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starbase1
06-18-2007, 07:39 AM
There has been some discussion in a different thread here on the possibilities of having some 'challenges' for lightwave users who hang around these forums.

The overall impression (I think it is fair to say) is to go for a relatively simple challenge, and a more demanding one at the same time. Anyway here are some overview ideas - the plan is to refine what we do within the categories once we have a winner.

Note that you can select more than one option.

Iain
06-18-2007, 07:51 AM
I want the old geezer that dances to win!

starbase1
06-18-2007, 08:23 AM
I want the old geezer that dances to win!

Lionel Blair uses Lightwave?!

sammael
06-18-2007, 09:31 AM
Thanks Nick nice to see this strating to get underway. Place your votes people!

Iain
06-18-2007, 09:58 AM
Lionel Blair uses Lightwave?!


No, no, no, Dick van Dyke!

starbase1
06-18-2007, 10:05 AM
No, no, no, Dick van Dyke!

I thought he was mainly a Poser user? (seriously).

*Pete*
06-18-2007, 11:44 AM
only the 3 last choises would be intresting for me...

I think a challenge should be more than simple modelling of for example a chess piece, the difference between a well modelled and a badly modelled chess piece is at best minimal.

but a challenge to model after a specific theme, or a blueprint/sketch of a more advanced model would be much more intresting and give us way more variation.

a challenge to model a famous statue, or a battleship (like bismark or something) would show/increase the skill to make an advanced model, as close to the original as possible..or perhaps an image of the viking heaven/city of Valhalla, that would allow also for own artistic intrepre..argh..difficult words...vision, of something that doesnt exist....all entries would still be about the same theme.

naturally..a chess piece can still have incredibly detailed king or queen in it, some would make a simple pawn with a simple lathe exercise in 2 minutes...but, id prefer a challenge that will take atleast a day or two to finish...such as the battleship bismark for example..its not difficult, not even for newbies, but there are so many details in it that for newbies and pros alike, it will take some time to get it into a "shape" that reminds the original.


Lighting challenge is also pretty cool idea...usually you learn a lot in them, and its a important skill to learn.

Bog
06-18-2007, 05:45 PM
Advanced modelling here, please. Let's challenge the experienced, and nurture the new.

sammael
06-19-2007, 01:12 AM
I agree Bog.
28 votes! :cursin: surely we have more interested peoples
Bump...

faulknermano
06-19-2007, 01:29 AM
lighting! any fool can model. :D

starbase1
06-19-2007, 01:37 AM
I must say I am surprised at how close it all is... I'd guess that whichever basic and advanced ones we pick in the end, there would be enough people to have a crack at the second most popular...

In the mean time, how about we discuss what subjects would be good, and should go in the vote?

For surfaces, personally I would very much argue in favour of using the 9.2 nodals to do good glass.

But what do you modeling types want to have a crack at?

And I only put the lighting one in for completeness - what would be a good choice for that? (Looking at what gets a lot of discussion round here, maybe lighting a room with natural light?) Or perhaps something with bit more wiggle room, "lit by a glow" maybe?

faulknermano
06-19-2007, 01:54 AM
just random thoughts about lighting:

it can be categorised as indoor / outdoor / both. it can also be further broken down as realistic lighting versus fanatastical or "artistic" lighting. professionally speaking, lighting has a lot to do with compositing, so lighting can also be demonstrated by how well the artist composites a CG element into a live footage. i think this can be a good starting format for any challenge, since slightly more objective than "artistic" senses. a work is judged by how it seamless (or not) it fits in with a real footage.

one problem i see with this is that lighting is obviously closely related to texturing. so there's an overlap there.

Iain
06-19-2007, 02:35 AM
I'm happy to share any files and info on anything I do. Is that the general consensus?

sammael
06-19-2007, 02:45 AM
I think its safe to say that lighting would play a major role in just about any of the options mentioned above.
It would be nice to have a focused lighting challenge though.
Looks like maybe 3 options so far:
1. Model/texture
2. Lighting
3. Surfacing

As far as a lighting challenge what sort of a scene/object would be the subject?
Perhaps a basic generic scene where a few additional objects could be added within limits.
Say a street with a couple of buildings and a set camera angle. One would set the mood of the scene and the visible lights would be added manually by the artist (eg. lamp posts, neons, fluros, spot lights... whatever.)
Also the artist could texture the scene/or not and add things like fog and dof.

sammael
06-19-2007, 02:49 AM
I'm happy to share any files and info on anything I do. Is that the general consensus?
For simple things, sure. For more involved complex work only within reason, for example if I produced something that took 2 months of work possibly not.
Info, no problems with that at all.

starbase1
06-19-2007, 03:12 AM
Glass is hardly challenging in 9.2, dielectric is practically a "make great glass" button. With a HDR probe or a few reflectors it's basically pre-made. Not really a challenge. :)

Well, from what I have seen here it's a 'make GOOD glass button'. I'd hope a challenge could take it up a level.

Nick
(Who studied optics as part of his uni course!)
:D

walfridson
06-19-2007, 03:17 AM
Would love something with dynamics...

*Pete*
06-19-2007, 03:20 AM
Many challenges i have seen ask the competetitor for a "wip" thread where he shows the progress/workflow and general thoughs about what he/she is about to make.

not saying that we need or should have such demands, but those kinds of wip's are generally very informative, for pros and newbies alike.


also, seeing that both advanced and simple options get about the same amount of votes...we could have simple and advanced modelling of the same theme/subject.

example "model F16"

simple: model the exterior of the aircraft, detailed as you can.
advanced: same as on simple, plus a detailed cockpit and/or a detailed pilot.

Exception
06-19-2007, 03:30 AM
Blah. No kittens.

starbase1
06-19-2007, 04:53 AM
also, seeing that both advanced and simple options get about the same amount of votes...we could have simple and advanced modelling of the same theme/subject.



Possible I suppose, but I would have thought we'd get maximum participation if we had topics as different as possible... For example, I'd be tempted to say that the popular areas (for modeling) are characters and cars - but I don't think many are interested in both. So if we had (for example) a car materials challenge for the simple one, and a head modeling challange for the more involved one, we'd be likely to get a lot more people taking part in one.

As for threads - well, some people like to post every small change, others prefer to work until they have something they are proud of. I see no reason to impose riules on people - let them choose to join in a core thread for the challenge, or launch their own...

Nick

starbase1
06-19-2007, 05:43 AM
OK, some suggestions for a possible surfacing challenge to go into the vote:


Nodal glass and similar
Procedural metals
Procedural human skin
Sub Surface Scattering surfaces in general
Photo real Water
Jewelery surfaces (e.g. Gems / Gold)


I think it might help some who are new to LW to provide an option of using a supplied model, particularly if it's something like human skin where a supplied head or hand could be found.

Any more?

Exception
06-19-2007, 05:49 AM
Any more?

Kittens!

http://www.except.nl/overig/uploads/kittens/chubs.jpg

starbase1
06-19-2007, 05:50 AM
Some possibilities for models:


Spaceship (real / from TV, original)
Realistic human head.
Recognisable person
Ear modeling
Stylised / cartoon human head.
Stylised / cartoon character
Fantasy creature / movie monster
Car (real, own design)
Plane (real / own design)
A complete building
Room interior
A weapon


I'm just throwing out ideas for discussion here, trhough personally I find cars deadly dull and boring...

starbase1
06-19-2007, 06:10 AM
Kittens!

OK, lets add road kill as a challenge option...

Exception
06-19-2007, 07:39 AM
OK, lets add road kill as a challenge option...

The kittens hate you.

http://www.except.nl/overig/uploads/kittens/no_means_no.jpg

manholoz
06-19-2007, 08:53 AM
How about dividing the challenge by general Lightwave prowess? So the guy that just bought Lightwave cannot be intimidated by, say, Splinegod.

Iain
06-19-2007, 08:58 AM
How about dividing the challenge by general Lightwave prowess? So the guy that just bought Lightwave cannot be intimidated by, say, Splinegod.

I think the advanced and intermediate challenge categories would take care of that.
You enter whichever version you feel suits your abilities.

starbase1
06-19-2007, 09:51 AM
I think the advanced and intermediate challenge categories would take care of that.
You enter whichever version you feel suits your abilities.

I'd also hope that we are mature enough to encourage newbies - they should have the most to learn, and I for one am also hoping to learn new skills rather than just show off what I can do already...

liquidpope
06-19-2007, 10:06 AM
I voted for a lighting challenge, because that's something I personally need to work on.
But whatever the group decides, count me in.

starbase1
06-19-2007, 10:14 AM
I voted for a lighting challenge, because that's something I personally need to work on.
But whatever the group decides, count me in.

What kind of a lighting challenge would be good? Advanced or basic?

liquidpope
06-19-2007, 11:05 AM
Advanced, of course.
Perhaps a challenge to convey mood would be fun.

manholoz
06-19-2007, 02:46 PM
I'd also hope that we are mature enough to encourage newbies - they should have the most to learn, and I for one am also hoping to learn new skills rather than just show off what I can do already...

My point exactly.

And newbie submissions usually are also quite interesting, as they have not yet settled down to a particular workflow, and being so tend to do things in a very non-traditional and totally inspiring way.

sammael
06-19-2007, 06:54 PM
I'd also hope that we are mature enough to encourage newbies - they should have the most to learn, and I for one am also hoping to learn new skills rather than just show off what I can do already...

The whole point of a challenge, to me is to create something in order to learn off and be inspired by others, it is an ideal way for noobs, intermediate and experienced ppl to improve their skills and learn off others.
I dont think anyone should be reluctant to join in.

Cast your vote Noobs!

liquidpope
06-19-2007, 09:35 PM
Yes, the learning aspect... I think that's why most of us are here.
I know I've learned more here than in any of my books.
I vote to change my original vote.

Since all of the categories are so close in the poll, maybe you should start with the simplest thing, modeling a simple object, and each week add more to it.

Week 1, build a low-poly object.
Week 2, build it better/more high res.
Week 3, simple textures
Week 4, advanced textures
Week 5, lighting
Week 6, rigging/deformation/animation

That will be my final vote. A progression.
That gets all the noobs in with an easy task, and ease them right into more advanced stuff.
And I'm sure we can all learn new things along the way.

sammael
06-19-2007, 09:44 PM
A lot of people seem to be voting for a lighting challenge, any ideas on how this would operate? I made 1 suggestion on the previous page but it would be nice top flesh it out a bit more, what do others think?

sammael
06-19-2007, 09:46 PM
Yes, the learning aspect... I think that's why most of us are here.
I know I've learned more here than in any of my books.
I vote to change my original vote.

Since all of the categories are so close in the poll, maybe you should start with the simplest thing, modeling a simple object, and each week add more to it.

Week 1, build a low-poly object.
Week 2, build it better/more high res.
Week 3, simple textures
Week 4, advanced textures
Week 5, lighting
Week 6, rigging/deformation/animation

That will be my final vote. A progression.
That gets all the noobs in with an easy task, and ease them right into more advanced stuff.
And I'm sure we can all learn new things along the way.

I think all of these things would be covered in an advanced modeling texturing type challenge, we would just have to ensure that the duration was long enough to cover all the bases, say 3 months.

sammael
06-19-2007, 09:49 PM
Possibly a good option would be an environment challenge, it could be alien or real with the focus being on modeling, texturing and lighting.

starbase1
06-20-2007, 12:40 AM
OK lighting guys - we need some options for the poll on exactly what the lighting challenge would be - what do you want to do?

sammael
06-20-2007, 12:49 AM
So far only 50 votes, maybe we should wait.

sammael
06-20-2007, 12:56 AM
Besides less than half of people voted for specific lighting. Overall there are many more votes in the model/texture department. How about a new poll with a couple of diferent lighting options and some of the more popular model surface options.
Then we can establish 1 lighting challenge and another one in the model/texture department.

ANS
06-20-2007, 02:33 AM
too much talk. someone must make decision, and don't ask about every small detail. For me, every challenge is ok.

Stooch
06-20-2007, 03:46 AM
I didnt vote because my choice is not on there. (its fuzzy)

toby
06-20-2007, 06:22 PM
Why not have a 3-stage challenge, modeling/surfacing/lighting, the winning model goes on to surfacing, that winning model goes on to lighting - whoever wants can participate at any stage.

How about something like a prisoner sitting in a cell (just watched some more BSG) - some hard-surface modeling, some organic, just a few details to model in the room so it can be done well without taking 3 months, lots of grunge texturing opportunity, simple lighting since there's only 1 or 2 sources, but you can still get creative and moody, and it's not too easy like exterior lighting. The prisoner could be rigged and animated for a later challenge.

Stooch
06-20-2007, 07:42 PM
i rike that idea. as long as there is a cat in there somewhere.

sammael
06-20-2007, 11:34 PM
How about we just go with
1 - Modelling challenge for advanced object
2 - Lighting challenge

Now we just have to flesh out ideas.
Heres my take
1 - character could be bipedal or quadraped, can be made up or real (eg: human, creature, cat :)) Winner would be judged on overall best modeling & texturing.
2 - Lighting a pre modeled scene can be textured/or not and lit to convey a specific mood and time of day or night. Modeled lights can be added.
For example an alley way entrance with buildings on both sides, its dawn on a foggy morning. Someone would need to donate the objects and scene file.

Iain
06-21-2007, 02:24 AM
Re a lighting challenge, a lot of people (not just on this thread) seem curious about interior lighting. I'd be happy to come up with a model for a challenge.

It could be kept simple with the option to add props and textures.

sammael
06-21-2007, 03:35 AM
Alright I started a new poll based on the 2 most popular options.
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70192

*Pete*
06-21-2007, 04:27 AM
i rike that idea. as long as there is a cat in there somewhere.

every winner, second place and third place gets a kitten as a price!!