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View Full Version : who made the shaman & soldier models in lw[8]?



mkiii
06-23-2007, 02:43 AM
As the heading suggests. I'm trying to find out who the original author of these models is. They are on the LW[8] content CD, and the Shaman was used in ages ago for the LW challenge where it had to be textured using nothing but shaders etc.

I ask, because I see it & a few other objects for sale on Turbosquid in Maya format.

I always thought that these particular objects were made by Newtek.

mkiii
06-23-2007, 04:13 AM
That's what I thought too. The other models (a goofy bird) and a toony soldier are others.

I would post the thread on the TS forums relating to this, but it is in a private sellers area, and not available for public viewing.

If the original owners could PM or msn me, I'll pass on that info to the Turbosquid secret state police. :thumbsup:

WilliamVaughan
06-23-2007, 09:17 AM
He's got lots of other peoples models on there:
http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm/FuseAction/ProcessSmartSearch/istIncAuthor/shrikrupamodels/blAuthorExact/y

Anyone a member there that can report it?

mkiii
06-23-2007, 09:37 AM
Well I am of course. (see your pm).

I did look for the rest of the stuff, but the Lightwave objects were the only ones I could prove.

There are other people on the TS forums who have made note of the other objects that look like they might be from the DeEspona catalogue.

If anyone spots anything else on there that belongs to them, you can get TS to take it down by emailing them directly with some sort of proof such as screenshots.

If you have a TS account (one is easily made) - then you can contact them via their Support page - which raises a support ticket, and in theory can't be ignored.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 10:39 AM
they could be copies, as in he liked the design and built a copy by using the model/pik of the models as a reference/template so they could actually be his work in much the same way as someone using reference piks to make a car as an example

...but..they look to be a file conversion by the fbx and ma file types where he exported the max or lw model as an fbx and imported it in maya via fbx then saved as a maya ma file...looks rather supicious in that regard...but would only be proven with a wireframe view...if they match up exactly point for point then it's stolen...if the poly flow is different then he may have made them from a reference pik...you'd need to get your hands on a file to ''see''.

the elephant seems THE most supicious as the texture look exactly like the one in my 9 cdrom collection with that very same elephant
..i'd say report it and let them investigate

cresshead
06-23-2007, 11:20 AM
i'm not defending!...just 'explaining' that you can freely buy a model of say a cars like this

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_5_9_2003_13_28_34/f1ga7.jpg4983D83F-74D8-4223-A2821E06580F10CF.jpgLarge.jpg

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_11_21_2003_14_23_52/Sub.jpg4c060635-0a83-48ac-9d50-1d3dc119d80b.jpgLarge.jpg

or buildings like these

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_2007_05_24__16_51_13/A.jpg5f7b3ddf-13e7-403e-b93d-7454a747609aLarge.jpg

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_9_14_2004_15_44_09/07Bridge.jpgbc5a35d3-1ac6-4752-aa51-4d22824a3102Large.jpg

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_2007_05_27__03_28_27/StatLib_Harware_01.jpgf82e2bff-9d29-45ea-9884-4d4fb3838a8bLarge.jpg

or planes

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_4_3_2005_16_01_00/747-AF1-1.jpgfff3cf19-336e-4aa9-a98e-1c628c34a8bdLarge.jpg

characters

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_4_12_2006_16_16_49/arnie_thumbnail01.jpgd619489d-a338-4edb-a8b7-0eed0e2c8f16Large.jpg

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_7_1_2004_14_45_59/Arnold_4.jpgac522152-75a1-42c6-9baf-3d0d6f82f1d6Large.jpg

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_5_26_2004_15_19_18/mentalray1.jpgd0c62185-2bf2-4660-923d-6b8057c372bfLarge.jpg

http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_12_22_2006_15_47_47/superhero-1.jpg87288949-85eb-467e-8499-492c8b78dc03Large.jpg

now the people who model these don't own the copyright to the buildings or car designs....but then they're not purporting to be 'bmw or owners of the statue of liberty]

cresshead
06-23-2007, 11:29 AM
also if you call your elvis, micheal jackson character look alike 'rock star' and do not use the name of say ''elvis'' to promote your model then there's not much anyone can do about it.

or politicians....

http://www.its-ming.com/2000/image2000/caricature/bush_w.jpg

http://www.its-ming.com/images/modelcharacter/tyson1.jpg

http://www.its-ming.com/images/characterstich/brucelee.jpg

http://www.its-ming.com/2000/image2000/caricature/comedian.jpg

http://www.its-ming.com/2000/image2000/caricature/jack.jpg

not to forget proton's dr zues model....

cresshead
06-23-2007, 11:43 AM
additional note on trademarks [ TM ]
if you trademark a product you HAVE to defend it...if people go out and misuse your trademark and you don't take them to book or court then you'll lose the right to have that item/product tradmarked....that's what you get sitting next to a lawyer for a year!

cresshead
06-23-2007, 11:46 AM
in a very recent case sony was complained at for using the exterior/interior of a church in u.k. in one of their games...not because of any copyright but for having a running gun battle inside the virtual house of god...all the church of england got was a delayed and muted 'sorry'....no cash...no cease an desist and NO pulling of the game from sale.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 01:01 PM
re:- copyright rules and 3d art

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=494572&page=1&pp=15

Extent
06-23-2007, 03:39 PM
To keep on track with the OP, Trademark doesn't apply at all, this would purely be a copyright issue.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html#derivative/

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a “new work” or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes.

Distributing a copy of a work (object) violates Copyright, regardless of how that copy was made. Even if they used the original as a BG image and traced over it, or manually created every point in the new object, if it is not substantially enough different to be considered a "new work" it infringes on the original copyright.

Just like you could not take a book, type it up yourself, and then begin printing copies of it. Even if you printed it in a different font.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 04:13 PM
interesting...

been reading thru that 9 page thread and from what's bee written there i've gathered this as my take on it...

1. if you sell less than 200 units it falls under ''one-offs'' and so slips under their lawyers radar for followup on any legal prceedings ''if'' they think they have a case.
2.if you pull logo's and tradmarks off your model your in much better shape...so a ford car WITHOUT the ford logo badge is a good idea...just make a 'bord' logo instead...remember the 'fony' headphones in the george micheal music video a while back..
3.if you change the design slightly so it's not s 100% copy...it's NOT a copy anymore such as a car...if you add different tail fins and wheel hubs and colurs scheme...or a existing 2000 poly model that you ''re create'' and is now a 1000 poly model has numerically 1000 differences...sounds like ''legal stuff to me''
but really if your siluette or form is different enough then i think it's got past that possible block...this would be a judgment call really...
4. if you name your creation of say 'arnie' actor or bodybuilder rather than his full REAL name your in much better shape too.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 04:18 PM
btw this is really pertaining to making models of realworld items than the actual topic of that chap copy/pasting someone eless model over on turbosquid so sorry for dragging this somewhat off topic but seems to be a good idea whilst we're trying to see if that chap did in fact nick the models and 'how' anyone could go about proving it.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 04:22 PM
you could say 'the incredibles' movie was a copy of the fantastic 4 comic story/characters...it's all about 'degree' 'depth' and 'scope' of the copy....i think pixar made enough changes to not get caught up in legal issues.

mkiii
06-23-2007, 04:45 PM
We are definately getting Ot here. This is a theft of copyrighted materials. Nothing more or less.

Focus guys.

If anyone has any sort of proof, that anything on turbosquid is stolen. And that includes models that are in the public domain & even textures.

LET THEM KNOW

I want TS to be clean of thieves, so I can make more money. That's the bottom line. Of course, I also get pissed off when I see thieves profiting from the generosity of others... Proton for example.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 05:06 PM
just digging out the elephant model....will post my screengrab in a similar angle to that of his on Tsquid...hang on a sec...

cresshead
06-23-2007, 05:21 PM
yup in my opinion the guy's a darn thief!

see my images here..loaded up the elephant model from my 9 cdrom collection and made similar camera angles to his ones he did in maya....mine of course are the bought, legit models from the 9 cdrom 3dsmax lib of models

-de espnsa collection-

cresshead
06-23-2007, 05:33 PM
i've put a support ticket in on the elephant model saying it looks to be stolen unless that seller actually works for de esponsa....which i doubt.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 05:37 PM
i think proton and others should do similar things and line up their models to his previews then they or i can send in a support ticket and get the guy banned...actually just doing the elephant shuld be enough to ban him for life....yup ban's are life long [i'm a moderator on the turbosquid forums btw...]

cresshead
06-23-2007, 05:56 PM
btw it's a really nice model...made in max 2.5 [V old!] with their metareyes modeling plugin i believe

http://www.cresshead.com/wip_wait/ele.jpg

mkiii
06-23-2007, 06:01 PM
I put another one in too.

As i said, I have already put one in for the Shaman, Bird, & Soldier.

This is just one guy.... there are many more, but we can take em down one by one.

TS is sometimes slow to respond tho'.

cresshead
06-23-2007, 06:13 PM
let me know if you spot anymore either on the forum or by PM and i'll do what i can regrads 3dsmax, xsi, lw, maya copied/stolen models etc we'll clean up the place and keep it as legit as possible.

i prefer to see if i have the model in my lib and get some evidence sorted to make it simple as poss for the turbo squid people to investigate into it as that will speed up the proccess.


t squid are pretty good on responding from my dealings...you may have to wait till monday..i put my ticket in and high but not immediate...got a confirm email back [auto response i think]

add their product id, seller name, web link and any evidence..this speeds up the proccess.

cresshead
06-25-2007, 12:06 PM
just recieved an email from turbosquid, they are curently investigating..was not a auto response, was from a support chap.

cresshead
06-25-2007, 12:16 PM
please note that the elephant model i put a support ticket into about regarding it being stolen has been pulled from sale by that vendor...i note that the lightwave models which started all this remain...i thought that someone put in a support ticket for these...if so they should have been pulled by now...unless the person who sent in the support ticket did not send any evedence to back up their claim?...in which case it will take much longer for the investigation to determine who owns what....

you must do 'your bit' by helping the support team come to a swift conclusion and not just let them investigate and hunt down all the evidence themselves as this takes time.

cresshead
06-25-2007, 12:30 PM
i don't think you have all the info...

when they are investigating a product they pull it....they have not as yet come to a judgement on the article but in the meantime they take it off sale...to say turbosquid are pathetic is a bit harsh...they guy hasn't been proved ''guilty'' as yet but seeing as turbosquid have some evidence from me to back up my claim they it's prudent of them to pull the model in the meantime.

which then brings me to the lightwave proton models...did anyone actually put a claim in?

if so did they send evidence in also?

without evidence it's just 'someone shouting'....and makes for a long winded proccess of the team gathering all the evidence their end
if you want to protect your models you have to help...abitlike when the police come round to investigate a stolen item...you give them
abit of help to make the investigation go quickly....

cresshead
06-25-2007, 12:39 PM
if the vendor is found to be guilty of copying/selling a model that he doesn't own then he's banned....currently he's 'under investigation' for one model by the looks of it.

also note the elephant is the property of de esponsa who is a current turbosquid vendor soit's easy to contact them and also look thru their
catalogue of models to match up the said model

with proton not having his model for sale and proton himself not putting in a complaint then it's going to slow down any investigation for his models.

Elmar Moelzer
06-25-2007, 02:37 PM
Someone is selling the MD900 Explorer Helicopter and the Airbus A330 that I made for the LW8.0 content for 195 USD and 180 USD.

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327487

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327492

I mean I gave my stuff to the LW content yes and I am happy if people use it for whatever projects, even better if they make money with it, but I am not sure whether the license agreement for the LW8.0- content contained the license to sell the models on Turbosquid or elsewhere.
Maybe someone from NT can shed some light on this?

On a sidenote: whoever put those models up there, should get himself some skills. I made those within a day each and while they were not bad for their time, they definitely are not godsend, which is why I think they are completely overpriced too.
CU
Elmar

cresshead
06-25-2007, 07:44 PM
have you gathered evidence and posted a support ticket to investigate that seller?

the seller in question has nr enough nothing on his sales technique...just a single pik, no descriptions, no details, no other piks and only available in lwo formats...

best way to proceed with this is if your not a member would be to send over your mesh model in the investigation of this seller and ask them to load up the seller's model and see how they compare as turbosquid team can access all models and have in the past also repaired ropey models that my clients had bought for instance.

it's best that the person involved is the one in the communication chain if at all possible as if i proceed with this i have nr no knowledge of said models and liecences that you put together with newtek for example.

xtrm3d
06-26-2007, 02:28 PM
this little bastard .. is selling my soldier .. (was on the lw content + acs4 sample )
well i dont have time nor the energy to get in touch with turbo squid to get this issue resolved .. i would just stop to give away free models for eduction purpose ...
the action of these little f**ks .. make people think twice about giving stuff aways :-(

oDDity
06-27-2007, 02:52 AM
You can ban them, but they'll only sign up again and put the same models up. The site is too big to properly filter every user and every model, and of course they don't really care as long as they get their (very large) cut.
They have actually been making a lot of profit from the numerous plagiarised models that have been sold so far, what is being talked about here is only the tip of an iceberg.
Are they going to refund that money to the rightful owners of the respective works, when it's been proven?
Are they f**k.

cresshead
07-05-2007, 08:38 AM
sorry didn't realise YOU have insider information on turbosquid, are you their accountant?

you'll also see most artist can't be a**ed to follow up and help turbosquid police their content
...tough toe nails then..stop moaning about it if you don't want to DO anything to help stamp it out.

colkai
07-05-2007, 08:41 AM
One thing I've noticed about the boom of 3D, this sort of thing is on the rise. They feel that there is so much stuff out there now, they can "hide" it.

Of course, they make the fatal mistake of assuming the 3D community isn't just that and word gets around pretty quickly.

xtrm3d
07-05-2007, 09:31 AM
you'll also see most artist can't be a**ed to follow up and help turbosquid police their content
...tough toe nails then..stop moaning about it if you don't want to DO anything to help stamp it out.

i sent a couple of mail to the different contact adress from turbosquid ..
never got any reply :thumbsdow

for me it seem that they dont really care .. as long that the content generate income ..

cresshead
07-05-2007, 09:32 AM
just to add [i did on anotyher thread] this chap is now banned from turbosquid for life who stole the afore mentioned models in this thread.

as for signing up and doining it again well, don't think so as you have to fill out a w8ben tax form..so it's YOU and no an email address that signs up for turbosquid.

xtrm3d
07-05-2007, 09:40 AM
at least look like they are doing something :-)
thx for the update ...
but ... how do you know it ? are you related to them ?

cresshead
07-05-2007, 09:52 AM
i'm a moderator on the max forum on turbosquid and have delt with issues like this before.

Chuck
07-05-2007, 12:10 PM
Someone is selling the MD900 Explorer Helicopter and the Airbus A330 that I made for the LW8.0 content for 195 USD and 180 USD.

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327487

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327492

I mean I gave my stuff to the LW content yes and I am happy if people use it for whatever projects, even better if they make money with it, but I am not sure whether the license agreement for the LW8.0- content contained the license to sell the models on Turbosquid or elsewhere.
Maybe someone from NT can shed some light on this?

On a sidenote: whoever put those models up there, should get himself some skills. I made those within a day each and while they were not bad for their time, they definitely are not godsend, which is why I think they are completely overpriced too.
CU
Elmar

We have a EULA for the content that specifies that LightWave owners cannot resell the content. Most of the content can be used as is in a commercial animation project, specified content can only be used in commercial projects with written permission of the author.

I saw this pretty late, and it sounds like this fellow is taken care of, but in future if folks could report any sightings of people trying to resell LightWave content here and then report the post to Moderators with a note that it concerns violation of NewTek content copyrights, our marketing staff can get right on it.

Another option is to email security (at) newtek (dot) com.

Thanks!

Chuck

xtrm3d
07-05-2007, 12:13 PM
""i'm a moderator on the max forum on turbosquid and have delt with issues like this before.""

and what is turbosquid making with the money generated out of these asset ?
i understand , that it would be really hard .. to find out and pay the original author ..
but they should at least use the money to make a donation to a caritative institution

Elmar Moelzer
07-05-2007, 10:14 PM
Hey Chuck!
Thanks for the reply.
Well, my two models are still up there it seems (different user).

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327487
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327492

Just to let you guys know.
CU
Elmar

cresshead
07-05-2007, 10:27 PM
""i'm a moderator on the max forum on turbosquid and have delt with issues like this before.""

and what is turbosquid making with the money generated out of these asset ?
i understand , that it would be really hard .. to find out and pay the original author ..
but they should at least use the money to make a donation to a caritative institution

ask turbosquid...i'm not in their employ..just a fellow turobosquid user:thumbsup:

re Elmar Moelzer's assests...you need to get in contact with turbosquid if you want action taken and help them help you by providing some evidence thay can use in their investigation.

i'd also point out that turbosquid is not the only 3d assest sales website on the planet...you may find your stuff for sale all over the place..earth doesn't have 100% honest people..never has

...best thing is the power of good people on forums discovering such things and pointing them out, you have to understand mind you that the true owners are the people to follow up and
seek a resolution if at all possible due to questions that may need to be asked
from such websites staff...the reason i submitted a support ticket about
the elephant is that i HAVE that model on a cdrom collection i bought and so could with good confidence create evidence to submit along with the support mail to turbosquid.

Elmar Moelzer
07-05-2007, 10:37 PM
Well, that would be NewTeks job then, as they are the copyright holders, not me.
CU
Elmar

archijam
07-06-2007, 01:59 AM
this little bastard .. is selling my soldier .. (was on the lw content + acs4 sample )
well i dont have time nor the energy to get in touch with turbo squid to get this issue resolved .. i would just stop to give away free models for eduction purpose ...
the action of these little f**ks .. make people think twice about giving stuff aways :-(

Great website btw, lovelly models.

You don't deserve this cr*p.

In these cases it's most likely only the community that is going to police this .. shall we draw up a roster and do nightwatch?

j.

Chuck
07-06-2007, 02:00 PM
Hey Chuck!
Thanks for the reply.
Well, my two models are still up there it seems (different user).

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327487
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/327492

Just to let you guys know.
CU
Elmar


Thanks! I sent the links along to the appropriate staff.

Chuck
07-06-2007, 03:06 PM
Thanks! I sent the links along to the appropriate staff.

And now they are no longer working, so I guess Turbosquid has been contacted and is looking into this.

cresshead
07-06-2007, 03:07 PM
good news, thanks for the update chuck.

mkiii
08-17-2007, 10:37 AM
Just for general information. Turbosquid has changed their policy on taking down models since we users & vendors have started bitching about the fact that thieves are ruining THEIR reputation.

In brief, they previously needed a takedown notice from the real owner & proof of ownership to do anything. They will now take a model (or vendor) down if anyone can supply evidence of theft, owner or not.

Evidence can be as simple as a screenshot that proves that the vendor has taken the model from elsewhere, a web adress showing it on another site or so on. I sent the screenshots of the Shaman & other stuff from Deep Exploration, clearly showing file dates & position in the Newtek content folders.

Lately they have been removing whole collections that we vendors have reported to them via their support ticket system. (I think you need to register with them to see that).

If anyone here sees a model that they can prove is theirs in some way (having early versions helps) on TS, then feel free to contact me, or post a message on the TS forum clearly stating the case. Trust me, something will be done about it.

BTW. I do not work for T.S. I just sell models on there.

Qexit
10-07-2007, 07:51 AM
btw it's a really nice model...made in max 2.5 [V old!] with their metareyes modeling plugin i believe

http://www.cresshead.com/wip_wait/ele.jpgIt looks like this model has surfaced on another 3D Object selling site, ObjectsLibrary:

http://www.objectslibrary.com/product_info.php?cPath=54_74&products_id=1322

There can't be that many highly detailed African Elephant models created in 3D Max floating around. Anyone else recognise anything on this site ?

cresshead
10-07-2007, 08:13 AM
i've sent an email for them to remove it

thanks for the headds up on this!

mav3rick
10-07-2007, 12:33 PM
this is why i dont like to give out content.......

zapper1998
10-07-2007, 08:22 PM
They should research the models before they put them up on TS..

But that would never happen..

I have given models away, but they are lower quality and no textures applied..

Unless they want to pay full price for them, which is hard to put a price on something that you have worked on for a few months on and off.


Michael

KiloWatkins
10-09-2007, 04:37 AM
Late on this thread and did not read it all, your texture is fabtabulous. An elephant model was also in the LW6.5 SIG02 set I believe.

fwiw