PDA

View Full Version : LCD monitor recommendations ?



oDDity
06-25-2007, 06:04 AM
I want a 22-24" widescreen one around the 400-500 range.
I'm wary of TFT's, most of the ones I've seen in shops didn't look very good compared to my old cheapo CRT, but I suppose the technology has been getting better and cheaper over the years, so surely you can get one with as good a quality as a CRT for a reasonable price these days?
The problem is buying them over the internet, so you don't really know what you're getting.

sammael
06-25-2007, 06:36 AM
Im looking at getting a 24" as well, I was considering one of these
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p1

sammael
06-25-2007, 06:40 AM
Heres another review thats not so fanboyish http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=69281
it still gets a decent wrap.

oDDity
06-25-2007, 06:52 AM
Looks nice, but the reviewer it seems is not a CG artists of any kind, he talked about gaming and watching movies.
I'd really prefer a monitor reviewed by a serious CG artist with refined sense of taste when it come to image quality.

sammael
06-25-2007, 06:57 AM
Well if you have the cash I would go for a Wacom, those are made for artists. Apple would be a good pick too, as for the above Monitor having been researching the subject myself for the price that one seems too have the overall best feature set and image quality in general terms accross a wide range of reviewers.

sammael
06-25-2007, 07:11 AM
Although even the 17" wacom is 1000 or so, which is strange because I can get one here for around the same price as a 24"

oDDity
06-25-2007, 08:49 AM
That's mental, you can get 30" displays for that much these days.
I think I'll have to go for the benq anyway, there's surprisingly little choice of 24" LCDs, and that seems to be the best one. It'll make a hell of a difference from the 17" CRT I've been using for the last 3 years...

oDDity
06-25-2007, 08:56 AM
That site, trustedreviews.com is great BTW, not only good reviews, but gives you a list of all the cheapest online prices.

redlum
06-25-2007, 09:31 AM
what do you guys think of this one?

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Digital/LS24HUBCFVXAA.asp

Lightwolf
06-25-2007, 09:37 AM
what do you guys think of this one?

I just read a short (print) review of it and it seems to be quite decent, especially for the money.

Also, no frame latency if you enable overdrive (which is important if you plan to use it to edit video).

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
06-25-2007, 09:46 AM
One more thing: Make sure it has DVI in and that you actually use it. And whatever you do, drive it at its native resolution.

Cheers,
Mike

redlum
06-25-2007, 09:52 AM
Also, no frame latency if you enable overdrive (which is important if you plan to use it to edit video).

One more thing: Make sure it has DVI in and that you actually use it. And whatever you do, drive it at its native resolution.

That's a little beyond my understanding of monitors. So you plug it in the computer and then. . .

I have a G5 tower. The graphics card has two DVI connections but I only want to get one monitor because my desk won't hold two. I thought about a 24 or 22 inch. It all depends on the budget.

I also use Final Cut Express, which is such a great program for video (Sorry Newtek). I used the Toaster back when it was on the Amiga. One of the reasons why I changed my career and got into graphics. But now I'm off topic so I will stop.

oDDity
06-25-2007, 09:55 AM
That samsung is quite a bit more expensive than the benq though, and the reviews have them about equal as far as quality. I really wouldn't want to spend more than 500 on a monitor, and you can get the benq for 480, which is perfect. The samsung is around 700.

Lightwolf
06-25-2007, 10:11 AM
That samsung is quite a bit more expensive than the benq though, and the reviews have them about equal as far as quality. I really wouldn't want to spend more than 500 on a monitor, and you can get the benq for 480, which is perfect. The samsung is around 700.
Weird, the Samsung SyncMaster 245B (which is brand new), is around 250€ cheaper than the BenQ FP241W over here.
There is a Samsung SyncMaster 244T, but that one is more expensive. You might also want to have a look at the Dell ( 2407WFP ) which is pretty decent, and Dell offers good rebates every now and then (currently 25% off in the UK = 522.58).

Cheers,
Mike

mattclary
06-25-2007, 10:14 AM
The flood of these inexpensive 20+ inch widescreen LCDs is caused by the switch to some (slightly) inferior technology in the TFT arena. I bought a 20" widescreen Samsung (1680x1050) a few months ago. The only downside to them is the viewing angles aren't as good as the 19" (1280x1024) I had before.

I know color reproduction can be an issue for some of us, but the color looks ok to me.

I read something a while back about an LCD tech that uses more bits per pixel for color than your standard LCD that supposedly has a BETTER color than a CRT. I remember at the time looking the monitor up at Newegg.com and it was very expensive, like ~$1200 or so...

If you want the absolute best color out there, you might want to research it, I just can't remember very much about it as I dismissed it once I saw the price.

I've been really happy with Samsungs. I would recommend you get the most expensive Samsung that fits in your budget, odds are it will make you happy.

Also, I know you probably won't buy one from there, since you are in Europe, but the user reviews you can read at Newegg are really useful. I highly recommend you take a look at them.

redlum
06-25-2007, 10:16 AM
Weird, the Samsung SyncMaster 245B (which is brand new), is around 250 cheaper than the BenQ FP241W over here.
There is a Samsung SyncMaster 244T, but that one is more expensive.

the 244T is twice the price of the 245BW. I found the 245BW at Amazon for $519.

mattclary
06-25-2007, 10:19 AM
Funny, that BenQ is more expensive at Newegg than the Samsung is, by about $200.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014124

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234

Lightwolf
06-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Funny, that BenQ is more expensive at Newegg than the Samsung is, by about $200.

The Samsung is the first in this class to use a different, cheaper panel. It apparently still have a very decent image.

Cheers,
mike

mattclary
06-25-2007, 10:27 AM
The Samsung is the first in this class to use a different, cheaper panel. It apparently still have a very decent image.

Cheers,
mike

Probably the same panel mine has. Looks good as long as you are looking at it from the desk and not standing up. The up/down angles are noticeable, the side to side don't seem to be affected. Not a big deal to me, I rarely work standing over my monitor. ;)

jasonwestmas
06-25-2007, 10:43 AM
View sonic is the best view for your dollar, pound or euro. I have a 22" Viewsonic VX2235wm LCD. I got it for $400. It's cheaper now and it works awesome imo. Not sure how much it is over there.

redlum
06-25-2007, 10:46 AM
but what's the warranty like? I found other 24" monitors but they only were covered for 1 year. Samsung has a 3 year warranty.

Sande
06-25-2007, 11:13 AM
My only recommendation would be to save enough money to buy the best monitor you can afford, even if it means you would have to wait a bit. If I calculated correctly, your budget is about 750 euros? At least here in Finland you can't get a professional 24" LCD with that...

oDDity
06-25-2007, 11:14 AM
Those newegg prices are really annoying. Not only do I get screwed on the currency conversion when I do work for US clients, but US prices are also a lot cheaper, but they don't do international orders, so I can't even take advantage of the conversion rate the other way round...

Stooch
06-25-2007, 11:18 AM
I want a 22-24" widescreen one around the 400-500 range.
I'm wary of TFT's, most of the ones I've seen in shops didn't look very good compared to my old cheapo CRT, but I suppose the technology has been getting better and cheaper over the years, so surely you can get one with as good a quality as a CRT for a reasonable price these days?
The problem is buying them over the internet, so you don't really know what you're getting.

Dell UltraSharp 2407FPW

nuff said. I work part time in a mac based studio and even though macs have great monitors, they use all dells, because they are cheaper, have better image quality and better support. they also look really nice. its a 24inch wide screen format. just make sure to get the latest revision. i paid 700 usd for mine which is perfectly in your price range.

I have done lots of research and have personally used monitors when choosing this. I have persionally looked quite few models with critical eye towards false countouring, gradient quality and backlight distribution. they are all so far superior to anything mac has on the market and they are generally treated as a benchmark as far as lcd quality is concerned. I am a picky bastard that does alot of design and some photoshop painting, so im very anal about taht stuff and have been very happy with the dell.

make sure you get the latest revision though. mine if 04 and its a market improvement over the previous ones.

Stooch
06-25-2007, 11:25 AM
damn editing time limit. stupid. stupid. stupid.

StereoMike
06-25-2007, 11:31 AM
I have a Dell 2405 (24", m-pva) and a Dell 2001 (20", s-ips).
I bought the 2001 as a used monitor (2 or 3years old,has been leased) for 220 €.
I am so glad about it. for 220 € you get a 1600x1200 monitor. And the technology (s-ips) belongs to the top end.
I can wholeheartedly recommend buying a used dell 2001.

mike

TheDynamo
06-25-2007, 11:32 AM
I've got one here at work and once you turn down the insane brightness level, the monitor is spot on. I use it for color correction, motion graphics among other various applications. I think you can get it for pretty decent on the price-o-meter as well.

Gods, I just recommended a Dell. I think I better go wash my mouth out...

-Dyn

jasonwestmas
06-25-2007, 11:32 AM
but what's the warranty like? I found other 24" monitors but they only were covered for 1 year. Samsung has a 3 year warranty.

Often times you have to purchase your warranty to go beyond a year. I have really good luck and I trust viewsonic a lot soo there's your answer.

mattclary
06-25-2007, 11:32 AM
Those newegg prices are really annoying. Not only do I get screwed on the currency conversion when I do work for US clients, but US prices are also a lot cheaper, but they don't do international orders, so I can't even take advantage of the conversion rate the other way round...


Yeah, forget all that, just read the user reviews. ;)

StereoMike
06-25-2007, 11:34 AM
oh i can also wholeheartedly recommend buying a new 24" dell. I luv it.
But for 400-500 € you'd get two used 2001 and then you have 3200x1600 for little money. wohoo.

mike

oDDity
06-25-2007, 11:34 AM
RE - Dell UltraSharp 2407FPW

Is that the same as the ultrasharp 2407WFP?
It doesn't get a very good review at trustedreviews at least (http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/06/15/Dell-Ultrasharp-2407WFP-24in-Widescreen/p1), it only gets a 8 out of 10 for image quality compared to 10/10 for the benq and samsung.

Stooch
06-25-2007, 11:39 AM
hmm. well i have found reviews that spoke highly of the monitor while looking. just passing on my experience :)

i recommen d you actually go to a store that sells em and take em for a test drive. open up the command prompt and maximize it full screen to check backlight uniformity. see if you can go to a website with a calibration image to check gradient quality etc. thats what i did rather then trust a review site entirely.

Stooch
06-25-2007, 11:42 AM
btw i have been in several studios here in LA now and see nothing but dells. at my full time job we use the dells exclusively. and another note, most of these monitors are using the same supplier for their LCD units. so all these image quality evals need to be taken with a grain of salt. take a look in real life and decide for yourself :)

mattclary
06-25-2007, 11:55 AM
I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think LCDs are like laptops. Even though there are half a gazillion brands out there, there are only a handful of companies that actually make the panels.

Might behoove you to figure out which brands share panel manufacturers.

sammael
06-25-2007, 11:56 AM
Yeah I looked quite extensively at all the options, im going with the benq as well.

Safe Harbor
06-25-2007, 12:00 PM
We have found that the best LCD for graphic artists, hands down, are the LaCie monitors. I'm not sure what the conversion rate is, I'm sure they're probably too expensive - but if you can swing it, that's what I'd recommend.

Lightwolf
06-25-2007, 12:14 PM
We have found that the best LCD for graphic artists, hands down, are the LaCie monitors.
Well, you could get an Eizo as well... but you easily pay twice the amount you'd pay for a decent 24" of another brand. I'd think you're better of spending some money on a calibration tool if needed.

Cheers,
Mike

mattclary
06-25-2007, 12:15 PM
This has some good info in it. Note the limited list of OEMs. There are probably more, but these are the top 5.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

oDDity
06-25-2007, 12:16 PM
I don't need that level of monitor, I'm not doing that sort of work where the colours have to be 100% technically accurate, I just want a decent monitor.
I think any of the benq, dell or samsung 24" will be good enough for my purposes..

Sekhar
06-25-2007, 12:39 PM
Anyone used the Dell 24" (or other similar monitors) for video monitoring as well? I've found Dell to be one of few to give a variety of input options, including S-Video good for DV monitoring. However, I'm not sure how the colors/gamma compare to those of a regular pro video monitor and if they can be tweaked to match one. If you can do that, I think Dell would be hard to beat.

Nicolas Jordan
06-25-2007, 12:46 PM
I've been looking at getting this 22" LG wide screen http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/computer%20products_lcd%20monitors_windows%20vista %20certified_L226WT-BF.jhtml

It's only $300 cdn and is $400 cheaper than a 24" LG. I currently own a 19" LG LCD and a 19" Samsung CRT. I am just thinking about doing away with my dual monitor setup in favor of a nice wide screen. I definitely won't pay $400 more just for 2 more inches. Does anyone here own this 22" LG wide screen model yet?

mattclary
06-25-2007, 12:53 PM
I've been looking at getting this 22" LG wide screen http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/computer%20products_lcd%20monitors_windows%20vista %20certified_L226WT-BF.jhtml

It's only $300 cdn and is $400 cheaper than a 24" LG. I currently own a 19" LG LCD and a 19" Samsung CRT. I am just thinking about doing away with my dual monitor setup in favor of a nice wide screen. I definitely won't pay $400 more just for 2 more inches. Does anyone here own this 22" LG wide screen model yet?

Don't necessarily think of it as 2 more inches, do the math on how many more pixels you get. 1680x1050 = 1764000 pixels; 1280 x 1024 = 1310720 pixels.

redlum
06-25-2007, 12:56 PM
Samsung makes a 22" with similar specs.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Digital/LS22MEWSFVXAA.asp

Lito
06-25-2007, 01:01 PM
I have a Dell 2407 and I love it for DVI and VGA inputs, but the Component input is pretty terrible. Even with a full 1080i or 720p signal the Component input is just horrible. There is a ghosting on the screen with component and you can reduce it with the various controls like sharpness, contrast and brightness settings, but you can't eliminate it completely.

sammael
06-25-2007, 01:04 PM
Anyone used the Dell 24" (or other similar monitors) for video monitoring as well? I've found Dell to be one of few to give a variety of input options, including S-Video good for DV monitoring. However, I'm not sure how the colors/gamma compare to those of a regular pro video monitor and if they can be tweaked to match one. If you can do that, I think Dell would be hard to beat.

Part of the reason im going with the benq is this

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7953/34253tl0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
DVI, HDMI, VGA, Component, Composite, S

The image quality in all the reviews I read says its top notch for Video as well as data, at least in that price bracket.

FredyN
06-25-2007, 02:31 PM
I have BenQ 24", is good and have many imputs :)
a small minus: the buttons are on the side :( - i wanted twoo of them for my PC

Matt
06-25-2007, 04:21 PM
I bought a 24" ViewSonic last year because of their 'reputation', but had to sent it back immediately.

The build quality was shocking for a 600 TFT, the casing where the buttons were at the bottom of the screen bulged out so much I could see the shielding behind.

It had two dead pixels right in the eye-line. Also when calibrating it using my Pantone EyeOne, it displayed blue fringing all over the screen when I adjusted the contrast to the level I needed, so I had to settle either side in order to get rid of it.

Could have been a dodgy one, but I will never trust one again, glad to see the back of it.

I wish I could find a 24" WS version of the 19" Sharp TFT I'm using now, it's been rock solid for years now, no dead pixels, crisp picture and faithful colours.

Just a bit too small for what I need now.

I was looking at the Dell UltraSharp range, I have a 19" one at work and it too has been a great performer.

mgcross
06-25-2007, 04:37 PM
I've got a Dell 2407WFP (rev A03). No dead pixels, pretty nice, but I do notice some banding. The Apple Cinema displays used by others in the office look like they have truer color and fewer artifacts. Check out this page for banding/gamma tests: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

AbnRanger
06-26-2007, 01:14 AM
Samsung makes a 22" with similar specs.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Digital/LS22MEWSFVXAA.aspThat's pretty much identical to the model I have...the 225BW. I love it.
Samsung is the largest Memory manufacturer in the world, and when you see their name on the memory module, you have a rock solid component. They also have a massive footprint in the largescreen HD LCD (home theater) market. My friend has a 40" screen at his house...very crisp picture, and vibrant colors. Having a 3yr warranty is a rarity in consumer electronics, and is worth spending a little bit more for.

MiniFireDragon
06-26-2007, 07:22 AM
It maybe a little late for this post, and it may have been said already, but if you want to know what to buy, walk into stores that sell LCD monitors. Look at the picture quality of them. Most run long hours of the day. Alot will look faded and blurred. Samsung and Benq are like this. When I purchase LCD's I seek out Viewsonic or MAG. Time and time again they are always the brightest and clearest displays sitting on the shelves. Over the years Samsung has gotten better at shelf life.

The other things to look at are MS and max screen res. The higher the res the finer the picture and lines you will have. The MS is mostly for movie watching as it is how fast the pixel refresh is. The lower the MS the higher the cost.

Also check the manufactures websites for their dead pixel warranties, will give you an idea of the tolerances on their production lines.

Lewis
06-26-2007, 09:23 AM
Hi

Whatever you decide just be sure to buy S-IPS panel for Graphics and you'll be happy with view angle and colors. Dell have some weird "lottery" system with 20-24" displays which uses various panels in production so you don't really know is it S-IPS untill you get it but IFAIK rev A04 (24") should be all S-IPS and you would be safe with that revision. Previous revisions had 2-3 different panel types so they aren't best option for Graphics. I'm using 30" Dell (3007 FPW which is ALL revision S-IPS panel) for last 7 months and i have absolutely no problems, no dead pixels - works like charm from day one and i was surprised how great is color reproduction comparing to my 22" CRT iiyama VMPro 514:). Next week I'll get Dell 2407 at work and then i can tell you how is it comparing to other smaller models i use on daily basis (2*Philips 19", 4*Samsung 17" and one Samsung 20").

cheers

jasonwestmas
06-26-2007, 09:56 AM
I bought a 24" ViewSonic last year because of their 'reputation', but had to sent it back immediately.

The build quality was shocking for a 600 TFT, the casing where the buttons were at the bottom of the screen bulged out so much I could see the shielding behind.

It had two dead pixels right in the eye-line. Also when calibrating it using my Pantone EyeOne, it displayed blue fringing all over the screen when I adjusted the contrast to the level I needed, so I had to settle either side in order to get rid of it.

Could have been a dodgy one, but I will never trust one again, glad to see the back of it.

I wish I could find a 24" WS version of the 19" Sharp TFT I'm using now, it's been rock solid for years now, no dead pixels, crisp picture and faithful colours.

Just a bit too small for what I need now.

I was looking at the Dell UltraSharp range, I have a 19" one at work and it too has been a great performer.

You may not need a waranty for that piece of garbage ;D

bobakabob
06-26-2007, 10:16 AM
Dell monitors are excellent value - can't fault 'em.

Steamthrower
06-26-2007, 10:37 AM
I would recommend a Samsung SyncMaster 205bw. It is a 20" wide thing that costs about $300 and is clearer than my Dell UltraSharp. It's TFT, but it's my favorite monitor so far.

Stooch
06-26-2007, 02:04 PM
yep thats why i recommended the a04 revision in my post ;) Im using one now and i have compared it to the huge *** expensive apple cinema and the dell has faster response time a bit more contrast. the apple sure is huge though. as far as color balance, they are close enough, calibration is always key though.

If i was to buy another monitor tomorrow, it would be another 24inch dell rev a04 + its a sexy sexy monitor too.



Hi

Whatever you decide just be sure to buy S-IPS panel for Graphics and you'll be happy with view angle and colors. Dell have some weird "lottery" system with 20-24" displays which uses various panels in production so you don't really know is it S-IPS untill you get it but IFAIK rev A04 (24") should be all S-IPS and you would be safe with that revision. Previous revisions had 2-3 different panel types so they aren't best option for Graphics. I'm using 30" Dell (3007 FPW which is ALL revision S-IPS panel) for last 7 months and i have absolutely no problems, no dead pixels - works like charm from day one and i was surprised how great is color reproduction comparing to my 22" CRT iiyama VMPro 514:). Next week I'll get Dell 2407 at work and then i can tell you how is it comparing to other smaller models i use on daily basis (2*Philips 19", 4*Samsung 17" and one Samsung 20").

cheers

Stooch
06-26-2007, 02:07 PM
I've got a Dell 2407WFP (rev A03). No dead pixels, pretty nice, but I do notice some banding. The Apple Cinema displays used by others in the office look like they have truer color and fewer artifacts. Check out this page for banding/gamma tests: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

anandtech can confirm that the revision 03 from dells is a little bit lacking however when looking at the a04 they added that they couldnt detect most of the banding they saw earlier. sorry but you got the short end of the stick doh! I actually ended up searching on ebay specifically for A04 and im very glad i did.

no i dont work for dell.

Sande
06-26-2007, 03:38 PM
i was surprised how great is color reproduction comparing to my 22" CRT iiyama VMPro 514:).
Just out of curiosity - was it better than Iiyama's or was it just better than you expected?

Lewis
06-26-2007, 03:54 PM
Just out of curiosity - was it better than Iiyama's or was it just better than you expected?

Little bit of both actually :).

iiyama is still here on my 2nd computer (old P4 - 3GHz) so i can compare on daily basis and this 30" Dell have more rich colors and contrast is way better no matter that iiyama has Diamondtron U2-CRT tube. Actually I have 2 iiyamas, one is this 22" 514 VM Pro and other is 19" 451 VM Pro and both are great but they are old by now (19" is 5 years with me (assembled in Switzerland) and 22" is almost 4 by now (Made in Japan)) so tube isn't really great as it once was so now Dell looks better for everything except playing videos :). Videos are too sharp on LCD so you can see all codec errors while on CRT is smooth (like on TV) since it's little bit blurred actually. But I was impressed with response on Dell. I though there will be some ghosting but there is none so it can be used for NLE editing too. Viewing angle is fantastic and you reall need to look trhough extreme angle to see any brightnes/color problems and it's hughe so you can't really sit at front of it in weird angle to make it look bad. It's EVERYWHERE and looks great form all angles :) :) :).

oDDity
06-26-2007, 04:18 PM
Think I might go for the dell 24" actually. The review I read is a year old so the banding problem was no doubt because of an earlier model. The site I can find with the best price is selling the a04 revision, and it's cheaper than the benQ, plus free delivery.
IT's actually even cheaper on ebay, there's a lot of dells, but I'm not too sure about ebay stuff. Is it wise to buy stuff like this from ebay?

Lewis
06-26-2007, 04:31 PM
Not sure about ebay (the ymight be super cool but i don't know) but i'd rather buy it directly in store just in case if there is some problems or so. If you have nice store they might even give you option to look it before buying to see is there any bad pixels or any damage/problems so you can get better one.

oDDity
06-26-2007, 05:25 PM
Actually, forget the dell, the a04 revision stil lhas ghosting, streaking and banding issues.

http://www.dvhardware.net/review93_dell_2407wfp.html

Russel
06-26-2007, 09:28 PM
(If it makes any difference at this point...)
I also have a Samsung 225BW monitor and I haven't had any problems with it.

-russ

Stooch
06-26-2007, 11:51 PM
Think I might go for the dell 24" actually. The review I read is a year old so the banding problem was no doubt because of an earlier model. The site I can find with the best price is selling the a04 revision, and it's cheaper than the benQ, plus free delivery.
IT's actually even cheaper on ebay, there's a lot of dells, but I'm not too sure about ebay stuff. Is it wise to buy stuff like this from ebay?

i bought mine on ebay for 700 usd shipped. a dell monitor is a very good choice. all the pros use it (including me heh heh ) so far all the places i worked at always used dells. so they are battle tested for sure! im sure you will enjoy it. As far as buying from ebay, make sure its an authorised reseller so that there are no questions with warranty and make sure that you are buying the a04 or newer, make triple sure and when you place the order leave a note to the seller too. watch out for cheap deals, they might not be the latest rev...


the a04 has a little bit of banding if you look for it. but i havent seen a monitor taht doesnt at that price range. if you want a completely banding free LCD, you will have to settle for A) steep price and B) high latency

there are rumors that apple is going to launch their new LCD line with a new technology that hopefully will result in less banding but they will cost alot more (as they always do). as of now, finding a flawless monitor for the price you want to pay is a pipedream. (i do alot of design and color sensitive stuff and consider the issue negligible)

Stooch
06-26-2007, 11:57 PM
p.s. I have bought and returned 2 monitors from bestbuy while searching for my monitor, so i am quite serious about my LCD purchases. :)

AbnRanger
06-27-2007, 12:23 AM
oDDity, find what you want for the best price on Ebay, and then post the link(s) on here for some of the more experienced E-bay shoppers here to have a look, and comment as to whether they can be trusted or not.

I bought a brand new camera (from an Camera store online) for a digital photography class, over a year ago, and ended up selling it a few months later...only got about half of what I paid for it.
So, you can really find some good deals there. Some of the resellers actually sell brand new models...still in the box, so those are usually cheaper than retail stores, but they aren't drastically cheaper. You may want to find a model that's only slighty used and in "like new" condition, to get one really cheap.

Most reputable E-Bay sellers will allow you to return the item within a short period (7-14 days) IF something is wrong with the unit, not if you just changed your mind.

If they state a return policy on their product page, EBay holds them to it.

oDDity
06-27-2007, 01:13 AM
I think I'll get the benQ anyway, and I couldn't find any of those on ebay. No one has a bad word to say about it, except the buttons being on the side, which is hardly an issue.

sammael
06-27-2007, 01:29 AM
Thats something I like about the benq, better on the bottom but at least theyre not on the front. I wouldnt buy a monitor of ebay personally there are too many issues with dead pixels, even if they would replace the monitor they'll probably make you pay for shipping again. Im convinced a lot of disties sell the bung moinitors on there to get rid of them. Thats what we used to do at a distie I worked at a few years back... or take them to a swap meet and flog them slightly cheaper.

RedBull
06-27-2007, 02:12 AM
The current Dell 24" A04 HN208L6 is a S-IPS based 24", one of the few... The A04 HN213 is a Samsung panel (same as used in the BenQ and Samsung 24" models) Dell often play the panel lottery.

Avoid 6bit 22" monitors like the plague.

Most of the 24" models currently only offer 72% NTSC color reproduction.
The new Dell 24" HC model is already released in Japan with 92% NTSC.
(It's more expensive than the current 24" obviously) And newer panels will have 120% NTSC color spectrum via LED backlighting.
So LCD is almost surpassing CRT. For us graphics people.

But i agree with others, that save the money and buy the best you can...
Monitors tend to be one part i don't skimp.

NEC likely have the best 24" but it's really expensive, uses a 12bit wide gamut lookup.

oDDity
06-27-2007, 02:22 AM
If they all use the same panel, how can there be any differences between them. Surely what you see on screen will be exactly the same in all 3.
Monitor buying js seems like a waste of money to me in general, it seems like a luxury item, it's not increasing your productivity in any real way, unlike upgrading new internal components.
I'll really be no better off after having spent 500 on a new monitor than I am with my 17" CRT, except for more desktop space. That's why I can't stomach the idea of spending 1000 on a monitor.

StereoMike
06-27-2007, 06:11 AM
Monitor buying js seems like a waste of money to me in general, it seems like a luxury item, it's not increasing your productivity in any real way, unlike upgrading new internal components.

I thought like this some years ago. Today I think the monitor is one of the most important parts of the rig. I change the components more often than the monitors, so it makes much more sense to buy something that you enjoy a long time.
And: I got such an eyestrain by CRT, I will never go back.

mike

zardoz
06-27-2007, 09:28 AM
I have two of these:
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/s1911_01/index.asp

and the quality is great. I had a 19 inch MAG for years (it was huge) and it's quality was really good. Then I got these two.

You can connect them with usb and callibrate them both with the software that comes with the screen.

I can't find the price in uk but it should be around 500 quids.

jasonwestmas
06-27-2007, 09:42 AM
If you plan on animating, a large monitor makes it a lot more enjoyable, just like having more hard drive space makse video editing and more Ram makes the computer have higher capabilities. I know you said you just like to sculpt for the most part but if you ever have an app that allows you to have a lot of windows/panels open at once, a 22-24" will make you wonder why you didn't make the move.

mattclary
06-27-2007, 10:17 AM
If they all use the same panel, how can there be any differences between them. Surely what you see on screen will be exactly the same in all 3.
Monitor buying js seems like a waste of money to me in general, it seems like a luxury item, it's not increasing your productivity in any real way, unlike upgrading new internal components.
I'll really be no better off after having spent 500 on a new monitor than I am with my 17" CRT, except for more desktop space. That's why I can't stomach the idea of spending 1000 on a monitor.


Oddity, your 17" probably runs at 1024x768. If you run at 1280x1024, it is probably pretty small. A widescreen SHOULD run at least 1680x1050 (don't buy any of those ****x900 pieces of junk). Your pixel count will be higher meaning you can view more data on the screen. Most GUI elements in Windows are predefined at a certain number of pixels, say 25x25 for an icon. More pixels=more info you will be able to access. i.e. More space for viewports and dialog boxes. ;)

Lightwolf
06-27-2007, 11:13 AM
I thought like this some years ago. Today I think the monitor is one of the most important parts of the rig. I change the components more often than the monitors, so it makes much more sense to buy something that you enjoy a long time.

Quoted for absolute agreement. Which is why I'm saving up for a 30" :D

Cheers,
Mike

cagey5
06-27-2007, 12:10 PM
And: I got such an eyestrain by CRT, I will never go back.

mike

This is the biggest thing for me. Tremendous difference since I got an LCD widescreen. That and the ability to still see
the screen when the sun is bright.

kopperdrake
06-27-2007, 12:24 PM
I also use the Dell 2407 widescreen 24". As said before - make sure you get the MkIII or later, they fixed some glitches from II onwards. I found the colours to be less accurate for print work then my old trusty 17" NEC 1760 - that was perfect for colour repro, but with some tweaking of brightness, as has also been mentioned, it does the job reasonably well at a reasonable price. I use it on Macs and PCs with no issue with colour - the main thing is that the gamut does seem to be quite good - I had to actually turn down the brightness and contrast to better reflect the output on paper! I'd happily buy another for print work :) Oh - I paid about 430 for mine about 4 months ago - and definitely use the DVI input.

Tiger
06-27-2007, 01:16 PM
I use a Samsung 22 TFTSyncMaster 226 BW.
Great quality :D

RedBull
06-27-2007, 04:52 PM
If they all use the same panel, how can there be any differences between them. Surely what you see on screen will be exactly the same in all 3.


Sharp, LG.Philips, Samsung, AUOptronics and Chemei are where the panels come from.

They will be all similar but most of the processer controls are done via manufacturers own specifications.

So Samsung have engineers that make MagicBright technology, and actually put some more thought into say color reproduction, than the others.
Others will put more software processing on say ghosting or something else, in comparison to another maker.

Eizo and NEC are the only two manufacturers who are providing 12bit gamut lookup and providing further enhancements.

Current 8bit LCD's for example have no use for Adobe color profiles, as this were designed for 16bit CRT's....

Although the Eizo 24" is also Samsung PVA panel, not a S-IPS like the rest of their pro graphics monitors. So NEC definately have the best 24" of the lot.
But at around twice the price as the BenQ, you get what you pay for.

Currently using Dual LCD's and there's no going back to CRT, (depsite missing some colors) I would look at buying another HC 24" (if it has the S-IPS panel like my current one) as size and quality of monitor is worth far more than most other of my components IMO...

adamredwoods
06-27-2007, 05:58 PM
Did someone already mention this for choosing monitors?

http://flatpanels.dk

click on the search and type in your manufacturer (dell, samsung, etc). Find the model you are thinking about.

ips = great, lots of color, most expensive, esp. as-ips
pva = good, lots of color, the more recent ones are great (and pricey)
tn = missing full color gamut, but fastest and cheapest

8ms = time change usually from gray-to-gray (g2g) which means it'll be slower than that for color changes. lower the better, reduces ghosting.


That's flatpanels in a nutshell.
//Adam

Lamont
06-28-2007, 11:58 PM
I got the Dell 2407 and coming from the 20", it's much better. One of the best monitors since my Mitsu 19" CRT.

Lewis
06-29-2007, 01:38 AM
Mine 24" DELL come yesterday to my work desk and after 5-6 hours of working i can tell you that I'm pretty much satisfied. Not great as my 30" DELL but since it's half price of 30" version it's good for money. I don't see any banding issues but i cna't comment on games since i don't play games for last 5-6 years so i don't care about that :).

byte_fx
07-03-2007, 12:48 PM
I bought a 24" Samsung first.

Looked ok until I fired up LW and some video editing apps.

It then had some banding at top and bottom.

Exchanged it. Still same problem.

Was going to buy the Dell 24 but it's still iffy on getting the A04 version as Dell is reportedly still shipping earlier revs as well. The only way to know which version is in the box is by looking at the label on the back of the actual monitor.

By that time a friend had bought an A04 Dell - still had problems with inputs not working and ghosting even after being exchaged twice.

He then bought the BenQ 24 incher - no contest. The BenQ blows the Dell apart in side by comparison in LW, Maya, Premier and Studio Pro.

And it's better on dv as well.

So I bought one and am very pleased with it.

Ran Spyder2 cal on it - only thing that needed changing was lowering brightness one notch.

I now use one on each dual boot Mac - the Samsung is relegated to the PC Xeon render box simply because I couldn't get a refund.

byte_fx

Stooch
07-03-2007, 01:01 PM
He then bought the BenQ 24 incher - no contest. The BenQ blows the Dell apart in side by comparison in LW, Maya, Premier and Studio Pro.

And it's better on dv as well.

byte_fx

umm. just a bit of an FYI. Benq builds the WFP series of dell monitors. so your opinion is a bit suspect about "blowing stuff out of the water".

dell is used by all the pros ive seen around here. there are very comparable monitors out there, i wont argue that, just be careful about making evaluations like that unless you can back up your assertions with observable proof.

Stooch
07-03-2007, 01:15 PM
and a samsung vs dell comparison

http://www.behardware.com/articles/629-1/24-inches-the-dell-2407wfp-vs-the-samsung-244t.html

oDDity
07-03-2007, 01:23 PM
Too late now anyway, I've already ordered a dell. Got a good price on one 399.

byte_fx
07-03-2007, 01:53 PM
Maybe the diference is in Dell's firmware.

It's gone thru several revs w/o fixing all the problems.

It's getting closer but the BenQ is already there.

Having seen both the Dell 2407 and BenQ side by side on both the same system and different identical systems owned by my friend the difference is noticeable in favor of the BenQ.

Primarily in ghosting.

How's that for an observation?

Also - I learned a long time ago that just because a lot of people do something a certain way or think a certain way doesn't inherently make it any better. Or correct for anyone else.

Unless they are, perhaps, lemmings.

Not saying anyone is - but it seems to me the world is losing those that think for themselves.

As to the 'pro' - since v 4 I've made either all or a substantial part of my income in 3D.

I don't move in the 3D circle very much simply becacuse it so Hollywood - an entity I find boring.

But I do have a sufficient number of steady clients to keep me busy and still be able to pick and choose which customers I work with and on which projects.

It works well for me.

byte_fx

Stooch
07-03-2007, 02:53 PM
no one is questioning your pro ness. also nothing to do with being a lemming. just the fact that the product has proven itself many times over for many discerning buyers in the industruy. you can choose whatever you want, and if you want to do so just to be unique, then have at it. just saying that there is no way the benq will blow the dell "out of the water" since its t he same components being wrapped in a different shell. so whatever you saw is probably in your head or a calibration issue.

bluerider
07-03-2007, 03:15 PM
I want a 22-24" widescreen one around the 400-500 range.
I'm wary of TFT's, most of the ones I've seen in shops didn't look very good compared to my old cheapo CRT, but I suppose the technology has been getting better and cheaper over the years, so surely you can get one with as good a quality as a CRT for a reasonable price these days?
The problem is buying them over the internet, so you don't really know what you're getting.

How did you stick the 17 inch monitor for so long, any longer and its Mr. Magoo.

oDDity
07-03-2007, 04:10 PM
I have no problems with it, you'll not believe this, but I run the refresh rate down at 65 in order to get 1280 res9lution. :D
Still, I never have any problems staring at it all day, I've never been prone to headaches or eye strain.

RedBull
07-03-2007, 04:12 PM
The Dell 24" is a good choice, i'm sure you will be happy with it.....
Remember to check if it's a S-IPS or PVA version of the A04.

The SVideo/Component/Composite ports are useless, and the inbuilt Genesis interlacer controller chip is the worst. The SD Card reader doesn't work on High Speed SD cards, a lot of the on screen controls as basic, and no color temp controls. Some modes not available when you want it.. You cannot do PIP of DVI/VGA only SVideo or DVI etc... And it only covers 72% NTSC color. Only does 60hz not 50 or 75hz

It's a shame the panel (HN208L6) was just so damn good that i didn't care about those negatives...

If you get the HN213 model it's using the Samsung PVA found in both the BenQ and Samsung 24" if you get the 208L6 it uses the 24" S-IPS (or H-IPS)
model which is a little better and NEC and LG use that panel.

Both are fairly good, considering the price of the Dell lately ($200 cheaper than when i bought a month back) bargain.

byte_fx
07-03-2007, 05:59 PM
I didn't pick the BenQ to be unique but because it has noticeably less ghosting than the Dell. Dell will probably fix this in later firmware revs but at the present I found it diffucult to differentiate between wanted (rendered) motion blur and induced (from ghosting) motion blur.

The majority of any project, including testing motion blur, is done on the lcds. Once it's where it seems right it is then checked on a calibrated crt as verification. Color, contrast and blur are among the items checked. So the closer I get using the lcds the better everything goes.

Also - the problem the Dell still has with some inputs was considered. Where a lot of folks listen to music while they work I usually have an all news cable channel on. The Dell didn't recogonize the converter signal.

I was all set to buy a Dell before I found the BenQ - and I probably would have been happy with it. But after experiencing the differences - nope.

But that isn't to say the Dell is bad monitor. For many people it is a great top choice. It all depends their priorities.

byte_fx

oDDity
07-05-2007, 07:08 AM
Got my dell. No dead pixels and no banding issues that I can see. I tried it in different modes and played a few dark games and can't see any problems. I'm happy with the contrast ratio in a game like Thief as well.
I've noticed how much more obvious aliasing and noise is in my renders now than on the old CRT.
Also, my eyes are giving me an optical illusion of a concave monitor surface, being used to compensating the CRT from convex to flat.
One thing I notice is that reds seem too much, I adjusted the red down a bit, but I suppose I need to invest in spyder or something to do it properly. No good me seeing lighter reds when everyone else is seeing them as saturated.
It's massive though, it makes my old 17" look like a gameboy. I know some of you guys have up to 30" displays though, which must be like sitting in a cinema.

Andyjaggy
07-05-2007, 07:31 AM
The spyder is a pretty good investment. I've definately noticed an improvement in color accuracy since I got one. You still have issues with consistency across the board though, it seems by default most LCD's ship with there brightness way to high, so if your monitor is calibrated correctly half the people are seeing your stuff too bright.

oDDity
07-05-2007, 07:47 AM
One thing I am noticing are flashing blue pixels on certain images. They're not dead pixels though because they follow the image if I move it around, and don't appear on my desktop for example. Could be a display driver issue or a loose connection maybe.

Bog
07-05-2007, 08:11 AM
Another vote for Dell panels here. They're actually calibratable, unlike a lot of the cheapies. I've had a Samsung Synchmaster 193T for years'n'years, and that also took a calibration and lasted pretty well.

It's always buying as high quality display surface as you can afford - a cheapie second monitor's OK to just chunk your panels onto to free up real-estate, mind.

Stooch
07-05-2007, 06:17 PM
good choice odd. i knew you would be happy with your purchase. now save up for a second one ;)

if you want to see banding, you need to look at a very subtle blue gradient. like the one on my site, i can see visible banding on my dell and im curious if you can see it as well. it doesnt really bother me though. i suppose i can even tun esome of that out with a calibration.

StereoMike
07-05-2007, 08:00 PM
Well done Oddy, you deserved something better than a 17" CRT.
My 2405 (PVA) shows a slight banding, on the 2001 (also Dell, but S-IPS) I can't see any. Both aren't calibrated.
btw, I have to buy a huey or a spyder this month, any advice which to buy?

mike

byte_fx
07-05-2007, 08:14 PM
Most seem to use either spyder2 pro or colorvision.

Not sure about colorvision but the spyder works well in both osx 10.3.9 or greater and windows if that's a consideration.

byte_fx

Sekhar
07-05-2007, 08:44 PM
I use Spyder2PRO and am quite happy with it (I use it with NEC FP2141 CRT). One thing to keep in mind is the OS compatibility. E.g., when I bought it, not all the alternatives to Spyder had support for Vista 64bit.

BTW, ColorVision is the company that makes Spyder (http://www.colorvision.ch/products/prod_spyder2suite.php).

byte_fx
07-05-2007, 09:53 PM
hmm ....

In ancient times there used to a colorvision calbrator that was called 'colorvision somehing or other' so when I saw 'colorvision' referenced I thought it was refering to that to differentiate vetween it and the spyder.

Never owned one.

I use the s2pro; don't know if it's compatible with Vista as that will never consern me.

Well - maybe it will if MS brings out a setvice pack that fixes a bunch of reported problems.

byte_fx

StereoMike
07-05-2007, 10:07 PM
Does the s2pro support Win x64? I'd rather buy a mac than getting Vista near my home.

mike

byte_fx
07-06-2007, 12:38 AM
just took a peak at the web page - didn't see anything regarding 64 bit pro or con.

my xeon pc is 32 bit on the windows side - the extra ram is for linux.

far as buying a mac goes - i'm not a fanboy but the mac pros are a great buy. fast, well built, great price and dual (even triple) os capable. these days that versatility comes in handy.

os x not fully 64 bit yet and who knows when a 64 bit mac version will appear but several people have installed xp 64 (and linux) on them.

byte_fx

Sekhar
07-06-2007, 12:54 AM
Yes, Spyder does 64 bit for Vista and XP - that was a key reason why I bought it myself (I have Vista 64 bit). See their download page (http://support.colorvision.ch/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=41&nav=0).

oDDity
07-06-2007, 01:50 AM
good choice odd. i knew you would be happy with your purchase. now save up for a second one ;)

if you want to see banding, you need to look at a very subtle blue gradient. like the one on my site, i can see visible banding on my dell and im curious if you can see it as well. it doesnt really bother me though. i suppose i can even tun esome of that out with a calibration.

I can see banding on your site background, but maybe that's just because of web colours or compression or the way the browser displays it or something. I've been making gradients in PS and can't see any banding.
I am happy with my purchase, but only from a position of ignorance, since I've haven't had a chance to test the BenQ ;)

mattclary
07-06-2007, 08:23 AM
I am happy with my purchase, but only from a position of ignorance, since I've haven't had a chance to test the BenQ ;)

Ignorance is bliss, my friend! I have a rule of never looking for dead or stuck pixels on an LCD. Figure if I don't notice it, I'll be happy. I think I've just been lucky and never had any, but I refuse to verify it. ;)

oDDity
07-06-2007, 10:16 AM
I'm still a lot better off regardless of which 24" is slightly better than the other. Compared to my old monitor they're all great. I was looking at my old renders and they look a lot sharper and more vibrant now, the Milkmaid render particularly looks a lot better on the Dell.