes...)

For what it's worth, I am totally happy with all of my Apple products except Airport, which is overpriced and underpowered (although a doddle to set up). I've owned a series of Apple computers for about 12 years now and never - ever - had one fail on me. Ever.

All I wanted was a beefed up Mac Mini. I'm still of two minds whether to pick up one before they kill the line off entirely. iPhone wasn't needed, for me at least, but a beefed up Mac Mini would have been lovely.

jeremyhardin
06-27-2007, 04:46 AM
Hi,

So... anyone planning on standing in line to get an iPhone?

-Chilton

So... any devs planning on hacking the iPhone to run their 3d apps? :D:bowdown:

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 05:07 AM
The most amazing thing about the iPhone is the total yearly cost of ownership.

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Announces+iPhone+Rate+Plans+iTunes+Activatio n/article7842.htm

Another good reason why it sucks.

And in the same article there's this link:

http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7714

Showing the overwhelming level of interest in it.

Apple puts the suck in successful!

wavk
06-27-2007, 05:27 AM
apple - high prices for mediocre products.

i would never buy any apple product.

oh..and plz... focus on more important things..

lw on iphone??...yeh right..



mlon

Phil
06-27-2007, 05:35 AM
apple - high prices for mediocre products.

i would never buy any apple product.

mlon

That's certainly far from true these days. Whenever I've looked, Apple has shipped systems with a better configuration for less money than, say, Dell. I have been very impressed with the MBP (my first Mac, bought only based on price for the specification being lower than anything available elsewhere). The machine has been rock solid, fast, and is extremely portable. OS X has also been largely solid - two kernel panics around November last year and no issues since then.

I haven't touched my desktop PC since the MBP arrived. It is now doomed to serve in the renderfarm, along with various IBM and Dell laptops that have run out of grunt, until it dies a death.

The price comparison and Apple bashing was certainly warranted in the PowerPC days. Since the transition to Intel, their pricing has been very aggressive - even for desktop machines.

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 05:40 AM
wavk: I think you're confusing Apple with Microsoft.

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 05:43 AM
Shows just how good Apple is at marketing mediocre products. It's a universally known fact that people are sheep. :D

Just because you say it's mediocre doesn't make it so! Besides, I choose Apple products because I'm not a sheep - how's that Windows OS working out for ya? Baaa.

jeremyhardin
06-27-2007, 05:58 AM
I found this review enlightening...

http://solution.allthingsd.com/20070626/the-iphone-is-breakthrough-handheld-computer/

Matt
06-27-2007, 06:03 AM
I disagree that Apple's products are trash, compared to equivalents from other manufacturers they are a lot better put together (design aside).

And no I'm not an Apple fanboy, but I do have two iPods (Mini / new Nano)

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 06:24 AM
I found this review enlightening...

http://solution.allthingsd.com/20070626/the-iphone-is-breakthrough-handheld-computer/

Yeah, seems pretty thorough. Hopefully the version that finds its way to Europe will be a Mk.II with any issues ironed out and better features - and a better network provider from the sound of things.

(It should also have a feature that lets you stream video from your home computer so you can show off your LW animations to clients or bored people in the pub :) )

BeeVee
06-27-2007, 06:34 AM
Was that a typo Steve? Did you mean "or bore people in the pub?" ;)

he who is staying well and truly out of any discussion of the iPhone, but CNR this.

B

wavk
06-27-2007, 06:48 AM
hmm, dell, acer, hp those i dont even consider as companys and
wouldnt buy anything from them too ofcoz.
mass-production with cheap parts, no customer-support and modified os-es.

phil - i can get pc laptops for half the money than the same spec apple's and with exceptionally good materials and design.

yes apple's design team is doing a good job but other than that?...

mlon

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 07:05 AM
Cnr? Wtf?

(And why won't the forum let me do Three-Letter Abbreviations in caps?)

BeeVee
06-27-2007, 07:35 AM
Could Not Resist.

B

eagleeyed
06-27-2007, 08:07 AM
I will now put my two cents in about my opinion of Apple cos it seems that is where this thread has headed.

First off, I am going by Australian facts and prices, not American were the products are most likely different.

Now I will admit I am a dedicated PC user, however Windows is only ever on when I need to do animation. Any other time I am using Ubuntu Feisty Fawn with plugins that make some elements 'simular' to a Mac.

I have seriously looked into buying a Mac, but I could not justify paying nearly double the price for a different operating system and limited upgradibility. Now I build my PC's, I will never buy from the big guns cos you are paying hundreds just for the name, whether it be Acer, Toshiba, Dell and Apple. Becuase I buy parts from wholesalers, brand new with full guarantees as if they were brought in a shop, parts are cheap. When I saw the Mac's I nearly fainted. Asking near $1400 for an entry level computer with Integrated Graphics, no upgradibility etc (Mac Mini) is absolute ridiculous when I can buy a PC from Dick Smith Powerhouse with the same specs for $800.

iPods I will never buy, I have heard of so many of my friends ones just dying, you cant drop them cos they most likely will break without a protective case and they dont seem to have a life of more than 3 years.

I currently use my Mobile Phone as a MP3 Player, Sound quality is supurb, has a widescreen and navigation is easy. And the same pair of headphones work as a handsfree when you get a call. I like that functionality of that.

Here comes the iPhone will be able to do that. At the moment the iPhone is going to be a no go for me in Australia. Because apparently last I heard they are only releasing a 2G (Mobile Network Type, Not Memory Space) (I heard this at least 3-4 months ago) network version, not a 3G which I will use it will not be functional for me and the networks that supports 2G over here are heavily overpriced.

As for that Apple dock that Neverko was talking about (forgot what it is called) that has also happened to one of my mates friends only it only smoked up the room, they did not see flames, that put me right off them.

Anyway, thanks for reading and happy Lightwaving.

Lightwolf
06-27-2007, 09:00 AM
Apple, isn't that this ex-computer manufacturer now churning out consumer-ware?

I heard their computers were quite decent ;)

Cheers,
Mike

jeremyhardin
06-27-2007, 09:03 AM
Well depending on who you ask, they have always only made hardware because they were serious about software. And supposedly the computer isn't evolving fast enough for their software desires, so they're branching out into post-pc devices in their quest for software innovation.

(man, i've watched one too many steve jobs keynotes. did any of you guys see the steve jobs / bill gates dual interview a couple weeks ago? )

EDIT: here it is... http://www.tuaw.com/2007/06/04/steve-jobs-bill-gates-d5-interview-available-in-itunes/

Darth Mole
06-27-2007, 09:08 AM
Yeah. Stevie-boy blew him off the stage.

Metaphorically... not... y'know... ugh.

eblu
06-27-2007, 09:15 AM
I'd like to address the idea that : specs define the value of a computer.
um. no.

specs are a little short list of the high points of a machine, and they were never, EVER intended to be the last word in a personal computer's value.
I will now examplify you:
a co-worker could not understand why his core duo at 3 Ghz was being out preformed by his core duo at 2 Ghz. it was confusing, why ever would an intel processor of lower Giga hertz out perform one of higher Giga hertz? I mean the specs say that the 3 GHZ is faster right? yeah, except that the 2 ghz was a newer generation, and had feature sthat he wasn't paying any attention to. It was in short, significantly more efficient per cycle, than the 3 ghz. The specs mislead him to think the 3 was better than the 2.

now, having said that much... I will tread lightly with an opinion: a PC user who assembles his/her own machines out of cheap parts is basing his value of brand names on specs alone, and thinks that he/she can match the design acumen of a multiBillion dollar juggernaut. He/she cannot possibly get the volume prices the juggernaut can get, nor can he/she pick and choose from the entire array of available components, or write his/her own OS to work flawlessly with those components (in the case of apple).

I applaud the ingenuity of any individual who can and does build his/her own Pc. now here comes the opinion: Anyone who does build their own PC is missing the point entirely, will never get it, and should be completely normalized out of this thread. no offense, but you are trying to compare a pile of components to the whole widget, and ALL manufacturers of PCs (dell, apple, gateway, whomever) build a "whole widget", and you just don't appreciate that.

Castius
06-27-2007, 09:21 AM
Thanks guys this thread has been a blast to read. :boogiedow

Lightwolf
06-27-2007, 09:24 AM
Anyone who does build their own PC is missing the point entirely, will never get it, and should be completely normalized out of this thread. no offense, but you are trying to compare a pile of components to the whole widget, and ALL manufacturers of PCs (dell, apple, gateway, whomever) build a "whole widget", and you just don't appreciate that.
You are reffering to the old custom-built vs. ready-made mentality. And that is as far as it gets really. For consumer products, ready-made is fine.
For professional use there a lot of reasons to go the custom route, especially if you know what you're doing and what you need the hardware for.
Especially since if you tend to know better (what you want and need) than some engineer or sales person with PC manufacturers.

Cheers,
Mike

eblu
06-27-2007, 09:42 AM
You are reffering to the old custom-built vs. ready-made mentality. And that is as far as it gets really. For consumer products, ready-made is fine.
For professional use there a lot of reasons to go the custom route, especially if you know what you're doing and what you need the hardware for.
Especially since if you tend to know better (what you want and need) than some engineer or sales person with PC manufacturers.

Cheers,
Mike

for the most part, I agree. but just try to build an iphone out of components you buy yourself ;) (look its only 3 feet thick!)
as for you knowing what you need better than a faceless engineer? its possible, but these days prices are so close to the nub, that its very difficult to find something that won't meet your absolute requirements at a reasonable price. And the next guy after that faceless engineer is a faceless QA guy, and HE knows exactly what you need from him.

You might pay more for the whole widget, but you also get more.

Lightwolf
06-27-2007, 09:45 AM
for the most part, I agree. but just try to build an iphone out of components you buy yourself ;)
That's precisely what I mean though, especially since it is a consumer device. If I'd buy it for business, I'd probably get a Nokia, a Treo or a Blackberry (or a secretary if I ever make it that far up the ladder :D ). That is why options are good though.

Cheers,
mike

Sande
06-27-2007, 11:02 AM
iPhone seems like a nice toy, but I hope that if and when it ships in europe, it has real 3G-capabilities and not that current 2.5G-implementation like it has in the US.

BigHache
06-27-2007, 04:20 PM
The iphone looks like a great, fun gadget, but I'm not interested in the price nor really in having gadgets. If I had a higher profile job where I met with clients to impress, I would absolutely get one.

My overall experience with Apple products has been favorable, but I have seen lemons, which fortunately has not been common in my experience at least. I have read enough complaints/articles and what not about some first gen. products that Apple has released, that had to get a 2nd gen. release to quell the hardware faults.

sean hargreaves
06-27-2007, 07:07 PM
Guys relax, no-one will care in a few years. :D

Stooch
06-27-2007, 08:03 PM
Wow, it looks like someone needs a nap. Seriously, your experience isn't typical for the product line. As a counterpoint to your generic attack on Apple, I've been using Apple products since 1994 and never experienced any of what you are complaining about. No offense, I just get tired of reading or hearing people complaning about this or that without backing up their statements with fact. Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but you should state it is such. And by the way, what do you consider "Quality" product in computers? Just curious.


blah blah blah blah. who cares? i hate apple too. for many reasons. he has a right to his opinion and so do i. i could sit here and try to convince you otherwise, but i will give you the courtesy of keeping my opinions to myself. maybe you should do the same?

no one has to prove to you anything or explain themselves. whats with you mac people? relax... no need to defend your purchase.

Stooch
06-27-2007, 08:13 PM
Just because you say it's mediocre doesn't make it so! Besides, I choose Apple products because I'm not a sheep - how's that Windows OS working out for ya? Baaa.

you tell yourself that.

the fact that it takes one little comment about apple products and you guys descent on the unfortunate soul like a pack of... sheep.

so predictable and so insecure. yes. sheep is the perfect term. why not just relax about it? Why not listen to poeple who dont like apple or their products and nod your head and then carry on the rest of the day like nothing happened? because you know, nothing did happen. its like an organized religion to you guys or something.

Stooch
06-27-2007, 08:25 PM
while im on the topic. id like to make an analogy. Dont you hate it when certain religious representatives knock on your door and then ask you if you discovered god yet? and when you say no, they insist that you do. sometimes even get personally upset. they wont stop or give up and even after you told one of them off, there is always someone else that comes around and tries to blow their dogma up your ***.

thats exactly how mac lovers come off to me.

i have NEVER EVER tried to convince anyone about the glory of windows or pcs. Quite frankly i dont care what they use and what they think of the products i use.... why would i? why would any reasonable, intelligent human being take it personally - what gadgets or brand of computers someone chooses? sorry this is a bit of a tangent but this stuff is just getting old. it never fails. perhaps thats why its so much fun to prod people like that and watch their all too predictable reactions and regurgitated arguments.

for all the mac users who are itching to argue, consider the term "tom foolery"

tom foolery is when people are making fun of you without you realizing it. I do it all the time by pretending to argue with mac users and watching them get all upset, they usually have no idea that they are being toyed with and usually end up grasping at straws by spouting technical speak they obviously dont understand themselves.

anyway thats my inflammatory 2 cents.

Largemedium
06-27-2007, 08:36 PM
apple - high prices for mediocre products.

i would never buy any apple product.

oh..and plz... focus on more important things..

lw on iphone??...yeh right..


mlon

Okay, we get that you hate Apple products - so why are you here? It would take at least two specific clicks to get to this topic within the Mac area, so I'm wondering why you even bothered. Was it so you could troll? Why else would you be negatively posting in a Mac specific area if you don't like Apple products? Hmmmm...

Largemedium
06-27-2007, 08:48 PM
blah blah blah blah. who cares? i hate apple too. for many reasons. he has a right to his opinion and so do i. i could sit here and try to convince you otherwise, but i will give you the courtesy of keeping my opinions to myself. maybe you should do the same?

no one has to prove to you anything or explain themselves. whats with you mac people? relax... no need to defend your purchase.

Well, the counter point to that is I don't go to Windows specific forums and bash Windows users. So, why are you here if you don't like Apple products? A bit smug on your part eh? Everything you said about Mac users can also be said about Windows users. You are a good example of that.

FWIW, I really don't care one way or the other. I use both platforms. However, I just hate when people (Mac or Windows) people start posting their diatribe in pretense of defending their positions in areas they don't belong. Now if this were a Windows thread, then I'd have kept my opinions to myself.

Someone should close this thread.

Stooch
06-27-2007, 08:56 PM
hahaha. how predictable. whats with this xenophobic attitude? "this is our sandbox and you stay out you bully! whaaaaaaah".

anyway the reason why I wouldnt buy an Iphone is because its camera seems like it will suck. I am waiting for the day when an enlightened phone manufacturer makes one with a descent camera. right now im making do with the sony ericcson K something. its alright, 2mp, but id love a more dedicated camera with a better lens.

mlinde
06-27-2007, 10:15 PM
So, Back On Topic, eh?

Let's try this. I'm not getting an iPhone. Why?

Well, for starters I already have an iPod with video capabilities, and I don't use it for that. I use my iPod as a 30GB portable HD for storing photos when I'm travelling. TCO for 30GB of storage was less than 30GB of memory cards, and it's harder to lose one iPod than 30 flash cards.

Second, I'm not impressed with the price point. Sure a 4GB iPod is $199. Add a cellphone and that might run me another $100. Add the various features of the iPhone, and it's comparable to those PDA/Cell devices (Blackberry/Treo/etc), and it's comparable in price $499. It's still $499.

However, I think the iPhone has a chance at being a great product. I'm not a phone person, but the multi-touch interface is cool. Whether you like Apple products or not - you can't deny the interface is cool. Even if you are a Microsoft fan, they have a multitouch product (in that crazy table) - it's just cool. The "real" www on a phone? Again, I'm not a phone guy, but it can be cool - certainly more portable than any laptop (and yes, I've seen the uber-portables), and most people just use laptops for email and www anyway.

I guess if you hate Apple, this is a thread for you to bash the company, or extoll the horrors of your personal Apple experience. Whatever. I'm not going to join in that love/hate fest - and I'm not getting an iPhone (but it could be cool) - I just don't have the need/desire for one.

brunopeixoto
06-27-2007, 10:46 PM
I've been using computers since 1984. My start was a Sinclair (in Brazil it was named TK82c). 2 KB of RAM and software was storaged in audio cassets. No OS, just a basic compiler/language built in. My first Mac was a Mac II Ci, the first with onboard video card with Mac OS 6.5.1 with multfinder (you could run more than one program at time) with 8 MB of RAM and 40 MB for the hard drive. I was doing DTP - Illustrator, PageMaker and Photoshop - the year was 1989. I change to a PowerMac in 1996. The Mac II Ci run fine, with no crashes of any kind until Mac OS 7 come, i think this happened in 1991. I think it is working until today (It was a gift to my girlfriend and we are not together anymore). All the time with me, and I just change the harddrive. I live in Rio de Janeiro - Brazil, so near of atlantic ocean, and no signal of corrosion!!!!
After Steve Jobs was kicked off Apple (by John Scully, that stoped Apple war with Microsoft about the GUI), Apple products rise in quality for hardware and software. With Gil Amelio was a nightmare. Since Jobs return... I had a G3 blue and white, a G4 and now a G5. All computers are working fine. Just the G3 still running Mac OS 10.3.9. There are some crashes, but they are very stable. I also work with mac support and maintenance, and despite the intel machines, with the same OS installed on a external harddrive I can boot and diagnosis any machine from G3 to G5.
Recently I've read that Windows, Vista included, have serious problems with multiple processors. There are zillions of hardware manufacturers for motherboards, video boards, and so on. Ok, it's good, but you can find all kinds of quality for these, and prices too. 200.000 virus and going up! And now with vista and a powerful video boards you can have a "near" Mac OS X experience. The problem is not Windows, the problem is that it's "just" windows. That was already said, but if we have just one brand of car with all the problems we see on windows... Amiga was killed too, was a GREAT computer, afordable price, but this you all know...

sean hargreaves
06-27-2007, 10:48 PM
Guys relax....especially the guy with his head in his hands, a cat, no hair, who does'nt want an I-Phone because it does'nt have the right camera??!!
Anyway, I won't get an I-phone because I don't like touch screens, they remind me of the 70's.
Plus I'm bald so what do I know :D

gatz
06-28-2007, 12:24 AM
No iPhone for me. No Apple TV for that matter. Maybe the next gen.

We are entering an area were the devices are compromised by legal, rather than engineering issues. Say what you want about Jobs, but he's the only person that has been able to nudge the content providers in the right the direction.

rg

Lightwolf
06-28-2007, 02:02 AM
Did you read that on a Mac forum? Because it's definitely not the case and has never been the case.
Now wait.... I was going to jump on that ;)

Actually, there was a remark by a MS person a few months ago, but if you read it properly all it says is that any desktop OS (which includes most Unixes as well - unless they have been designed for massive multi-processing) don't scale too well beyond a certain number of cores, because their task schedulers aren't designed for the job - and this includes OSX as well.
No serious problems though. It works, just not as efficiently as it could (and it doesn't only plague Windows either).

Cheers,
Mike

dsol
06-28-2007, 12:31 PM
I'll get an iPhone. At some point, when it's finally released in the UK. So not too soon by the sound of things.

I want it because, well - the tv ads sold me. The interface is simply a thing of beauty and it makes EVERY other phone interface I've seen look like it was designed by timmy the retard boy. I hate my current phone for precisely that reason.

Most of the current criticisms of it are likely to be answered shortly by software updates, so that by the time I imagine I manage to get my grubby mitts on one hopefully it'll support Flash and native apps (though that's not a deal breaker for me). My only significant concern was the touchscreen-based keyboard, but after seeing some reviews and video of how it works it sounds like it might be not too shabby at all.

Apple's quality control is pretty good too from my experience, and I've bought a lot of their gear over the years. The only device I had a problem with was a 2nd gen iPod Mini, though as the iPhone is completely solid state (like my luvverly iPod nano) I think failure rates should be fairly low.

OneShot
06-28-2007, 01:35 PM
:ohmy: Oh you have to be kidding! I came to this forum to get away from all the hipe talk. Remember is the Macintosh....HELLO... anyone listening. Crap I left S. F. MacWorld because all they were talking about was that stupid $599 plus phone and iPod's. HELLO... it's suppose to be Mac WorldAh nobody is listening. :cursin::argue::foreheads

Chilton
06-28-2007, 02:03 PM
OneShot,

I know how you feel. I wanted a Tablet Mac for Christmas several years ago. What did they give me? iPod. MacWorld this year: iPhone.

And this year, they held WWDC *on my birthday*. You'd think I'd get my Tablet Mac then.

Nope, iPhone. It's like Steve Jobs isn't reading any of my emails!!!

-Chilton

manproof
06-28-2007, 02:37 PM
The price seems reasonable to me. If I needed an iPod and a phone right now, I would drop the money.

As it turns out I already have a phone, and my PSP has served as a great MP3 player (as well as portable data storage, digital portfolio, poopy web browser, and gaming platform) for a while now.

One of the most attractive features of the iPhone for me is the web access. However, reports have been coming in suggesting that AT&T’s network isn’t up to snuff in some spots. Hopefully this will be repaired either by AT&T spending some of that sweet iPhone money, or by iPhone migrating to other providers with better networks. The latter won’t happen for at least two years, if ever.

The dynamic interface certainly seems impressive, but in removing physical buttons they also hinder the ability to dial numbers without looking at the device. It’s a fair trade for me, but may be an annoyance to others. And at the risk of stating the obvious, this may be the first cellular phone to be effectively useless for the blind. Unfortunate, given that blind folks listen to music, make phone calls, and browse the internet.

RonGC
06-28-2007, 02:45 PM
Still waiting on Apple to get printers in Canada so we can order printed iphoto books without getting hit with a 40% tariff at the border. So i imagine that the iPhone should show up here in about 5 years LOL

As for all the hype , what is amazing to me is that its not Apple doing it, its everyone else. Even the Mac bashers are contributing to the hype and probably will contribute to more sales for Apple, just so people can prove them wrong. Any Ad agency has fantasy dreams of achieving this level of buzz being generated by anyone of their Ads.

Chilton, I too would love to get a Mac tablet, hopefully soon.

Ron

sean hargreaves
06-28-2007, 08:56 PM
Its the Paris Hilton Syndrome..........talk about her and she gets wealthier....!

redlum
06-28-2007, 09:12 PM
No, I bought a 2nd generation iPod and I'm not touching another trashy Apple product ever again. The battery life of that 20Gb thing is ridiculously short.

The only Apple product in my home is an AirPort for wireless access and streaming music to the living room stereo.

I'm just glad that particular gadget is still alive. A friend of mine had AirPort that fried, flames and all!

Apple make the lowest quality products imaginable and wrap them in popular design. Clever, clever.


Flame alert, flame alert.

redlum
06-29-2007, 06:39 AM
No you vacuous moron. It's called consumer experience and explaining why I'm not interested in the stupid iPh0ne, as has already been explained.

Your post is totally unnecessary and only makes you look like the sheep you are.

So there, by making your stupid remark, you stir up more trouble. If you can't take other people's experiences and comments, don't read forums, particularly if you can't counter argument in any reasonable way and only spew out dumb remarks.

Have a :chicken:

Smug alert, smug alert!

Chilton
06-29-2007, 07:41 AM
I can mow my own yard. Sometimes I do. I don't do a spectacular job of it, but it's certainly cheaper than hiring someone else. Of course, if I were to look at it in terms of how much I could charge for my services elsewhere, I'm pretty sure I'm losing money every time I mow the lawn.

That assumes I am willing to work on something else early on Saturday mornings.

Last summer, I hired the kid down the street to mow the lawn for me. He did a pretty good job, and for only $30. At one point I also paid a professional lawn care service to do it, and they charged me around $100. The yard looked spectacular. However, they broke part of my fence. I asked them about it, and they came back out and repaired the fence.

*That wasn't an analogy, it's just a similar situation*

However, I don't spend much time in my yard. I do spend a lot of time on my computer, which probably explains my cave-dweller complexion. I wouldn't trust the kid down the street to build my computer. I briefly worked at a company that made computers, and know enough about it to do a pretty good job myself, but frankly I don't have time for it anymore. And I know the time I do have is worth more than it would cost to just go buy one off the shelf.

But that's just my excuse for not building my own computers anymore. By the same token, I often find myself writing some utility program for myself, rather than use one off the shelf, *even if it's free*. I'm sure there's some deep-rooted psychological reason for it, like trying to feel like I control some small part of at least my universe, etc. So I can totally see why people like building their own systems.

I just don't think it's all about how much it costs.

-Chilton

BazC
06-29-2007, 08:03 AM
Lawns SUCK! I walk on a lawn every day, they're often dirty, frequently damp, they get weeds, need mowing and they're FULL of bugs! Also turf is waaay overpriced, I could grow my own lawn for a fraction of the cost of a lawn made from turf but I NEVER would because grass is overhyped junk!

Get yourself a decent brick paved patio, much better than that OUTDATED sward rubbish! ;)

v1u1ant
06-29-2007, 08:11 AM
the same arguement could be said for teeth. ive always thought that having all my teeth removed a replaced with platinum in the long run would save me plenty. Either that or i just stop eating/biting people.

RonGC
06-29-2007, 10:58 AM
Lawns SUCK! I walk on a lawn every day, they're often dirty, frequently damp, they get weeds, need mowing and they're FULL of bugs! Also turf is waaay overpriced, I could grow my own lawn for a fraction of the cost of a lawn made from turf but I NEVER would because grass is overhyped junk!

Get yourself a decent brick paved patio, much better than that OUTDATED sward rubbish! ;)

Sounds like someone had a bad lawn experience LOL

I have a huge double lot, in Manhattan it would probably be worth $10 million.
Lots of grass, hedges and trees, Lilac brushes and Dogwoods - natures perfumes. Tons of Finches and Robbins visit daily.
I love being surrounded by nature, would be a lovely spot to use a new iPhone if such were available in Canada, ( have to kinda keep on topic ).

Cement and pavement, way over rated.

Ron

brunopeixoto
06-29-2007, 12:44 PM
Did you read that on a Mac forum? Because it's definitely not the case and has never been the case. I've had three dual processor PCs and now a dual core processor. Running windows on them since NT 3.xx and never was there a problem with multi threading.

http://tecnologia.terra.com.br/interna/0,,OI1662914-EI4801,00.html

It's on portuguese.

And on Mac side...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/technology/multicore.html

Lightwolf
06-29-2007, 02:04 PM
[url]http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/technology/multicore.html
The portugese I can't read (well, understand ;) ) - but the Apple website says nothing new... and if you look again nothing substantial either.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
06-29-2007, 02:13 PM
I think he was mainly refering to this:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070529-microsoft-exec-next-version-of-windows-to-be-fundamentally-redesigned.html
Which in turn points at Windows not handling multiple cores as efficient as it could - but that is true for any mainstream OS (sorry to repeat myself here). Linux for example just got an update for the scheduling code (which handles distributing of the threads across the cores) - and there are OSes out there designed for a much higher number of cores.
Also, this seems to be more geared at the OS itself, and less at the application level (i.e. a OS running a high load of multiple tasks vs. running one highly multi-threaded app).

Cheers,
Mike

brunopeixoto
06-29-2007, 02:39 PM
Multiple cores, multiple efficiencies.
The new Leopard scheduler is very efficient at allocating tasks across multiple cores and processors. So Leopard spends less time managing tasks and more time performing computations. A new multithreaded network stack speeds up networking by handling network inputs and outputs in parallel.

Multicore apps in Leopard.
Apple engineers have updated several applications in Leopard — including Mail, Address Book, and Font Utility — to be fully multicore ready. Each of these apps breaks up processor-intensive actions into a series of more manageable steps that execute one by one on single-CPU computers and in parallel on newer, multicore systems. Cocoa uses that same technology to speed up Spotlight searches and Dictionary lookups.

Smooth operator.
How did Apple engineers pull this off? By using NSOperation, a breakthrough new API that optimizes applications for the world of multicore processing. Independent chunks of computation (operations) are added to an NSOperationQueue, which dynamically determines how many operations to run in parallel based on the current architectures. So there’s no need to hand-code the complexities of threading and locking. You simply describe the operations in a program along with their dependencies. Cocoa takes care of the rest.

On Windows:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070529-microsoft-exec-next-version-of-windows-to-be-fundamentally-redesigned.html

Specifically:
Currently, Windows already spawns many different processes and threads as it goes about its business, but there are still areas where it could be improved. Back in 1991 when ex-Apple executive Jean-Louis Gassée was starting development of a new operating system called BeOS, its designers tried to make the entire operating system "pervasively multithreaded" in anticipation that multiple CPUs would be much more common in the future. This ensured that any one window that became unresponsive would not interfere with any other windows, although the forced multithreaded programming model increased the risk of programming errors such as race conditions and deadlocks. It does seem highly unlikely, however, that Microsoft would make major changes to the GUI model, given that they just rewrote the 20 year-old GDI/GDI+ model for Windows Vista.

It will still take some time before many applications take full advantage of multithreading and thus full advantage of multiple CPU cores. Even game developers, who by necessity need to stay on the cutting edge of performance, have only recently started taking advantage of multiple threads.

Exactly how Windows in particular will adapt to the reality of dozens of cores on a single chip is still not yet known, although I bet that Ars readers can come up with all sorts of interesting and unusual ideas. When contacted for clarification of Carlson's statements, a Microsoft spokesperson would only say "We are not giving official guidance to the public yet about the next version of Windows, other than that we're working on it. When we are ready, we will provide updates."

Lightwolf
06-29-2007, 02:48 PM
By using NSOperation, a breakthrough new API that optimizes applications for the world of multicore processing. Independent chunks of computation (operations) are added to an NSOperationQueue, which dynamically determines how many operations to run in parallel based on the current architectures.
Sounds like a threadpool to me, maybe a fancy one, but nothing that fancy. Nice to have on an OS level... but nothing new really (I've been using threadpools on some of my new code for certain operations).

As neverko said, where is the news?

And, what about multi-threading on an iPhone? (as an attempt to get back on topic...)

Cheers,
Mike

brunopeixoto
06-29-2007, 02:56 PM
Back to topic - iPhone will run Mac OS X,

and regarding about all i said it's to calrify about Apple quality, modern but simpler techs and how micro$oft do things...

Long life to 200.000 virus

7 kinds of OS to choose

And so on

And if the iPhone it's no good why there are just so clones of then?

And to people that dislike multtouch: www.microsoft.com/surface

sean hargreaves
06-29-2007, 03:44 PM
Calm Down, all of you.......we're trying to work...

avkills
06-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Some may hate Apple, but I've had nothing but good experiences with their equipment; Personnel at Apple Stores ... now that is another story.

My current Sony Ericsson phone completely sucks total complete *** as a phone, so I am very tempted by the iPhone, especially since I already have a at&t voice plan that works for me, all I would need to add is the data plan, which at the cheapest is an extra $20 a month for unlimited data.

Also, it is cool that this phone also connects to WiFi access points, and gives you full web browsing, not some watered down POS browser.

The price is pretty steep, but coupled with the need for a new phone, and the fact that I am still using my 1G iPod (which actually still holds a decent battery charge), I'm very very tempted.

And just for the record, if you hate Apple hardware now, then you will be getting the same damn thing when you buy a PC, it is all the same now; all you really get with Apple is a better, more secure OS. (I might add that Apple Intel hardware does weird funky things that PowerPC hardware never did, oh well, at least we have real mobile chips in Macs now.)

-mark

campbellpro
06-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Wow all this over a phone! Sorry about your 2 generation ipod problem but you did post your comment on the mac forum. So, sorry if you ruffled a few feathers. Most mac users are loyal for a reason and if I judged the rest of the PC world on a few problems I wouldn't get 300 miles from a Windows machine.

Lightwolf
06-29-2007, 04:52 PM
Wow all this over a phone!
Hehe, how true. I still use my 4 year old cell phone (which does well what a phone should do). And I'm keep looking for a replacement almost on a weekly basis ... nothing yet that makes me want to shell out :(

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
06-29-2007, 04:53 PM
And just for the record, if you hate Apple hardware now, then you will be getting the same damn thing when you buy a PC, it is all the same now;
Hehe, nice one. Still waiting for OSX on an AMD though ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Largemedium
06-29-2007, 11:46 PM
No you vacuous moron. It's called consumer experience and explaining why I'm not interested in the stupid iPh0ne, as has already been explained.

Your post is totally unnecessary and only makes you look like the sheep you are.

So there, by making your stupid remark, you stir up more trouble. If you can't take other people's experiences and comments, don't read forums, particularly if you can't counter argument in any reasonable way and only spew out dumb remarks.

Have a :chicken:

After reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are an *****. I'm pretty new to Lightwave and I certainly hope you aren't representative of the Lightwave community! If so, I'll be wishing I went with CD4 or even that other popular 3d program. Seriously, you have not had one decent thing to say about anything and your attacks on other users of this forum are ugly and mean-spirited at best. I'm having a hard time understanding why you haven't been warned or even banned. Are these forums moderated or not?

campbellpro
06-30-2007, 01:50 AM
OK I've held my tongue long enough. All this talk about apple and crappy products and sheep are you people on crack? Ya Apple has 75% of the Mp3 player market and is consistantly at the top in customer satisfaction because it sells crap. Sure it has a smaller computer market share and windows is everywhere, but 80% of windows sold is to the manufactors through license agreements and most of those go to people buying 500.00 computers at Walmart to get on the internet and look at porn or send pics of their kids to granny. I bought a computer to make money not to break down and crash. Part of my money comes from people and their computing problems and 99% comes from Windows and PC users. So keep buying your PC's and while your at it buy 3 then you will have something for parts. Thank god for Apple or else we would still be using floppy's and serial ports.
Good Day Dudes

sean hargreaves
06-30-2007, 10:16 AM
You say Tomaytoes and I say Tomatoes.......!!!
A talented artist on a P.C. and a talented artist on a Mac using the same sofware and same skill set will produce talented work. Except you'll just look better doing it on a Mac.
Now, enough flapping on this thread!

Kuzey
06-30-2007, 01:54 PM
Soooooooo....Can you run LW on the iPhone :beta:


Kuzey

Stooch
06-30-2007, 02:28 PM
After reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are an *****. I'm pretty new to Lightwave and I certainly hope you aren't representative of the Lightwave community! If so, I'll be wishing I went with CD4 or even that other popular 3d program. Seriously, you have not had one decent thing to say about anything and your attacks on other users of this forum are ugly and mean-spirited at best. I'm having a hard time understanding why you haven't been warned or even banned. Are these forums moderated or not?

hmm 3d software is for smart people, maybe you should move on to something more in your league. like knitting.

as far as personal attacks


I've come to the conclusion that you are an *****.

thats the only personal attack i see.

typical mac user.

Largemedium
06-30-2007, 02:31 PM
If you read closely enough (you can read can't you?) ....

It just never ends with you...

I have a solution, I'm just going to put you on my ignore list. Seriously, I think you should evaluate how you respond to people. You'll do better in life once you realize that you don't always have to be right... especially when you're wrong. Antagonism never perpetuates meaningful conversation.

Whatever... good-luck and goodbye.

toby
06-30-2007, 05:40 PM
Neverko why don't you just add "Apple products are trash" to your signature? It would save you a heck of a lot of typing!
Because then he wouldn't be able stir up s*** in the forums when he wants some drama.

Thanks for f***ing up another thread Neverko. What other forums do you frequent, Chevy.com where you say Ford owners are idiots? Republican.com and talk smack about Democrats? Get a life.


as far as personal attacks

thats the only personal attack i see.

typical mac user.
Neverko insults all mac users on a regular basis. And LargeMedium was responding to Neverko's insult after Redlum posted 'flame alert'. Yes, Neverko did insult someone without being insulted first. Interesting you didn't catch that.

RonGC
06-30-2007, 06:31 PM
If you want a good laugh, just do a search in the forums with "neverko Mac"
every post of his is negative not one positive to be found.

Ron

jat
06-30-2007, 06:37 PM
rofl.............

ShawnStovall
06-30-2007, 06:48 PM
For all of thous who just want peace:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4:thumbsup:

Now on to the topic, the only reason I want one it because I am a curious about all things technology.

Largemedium
06-30-2007, 07:30 PM
...Neverko insults all mac users on a regular basis. And LargeMedium was responding to Neverko's insult after Redlum posted 'flame alert'. Yes, Neverko did insult someone without being insulted first. Interesting you didn't catch that.

Yeah, I didn't start it. I just couldn't sit back and watch as someone comes into a Mac-centric area and starts bashing people because they like Apple products. Or just bashing people in general because they can. Sheesh! In hindsight, if I would have known how negative the banana dude, neverko (and Stooch, whatever..) are, I probably wouldn't have wrote anything because it turned out to be a waste of time. Those guys remind me of two thugs who move into a neighborhood and terrorize people for the fun of it, or maybe as an attempt to off-set their own inferority complexes. Some people do that (bring others down) as a way to make themselves feel superiour.

As for me, I think the best way to learn is to hang out in a positive, fun, and creative environment while sharing knowledge with like-minded individuals. I'm beginning to think I won't find that here - or at least in this particular thread without having to sort through the garbage insults.

My apologies to those of you who came here to discuss Lightwave and iPhone and found this argument instead. I'll do my part to keep quiet unless I have something productive to say that is on topic. I challenge others (you know who you are) to do the same.

Peace

Castius
06-30-2007, 08:33 PM
OffTopic:
Welcome to internet chat. Where the only thing we have is our opnions and a keyboard. I'm sure we will see college classes dealing with it in the future. "internet typeing 101" Where you learn how to read and write in forums and not get mad. It's not always easy. Take a deep breath or have a drink. :beerchug:

On Topic
I for one Love all that has happened to LW in the last year or two. Who would have though we would even be talking about running LW on a phone. "Can i put you on hold my render is almost done, Ok what were you saying"

Mr Maze
06-30-2007, 10:41 PM
ShawnStovall:

Thanks for the youtube link.

Stooch
07-01-2007, 12:50 AM
Yeah, I didn't start it. I just couldn't sit back and watch as someone comes into a Mac-centric area and starts bashing people because they like Apple products. Or just bashing people in general because they can. Sheesh! In hindsight, if I would have known how negative the banana dude, neverko (and Stooch, whatever..) are, I probably wouldn't have wrote anything because it turned out to be a waste of time. Those guys remind me of two thugs who move into a neighborhood and terrorize people for the fun of it, or maybe as an attempt to off-set their own inferority complexes. Some people do that (bring others down) as a way to make themselves feel superiour.

As for me, I think the best way to learn is to hang out in a positive, fun, and creative environment while sharing knowledge with like-minded individuals. I'm beginning to think I won't find that here - or at least in this particular thread without having to sort through the garbage insults.

My apologies to those of you who came here to discuss Lightwave and iPhone and found this argument instead. I'll do my part to keep quiet unless I have something productive to say that is on topic. I challenge others (you know who you are) to do the same.

Peace

hmm. you should have just stayed quiet.

and also you should learn how to read because the only people I bashed are the ones that always want to turn any negative comments about apple products into a pissing contest and feel the need to defend themselves and everyone who uses a mac. They immediately feel that if you "insult" a mac, you are insulting them personally. I also resent this notion that people have no right to dislike mac products and must prove to everyone why they have an opinion about your beloved macs. in YOUR PERSONAL AREA that you alone are entitled to visit because you like macs. the fact is that you are getting all upset over nothing.

inferiority complex? not likely. I consider myself superior to anyone who is married to his computer/peripheral to that level of patheticness.. My intellectual freedom from such stupid emotional responses is something to be learned from. And i will continue to exercise my right to share my pov about your hardware whether you like it or not. if you still insist on taking these opinions personally then you are indeed as much of a tool as you appear.

again. this thread clearly went to **** when people came in here with negative opinions of apple products. NOT when people started to get insulted. this is a problem in my eyes that shall not escape ridicule from me until mac users can have a civil conversation about a product and accept that not everyone here loves apple products and that everyone here has an equal right to post their thoughts in any section they desire. if you want to talk about macs, go to apple forums. if you cannot handle people who criticize macs, stay off the internet. you cannot change the world, you can only change yourself.

parm
07-01-2007, 02:12 AM
When the iPhone becomes available on the network I use. I probably will buy one. The inclusion of a real web browser, is a big plus. And seems to me, a genuinely useful additional feature.

Personally. I would have preferred Leopard now, and the iPhone in October.

Aside: As for the overall quality and reliability of Apple products. You'd be hard pressed to find another large scale manufacturer of electronics. That can currently match Apple at any level on that.

Of course, it's always a pain if you get a 'Lemon'. (Fortunately it's never happened to me with an Apple product). But, it is unrealistic to expect any manufacturing process to be perfect. You just take the product back and it's replaced. These things happen.

To go on, and gratuitously lambaste, the entire company, all it's products. As well as it's users. Is, if I may say so, extremely immature behaviour. It's definitely not a credible basis on which to form an opinion.

Castius
07-01-2007, 03:06 AM
Off Topic:
An opinion of someones behavior is just as acceptable as there opinion on some hardware. Simply treat other peoples opinion with respect, report them or ignore them. It's as easy as that.

On Topic:
Anyone own an iPnone here yet?

toby
07-01-2007, 04:02 AM
hmm. you should have just stayed quiet.

and also you should learn how to read because the only people I bashed are the ones that always want to turn any negative comments about apple products into a pissing contest and feel the need to defend themselves and everyone who uses a mac. They immediately feel that if you "insult" a mac, you are insulting them personally.
If this was the first time I corrected you on this, I'd say it's incorrect and tell you why. Since I've already explained it to you, and you obviously ignored it, it's clear that you just prefer to believe your fabricated bulls***. Neverko insults mac users on a regular basis like I've already said, and comes here for no other reason. He's expressed the same exaggerated, biased opinion, off topic, over and over and over again. His 'right to express his opinion' extends to us too, so don't be surprised if we express how sick of his s*** we are. This whole concept of this being a 'Mac appreciation thread' is a bunch of crap too - has anyone ever discussed new hardware or software on the PC forum? Go and call them religious fanatics.


this is a problem in my eyes that shall not escape ridicule from me until mac users can have a civil conversation
Oh yea, right, like:
"I'm not touching another trashy Apple product ever again"
"Apple make the lowest quality products imaginable and wrap them in popular design. Clever, clever."
"Last time I looked, this wasn't the Apple Appreciation Forum."
"I simply state my experiences as a consumer who's tired of Apple's crappy, cheaply manufactured products."
"People who believe they buy quality when they buy Apple, are thoroughly deceived."

You call that 'civil conversation'? It's clearly biased. And it was all before anyone confronted him. And you've ignored everything I said, and ignored Neverko's BS in order to support your beloved theory that anyone who uses a mac is religiously fanatic about it, you haven't presented any civil conversation either.

This is civil conversation:

"Seriously, your experience isn't typical for the product line."
"Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but you should state it is such. And by the way, what do you consider "Quality" product in computers? Just curious."
"For professional use there a lot of reasons to go the custom route, especially if you know what you're doing and what you need the hardware for."
"I have seriously looked into buying a Mac, but I could not justify paying nearly double the price for a different operating system and limited upgradibility."

So go ahead, ignore neverko's insults, then call mac users fanatics, because redlum said "flame war".

What both of you are doing here time after time is; come here and talk s***, and if anybody has anything at all to say about it, that gives you an excuse to talk more s***. Insult all Mac users, and if anyone sends back the slightest insult in return, you use that to claim your superiority; "you guys are just fanatics blah-blah-blah". Grow up, do something constructive with your lives.

toby
07-01-2007, 04:14 AM
while im on the topic. id like to make an analogy. Dont you hate it when certain religious representatives knock on your door and then ask you if you discovered god yet? and when you say no, they insist that you do. sometimes even get personally upset. they wont stop or give up and even after you told one of them off, there is always someone else that comes around and tries to blow their dogma up your ***.

thats exactly how mac lovers come off to me.
That would make sense, if the Mac forum came to you. But it's actually the other way around, isn't it? You and Neverko are the piss-ants that won't f*** off. Good analogy.


perhaps thats why its so much fun to prod people like that and watch their all too predictable reactions and regurgitated arguments.

for all the mac users who are itching to argue, consider the term "tom foolery"

tom foolery is when people are making fun of you without you realizing it. I do it all the time by pretending to argue with mac users and watching them get all upset, they usually have no idea that they are being toyed with and usually end up grasping at straws by spouting technical speak they obviously dont understand themselves.
Good to see you admit that you're intentionally f***ing with people here on the forum. That's exactly what qualifies you as a 'Troll' by the way. Now tell me, why do you think that if someone knew they were being "toyed with" by your superior intellect, that they would be any less pissed off at your derogatory comments? And how do we know this is not just an excuse to say whatever insults and other crap that you want? I have no doubt that you just come here for 'fun', at other peoples' expense, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to respond. I have 'fun' bashing people who do nothing but bash people for no reason.

BazC
07-01-2007, 05:03 AM
I'm really not voicing my oppinion to piss people off, that would be too easy. But I feel the other side of the story is needed, whenever people go all gooey over some products I find inferior. It's simply a counter response to stuff I don't agree with.

I have the greatest respect for you on the subject of 3d Neverko, you've done some stellar work on the LWbeta but I do find it hard to believe you're not being deliberately provocative.

Let me try and express what I think is your opinion is for illustrative purposes.

"I work with Macs out of necessity, I've never found the Mac OS a pleasant environment to work in and all of the Mac computers I have used have been, without exception, slow and unreliable. I also believe them to be overpriced. What's more I feel more in control in a Windows environment and have the ability to replace any piece of hardware, including the motherboard if I wish or even build the entire machine myself to perfectly meet my requirements.

For those reasons you will never find me using a Macintosh computer out of choice!"

or

"Macs are cheap rubbish covered in flashy cases and clever marketing. Anyone who uses one is a deluded fool!"

Which of those opinions is a reasonably expressed opinion which is likely to be responded to in a friendly and helpful manner and which is antagonistic and insulting? Now which more closely matches your typical input in Mac discussions?

Kuzey
07-01-2007, 06:24 AM
Maybe Newtek should just ditch the PC forum since everyone seems to like coming here :D

I'm waiting to see how ZunePhone turns out....maybe we'll see it in the next 15 years or so :D

Kuzey

Chilton
07-01-2007, 07:32 AM
I'd ask if we could all just get along, but I realize that would be pointless.

So instead, I'll give you this video...

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail%3bjsessionid=66434CA6FE6500D6A04B9F946D7791 45?contentId=3641729&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

-Chilton

Lightwolf
07-01-2007, 07:41 AM
I'm waiting to see how ZunePhone turns out....
Hm, if you're reffering to phones with an MS OS ... maybe you missed it, but the majority of smart phones run Windows Mobile already... (not that I think it's a good choice, I'm a PalmOS person myself for mobile devices...).

Cheers,
Mike

BazC
07-01-2007, 07:51 AM
I'd ask if we could all just get along, but I realize that would be pointless.

So instead, I'll give you this video...

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail%3bjsessionid=66434CA6FE6500D6A04B9F946D7791 45?contentId=3641729&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

-Chilton

LOL! I love it, serves the greedy cow right!

Kuzey
07-01-2007, 07:56 AM
Good info as always Mike :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I was thinking on the surface, product v product kinda thing...something that MS could say or try to say, hey our phone is way better than that silly iphone :hey: Also, they'll have to make something soon or their own music store venture will suffer as well....is that still in beta or has it gone live :)

:)

Kuzey

campbellpro
07-01-2007, 10:48 AM
Well I came to this forum to gain some insight about lightwave for mac but instead my IQ level has dropped. This is the mac forum isn't it not the I hate mac forum?

Lightwolf
07-01-2007, 10:59 AM
I was thinking on the surface, product v product kinda thing...
Well, in that case they both have something going for them if you compare them 1:1 - the MS product being more on the business side of things as well as more adapted to the global markets. (the iPhone concept just screams American market and would need a few changes to be competitive over here, 3G being one of the missing features - we don't have as many Hotspots as you seem to do in SF ;) ).


something that MS could say or try to say, hey our phone is way better than that silly iphone :hey:
Well, the fact that they don't should tell you how threatened they feel at the moment.


Also, they'll have to make something soon or their own music store venture will suffer as well....is that still in beta or has it gone live :)
I have no idea. I do hope it is less of a pain to use than the iTunes store (I actually bought something after EMI dropped the DRM, since I got a voucher for free).
But apparently you can't d/l to the iPhone from iTunes either, right?
Then again, I actually like to go out to buy music, so I'm I'm not really bothered... *shrugs*

Cheers,
Mike

toby
07-01-2007, 12:17 PM
Thank you for arguing reasonably BazC, instead of jumping on my back :)
I've written dozens reasonable arguments, I took the time to clearly state how and why our opinions differ and why it's pointless for you to come here and complain about a company you personally don't like. You ignored all of it, and still come here to start flame wars. You ignore everything that might calm things down here. So I'm trying a different approach to stop your BS.

I guess I have to work a little on my wording in the future, but I am really p'd off at Apple for many reasons.
Why do you think we give a damn about your personal pet peaves? This is not the place for you to vent your hatred of the world. We're sick of your repetitive off-topic insulting rants. f*** off.


People just need to lay off jumping on me with personal insults and flame bait, when I say something they don't like to hear. I don't think I adressed anyone on this board in my initial message and even then people jumped on me personally.
As pointed out before, you started the insults first. You also insult every mac user whether they even post or respond to you or not.

You come here and complain that we say we like Apple products, so you're the one who needs to "lay off" with the personal insults and flame bait, when WE say something YOU don't like to hear.


All in all, a reasonble post if you ask me, explaining why I don't like Apple gadgets and why I'm not interested in the iPhone.
Reasonable post? Your 'reason' was nothing specific, just "It's all garbage". You have no idea what a reasonable post is.


See the post directly before mine! Noone took notice of that one, and it's directly bashing without explanation or reasoning.
That's because it was only one post, one comment, and get this: he didn't insult anyone here. GET IT YET??? Or are you too stupid?



People need to respect oppinions, even if they don't agree with them.
Like the way you respect our opinion of Macs?? You are so full of crap it's unbelievable.

Castius
07-01-2007, 01:10 PM
Here is my opinion, All of you need go somewhere else. Seriously go take a break, get a grip, join a gym. What ever you have to do but do it somewhere else. If i was a moderator i would have asked you ALL to stop posting 6 pages ago. I've tried my best help keep this thread on topic since the first odd post. But that appears to be futile since you clearly don't have any interest in anything but fighting.

Chilton I apologize for the people on this thread that are incapable of participating in a discussion. Neverko that includes you. I'm not saying you started this but you did turn a small joke into this mess. Even if that joke might have been meant to bait you, you took it. And everyone else that has been fighting with neverko. Guess what You created him! I took your advice i went and read all the threads that involved neverko opinion on the mac. Guess what you all attacked him for his opinion from the very start. And you did it until all that he has left is to defend himself. You have no one to blame but yourselves for making him into the defensive person you make him out to be. Because you try to discredit his opinion by saying he is in the minority. Or what ever other reasons you can come up with. Put down your torches and pick forks and deal with the fact that someone may not like the same thing as you.


Chilton keep up the great work. I love your attitude and enthusiasm for your work and that you try to bring it to this forum. Keep it up.

RonGC
07-01-2007, 01:33 PM
Well have been reading the RSS feeds on the iPhone the consensus is that it is not perfect but that the the interface is revolutionary. My favorite quote is that this phone is still in its infancy cant wait for what the future will bring.

Yes it is a brand new approach for this type of product and it has its flaws but it has really shown a new direction for interfaces, This will change not just phones but probably computer interfaces for the better,

Thoughts?

Ron

Chilton
07-01-2007, 02:07 PM
"All right stop, collaborate, and listen..." - Vanilla Ice

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this most serious of matters, specifically, does Apple rock or does it suck, and whether Mac users are sheep, or enlightened.

I personally feel that while these things have *never* been discussed before, the experts in this arena have reached a consensus, and that everyone happily agrees. I am further convinced that from this day forward, everyone who needs an answer to this particular set of questions can come to this forum, to this thread, and find the truth.

On that note, I would like to suggest that everything that could be said, has been said, and everything that has not been said, should not be said.

I am now going to draw the proverbial line in the sand, which you might notice I am drawing in a circle. And in the center of that tiny circle you will notice some poo. Do not cross the line unless you want to be the one standing in the poo. As things are now, we are all on the side of the line with 'less poo'. Let's keep it that way.

No parting shots, no further arguments, no flame bait, nada.

Thank you,
-Chilton

Chilton
07-01-2007, 02:17 PM
That said, discussion of my original topic, LightWave and the iPhone, is fine. Frankly, I'm not sure what I expected there, but I don't think it was this.

-Chilton

Lightwolf
07-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Frankly, I'm not sure what I expected there, but I don't think it was this.
Hah, you never expect the Spanish Inquisition! ;)

Cheers,
Mike

toby
07-01-2007, 05:00 PM
Just spoke to my best friend, he just got one. His words were "ridiculously uber-cool". And no, he never owned a mac before. I have no interest in one myself (I still haven't seen one), never been interested in gadgets like pda's, nor mp3 players. All I need is a phone, and my Samsung is just peachy.

campbellpro
07-01-2007, 06:35 PM
I went and played with one and even with flaws it will change the industry as we know it and not a bad first effort at a phone.

Kuzey
07-02-2007, 04:38 AM
the iPhone concept just screams American market and would need a few changes to be competitive over here, 3G being one of the missing features - we don't have as many Hotspots as you seem to do in SF ;) .

Cheers,
Mike

Yes there are things that make you wonder what in the world are they thinking but the good thing is they usually come around. Also, the apple products always get updated so I don't see that as a problem for now.

The things I don't like is the phone contract plan....I like to use pre paid cards, the camera needs to be better and ofcourse you should be able to run LW on it....just to name a few. However it's on my wish list...maybe v2 or v3 depending how quickly it gets updated.

But...yes, the more options the better :thumbsup:

ps. I don't have an ipod so I wouldn't know how good the online purchase is but since the is a interent browser in the iphone I'm sure they update that to so you can directly buy/download to you phone.

Kuzey

Lightwolf
07-02-2007, 05:11 AM
The things I don't like is the phone contract plan....
Especially since in the US, apparently, you get charged for incoming calls as well. How strange is that?

Cheers,
Mike

Kuzey
07-02-2007, 05:18 AM
Especially since in the US, apparently, you get charged for incoming calls as well. How strange is that?

Cheers,
Mike

Very strange indeed :)

They just said on the news they sold half a million iPhones since Friday....this could be really big world wide...if they make those small changes and I'm sure they will.

Kuzey

brian.coates
07-02-2007, 05:38 AM
They just said on the news they sold half a million iPhones since Friday.
Wow.

Either the iPhone is REALLY good (for a first-release), or people REALLY don't like the phones they've got...

Kuzey
07-02-2007, 05:49 AM
It could also be the hype factor playing a small roll :)

I was going to get a sonny ericsson, the one with a 3.2 megapixel camera about 8 months ago but just couldn't do it.....it's a brick and just ugly...something an accountant would design :hey:

So, I'm a cell phone free zone for now :beta:

Apple...make those changes :D

It would be interesting to see what people think of them once they start using it.

Kuzey

jeremyhardin
07-02-2007, 05:54 AM
very interesting indeed. the review that I posted earlier in the thread pretty much sums up my worries.

if I'm listening to music and browsing the web...i have to hit home, navigate to the ipod portion of the phone, and hit next to skip a track...then hit home, navigate to the web portion of the phone, and continue. it's really the summation of my hesitance. I know that 2 or 3 bulky devices in my pocket is bad...but I really don't want to have the extra steps between each task. not really a multi-tasking setup right now, from my understanding, and these problems seem to come with the combining of devices.

Haven1000
07-02-2007, 07:13 AM
if I'm listening to music and browsing the web...i have to hit home, navigate to the ipod portion of the phone, and hit next to skip a track...then hit home, navigate to the web portion of the phone, and continue.

I think apple should have really examined the pattern that universal remote control market for ir electronic components has gone. It may have saved them some flak in the long run.

In a way Apple is treading the same path that Philips/ Sony did in the mid-ninties with UI design and functionality in their universal remote controls. Ultimately what we saw was hand held devices like the 'Philips Pronto' remote control which almost solely required touch screen interaction as there were very few hard-wired button's on the remote. The universal remotes these day have more than adequate numbers of hard buttons, not because the touch screen or UI failed but because they enhance the users efficiency and experience.

I can see Apple adding those couple of extra hard buttons in the next iphone revision.

Kuzey
07-02-2007, 07:26 AM
Mmmmm....I would have thought they had something like the dock or the dvd controller, move your finger and it appears then click on an icon and hold for a contextual menu to do what you want without going back and forth.

That would be interesting to see how that develops.

Kuzey

jeremyhardin
07-02-2007, 07:37 AM
Yeah I like the touch screen and all, but a couple more hardware buttons would be ideal.

Also, here's a comparison chart from that review...

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/PJ-AK476_pjMOSS_20070626175028.gif (http://solution.allthingsd.com/20070626/the-iphone-is-breakthrough-handheld-computer/)

Scazzino
07-02-2007, 10:34 AM
While the iPhone is a phone... that's just the trojan horse aspect of it IMHO...

It's really a wi-fi Internet device and a widescreen audio-video entertainment device, which can also replace your cell phone... :D

I can't wait to see what this device does to the technology landscape as it matures into what Apple really has in mind... this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg... ;)

RonGC
07-02-2007, 11:09 AM
While the iPhone is a phone... that's just the trojan horse aspect of it IMHO...

It's really a wi-fi Internet device and a widescreen audio-video entertainment device, which can also replace your cell phone... :D

I can't wait to see what this device does to the technology landscape as it matures into what Apple really has in mind... this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg... ;)

Apple have driven a lot of changes over the years. It is amazing that a company with only 5% computer market share can cause all the others to scramble to keep up.

All the windows domination of the market and its still the small guy calling the tune.

This phone is the one that was promised years ago with the Buck Rogers type serials.

Ron

dsol
07-02-2007, 11:10 AM
Hm, if you're reffering to phones with an MS OS ... maybe you missed it, but the majority of smart phones run Windows Mobile already... (not that I think it's a good choice, I'm a PalmOS person myself for mobile devices...).

Cheers,
Mike

Just spotted this and had to chime in. AFAIK, Symbian remains the dominant OS for Smartphones - with heavy backing by Sony Ericsson and Nokia. Blackberry (still the leader in high end smartphones) runs a custom OS from RIM, though as many like to point out, the smartphone market is pretty tiny compared to the mobile market overall.

Windows Mobile seems to be more popular with the far-east phone developers (samsung, motorola). I don't even have a smart phone - so I'm not being biased :)

dsol
07-02-2007, 11:22 AM
Fascinating - I just did a little fact-hunting. Symbian is indeed the dominant smartphone OS (at around 72% of the market), but surprising (for me) was that Linux has a 16% market share. Windows CE/mobile bubbles in at 5%. RIM-based phones (eg. blackberry) have an even smaller segment.

It'll be interesting to see where OSX fits into this market in a year's time. I'm guessing it'll still be pretty small (given that only one vendor - Apple - is using the OS in their phone products) - but may come close to displacing Windows from third place.

Of course if Apple were to produce a cheaper version of iPhone, then all bets would be off :)

Lightwolf
07-02-2007, 11:38 AM
AFAIK, Symbian remains the dominant OS for Smartphones
Sorry, of course, I completely ignored that.
I guess it's because I see a smart phone more as coming from the organizer side of things and less from a phone.

Cheers,
Mike

Defmetal
07-02-2007, 03:01 PM
I agree with the statements above.
I had an ipod, it got scratched by sitting on a desk, by dust I imagine.

My Zune on the other hand, I dropped that thing (fell out of my car door) on my driveway, screenside-down, and as it slid down my driveway (I ran after it of course) I noticed it had NO DAMAGE on it.

What does that mean? Microsoft may make buggy software but at least their stuff is durable. I'd buy a Vista Phone if it was good enough. Got tired of this "YOU HAVE TO BUY SCREEN PROTECTORS" for Apple stuff, and appreciate the Zunes "If you drop it on the screen, nothing happens".

Chilton
07-02-2007, 03:09 PM
Wow, full circle it is!

*Many* years ago, I was asked to help a friend finish his app he was writing for a phone that ran the SymbianOS. I wasn't much help though, because I couldn't (at that time) wrap my head around the weirdo language the app was written in... Objective-C.

-Chilton

brunopeixoto
07-02-2007, 04:36 PM
Apple have driven a lot of changes over the years. It is amazing that a company with only 5% computer market share can cause all the others to scramble to keep up.

All the windows domination of the market and its still the small guy calling the tune.

This phone is the one that was promised years ago with the Buck Rogers type serials.

Ron

Remeber that HP/Compaq and Dell, each of then, also have around 5% of tha market share. Recently Apple go to 7.3 % of US market share for pc's.

Lightwolf
07-02-2007, 04:55 PM
Remeber that HP/Compaq and Dell, each of then, also have around 5% of tha market share. Recently Apple go to 7.3 % of US market share for pc's.
Erm... Dell and HP have around 50% in the US, worldwide the numbers are a bit different with HP at around 15% at the top or so.
It also seems that Apple has a higher market share in the US than in other countries (not suprising if you look at some of their pricing policies in the past - things have changed, now you only pay a 10% premium, at least here in Germany).

Cheers,
Mike

byte_fx
07-02-2007, 06:12 PM
My take?

An expensive toy that probably won't be used very much - except for maybe a couple of basic featues - after the novelty wears off.

It'll be interesting to see how many of the early buyers renew the annual service contract next year.

And how many toss their iPhone into a drawer after a month or two.

byte_fx

js33
07-02-2007, 09:22 PM
Well yeah it is somewhat of an expensive toy. But how many people that have bought iPods throw them in a drawer after two months? I have one of the first gen 10 gig iPods and I still use it almost everyday. Mainly I use it when I take the dog for a walk but that's almost everyday use for about 5 years now.

Also how many people throw their cell phones in the drawer after a couple months? I mean it is a phone too and a lot of people I know have gotten rid of their land lines and only have cell phones now.

I think the only thing they forgot to add was gaming like the PSP. Or does the iPhone play games too?

Or perhaps the next gen PSP will make phone calls.

byte_fx
07-02-2007, 11:23 PM
well - someone gave me an ipod.

opened the box long enough to look at it - put it back in the box - put the box on a closet shelf.

cell phone - bought one for emergency use.

still have it for that purpose - it's turned off until - and if - I need to make an emergency call.

I just don't like carrying a bunch of junk around.

Had a pager. When it went off on Christmas eve I took to a construction site where concrete was being poured. The foreman tossed in into the slurry and everythime I drive down that lane of the freeway I get to run over it.

But the thing with the iPhone is the ongoing service charges. I think a lot of people will look at that and decide it just isn't worth it.

A buddy of mine bought one but when he checked into the service plans he sold it.

byte_fx

js33
07-03-2007, 12:06 AM
Well most cell phones have ongoing monthly charges unless you get a pay as you go model. I have a Motorola Razr but I am on my brothers Verizon family plan so it only cost them an extra $10 month. They never bother to ask me for it so my cell phone is free.

Seems like your friend would have checked out the service plan before buying an iPhone. It's not like they hide the cost of the plan and you only find out after buying one.

Sure it is expensive and not for everyone.

I would like to get one but will wait. It's hard to compete with the free phone I have now.

toby
07-03-2007, 12:30 AM
Had a pager. When it went off on Christmas eve I took to a construction site where concrete was being poured. The foreman tossed in into the slurry and everythime I drive down that lane of the freeway I get to run over it.
:ohmy:


But the thing with the iPhone is the ongoing service charges. I think a lot of people will look at that and decide it just isn't worth it.
You don't know LA people. We always need something new to throw our money at, this is just the ticket.

Phil
07-03-2007, 12:53 AM
I am now going to draw the proverbial line in the sand, which you might notice I am drawing in a circle. And in the center of that tiny circle you will notice some poo. Do not cross the line unless you want to be the one standing in the poo. As things are now, we are all on the side of the line with 'less poo'. Let's keep it that way.

I'm not going to ask what you were doing with a convenient lump of poo in your pocket. I'll just point out that some of us are standing downwind.

Regarding phones, I'm just happy to have something simple now - text primarily and voicecalls secondary. Having gone through a number of 'smart' phones, they have always let me down - Windows Mobile was so fond of locking up that it couldn't ever be trusted*. Sony handsets were also highly prone to wedging. None of them were reliable, all of them were locked-down so tightly that you *had* to go and find your Palm or laptop to accomplish anything useful, using the phone as a modem. No quick session of SuperTux or Frozen Bubble.

A cheapo Nokia handset serves me very well.

I noticed that there seem to be an awful lot of iPhones for sale on eBay, but the majority are going for very close to the list price from Apple/AT&T.


* My personal favourites for customer friendliness were products from the Windows Mobile SPV range sold by Orange in the UK. I had two separate models over time. To upgrade the system software, you had to back up your data on the phone to your computer. The system update would literally blow every bit of your data away. You then had to restore the data from the computer, although this never worked for me.

byte_fx
07-03-2007, 01:18 AM
:ohmy:

You don't know LA people. We always need something new to throw our money at, this is just the ticket.

So true. Sad - but true. And one of the reasons I did the "Escape From LA" bit sveral years ago.

byte_fx

dsol
07-03-2007, 04:57 AM
What does that mean? Microsoft may make buggy software but at least their stuff is durable.

You've obviously never owned one of their game consoles ;)

jeremyhardin
07-03-2007, 05:03 AM
Red ring of death!

dsol
07-03-2007, 05:18 AM
The original Xbox isn't exactly a paradigm of stability either. I don't think I ever saw a console crash before MS entered the market.

They're damn lucky someone in that organisation had the foresight to acquire Bungie. I bet they just did it to piss off Apple too ( c'mon - bungie was a tiny company with no AAA games before Halo. That's either incredibly shrewd, or very lucky!)

mlinde
07-03-2007, 01:11 PM
hmm 3d software is for smart people, maybe you should move on to something more in your league. like knitting.

as far as personal attacks



thats the only personal attack i see.

typical mac user.

Hmmm - personal attack from you, right there, I would say.

Typical PC user.

How does that feel? Are you looking to get people to dislike you? By the way, I don't know you, so I can't judge how you are elsewhere. I saw your posts in THIS thread, and from what I can tell, you are as much a zealot as the mac users you accuse.

"People in glass houses should learn not to throw stones"
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
and stuff like that.

As a "public" forum, you don't have to share who you are by photo, name, or anything, so it's easy to be rude, crude and obnoxious. Come on folks. The question at hand was about the iPhone, and who was getting one. Now it's about how ALL mac users are zealots, and ALL PCs suck, and ALL Macs are overprices, and ALL of you involved in this discussion need to re-evaluate your own postings. SOME Mac users are zealots. SOME PCs suck. I personally don't think ANY Macs are overpriced, and SOME of you need to chill out.

jeremyhardin
07-03-2007, 01:24 PM
Do not cross the line unless you want to be the one standing in the poo. As things are now, we are all on the side of the line with 'less poo'. Let's keep it that way.

No parting shots, no further arguments, no flame bait, nada.

Thank you,
-Chilton

mlinde, you may have successfully gotten this thread closed. it was done mate. here's the quote from Chilton stopping it.

sean hargreaves
07-03-2007, 01:30 PM
Guys, just read my last post! And forget the very last line! Everyone needs to chill!

byte_fx
07-03-2007, 06:03 PM
chillin'

feels kinda good in tne midst of a heat wave.

byte_fx

Kuzey
07-04-2007, 04:32 AM
And I tried so hard to bring this thread back to on topic :hey:

I'm surprised they didn't compare the LG touchscreen phone to the iPhone in the review that Jeremy linked.

One person actually said it would be great if they could use the iPhone as a modem...that sounds nice to me. Also, I hope that Apple adds the pasteboard to the mini MacOSX so we can copy and paste.

Kuzey

RonGC
07-04-2007, 12:02 PM
The trouble with adding to much to the OS in the iphone is that it will make it easier to crack the system.

There is a big effort by hackers and legit outfits going on right now to unlock the phone. Being with out a command line interface the phone is so far a tough nut to crack LOL

The idea being if you can unlock the phone you can use any carrier service, not sure if that would work in practice.

Ron

campbellpro
07-04-2007, 03:26 PM
The LG Prada is more expensive than the iPhone with hardly any internal memory.

Stooch
07-05-2007, 06:08 PM
ok. so the iphone is out. I got a chance to take a look at it becaues some of my friends got theirs. (mac heads heh)... anyway my supsicions are largely proven true. I like the way the keyboard works and I like the navigation for pictures and albums... but it stops here.

i think that the best company for phones these days is the sony ericcsson line, its phones have been running as the worlds top selling models and with good reason. because they make GOOD PHONES first and foremost. They also have the best cameras included with the phones and offer just as many features (if not more) then the iphone. check out www.sonyericsson.com

anyway so onto the iphone. number one glaring flaw. Its too damn nice and pretty. its so nice and so expensive that one would be literally afraid to treat it like a phone. IE, keep it in the pocket and not worry about scratching it all the time. All sony ericsson models have a neat feature where you can replace the entire exterior shell for about 10 bucks for a brand new looking phone on a whim.

the iphone camera sucks. just like the majority of phones out there. Sonys phones use carl zeiss optics and even come with lens covers on some models.

For me, my pipedream is to have a really nice camera phone. becaues my philosophy is "whats the point of having a really nice digital camera if you arent carrying it on you at all times". so for me, having a really nice camera on the phone is a must have feature. (yes i do have a real digi camera).

The web browser is slow. everyone knows this so i wont elaborate.

the face is prone to scratches and fingerprints. again, i think that apple is making a huge mistake by marketing a "phone" that cant be treated like one. (unless you like to replace your 600 dollar phone all the time).

you cannot dial withouth looking at the phone. this is just stupid. no voice activation features exacerbate the problem.

It also looks as if this phone will shatter into 1000 pieces if dropped. I have dropped all of my phones i owned so far, not on purpose but **** happens. I cant imagine dropping the iphone. that would be terrible.

the speakers on the iphone are also way too quiet. i cant imagine talking on this thing while driving or at a bar.

in closing, i think that apple came up with a new super ipod. however they simply do no thave the chops nor experience of someone like sony or nokia or other major phone makers to design a product that really serves the purpose of a functional phone. Its a nice, expensive toy. But it sucks where it counts. if judged on the merits on a "phone" this is a failure. if judged on the merits of a "web gadget", considering the speed of "edge" it is also a failure.

the camera is a joke. the only thing about this phone that gets thumbs up from me, is its looks and its brilliant UI. I will wait for the next version to see if they will learn from this experience. before any macboys start riding my nutts. id like to make it clear that its merely a gadget to me and I will laugh at anyone who tries to give me crap for having an opinion on a gadget. :)

different strokes for different folks.

sean hargreaves
07-05-2007, 06:33 PM
Stooch, I own a Mac system, and have been wondering about the IPhone. I don't know much about it other than the ads, and I hav'nt seen one real. I will wait until the next generation to even consider buying one, just for 'shaking out the bugs' sake. I love Apple, and their designs, and my computer does what I want it to do. I don't care whether this or that person has a P.C. or a Mac, hopefully, as artists, we're all trying to come up with something great.

I think your points in your last thread on the IPhone were really interesting. Especially the non-tactile feature that eliminates us being able to dial by memory, and non voice activation. I've been wondering about the scratch resistant screen, as in, is it? I'm a designer, so I love the look, but i always try to give whatever 'designy' thing I purchase a good going over first. It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Stooch
07-05-2007, 06:38 PM
oh believe me it looks incredible in person. but again, so did my ericsson for about a month of regular use. then it got all scratched up. i expect the iphone to fare no better. basically its areally nice gadget, but if you want to use it as a serious phone, buyer beware. if you are used to caring for your ipod and having a case for it etc. then i can see the iphone working for you, but again, the sound coming out of the speakers isnt as loud as it has to be, ive also heard rumors of bad battery life and spotty reception, but i didnt comment on these since i didnt use the phone extensively enough to be able to judge that.

Scazzino
07-05-2007, 08:18 PM
The iPhone will be another game changer (http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/the-iphone-is-perfect/)... :D
but it'll take a while for it to really sink in... ;)

Stooch
07-05-2007, 08:40 PM
John Gruber got it partly right, except for the 95 percent part. The iPhone is 100% perfect by any measure of the imagination.

aaaand tahts where i stopped reading. my personal observations aside (above) - nothing is perfect. the author of that article is clearly a fanboy.


The new stylus, the finger, is something no one else has done before. It is a new way to interact with digital devices and it works.

??? man this guy is clueless. the whole article is a giant opinion. its like me coming here and saying, lightwave is perfect. because the developers decided to leave stuff out on purpose, because they know better.... yeah right.

byte_fx
07-05-2007, 09:57 PM
Stooch :ohmy:

byte_fx

Kuzey
07-06-2007, 05:51 AM
Stooch, you are a very funny guy...me likes :D

The only good thing about a sonyericsson is the camera and that depends on which model you get.

The major problem with todays cell phone makers is they have a huge line of products that only differ a fraction if at all, not to mention they compete with each other....that's bad business. This way they are always on the back foot trying to stay current, Apple comes along and it seems they will do that same thing they did to the mp3 player market...lead it :)

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out and if they do make the changes we talked about....then who knows how far they can go.

Kuzey

Haven1000
07-06-2007, 07:57 AM
Apple comes along and it seems they will do that same thing they did to the mp3 player market...lead it :)

It'll be interesting to see if current phone makers (smart phones) try to follow where Apple has gone with a convergence all in one device. I can bet you that Microsoft will be pushing their existing clients of Windows Mobile to added better/more multimedia features to compete. MS won't want to have history repeating itself with missing out on the mp3 player market, where they left it up to third party manufacturers to compete with Apple only to become frustrated which lead to the debacle which was the Zune player.

Like it or not the iphone will become a massive success, in the long run they may not have the best device in every category of build, functions etc but they have the one which matters the most which is best brand, and ultimately that is what is going to shift shed loads of units.

I'll probably buy an iphone eventually, like I did with my 1st ipod in it's 3rd generation when it gave me all the requirements which I was looking for.

Scazzino
07-06-2007, 09:58 AM
??? man this guy is clueless. the whole article is a giant opinion. its like me coming here and saying, lightwave is perfect. because the developers decided to leave stuff out on purpose, because they know better.... yeah right.

Only time will tell who is "clueless" about the iPhone and who is not... ;)

TRCC
07-06-2007, 10:51 AM
PCworld tested the scratch resisance of the iPhone, and the impact resistance. It actually looks like it holds up well... don't believe? See for yer self...

http://www.pcworld.com/video/id,545-page,1-bid,0/video.html

Luke

Scazzino
07-06-2007, 12:51 PM
Here's another opinion piece on Apple's "game changing" abilities: ;)
The era of the PC is over: why Apple is beating Microsoft
(http://apcmag.com/6357/understanding_your_strengths)

Lightwolf
07-06-2007, 01:07 PM
Here's another opinion piece on Apple's "game changing" abilities: ;)
The era of the PC is over: why Apple is beating Microsoft
(http://apcmag.com/6357/understanding_your_strengths)
Actually, this would be great. We'd be back to the times where only nerds could use a workhore computer effectively, and we'd get those html mailing noobs off the net who think the internet has been designed to entertain them (while they get spammed and bombarded by more ad banners than they'd tolerate on TV).
Finally some piece and quiet again ;) Maybe we could downgrade to Web 1.0 again and let them roam Web 3.0 :D

Cheers,
Mike - who's turning into a luddite ;)

RonGC
07-06-2007, 01:51 PM
Griffen and others who make cases for ipods are already out with protective cases for the iPhone. One thing about these products from Apple is that they have caused a whole cottage industry to grow with accessories supporting their products. Thats got to be good for the economy and definitely good for small manufactures with a good idea.

Apple is not the only beneficiary, but thousands of other products that their gear spawn. You just don't see this level of accessory support for other PC products.

The iphone from all the RSS news feeds is not reviled and they all say the same thing, not bad for a first try at the phone thing and they really want to see where Apple takes this.

Ron

Stooch
07-06-2007, 05:49 PM
Only time will tell who is "clueless" about the iPhone and who is not... ;)

??? no time is needed. i can tell you right now that the guy is clueless. but cmon now, just read the title of the website that article is linked to and the slogan. how can you take anyone associated with that site seriously? its like asking Baghdad Bob about who is winning the war...

avkills
07-07-2007, 10:40 AM
i think that the best company for phones these days is the sony ericcsson line, its phones have been running as the worlds top selling models and with good reason. because they make GOOD PHONES first and foremost. They also have the best cameras included with the phones and offer just as many features (if not more) then the iphone. check out www.sonyericsson.com

My Sony Ericsson phone I replaced with the iPhone sucked ***, it was a T616. However the very first Sony Ericsson phone I owned rocked as a phone. The T616 did not hold up being in my bag and had a constant stream of static when talking.


you cannot dial withouth looking at the phone. this is just stupid. no voice activation features exacerbate the problem.

It also looks as if this phone will shatter into 1000 pieces if dropped. I have dropped all of my phones i owned so far, not on purpose but **** happens. I cant imagine dropping the iphone. that would be terrible.

the speakers on the iphone are also way too quiet. i cant imagine talking on this thing while driving or at a bar.

You should not be using a phone where you can't look at it, ie driving, etc etc. All phones suck trying to talk in bars. I have a rubber shell around mine, if I drop it I doubt anything will happen unless it falls face first on to a huge metal spike.

Web browsing is fast over WiFi, but what do you want from a phone. And you also have to imagine that the iPhone is not using a watered down browser, it is having to load the same amount of data as a computer.

The SMS messaging is awesome. This individual message list crap on other phones made me hate SMS, the iPhone cures this.

The iPhone actually works surprisingly well as a phone also; that was my biggest fear, but I figured I had nothing to lose since the phone I had sucked.

It is a damn fine iPod also. (I basically replaced my phone and my 1st gen ipod with this; so the purchase made a lot of sense to me.)

:beerchug:

-mark

campbellpro
07-07-2007, 01:13 PM
Some people wouldn't like the iPhone if it was made of gold and priced at 100.00 just because it says Apple. As far as its durability PC World dropped it on carpet ,tile, and concrete and it worked fine, but I'm sure it was a stunt phone. I'm not saying it is perfect but some of the complaints are pretty lame.

RonGC
07-07-2007, 02:01 PM
Of course it isn't perfect, there is no such animal. Nothing in nature is perfect, nothing made by man is perfect.

If you demand perfection your out of luck, it is not going to happen anywhere at any time.

You also cannot build anything that will please everyone, so if i like something and you hate something neither of us is wrong, its just personal likes and dislikes. It has nothing to do with intelligence or character, i like blue, hate maroon, It is what it is.

Ron

Stooch
07-07-2007, 05:19 PM
Some people wouldn't like the iPhone if it was made of gold and priced at 100.00 just because it says Apple. As far as its durability PC World dropped it on carpet ,tile, and concrete and it worked fine, but I'm sure it was a stunt phone. I'm not saying it is perfect but some of the complaints are pretty lame.

and who are you implying these people are? i gave a perfectly neutral opinion on the phone. i use macs all the time. its your kind of mentality that makes mac users look bad. all my mac user friends dont have this stupid elitist mentality or a sense of personal stake into their products. if they did, they wouldnt be my friends. i dont like to associate with people who get butthurt if i dont like their pc or think that their iphone has many flaws that prevent me from buying it.
as far as your gold comment, it really shows where you are coming from.

i wouldnt want a gold phone period. thats stupid. who the hell would want a gold phone? seriously. do you honestly think thats a good thing? is it because you treat it as a status symbol that you flaunt in front of other people? Personally i think gold is tacky...

Stooch
07-07-2007, 05:21 PM
Of course it isn't perfect, there is no such animal. Nothing in nature is perfect, nothing made by man is perfect.

If you demand perfection your out of luck, it is not going to happen anywhere at any time.

You also cannot build anything that will please everyone, so if i like something and you hate something neither of us is wrong, its just personal likes and dislikes. It has nothing to do with intelligence or character, i like blue, hate maroon, It is what it is.

Ron

you my friend are a shining beacon in the darkness. thats exactly the attitude i admire. this thread was started about the iphone and i gave my impression on it. end of story.

avkills
07-07-2007, 06:20 PM
is it because you treat it as a status symbol that you flaunt in front of other people? Personally i think gold is tacky...

I am sure some people I know at work are probably thinking that is why I bought one, but they would be wrong. Sure I like being one of the first ones with new technology, hell, the same people gave me the hardest time when I bought my 1st gen ipod, they thought I was nuts...now they all have them also.

My situation was probably not very unique, but like I said earlier, the phone I was using was a piece of garbage and I have been holding out as long as possible getting a newer iPod, so I killed two birds with one stone so to speak. I am just glad it actually *works* as a phone, otherwise I would have returned it.

-mark

RonGC
07-07-2007, 07:07 PM
Mark glad to see you enjoy the iphone.

You seem to be one of the few in this thread that actually owns one. How is the quality of the music, ipod comparable i would imagine. I read in an rss feed that the photo roll feature locked up and the user had to reset the iphone, any problems with this on your phone?

Ron

toby
07-07-2007, 08:46 PM
i wouldnt want a gold phone period. thats stupid. who the hell would want a gold phone? seriously. do you honestly think thats a good thing? is it because you treat it as a status symbol that you flaunt in front of other people? Personally i think gold is tacky...
dude, it's an expression. :foreheads

campbellpro
07-08-2007, 12:08 AM
Dude get a life. Did I say Stooch? I don't think so. People were giving it 1's on CNet 2 weeks before it came out! I don't care if you prefer 2 cups and a darn string. Just remember what you make when you assume.

campbellpro
07-08-2007, 12:12 AM
Oh by the way I had a sony ericcsson it died in two weeks "RIP"

campbellpro
07-08-2007, 12:17 AM
And finnally they make protective cases for every phone out there.

campbellpro
07-08-2007, 02:18 AM
Oh and I looked at a bunch of your post man your a negative dude!

Bill Carey
07-08-2007, 04:59 AM
$500 for a phone when there is still so much software I want? Be serious. If I find that much money laying around doing nothing I'll finally upgrade paint shop pro to photoshop. :D

avkills
07-08-2007, 10:42 AM
Mark glad to see you enjoy the iphone.

You seem to be one of the few in this thread that actually owns one. How is the quality of the music, ipod comparable i would imagine. I read in an rss feed that the photo roll feature locked up and the user had to reset the iphone, any problems with this on your phone?

Ron


Ron, I have not actually had any hiccups so far. I have not tried the photo roll though. I only have 3 pictures on it, which are some renders I made as wallpapers. The music quality is excellent, been listening to tunes at work in the edit suite and they sound great (good speakers help).

I've yet to get any voicemails either, so I can't comment on the visual voicemail feature as of yet. The SMS messages is the bomb though. It acts like an iChat chat and stores them by person, so you can go back to the same chat whenever you want. Pretty slick, only downside is there is no way to send a single SMS to multiple people as of yet.

The screen gets smudgy real quick, but the backlight on this thing is so bright that you don't see any when you look straight on with the screen. The screen is also optical quality glass, so it is easy to clean, it comes with a screen cleaner.

Oh yeah, I also had to modify my headphone jack (shure e3c) to plug in, the headphone port is recessed in pretty far, I also performed the same procedure at work on the stereo-mini to 1/4" adapter so I could have tunes through my studio monitors.

-mark

Phil
07-11-2007, 01:34 PM
The iPhone in its natural environment :

http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone

:D

brian.coates
07-11-2007, 09:04 PM
http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone

Oh man, that was just painful to watch. :D

BTW, how come in all of the ads for the iPhone the time display reads 9:42 AM?

There must be some psychological reason for it but damned if I can think of one.